First off I'd like to say, I've been in this since the second day of Open Beta, so bugs and frustration don't really enter into my concerns here. Bugs, frustrations, even though my patience is wearing thin with downtime, these aren't enough to give me serious pause.
However, the Crystalline Catastrophe 'fixes' are the first time I've really been able to gauge how Cryptic reacts to a developing situation in game, and I've got to say, it really makes me unhappy-- and it ties together with a lot of what I've seen in-game to cast Cryptic in a very bad light. I don't have much time, gotta head out for the evening, but I'll try to put it as coherently as I can.
I'm beginning to believe Cryptic doesn't really care about the experience newer players will encounter in-game.
As early as the handling of the "Where's Sulu?" thing, Cryptic has not only ignored how ugly the mood has been towards players with questions, it seems like they've actually encouraged it. All the 'right behind you' jokes that not only don't acknowledge that almost no information was given in the original text of the mission, but conveniently ignore that people had been wandering around and around the station trying to find him, so he was obviously NOT behind them when they asked. And when this attempt at humour spawned hundreds of mocking 'Where's Sulu?' questions, which fostered even MORE hostility, it only got worse for people with genuine questions, but nowhere on the forums or in the game, at least that I ran across, did anybody say anything to encourage a better attitude towards helping others. The NPCs talking about him was a good gesture, it works out for some people. The jokes demolish a lot of the progress we'd otherwise see, because they perpetuate the problem even after a lot's been done to try to solve it.
Now, with the Entity situation, Cryptic has created a situation where uninformed players can make an enemy encounter infinite. So can the same people who were making the 'Where's Sulu?' jokes right alongside them-- griefers who enjoy making other people frustrated and upset. Soon after the change I completed this action with very little trouble, with about half of the people in the zone uninformed. Today, with my Valentine in tow, it was impossible to get the thing down below 60 percent. I really don't think that was an accident, but even if it was-- the people who showed up to spawn 3 minefields at a time and were continuing to do so despite private messages urging them to stop can't be called uninformed. The same situation is created-- escalating ugliness towards people who are uninformed, despite the fact that there are plenty of people intentionally creating this situation who are completely informed, in some cases repeatedly warned. The Zone chat is full of people screeching at each other, putting each other down, and telling each other to get out of the game. And what really concerns me is that Cryptic doesn't even seem to be monitoring the result of their changes.
I'm really becoming pessimistic about Cryptic's attention to logistics, information, and detail
The design of this game is all over the place, it's a schizophrenic mess in places. Conflicting instructions in quests, missing information, some instructions come with sectors and others with vague references to position and some with nothing at all to let you know where to go. Head to the ice mining station isn't exactly helpful if you're nowhere near the sector block and have never been there, which is a distinct possibility in this game. And because the game is so inconsistant, people who haven't encountered a mission directly feel perfectly justified treating confused people like idiots who don't read-- except, there's often nothing in the mission text TO read that would help them. The missions aren't impossible to figure out, I haven't found myself having to ask a question yet-- sometimes because some other poor soul had to ask it while I was passing through. It just makes for a very hostile and frustrating environment when people are already frustrated and confused.
The Entity makes this painfully, abundantly clear-- nothing in the instructions gives anyone even a remote clue as to what needs to be done to kill it, what must not be done, or even how to find it. There are ways in place to find it, the NPC ship that can help you, none of which is mentioned. TRIBBLE YYY is going, that's good, but, it's not enough, not by far. The entire approach a player should take in this encounter changed, but nothing in the information available to the player changed.
The Library computer takes an unnecessary number of clicks to let you know that it's not actually very helpful at all, and instead of adding prominent, easy-to-find entries to the LIbrary, Cryptic added them to the Bug Reports section-- a gesture which communicates, at least to me, that they just don't want to be bothered with these issues.
It's all adding up to a very unhappy picture
I'm getting the impression, from this, from some of the ways the forums are handled, and from the overall design of this game that Cryptic is a very slapdash, snarky bunch of people who frankly couldn't be bothered with whether or not they foster ugliness and hostility towards 'weak' players, who can't be bothered to help unless a problem becomes inconvenient for them, and who will lash out with over-reaction when something triggers their pique.
I don't want the game to be easier-- I was fine with the difficulty at the beginning of Beta though I thought the scaling math was a little wiggy with teams, and I'm fine with the difficulty now, I'd be fine with more difficulty so long as it didn't split me up from those I want to play with. I do want the company behind the game to at least appear to give a targ's hindquarters about the experience that new players have in the game, and to at least appear to encourage a helpful, positive attitude at least in public channels. During Beta I understood there being little to no rule enforcement and people feeling free to be as disgusting/abusive/etc as they could manage. Now I'd like to see at least some attempt to discourage the people who are making this game a heavily negative place to be.
If that's not in line with Cryptic's philosophy-- if the picture this has been painting is accurate about Cryptic's priorities and what they want from the game-- then I just want to know that, because in that case it's not a good fit for my kind of player, and everybody would be happier if people who wanted a better environment from the game moved on to a game with a better environment rather than staying and being distressed/unhappy with the way it is now.
The reason I'm leaving this as feedback here, for discussion, is twofold: One, because if this IS the way Cryptic approaches things, personally I would have liked to know before pre-ordering this game. Two, because if it ISN'T the picture Cryptic wants to create, I know I would be seriously relieved to see something to the contrary, and I think there might be others who would be relieved to know it.
As a side effect, it might also serve to illustrate just how ugly the playerbase actually is at times, I don't know. Maybe people will rise to the occasion and discuss things calmly. I'd really like that.
1. Watch the people that seem to know what they are doing
2. PM them to switch instances with you to least populated instance
3. ???
4. Profit!
No that's failure, first of all because it won;t work most of the time, secondly because 1 screwup can ruin the event for everyone, and finally because it places the blame for a badly designed encounter and information system on the players.
ok I haven't done the Entity in a really long time....so what's changed with it?
You can't one-shot it with Emergency Power to Engines -> Engine Battery -> Ramming Speed (or whatever the combo used to be). Now you have to fight it with nearly the organization of a full blown raid.
First of all... the "Where is Sulu?" problem is in no way Cryptics fault. Seriously, if you don't take the time to turn around and click on people to see what NPC's are in the game, then you deserve snarky comments.
Play the freakin game. If anyone is to blame its WoW for dumbing down quest processes so far that you don't even have to read the quest. I could make a quest to kill 100 innocent children and I bet 90% would do it without a second glance, and would hand in for their uber reward without even realizing what they did.
I personally answer questions when I am online all the time. So to generalize me into some group with people who are jerks really is insulting.
As for the entity, you don't have to do it... and honestly its probably just best not to. In fact, for me it showed me who to avoid.
The problem is most people aren't informed enough to develope a strategy and the majority of people shouting not to kill Large Fragments are completely wrong to do so.
Another admiral and I were able to help a group of newbies kill it because we both understood that you MUST kill large fragments. By killing them, you prevent the small fragments from spawning and healing the entity. With both of us only concentrating on large fragments, we prevented the uninformed from hitting them, and causing small fragments to spawn, which in turn allowed the instance to kill the entity.
But I agree, although I don't think its cryptics fault, I think its just human nature.
For example, I was called a troll for correcting someones answer on Starbase 01, because they were incorrect. The next thing I know, this misinformed person is telling another player with caps and cuss words that there are no Very rare BO's and that he should just buy a BO from the vendor on the space station.
I had to once again correct him, by linking a very rare BO (purple BO) and explaining to him that there are indeed such BO's.
This is just human nature. To call someone a troll, and then turn around and shout and cuss at others. Thats just the nature of some people.
Cryptic cannot baby sit people, and even if they change the entity these people will still be there and be yelling at something, or someone.
We have played the freakin game and found it lacking. Several quests I took had no information or bad information about where I was suppose to go and do. The fact that 99% of all quests are the same 5 missions in the same 5 maps over and over and over tends to diminish one's interest.
The entity quest is a clear example of bad design. The fact that you encourage people to avoid what should be a very intersting fight shows this.
The problem of people not being informed is because Cryptic didn't give any information out about the encounter. Nor did any quest prior give people to the tools to come to a good strategy. This shows that the quest was just dropped in with no forthought and no intended relationship to the storyline or gameplay that came prior.
Cryptic isn't be asked to babysit people, it's being asked to acknowledge bad design choices that confuse their customers. If "where is sulu" being spammed then address it and move Sulu or find a better way to lead players to him.
ok I haven't done the Entity in a really long time....so what's changed with it?
As stated, Ramming Speed is nerfed.
But in-game the real problem is that the correct strategy seems to be confused by people. A lot of people seem to think that you're supposed to completely avoid shards, that firing on them causes them to heal the Crystalline Entity just like getting hit with them does. But it doesn't.
Unfortunately if you try to say so you're not only drowned out with comments about how "ur stuped [sic]" and how you're clearly wrong even though if people stopped what they were doing for a moment and just watched you as you destroyed a shard--or hell, tried to destroy one themselves--they'd see it doesn't spawn the healing shards...
The other issue is that once it gets down to about 30% health or so--if you ever see it get down that far, assuming people spamming mines and torpedoes or constantly getting hit with shards doesn't keep it at 100%--it goes into The Last Starfighter mode where it pumps out dozens and dozens of shards, which almost no one has a hope of dodging and which can only be handled by everyone firing on them. Naturally insread of doing that people get gobsmacked by them and the Crystalline Entity gets healed back up.
With all that said, however, I have to agree with everything stated by the original poster. I've been defending the developers so far and I really want to keep doing so, but...
We have played the freakin game and found it lacking. Several quests I took had no information or bad information about where I was suppose to go and do. The fact that 99% of all quests are the same 5 missions in the same 5 maps over and over and over tends to diminish one's interest.
The entity quest is a clear example of bad design. The fact that you encourage people to avoid what should be a very intersting fight shows this.
The problem of people not being informed is because Cryptic didn't give any information out about the encounter. Nor did any quest prior give people to the tools to come to a good strategy. This shows that the quest was just dropped in with no forthought and no intended relationship to the storyline or gameplay that came prior.
Cryptic isn't be asked to babysit people, it's being asked to acknowledge bad design choices that confuse their customers. If "where is sulu" being spammed then address it and move Sulu or find a better way to lead players to him.
~ Foulwin
First of all, I'm 45, and there are multitudes of quests and types of quests. By saying 99% of all quests are the same, makes me think you've barely even began to play the game.
Secondly, you don't avoid the entity, you avoid the idiots trying to do it.
Lastly, God forbid that you have to read and comprehend what you read, or figure out something for yourself rather than have it handed to you by the devs.
So what you're asking for is for Cryptic to play your game for you? If thats what you want thats cool but... I think I'll pass on that personally. Some of the quests were tricky to find, but by reading the quest text and using the sector/galaxy maps I never got stuck for too long exploring to find a location.
And my opinion is that the Entity is perfect design. It shows that Cryptic has it in them to design raid bosses, and ... gasp... design content that requires team work! Problem is not Cryptics, its the fact that there are too many chiefs, and not enough Indians.
FWIW, I think that the crowd playing STO is very different than the traditional MMO crowd. We aren't dealing with hard core gamers who have dealt with complex games before, we have a lot of casual gamers who love the star trek brand. I read a blog post from a 45 year old women who went to a computer store and asked the sales person to visit the STO website and sell her a computer that met the system reqs (very funny blog btw).
What does that mean? It means that we have sarcastic gamers mixed in with overwhelmed noobies. That's not good for either, with the exception of those who enjoy helping noobs (read as: I'm nicer than you).
I think its important for Cryptic to realize this and provide the right experience to each. Otherwise we are going to have a repeat of the iPhone disaster when they lowered the price by $200 after three months. Sure early adopters expect that kind of thing, but the people who bought the phones weren't normal early adopters, they were apple lovers who felt betrayed by there favorite company. STO is full of Trek lovers, and they are going to be disappointed if the experience is only catered to gamers.
FWIW, I think that the crowd playing STO is very different than the traditional MMO crowd. We aren't dealing with hard core gamers who have dealt with complex games before, we have a lot of casual gamers who love the star trek brand. I read a blog post from a 45 year old women who went to a computer store and asked the sales person to visit the STO website and sell her a computer that met the system reqs (very funny blog btw).
What does that mean? It means that we have sarcastic gamers mixed in with overwhelmed noobies. That's not good for either, with the exception of those who enjoy helping noobs (read as: I'm nicer than you).
I think its important for Cryptic to realize this and provide the right experience to each. Otherwise we are going to have a repeat of the iPhone disaster when they lowered the price by $200 after three months. Sure early adopters expect that kind of thing, but the people who bought the phones weren't normal early adopters, they were apple lovers who felt betrayed by there favorite company. STO is full of Trek lovers, and they are going to be disappointed if the experience is only catered to gamers.
FYI - I love the game.
I agree, but at the same time I don't think the Entity is going to make or break the game for people. At least it shouldn't. I mean its such a small fraction of the game, if even a fraction. You don't even have to do it to progress, and once people realize how to beat it it will become very easy to do.
Ground missions: Kill everything in the base to get object X. Yep did that all the damn time, nothing stood out. I remember about 4 different bases repeated over and over again.
Ground misison: Go to planet and scan 5 objects with no NPC's, either character or environment around... yea did that all the time.
Ground mission: Go to a station and click terminals which for some reason are spread out over the entire map, I guess the future doesn't have local networks. Yea, did that all the time on the same few maps.
Space mission: Kill all enemies conviently located in the ring of asteroids going around the planet. Check, did that all the damn time.
Space mission: Scan ships to find contraband.. yea always the same NPC ship models, always patiently waiting for me to scan them, no surprises ever like NPC reinforcements or suprise weapons or anything.
Space mission: Clear NPC's to a base and them beam down and repeat one of the ground missions I'd already done before...yea, happened all the time.
No I was right, majority of all missions had no unique storyline, gameplay or suprise to them at all.
Next, your right, it's the players fault when the mission text gives you no idea where to go or in fact bad information on where to go. We should have to figure out things on our own, that is obvious the Cryptic design strategy, see Alpha Memory, the skill tree, the universe map, enconters, etc. Such a well working design philosophy too. Nothing says success like misleading mission info.
Yes, that is what I want, Cryptic to play the game for me. It's not like I wanted exploration, a good storyline (even for the Klingons, you know, 1/2 the game), diplomacy, epic encounters with the unknown, well designed space combat (space bar slapping is fun!), decent crafting (Memory Alpha, where the no documentation design is forfront!) and variety in gameplay. No, that's crazy talk.
Still it's cute you try to strawman my critiques into "So what you're asking for is for Cryptic to play your game for you". Absolutely adorable for a 45 year old.
Next, you think the Crystal Entity is well designed? Jesus, you really have low standards don't you? Imagine this.. a game where players are given encounters that resemble boss fights so they can begin to adapt strategies before the boss fight. Imagine a missoin where you had to 'tow' an NPC around, or one where you had to 'pull' a mine into an enemy or away from an ally. Amazing! You've combined a unique story with unique gameplay that forshadows a boss fight! Totally unheard of! It's almost like you've subtely given tools to the players to approach your boss fights in a intelligent way instead of having to google 'STO wiki'.
As far as the way theyre handling it, I honestly am starting to think theyre actively encouraging ppl to troll/flame. They dont ban them anymore, they seem to lock threads where people are trying to calm down the other people on the forums, things like that.
It's pretty obvious that Cryptic failed to play-test their modifications to Crystalline Catastrophe. It does raise some pretty grave concerns for the future of STO if Cryptic is not willing to take the necessary measures to ensure quality development.
Mr. Blinker,
It took me about an hour to find the terminal where you deposit the biological sample at Memory Alpha. For others, it took even longer. I suggest that this is not due to the individual failure of gamers, but the failure of developers to impart succinct and detailed information by the quest giver. "Just south of here" is a very ambiguous phrase, and does not really entail much. Where is here? The building itself? The room? The immediate vicinity of where you are standing? How far is just south? Does that mean one hundred feet? Fifteen meters?
I have no doubt that if someone asked me directions to a location (that just happened to be 15 meters in front of me), that they would be highly confused by the phrase "just south of here."
Mr. Blinker,
It took me about an hour to find the terminal where you deposit the biological sample at Memory Alpha. For others, it took even longer. I suggest that this is not due to the individual failure of gamers, but the failure of developers to impart succinct and detailed information by the quest giver. "Just south of here" is a very ambiguous phrase, and does not really entail much. Where is here? The building itself? The room? The immediate vicinity of where you are standing? How far is just south? Does that mean one hundred feet? Fifteen meters?
I don't know, I read just south, looked at the map to determine south, turned around and poof... there was a flashing console in that direction. I went over and, what do you know, it was the aforementioned terminal. Took me all of 10 seconds. And that is not an exaggerated time, just how long it took me to follow the sequence I stated.
Kind of like "Where's Sulu". When I heard people couldn't find him I thought the jokes were just that.. jokes. Then I realized people really couldn't find him. That I have no explanation for. He's standing right there with that big stupid thing over his head that means "Talk to Me".
Don't get me wrong, some of the directions could be more clear. There have been a couple of times when I actually had to work to find something, but only a couple. Most of the thing s I hear people complaining about are simply either not reading the directions or not actually thinking about what they mean.
I am not a pro gamer. I played a little City of Heroes before deciding I didn't like the straight jacket. Then I played some Champions, mainly because I had friends who were interested and I got picked for the closed beta (but not for STO, Irony). Unlike many I actually enjoyed Champions because of the freedom in character building. Still, that hardly makes me an expert at MMO's.
I read the text boxes because to me that is part of the story. What makes the game more than just buzzing around the galaxy blowing stuff up. Because I read the text and think about what it means I don't have a lot of trouble following the instructions.
As early as the handling of the "Where's Sulu?" thing, Cryptic has not only ignored how ugly the mood has been towards players with questions, it seems like they've actually encouraged it. All the 'right behind you' jokes that not only don't acknowledge that almost no information was given in the original text of the mission, but conveniently ignore that people had been wandering around and around the station trying to find him, And when this attempt at humour spawned hundreds of mocking 'Where's Sulu?' questions, which fostered even MORE hostility, it only got worse for people with genuine questions,
So can the same people who were making the 'Where's Sulu?' jokes right alongside them-- griefers who enjoy making other people frustrated and upset.
This is called elitism; the same kind of ugly people that insult PUGs, newbs, say look at your map idiot to a poor soul asking where picantus system is, treat you like your "out of the loop", etc. Elitists will always be around but I do understand your point about them and it is quite disgusting but that is some of the loathsome qualities that unfortunately surface in online gaming. At least the elitism here will never get as bad as EVE, there are quite a few patient and kind people in STO game. I suggest make friends with a few people you know are relaxed and kind, that way you will have a good person to turn to when you have a question.
Most boss battles people havent a clue as to what they are doing the first time. Entity is no exception to the rule. As a matter of fact Entity is so far the only 'boss' Ive seen in the game where rushing in with guns blazing is a BAD idea. Its not Cryptics job to tell us how to beat these encounters, its ours to tell the newbies how to do it. As for griefers, cant tell you about that one. i havent run into any and Ive been here since OB day 1, not to say there isnt any, just there must not be THAT many of them.
I stopped reading when I saw you were serious about "where's sulu".
The NPCs all have an icon over their head. I had no problem finding sulu and I didn't even read the quest. I just saw an icon on his head and thought this must be the "!" icon like worlds of warcraft. I did have some problem finding some NPCs so I just hit "M" to open my map and look for a circle. If there is no circle I just zoom in and highlight all the NPCs to find the person I need to talk to.
I don't have a lot of time to play so I'm only Lt CMD 3, but I have no problem finding what I need to do or where to go. I don't read the quest at all either. I just look at the right side of my screen and go or do what it tells me to. This game is fairly easy and straight forward. It's pretty hard to get lost when everything is broken up into cell blocks.
I think that is way people think it's funny when someone asks where is sulu because he is right in front of you when you enter the office. Matter of fact, I went to talk to Sulu 1st because of his name when I saw him as I entered the office.
I have never understood why people have trouble with Sulu in the first place. Perhaps he gets lost among people if theres several players in admirals office? Or maybe its the STO UI thats too confusing?
Its not like Cryptic hasn't done anything, every second NPC couple at starbase 1 goes "have you seen Sulu?" "He's in admiral's office". I have noticed this IS a valid problem, I just cant fathom why. Perhaps its some higher level problem in UI design theory?
There are couple suggestions that I would give to Cryptic, in general over these starting player troubles.
- Move Sulu to stand next to the admirals table (just in case)
- Add starmap usage and how you move in sector space to the tutorial (the thing I had trouble myself).
- Fix that button next to minimap so that warp to sector and beam to ship button ALWAYS works.It doesnt help that sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesnt (when exiting instanced mission maps). COHERENT is what the UI needs to be, Cryptic, COHERENT.
- remove the unteamed player icons from the local map when beamed down. They dont help at all when you need to find NPCs like Sulu.
As for the entity, I havent done it myself. However I recognise the fault of having an open mission where a single player can grief the rest.
So you're complaining to cryptic about the Entity and Sulu because of player error?
Seriously Sulu is right in front of you when you enter the Admirals office how these people keep missing him really does confuse me
Ground missions: Kill everything in the base to get object X. Yep did that all the damn time, nothing stood out. I remember about 4 different bases repeated over and over again.
Ground misison: Go to planet and scan 5 objects with no NPC's, either character or environment around... yea did that all the time.
Ground mission: Go to a station and click terminals which for some reason are spread out over the entire map, I guess the future doesn't have local networks. Yea, did that all the time on the same few maps.
Space mission: Kill all enemies conviently located in the ring of asteroids going around the planet. Check, did that all the damn time.
Space mission: Scan ships to find contraband.. yea always the same NPC ship models, always patiently waiting for me to scan them, no surprises ever like NPC reinforcements or suprise weapons or anything.
Space mission: Clear NPC's to a base and them beam down and repeat one of the ground missions I'd already done before...yea, happened all the time.
No I was right, majority of all missions had no unique storyline, gameplay or suprise to them at all.
Next, your right, it's the players fault when the mission text gives you no idea where to go or in fact bad information on where to go. We should have to figure out things on our own, that is obvious the Cryptic design strategy, see Alpha Memory, the skill tree, the universe map, enconters, etc. Such a well working design philosophy too. Nothing says success like misleading mission info.
Yes, that is what I want, Cryptic to play the game for me. It's not like I wanted exploration, a good storyline (even for the Klingons, you know, 1/2 the game), diplomacy, epic encounters with the unknown, well designed space combat (space bar slapping is fun!), decent crafting (Memory Alpha, where the no documentation design is forfront!) and variety in gameplay. No, that's crazy talk.
Still it's cute you try to strawman my critiques into "So what you're asking for is for Cryptic to play your game for you". Absolutely adorable for a 45 year old.
Next, you think the Crystal Entity is well designed? Jesus, you really have low standards don't you? Imagine this.. a game where players are given encounters that resemble boss fights so they can begin to adapt strategies before the boss fight. Imagine a missoin where you had to 'tow' an NPC around, or one where you had to 'pull' a mine into an enemy or away from an ally. Amazing! You've combined a unique story with unique gameplay that forshadows a boss fight! Totally unheard of! It's almost like you've subtely given tools to the players to approach your boss fights in a intelligent way instead of having to google 'STO wiki'.
Simpy shocking I know.
~ Foulwin
What I find shocking is the fact that everyone conveniently forgets that almost all MMOs are just repetitive rehashes of the same types of missions. You know what? I would much rather kill 5 waves of Tribble mother ships than kill 5 bears thank you very much.
Have you played a MMO before? I only ask because repetitive missions are pretty much the standard in MMOs. Some hide it better than others but it is always there.
First of all... the "Where is Sulu?" problem is in no way Cryptics fault. Seriously, if you don't take the time to turn around and click on people to see what NPC's are in the game, then you deserve snarky comments.
Actually in a way it is their fault.
Sulu isn't highlighted when you enter the room, and lot of people don't bother reading quest texts, just the objectives (their fault I know, but it is common enough that you have to take it into account when designing something).
When you go up to the admiral you will have sulu behind you to the right.
The door is behind you to the left.
Most people are right handed with the mouse on the right side of the keyboard. The most natural turn is moving the mouse towards you, turning left. Most people never see the objective marker above Sulu. Instead they just see the door.
Any way you slice it, designing an encounter where a single uninformed or hostile player can make the encounter infinite is bad design. A single ship equipped with mines in every available mine-worthy slot can heal the Entity faster than the rest of the players in the encounter can kill it, simple as that, and even without mines, uninformed players who have been blasted with all kinds of misinformation and don't know what to do getting pasted by shards will also heal it quicker than it can be killed. To make no mention of that in any available in-game information, to demand that people go outside the game design and find out from some other sources, that strengthens the general impression of "We don't give a damn" I'm getting from Cryptic.
Like I said, I haven't had any significant problem completing the missions, etc, I didn't even have that much trouble finding Sulu. I just remember it being very confusing, especially being dumped from a very linear tutorial where everyone you needed was clearly described into a messy overwhelming and very poorly mapped station, and I don't think some of the people who got lost were idiots. The first time I looked for Sulu he was surrounded by players and I didn't see him, had no idea while I was in the Admiral's office that he was sharing space with a minor officer so it didn't occur to me to look there, and I ended up retracing my steps to find him, this was long before there were any NPC hints etc. On its own it was no big deal, it just looked like an oversight and some awkward implementation of game content.
But joining in the mockery of players and encouraging the people who kept repeating "Where's Sulu?" over and over to the frustration of people actually trying to help only deepened the ugly mood that was fostering over people having to ask questions-- and that was a fairly predictable outcome. It's an example of not caring and not thinking about the fallout of actions. And it's only the first example I encountered. I went into pretty specific detail about other elements that lend the same impression. The unexplained, undescribed in-game changes to the Entity which put casual players squarely in the crossfire between griefers and people who think the uninformed are responsible for all MMO ills, cast in that light, send a clear message that Cryptic encourages these players be kicked around and abused. I don't want to put money into something like that.
I don't think it's asking to have the game 'play itself for you' to have information be consistant in the game, to have quest directions written so they agree with one another-- and anybody still in the LtC range doesn't really have enough experience to say there's no problem, you haven't been told by one set of instructions to get samples from Hobus II while the other set says to go to Hobus I and scan a shield, for one thing. I don't think it's reasonable not to be able to access star maps, for instance, without being in the sector-- tons of questions people get landed on for would be avoided either by consistantly mentioning the sector in the directions OR having the maps be remotely viewable in the Library computer. I don't think it's a big deal to ask Cryptic to think about/care about the experience it gives people who are just here to enjoy a beloved franchise and instead get a faceful of some of the most hostile, aggressive treatment I've seen in a game since I left EvE.
I also don't think it's asking a lot to expect them to do anything to discourage/deter the people who are being so hostile to their players, nor to encourage an attitude of helpfulness. I don't think it sets a good tone or sends a good message when most of what they do on the forums is snark at people and when the one thing they have done to address what's happening in-game is to legitimize and join the mocking of people who are honestly confused by their work. It removes the benefit of the doubt for me when, after that, they set those same people up in a situation where by making a mistake they can destroy others' progress rather than simply destroy their own.
But as far as I was concerned, the worst thing Cryptic could say on this issue was nothing at all. I'll give it a while longer, but as far as I'm concerned silence sends the clearest message on both of the issues that were shooting down my hopes for this game. If they can't spare a few words to say, "Yes, we do care", I don't want to keep stretching my patience hoping it will get better. A game rots from the staff out.
My only beef with the Entity mission is that there isnt any non-mission or non-boss loot for support folks and that the rewards that you get for the mission do NOT match the time/difficulty involved. I was at it for 5-6 hrs last nite and due to folks not doing what they were supposed to we never beat it. The rewards should reflect that effort.
in real life your not always given super details about a mission, mostly its general then you wing it as you go, If you cant find a place zone around a little, search and use your mind, dont need to dumb down the quests, just needs less patrol and defenc junk and more storyline quests like dooms day machine etc.
and the enity you should be allowed to do with just your fleet or a PuG if thats what you like.
Good post anyways and well thougth out, always nice to stick up for the little guy
The main issue I see with CE, its the first time a new player will be in a situation were they are not expected to shoot everything that moves.
There should be part of the tutorial in the Borg area, where there are something prominently placed that if you shoot, fixes all the broken devices and you have to start you 6 kills again, as a training for this (an possibly other) missions. Or after the 6 where you run to engine room, where you should not shoot the Borg, or or they they will all attack you, and you are give clear instructions to get down to engine room and not get the attention of the Borg on your way.
Missions, where you are to attack somethings and not others are a basic staple of games, it seems to be added to CE without any warning or clue that is should be different from anything else. I feel there should be many more missions like that, where you could actually fail a mission. I am not sure failing a mission is possible in STO, worst I have had was giving up after about 10 tries of not being able to take out the group of +5 ships.
I don't know, I read just south, looked at the map to determine south, turned around and poof... there was a flashing console in that direction. I went over and, what do you know, it was the aforementioned terminal. Took me all of 10 seconds. And that is not an exaggerated time, just how long it took me to follow the sequence I stated.
Kind of like "Where's Sulu". When I heard people couldn't find him I thought the jokes were just that.. jokes. Then I realized people really couldn't find him. That I have no explanation for. He's standing right there with that big stupid thing over his head that means "Talk to Me".
Don't get me wrong, some of the directions could be more clear. There have been a couple of times when I actually had to work to find something, but only a couple. Most of the thing s I hear people complaining about are simply either not reading the directions or not actually thinking about what they mean.
I am not a pro gamer. I played a little City of Heroes before deciding I didn't like the straight jacket. Then I played some Champions, mainly because I had friends who were interested and I got picked for the closed beta (but not for STO, Irony). Unlike many I actually enjoyed Champions because of the freedom in character building. Still, that hardly makes me an expert at MMO's.
I read the text boxes because to me that is part of the story. What makes the game more than just buzzing around the galaxy blowing stuff up. Because I read the text and think about what it means I don't have a lot of trouble following the instructions.
You're suggesting that people did not think about it, which I don't think is necessarily true. From a cognitive and psycholinguistics perspective:
If you were at a fast food restaurant and asked someone standing behind the counter where the nearest trash can was, he/she would not say "just south of here."
Such a phrase is used in scenarios where one is lost while driving. Most people are probably going to interpret such directions within this same context because that is when such a phrase is most frequently used.
In my case I immediately ran south using spacebar. So unfortunately I failed to see the terminal. Given a different set of circumstances however, I would have ignored the terminal anyway, because I interpreted the directions within the later context and went looking south of the current room and building that I was in.
Does this mean I didn't read directions, or wasn't thoughtful about what was being said? Certainly not.
Comments
2. PM them to switch instances with you to least populated instance
3. ???
4. Profit!
No that's failure, first of all because it won;t work most of the time, secondly because 1 screwup can ruin the event for everyone, and finally because it places the blame for a badly designed encounter and information system on the players.
You can't one-shot it with Emergency Power to Engines -> Engine Battery -> Ramming Speed (or whatever the combo used to be). Now you have to fight it with nearly the organization of a full blown raid.
With a PUG.
First of all... the "Where is Sulu?" problem is in no way Cryptics fault. Seriously, if you don't take the time to turn around and click on people to see what NPC's are in the game, then you deserve snarky comments.
Play the freakin game. If anyone is to blame its WoW for dumbing down quest processes so far that you don't even have to read the quest. I could make a quest to kill 100 innocent children and I bet 90% would do it without a second glance, and would hand in for their uber reward without even realizing what they did.
I personally answer questions when I am online all the time. So to generalize me into some group with people who are jerks really is insulting.
As for the entity, you don't have to do it... and honestly its probably just best not to. In fact, for me it showed me who to avoid.
The problem is most people aren't informed enough to develope a strategy and the majority of people shouting not to kill Large Fragments are completely wrong to do so.
Another admiral and I were able to help a group of newbies kill it because we both understood that you MUST kill large fragments. By killing them, you prevent the small fragments from spawning and healing the entity. With both of us only concentrating on large fragments, we prevented the uninformed from hitting them, and causing small fragments to spawn, which in turn allowed the instance to kill the entity.
But I agree, although I don't think its cryptics fault, I think its just human nature.
For example, I was called a troll for correcting someones answer on Starbase 01, because they were incorrect. The next thing I know, this misinformed person is telling another player with caps and cuss words that there are no Very rare BO's and that he should just buy a BO from the vendor on the space station.
I had to once again correct him, by linking a very rare BO (purple BO) and explaining to him that there are indeed such BO's.
This is just human nature. To call someone a troll, and then turn around and shout and cuss at others. Thats just the nature of some people.
Cryptic cannot baby sit people, and even if they change the entity these people will still be there and be yelling at something, or someone.
We have played the freakin game and found it lacking. Several quests I took had no information or bad information about where I was suppose to go and do. The fact that 99% of all quests are the same 5 missions in the same 5 maps over and over and over tends to diminish one's interest.
The entity quest is a clear example of bad design. The fact that you encourage people to avoid what should be a very intersting fight shows this.
The problem of people not being informed is because Cryptic didn't give any information out about the encounter. Nor did any quest prior give people to the tools to come to a good strategy. This shows that the quest was just dropped in with no forthought and no intended relationship to the storyline or gameplay that came prior.
Cryptic isn't be asked to babysit people, it's being asked to acknowledge bad design choices that confuse their customers. If "where is sulu" being spammed then address it and move Sulu or find a better way to lead players to him.
~ Foulwin
As stated, Ramming Speed is nerfed.
But in-game the real problem is that the correct strategy seems to be confused by people. A lot of people seem to think that you're supposed to completely avoid shards, that firing on them causes them to heal the Crystalline Entity just like getting hit with them does. But it doesn't.
Unfortunately if you try to say so you're not only drowned out with comments about how "ur stuped [sic]" and how you're clearly wrong even though if people stopped what they were doing for a moment and just watched you as you destroyed a shard--or hell, tried to destroy one themselves--they'd see it doesn't spawn the healing shards...
The other issue is that once it gets down to about 30% health or so--if you ever see it get down that far, assuming people spamming mines and torpedoes or constantly getting hit with shards doesn't keep it at 100%--it goes into The Last Starfighter mode where it pumps out dozens and dozens of shards, which almost no one has a hope of dodging and which can only be handled by everyone firing on them. Naturally insread of doing that people get gobsmacked by them and the Crystalline Entity gets healed back up.
With all that said, however, I have to agree with everything stated by the original poster. I've been defending the developers so far and I really want to keep doing so, but...
First of all, I'm 45, and there are multitudes of quests and types of quests. By saying 99% of all quests are the same, makes me think you've barely even began to play the game.
Secondly, you don't avoid the entity, you avoid the idiots trying to do it.
Lastly, God forbid that you have to read and comprehend what you read, or figure out something for yourself rather than have it handed to you by the devs.
So what you're asking for is for Cryptic to play your game for you? If thats what you want thats cool but... I think I'll pass on that personally. Some of the quests were tricky to find, but by reading the quest text and using the sector/galaxy maps I never got stuck for too long exploring to find a location.
And my opinion is that the Entity is perfect design. It shows that Cryptic has it in them to design raid bosses, and ... gasp... design content that requires team work! Problem is not Cryptics, its the fact that there are too many chiefs, and not enough Indians.
What does that mean? It means that we have sarcastic gamers mixed in with overwhelmed noobies. That's not good for either, with the exception of those who enjoy helping noobs (read as: I'm nicer than you).
I think its important for Cryptic to realize this and provide the right experience to each. Otherwise we are going to have a repeat of the iPhone disaster when they lowered the price by $200 after three months. Sure early adopters expect that kind of thing, but the people who bought the phones weren't normal early adopters, they were apple lovers who felt betrayed by there favorite company. STO is full of Trek lovers, and they are going to be disappointed if the experience is only catered to gamers.
FYI - I love the game.
I agree, but at the same time I don't think the Entity is going to make or break the game for people. At least it shouldn't. I mean its such a small fraction of the game, if even a fraction. You don't even have to do it to progress, and once people realize how to beat it it will become very easy to do.
Let's see.
Ground missions: Kill everything in the base to get object X. Yep did that all the damn time, nothing stood out. I remember about 4 different bases repeated over and over again.
Ground misison: Go to planet and scan 5 objects with no NPC's, either character or environment around... yea did that all the time.
Ground mission: Go to a station and click terminals which for some reason are spread out over the entire map, I guess the future doesn't have local networks. Yea, did that all the time on the same few maps.
Space mission: Kill all enemies conviently located in the ring of asteroids going around the planet. Check, did that all the damn time.
Space mission: Scan ships to find contraband.. yea always the same NPC ship models, always patiently waiting for me to scan them, no surprises ever like NPC reinforcements or suprise weapons or anything.
Space mission: Clear NPC's to a base and them beam down and repeat one of the ground missions I'd already done before...yea, happened all the time.
No I was right, majority of all missions had no unique storyline, gameplay or suprise to them at all.
Next, your right, it's the players fault when the mission text gives you no idea where to go or in fact bad information on where to go. We should have to figure out things on our own, that is obvious the Cryptic design strategy, see Alpha Memory, the skill tree, the universe map, enconters, etc. Such a well working design philosophy too. Nothing says success like misleading mission info.
Yes, that is what I want, Cryptic to play the game for me. It's not like I wanted exploration, a good storyline (even for the Klingons, you know, 1/2 the game), diplomacy, epic encounters with the unknown, well designed space combat (space bar slapping is fun!), decent crafting (Memory Alpha, where the no documentation design is forfront!) and variety in gameplay. No, that's crazy talk.
Still it's cute you try to strawman my critiques into "So what you're asking for is for Cryptic to play your game for you". Absolutely adorable for a 45 year old.
Next, you think the Crystal Entity is well designed? Jesus, you really have low standards don't you? Imagine this.. a game where players are given encounters that resemble boss fights so they can begin to adapt strategies before the boss fight. Imagine a missoin where you had to 'tow' an NPC around, or one where you had to 'pull' a mine into an enemy or away from an ally. Amazing! You've combined a unique story with unique gameplay that forshadows a boss fight! Totally unheard of! It's almost like you've subtely given tools to the players to approach your boss fights in a intelligent way instead of having to google 'STO wiki'.
Simpy shocking I know.
~ Foulwin
Your post is 90% content free. Please trim it down to the core issue that bothers you and don't write a wall of text diatribe.
It took me about an hour to find the terminal where you deposit the biological sample at Memory Alpha. For others, it took even longer. I suggest that this is not due to the individual failure of gamers, but the failure of developers to impart succinct and detailed information by the quest giver. "Just south of here" is a very ambiguous phrase, and does not really entail much. Where is here? The building itself? The room? The immediate vicinity of where you are standing? How far is just south? Does that mean one hundred feet? Fifteen meters?
I have no doubt that if someone asked me directions to a location (that just happened to be 15 meters in front of me), that they would be highly confused by the phrase "just south of here."
I don't know, I read just south, looked at the map to determine south, turned around and poof... there was a flashing console in that direction. I went over and, what do you know, it was the aforementioned terminal. Took me all of 10 seconds. And that is not an exaggerated time, just how long it took me to follow the sequence I stated.
Kind of like "Where's Sulu". When I heard people couldn't find him I thought the jokes were just that.. jokes. Then I realized people really couldn't find him. That I have no explanation for. He's standing right there with that big stupid thing over his head that means "Talk to Me".
Don't get me wrong, some of the directions could be more clear. There have been a couple of times when I actually had to work to find something, but only a couple. Most of the thing s I hear people complaining about are simply either not reading the directions or not actually thinking about what they mean.
I am not a pro gamer. I played a little City of Heroes before deciding I didn't like the straight jacket. Then I played some Champions, mainly because I had friends who were interested and I got picked for the closed beta (but not for STO, Irony). Unlike many I actually enjoyed Champions because of the freedom in character building. Still, that hardly makes me an expert at MMO's.
I read the text boxes because to me that is part of the story. What makes the game more than just buzzing around the galaxy blowing stuff up. Because I read the text and think about what it means I don't have a lot of trouble following the instructions.
This is called elitism; the same kind of ugly people that insult PUGs, newbs, say look at your map idiot to a poor soul asking where picantus system is, treat you like your "out of the loop", etc. Elitists will always be around but I do understand your point about them and it is quite disgusting but that is some of the loathsome qualities that unfortunately surface in online gaming. At least the elitism here will never get as bad as EVE, there are quite a few patient and kind people in STO game. I suggest make friends with a few people you know are relaxed and kind, that way you will have a good person to turn to when you have a question.
I did notice gold selling spam went down though.
The NPCs all have an icon over their head. I had no problem finding sulu and I didn't even read the quest. I just saw an icon on his head and thought this must be the "!" icon like worlds of warcraft. I did have some problem finding some NPCs so I just hit "M" to open my map and look for a circle. If there is no circle I just zoom in and highlight all the NPCs to find the person I need to talk to.
I don't have a lot of time to play so I'm only Lt CMD 3, but I have no problem finding what I need to do or where to go. I don't read the quest at all either. I just look at the right side of my screen and go or do what it tells me to. This game is fairly easy and straight forward. It's pretty hard to get lost when everything is broken up into cell blocks.
I think that is way people think it's funny when someone asks where is sulu because he is right in front of you when you enter the office. Matter of fact, I went to talk to Sulu 1st because of his name when I saw him as I entered the office.
Its not like Cryptic hasn't done anything, every second NPC couple at starbase 1 goes "have you seen Sulu?" "He's in admiral's office". I have noticed this IS a valid problem, I just cant fathom why. Perhaps its some higher level problem in UI design theory?
There are couple suggestions that I would give to Cryptic, in general over these starting player troubles.
- Move Sulu to stand next to the admirals table (just in case)
- Add starmap usage and how you move in sector space to the tutorial (the thing I had trouble myself).
- Fix that button next to minimap so that warp to sector and beam to ship button ALWAYS works.It doesnt help that sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesnt (when exiting instanced mission maps). COHERENT is what the UI needs to be, Cryptic, COHERENT.
- remove the unteamed player icons from the local map when beamed down. They dont help at all when you need to find NPCs like Sulu.
As for the entity, I havent done it myself. However I recognise the fault of having an open mission where a single player can grief the rest.
Seriously Sulu is right in front of you when you enter the Admirals office how these people keep missing him really does confuse me
What I find shocking is the fact that everyone conveniently forgets that almost all MMOs are just repetitive rehashes of the same types of missions. You know what? I would much rather kill 5 waves of Tribble mother ships than kill 5 bears thank you very much.
Have you played a MMO before? I only ask because repetitive missions are pretty much the standard in MMOs. Some hide it better than others but it is always there.
Actually in a way it is their fault.
Sulu isn't highlighted when you enter the room, and lot of people don't bother reading quest texts, just the objectives (their fault I know, but it is common enough that you have to take it into account when designing something).
When you go up to the admiral you will have sulu behind you to the right.
The door is behind you to the left.
Most people are right handed with the mouse on the right side of the keyboard. The most natural turn is moving the mouse towards you, turning left. Most people never see the objective marker above Sulu. Instead they just see the door.
Like I said, I haven't had any significant problem completing the missions, etc, I didn't even have that much trouble finding Sulu. I just remember it being very confusing, especially being dumped from a very linear tutorial where everyone you needed was clearly described into a messy overwhelming and very poorly mapped station, and I don't think some of the people who got lost were idiots. The first time I looked for Sulu he was surrounded by players and I didn't see him, had no idea while I was in the Admiral's office that he was sharing space with a minor officer so it didn't occur to me to look there, and I ended up retracing my steps to find him, this was long before there were any NPC hints etc. On its own it was no big deal, it just looked like an oversight and some awkward implementation of game content.
But joining in the mockery of players and encouraging the people who kept repeating "Where's Sulu?" over and over to the frustration of people actually trying to help only deepened the ugly mood that was fostering over people having to ask questions-- and that was a fairly predictable outcome. It's an example of not caring and not thinking about the fallout of actions. And it's only the first example I encountered. I went into pretty specific detail about other elements that lend the same impression. The unexplained, undescribed in-game changes to the Entity which put casual players squarely in the crossfire between griefers and people who think the uninformed are responsible for all MMO ills, cast in that light, send a clear message that Cryptic encourages these players be kicked around and abused. I don't want to put money into something like that.
I don't think it's asking to have the game 'play itself for you' to have information be consistant in the game, to have quest directions written so they agree with one another-- and anybody still in the LtC range doesn't really have enough experience to say there's no problem, you haven't been told by one set of instructions to get samples from Hobus II while the other set says to go to Hobus I and scan a shield, for one thing. I don't think it's reasonable not to be able to access star maps, for instance, without being in the sector-- tons of questions people get landed on for would be avoided either by consistantly mentioning the sector in the directions OR having the maps be remotely viewable in the Library computer. I don't think it's a big deal to ask Cryptic to think about/care about the experience it gives people who are just here to enjoy a beloved franchise and instead get a faceful of some of the most hostile, aggressive treatment I've seen in a game since I left EvE.
I also don't think it's asking a lot to expect them to do anything to discourage/deter the people who are being so hostile to their players, nor to encourage an attitude of helpfulness. I don't think it sets a good tone or sends a good message when most of what they do on the forums is snark at people and when the one thing they have done to address what's happening in-game is to legitimize and join the mocking of people who are honestly confused by their work. It removes the benefit of the doubt for me when, after that, they set those same people up in a situation where by making a mistake they can destroy others' progress rather than simply destroy their own.
But as far as I was concerned, the worst thing Cryptic could say on this issue was nothing at all. I'll give it a while longer, but as far as I'm concerned silence sends the clearest message on both of the issues that were shooting down my hopes for this game. If they can't spare a few words to say, "Yes, we do care", I don't want to keep stretching my patience hoping it will get better. A game rots from the staff out.
and the enity you should be allowed to do with just your fleet or a PuG if thats what you like.
Good post anyways and well thougth out, always nice to stick up for the little guy
There should be part of the tutorial in the Borg area, where there are something prominently placed that if you shoot, fixes all the broken devices and you have to start you 6 kills again, as a training for this (an possibly other) missions. Or after the 6 where you run to engine room, where you should not shoot the Borg, or or they they will all attack you, and you are give clear instructions to get down to engine room and not get the attention of the Borg on your way.
Missions, where you are to attack somethings and not others are a basic staple of games, it seems to be added to CE without any warning or clue that is should be different from anything else. I feel there should be many more missions like that, where you could actually fail a mission. I am not sure failing a mission is possible in STO, worst I have had was giving up after about 10 tries of not being able to take out the group of +5 ships.
You're suggesting that people did not think about it, which I don't think is necessarily true. From a cognitive and psycholinguistics perspective:
If you were at a fast food restaurant and asked someone standing behind the counter where the nearest trash can was, he/she would not say "just south of here."
Such a phrase is used in scenarios where one is lost while driving. Most people are probably going to interpret such directions within this same context because that is when such a phrase is most frequently used.
In my case I immediately ran south using spacebar. So unfortunately I failed to see the terminal. Given a different set of circumstances however, I would have ignored the terminal anyway, because I interpreted the directions within the later context and went looking south of the current room and building that I was in.
Does this mean I didn't read directions, or wasn't thoughtful about what was being said? Certainly not.