test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

How is this an MMO?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
This is an open question to both the developers and players of the game.

How is Start Trek Online an MMO?

I will begin with some comparisons that occured to me, and then others can show me if I am wrong.


Star Trek Online vs. Battlefield 2

BF2 = You start at a server screen and pick which fights (locations) you want to join.
STO = You start at a menu inside a graficly emulated server screen (sector space or a space station) and pick which fights you want to join.

BF2 = all battles are limited to 32 people on a side.
STO = all battles are limited to 10? people on a side.

BF2 = When you reach enough experience in a kit you can upgrade via the character screen and get better weapons.
STO = When you reach enough experience in a rank, you can upgrade via talking to NPC's in the space stations and get better ships/weapons.

I could go on with the comparisons, but I think most of you can see where I am going. There is more in the way of customizing your character skills in STO than in BF2, but my guess is that you are going to see more character customization coming in FPS games soon.

STO is no more an MMO than BF2 is, it just has a grafically emulated server/character screens instead of what we see in BF2.

There is nothing massive about a game where people are instanced to the point that even starbase looks deserted.

There is nothing massive about battles of max 20 people.

I beleive that Cryptic has a good reason for calling it an MMO, and that is that most of us in the MMO community are used to paying 12$-15$ a month in subscriber fees, something I doubt most people would do for a Multi-player FPS.


I understand that lovers of Star Trek will be quick to be defensive becuase of their love of the IP. I also understand that financially it is a lot cheaper to instance everything than it is to try to build servers that can suppost 300 players running around in Dalaran at once. That is not what I am questioning.

I personally think they did a great job of creating a Star Trek Multiplayer FPS, but have fallen far short of anything that we would think of as an MMO, and even far shorter than what I am willing to pay 15$ a month for.
Post edited by Unknown User on
«13456715

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    meh i see more people floating around sector space and talk to more people in Zone chat, and always see people running around space stations.... and the economy is always full of overpriced stuff (FPS has NONE of these things)

    feels more MMO than.. a certain Guild Wars ever did, in fact i'm seeing far more people than WAR (again heavily instanced) and AoC (doo be doo)

    Basically you're comparing it to WoW aren't you.......... oh dear.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Okay, I've got to agree. I'm enjoying the game but even Galaxies (a good example of what not to do with an MMO) managed to develop an environment in which players had a need to interact.

    Despite this being a great game, there is no NEED to interact with other players - progression depends in no way on the 'multiplayer' aspect of the game, which detracts from the 'massiveness' of the MMO. It's a MO, and the remaining 'M' is also questionable (I'm leaving in the M for Multiplayer, because it is still a Multiplayer... it just doesn't need to be!).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    deplorable wrote: »
    Basically you're comparing it to WoW aren't you.......... oh dear.

    WoW, Everquest, Everquest 2, Fallen Earth <gasp>, SWG, EVE, DnDO, the list goes on. These are all true MMO's. This is just FPS with lots of bells and whistles.



    Would you pay 15$ a mo. if they added a cool bar and trading post to BF2?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    GraS wrote: »
    Despite this being a great game, there is no NEED to interact with other players - ).

    And yet you CAN interract with many other players. A lack of a requirement to interract doesn't remove all those thousands of other players who are in the game with you. So STO qualifies as an MMO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    it's an mmo because you have an in game chat and then when you get bored you can talk to the massively misled on the forums and complain to the fresh air.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I am having great fun on the forums, havn't played the game in a few days, but the forums are fun.

    Am planning to give it a fresh start when they get out some of the stuff they have said they are working on.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Dekker001 wrote: »
    DnDO

    Sorry, that made me giggle. I remember at launch (and in beta) people going absolutely bonkers that DDO was not an MMO because of all the instancing. :D

    Ahh, I love the Internets.

    *munches popcorn*
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    it's an mmo because you have an in game chat and then when you get bored you can talk to the massively misled on the forums and complain to the fresh air.

    Ok i LOL'ed at that :p:p:p:p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Dekker001 wrote: »
    WoW, Everquest, Everquest 2, Fallen Earth <gasp>, SWG, EVE, DnDO, the list goes on. These are all true MMO's. This is just FPS with lots of bells and whistles.



    Would you pay 15$ a mo. if they added a cool bar and trading post to BF2?

    It's an MMO, because people like you are posting stuff like this on the forums. Sure sign.

    Oh, by the way you know when EQ2 was released? People moaned on the forums that it wasn't an MMO because it used multiple instances.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Dekkor,

    You posted the same thing 5 days ago and the answer is still the same. If you cannot understand what a MMORPG is by now their is not much we can say to explain it. If you cannot get your head around the idea of Persistent worlds holding 1,000's + accounts I suggest you just give up.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    it's an mmo because you have an in game chat and then when you get bored you can talk to the massively misled on the forums and complain to the fresh air.

    yea honestly I don't count on expectations, since they are part of a person and not part of the thing they look at. There is equal potential for great humor or a great game, so finding good stuff in anything is more my fun style.

    Shrug, Its exploration.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    kirrana wrote:
    Dekkor,

    You posted the same thing 5 days ago and the answer is still the same. If you cannot understand what a MMORPG is by now their is not much we can say to explain it. If you cannot get your head around the idea of Persistent worlds holding 1,000's + accounts I suggest you just give up.


    Not sure what your answer was, but your post assumes your answer is correct.

    And why give up on anything. If it is action not effect, then lost causes, or potential greats have the same reward to contribute to.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I'm enjoying the game but the op is right the only thing massive about this game is zone chat and its being stated in the reviews by gaming sites like mmorpg.com an orthers, as it stands now no point in recruiting a full fleet you will NEVER all be in the same zone unless cryptic makes changes, hell no point in recruiting more than 10 ppl because you will be lucky to get all 10 into the same fleet action. Again like I said I'm enjoying the game so far and am willing to wait an see what cryptic will do.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Dekker001 wrote: »
    This is an open question to both the developers and players of the game.

    How is Start Trek Online an MMO?

    I will begin with some comparisons that occured to me, and then others can show me if I am wrong.


    Star Trek Online vs. Battlefield 2

    BF2 = You start at a server screen and pick which fights (locations) you want to join.
    STO = You start at a menu inside a graficly emulated server screen (sector space or a space station) and pick which fights you want to join.

    BF2 = all battles are limited to 32 people on a side.
    STO = all battles are limited to 10? people on a side.

    BF2 = When you reach enough experience in a kit you can upgrade via the character screen and get better weapons.
    STO = When you reach enough experience in a rank, you can upgrade via talking to NPC's in the space stations and get better ships/weapons.

    I could go on with the comparisons, but I think most of you can see where I am going. There is more in the way of customizing your character skills in STO than in BF2, but my guess is that you are going to see more character customization coming in FPS games soon.

    STO is no more an MMO than BF2 is, it just has a grafically emulated server/character screens instead of what we see in BF2.

    There is nothing massive about a game where people are instanced to the point that even starbase looks deserted.

    There is nothing massive about battles of max 20 people.

    I beleive that Cryptic has a good reason for calling it an MMO, and that is that most of us in the MMO community are used to paying 12$-15$ a month in subscriber fees, something I doubt most people would do for a Multi-player FPS.


    I understand that lovers of Star Trek will be quick to be defensive becuase of their love of the IP. I also understand that financially it is a lot cheaper to instance everything than it is to try to build servers that can suppost 300 players running around in Dalaran at once. That is not what I am questioning.

    I personally think they did a great job of creating a Star Trek Multiplayer FPS, but have fallen far short of anything that we would think of as an MMO, and even far shorter than what I am willing to pay 15$ a month for.

    your right STO is highly instanced and they number of players you can see in the ui is very limited. However, you can roll play with thousands of players in the zone chat channels and it is a game. Now if they actually instance the chat channels so that only 100 or so see what you type even if there are 10,000 people in your zone then you would be right.

    Since you can rollplay in chat with thousands of players in the game then it is a mmorpg.

    One way to test this would be to have everyone in a zone type in a consecutive number 1 2 3 4 5 and so on it could well be they instanced chat too. Then it would be a morpg.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Zathurus wrote: »
    Not sure what your answer was, but your post assumes your answer is correct.

    And why give up on anything. If it is action not effect, then lost causes, or potential greats have the same reward to contribute to.

    Well yes my answer is correct. The term MMORPG has a defined meaning to save you looking it up here it is

    A massive(ly) multiplayer online role-playing game or MMORPG is a multiplayer computer role-playing game that enables thousands of players to play in an evolving virtual world at the same time over the Internet.

    You might as well argue what rain is as what MMORPG is.

    In terms of STO anyone who has not recently been let loose from a mental home would agree it meets this very limited scope. It does not mention instances or how many people are in the same area at once. Hence STO is a MMORPG :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    kirrana wrote:
    Dekkor,

    You posted the same thing 5 days ago and the answer is still the same. If you cannot understand what a MMORPG is by now their is not much we can say to explain it. If you cannot get your head around the idea of Persistent worlds holding 1,000's + accounts I suggest you just give up.

    the concept of a persistant world infers that you can change the world. In STO's case your actions have no effect nor does the universe ever change or evolve. STO like wow is designed to remain static.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    your right STO is highly instanced and they number of players you can see in the ui is very limited. However, you can roll play with thousands of players in the zone chat channels and it is a game. Now if they actually instance the chat channels so that only 100 or so see what you type even if there are 10,000 people in your zone then you would be right.

    Since you can rollplay in chat with thousands of players in the game then it is a mmorpg.

    One way to test this would be to have everyone in a zone type in a consecutive number 1 2 3 4 5 and so on it could well be they instanced chat too. Then it would be a morpg.

    Not an rper but why spend 15 bucks a month to sit in your ship an rp in chat........ thats like throwing a brick against a window an expecting subtlety its just TRIBBLE.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    your right STO is highly instanced and they number of players you can see in the ui is very limited. However, you can roll play with thousands of players in the zone chat channels and it is a game. Now if they actually instance the chat channels so that only 100 or so see what you type even if there are 10,000 people in your zone then you would be right.

    Since you can rollplay in chat with thousands of players in the game then it is a mmorpg.

    One way to test this would be to have everyone in a zone type in a consecutive number 1 2 3 4 5 and so on it could well be they instanced chat too. Then it would be a morpg.

    It is possible zone chat is instanced, or forum posts for that matter, sorted by red flag count or any other criteria or by the ability to find areas to talk in.

    Although in the real world that would be easy to figure out as you state, so the idea would be to make it sound not believable by pushing the group that might think that to a fringe, which would just be making sure they link to stuff that is fringe, making there ability to communicate with average people far less since base information they build perception off of would be different
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    this stupid thing again?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    They already added something that requires players to interact. It's called the Crystaline Entity.

    Now all they need to do is add something that ends with less comical interactions.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    the concept of a persistant world infers that you can change the world. In STO's case your actions have no effect nor does the universe ever change or evolve. STO like wow is designed to remain static.


    **** me, bingo. Somebody gets it. Persistent worlds that people ( users, subscribers ) can alter, are exactly what an MMO is about.
    If I do X on planet Y then if you turn up 3 hours later the repercussions of my X must affect your choices otherwise its just a ****** little single player game where you get annoying kids being abusive to each other when you go to sector space.

    this is a single player game with chat that abuses the good will of the half-wits addicted to Star trek.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    hmm is anarchy online an mmorpg becouse I think AO and STo are very similar
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Id have to agree with this post. I love this game, and am a lifer, but this is the first mmo Ive played that feels nothing like one. Perhaps it is bacause I have only played developed games (this was the first I played through beta), but in every mmo Ive played there has been an almost freeform storyline where you could go explore, do side quests, travel around just saoking in the scenery and care that was put into the games.

    I guess the things that make this seem like it is not an mmo to are these things,

    Lack of exploration. Im not talking about a profession or misssions, just open exploration of space. In E&B I would just fly around randomly exploring, chancing encounters with different creatures or hostiles. In this was, exploration seemed to help create a sense of vasteness that STO lacks at this point. Obviously sector space doesn't convey a true sense of grandure. Maybe if they made it much bigger, the ships smaller, decreased the speed of ships, and put in non instanced random encounters it would lend to illusion of a more vaste space.

    Mission quality. Dont get me wronge, I do like the missions, but there are only so many times finding 4 objects, or ganking enemy ships can seem like fun. I have found the mission system is esentially like level grinding in wow, only you grind missions and not npcs. For me a mmo is always giving just a little more, a little different, a bit at a time, creating a real sense of depth to the game. Progressive side missions that have real impact on your characters story and game play are great, because it gives you a sense of consequence.

    This game IS technically a mmo, but it feels like Im playing a basic pc game. I think it has great potential if the game devs decide to put the money into it, and Ill continue to play it (lifer) in the hopes that some nice changes come about.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    **** me, bingo. Somebody gets it. Persistent worlds that people ( users, subscribers ) are exactly what an MMO is about.
    If I do X on planet Y then if you turn up 3 hours later the repercussions of my X must affect your choices otherwise its just a ****** little single player game where you get annoying kids being abusive to each other when you go to sector space.

    this is a single player game with chat that abuses the good will of the half-wits addicted to Star trek.

    Erm thats not what Persistent means it has nothing to do with repercussions as such. The term used in this case refers to the fact the world still exists even when your not playing. When the servers are rebooted the state of the game is saved. For example your character, ship and items persist when you log off and back on again. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    **** me, bingo. Somebody gets it. Persistent worlds that people ( users, subscribers ) are exactly what an MMO is about.
    If I do X on planet Y then if you turn up 3 hours later the repercussions of my X must affect your choices otherwise its just a ****** little single player game where you get annoying kids being abusive to each other when you go to sector space.

    this is a single player game with chat that abuses the good will of the half-wits addicted to Star trek.

    So WoW is not an MMO? Or any of the other open world MMO's that have the same content for everyone. In all MMO's, you end up killing the same rat. You all get the same quest to collect x and kill y. When I go to where someone esle was in any MMO. The same thing will be there so I can complete the quest.

    A sandbox MMO is a little different. But they still have PvE in most of them with mobs that respawn or NPC's that are always in the same place selling the same stuff.

    That is why content doesn't define a MMO. Only the number of players playing the same game at the same time on servers that hold thousands of players. MMORPG just defined it as 500+ players online at the same time in a game equals an MMO on their site.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Skylan wrote:
    That is why content doesn't define a MMO. Only the number of players playing the same game at the same time on servers that hold thousands of players. MMORPG just defined it as 500+ players online at the same time in a game equals an MMO on their site.

    No content does define the mmo because a lack of it means you won't get 500 ppl playing before to long and then you have nothing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Skylan wrote:
    So WoW is not an MMO? Or any of the other open world MMO's that have the same content for everyone. In all MMO's, you end up killing the same rat. You all get the same quest to collect x and kill y. When I go to where someone esle was in any MMO. The same thing will be there so I can complete the quest.

    A sandbox MMO is a little different. But they still have PvE in most of them with mobs that respawn or NPC's that are always in the same place selling the same stuff.

    That is why content doesn't define a MMO. Only the number of players playing the same game at the same time on servers that hold thousands of players. MMORPG just defined it as 500+ players online at the same time in a game equals an MMO on their site.

    EVE PvE is famous for this. If I check in with my agent and request a mission (we'll say a "kill mission"), I'll be given a mission with a certain objective ( ... eff'ing Damsel). Run mission, complete mission, turn in and collect reward. Go back to my agent and request another mission; which - to my surprise ... is the same damn mission I JUST RAN! WTF?!

    That's the wonder PvE side of EVE. Sure, I could go out into the PvP world and participate in the "sandbox" ... but I could really care less about the politics involved, nor do I have 17 hours per day to sit online maintaining whatever stupid piece of space the Corp/Alliance holds.

    A lot of people are looking for new MMO's, since they are fed up with the old ones ... for whatever reason, be it - lack of time, interest or couldn't care less. This is where the new style of MMO's are becoming more prevalent. I'll agree that STO is heavily instanced and it may be more "chat room" than interaction; however, for the masses that are looking to play a game ... without having it become a job or career (like EVE), these genre's fit perfectly.

    Not saying that STO is the perfect MMO, far from it, it still has its issues. But the way it plays caters to the more casual of player. And remember, if you don't like the game ... don't play.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    well done ignoring the fact that you have a small, instanced persistent world where nothing that happens matters.

    You know what I mean. This game has no idea who has been where and what the effects are. And for the person above that mentioned wow, yes, that's what happens

    Oh and I was writing content for NWN back before you had ********s and the term MMO was being used so forgive me if I happen to think I know what a persistent world is.

    The only flag this game will have is the one they sell you in the c-store.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    well done ignoring the fact that you have a small, instanced persistent world where nothing that happens matters.

    You know what I mean. This game has no idea who has been where and what the effects are. And for the person above that mentioned wow, yes, that's what happens

    Oh and I was writing content for NWN back before you had ********s and the term MMO was being used so forgive me if I happen to think I know what a persistent world is.

    The only flag this game will have is the one they sell you in the c-store.

    If your subscription status is "CANCELLED" ... why are you still here?

    You're either self serving in your need to "troll" ... or you can't stay away, and in time your status will be ... PAID? Troll is a troll, I guess.

    Good day to you, sir.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    If your subscription status is "CANCELLED" ... why are you still here?

    Because he has Bitter Break Up Syndrome. That's where a player can't come to grips with moving on after deciding she doesn't like the game, and acts like a jilted girl friend.
Sign In or Register to comment.