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To those mad at Cryptic

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Before anybody can call me a "Cryptic Fanboy", I'd like to say that this is the first Cryptic designed game I've ever played and that I'm disappointed by some of the things in the game myself. However, despite that, I'd like to give all of those that are mad at Cryptic a new perspective on the situation. I know I'm not the first person to start a thread about this and many of the others have given extremely good points on the matter. I'd just like to supplement what they have already talked about.

I, like many of you, have been following this game since it was being designed by Perpetual. When I first learned about it's development, I was very excited by the prospect. Some of the features they had talked about, like their idea to let a team of people fly the ship, sounded amazing. The graphics they had rendered were stunningly beautiful. But, in the end, the game played a major part in Perpetual's demise. Perpetual faced the same problems that Cryptic has (I can't confirm if that was a real Perpetual dev in the article). In retrospect, I don't think Perpetual's version wouldn't have succeeded even if they had managed to release it. The graphics they rendered would have required such a high-end machine, that the majority of casual gamers would have been unable to play. Their idea to have a team of players controlling the ship from the bridge would never have worked (it had already lost much of it's support when the 2d view was announced).

Star Trek, is by nature, a difficult IP to develop a game of. Star Trek fans tend to be nit picky; they want every single thing their way and they want everything to adhere to canon. But, if game developers cater only to the fans, the game may not be fun for the other demographics, like gamers that play every new MMO and fans of all Sci-Fi series. So developers face the dilemma of making a game that will appeal to the "Trekkies" and still be fun for the widest possible range of players.

When Cryptic acquired the license, it was a risky maneuver. The difficulty of making a Star Trek MMO had been a leading factor in the demise of Perpetual. They knew that if they spent too much time making the game, they could face the same money problems that Perpetual faced. It may not have even been a decision on their part to get the game out fast. It seems very likely that they were given the 2 year deadline by Atari. Another possibility is that they wouldn't have had the license long enough to spend 4 or 5 years developing the game. It's possible that CBS only gave them the license for a short while so that the same thing that happened with Perpetual wouldn't repeat itself. The last thing CBS would want is for the game to get stuck in development hell for another 4 or 5 years. So you guys shouldn't put all of the blame on Cryptic for the rushed development cycle.

Cryptic, in my opinion, went down the right path for such a short development period. They worked on making a strong foundation that could easily be expanded and built upon in content patches. Instead of wasting time putting something in for everybody at launch, they decided to go with everybody being a Captain. The fact that they gave the game a good foundation, means that they left the option to go back and add these things we want in content patches. In my opinion, they did a dang good job for only 2 years of development. Because of their hard work, this game has the ability to turn into a really deep, amazing experience in the future.

So to all of you that are mad at Cryptic, I implore you to stay and play the game for a few months, even if you're not happy. Either that, or leave for a few months and then come back to see what has changed. Cryptic has stated in this interview that they plan to flesh out the non-combat gameplay over the course of this year. It was hinted at in this dev chat(scroll down until you see major content patches highlighted), that Cryptic plans to release larger content patches every few months. So, either play and enjoy what we have, or come back in a few months to see how much the game has improved. Considering how fast Cryptic releases content patches, it shouldn't surprise you if you come back and find the game has vastly improved.

To those that say this launch has been terrible
You are just a very vocal minority. The majority of those that have played other MMOs from launch, know that this has been one of the smoothest releases ever. Even professional game reviewers have noted the smooth launch. From GameSpot's preliminary review: "At least our time has been relatively stable..." From Gamepro's preliminary review "After those initial hiccups, however, I've found the servers to be largely compliant when I log into them."

To those that say Cryptic hasn't been listening to our suggestions for the game
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=116225
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I think they did a pretty good job at the tasks they took on. And i think that only way to understand how much work they did and effort they put into this game is if they were on staff and seen if first hand. They basically developed 2 games, Space and Ground, How many other MMO's have been able to do that? Even EVE online which is a hugely successful is still working to this day on trying to implement ground combat of some kind.

    Server stability has been somewhat frustrating at times, However i have been able to put a great deal of time after work and little on weekends to play, and i'm normally playing through peak times of the day due to nature of work, etc. And yet it's not been that bad, i indeed have seen worst in past mmo launches. And last week has been much much smoother then before.

    I see great potential in this game, i feel once i get up to max level or as i get further in game i may be more and more bored and wish there was more stuff. But Cryptic has already stated many of things they are working on getting implemented to flesh out game play much more in next year or so. I just hope they keep to their word and keep working as hard as they are now. I hope that community will give them a chance long enough for them to get over that big hump, all MMO's struggle in beginning and very very difficult to get over that first hump and get the ball rolling.

    I honestly am having fun with this game so far, I'm sure i will probably get bored in a month or 2, but i'm also confident that Cryptic will continue to add more stuff, and really this game does have a lot of potential.

    I hope people can just play, enjoy it as it is, it can still give at least a good month of playtime or much more for casual player (not for those already put 100 hours in to game!!!), then when get bored, come back another time!


    Just my early opinion, I've only put a few hours a day max since launch, and many days didn't have a chance due to work/life issues. but see good potential.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The only two things I want(right now) are respecialization and 5 more grades to grind for fun :) . I'm not kidding. At least give me the respecialization! :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I agree completely. You're definitely right about how they pretty much developed 2 games. This is pretty much a first in the MMO world, ground and space gameplay in one game. I think they did a very good job with both. At first, I was a bit disappointed with the ground combat, but now that I've reached Captain, I know that the ground gameplay improves vastly the higher your rank is. The one thing the ground gameplay really needs is a cover system and AI that will actually take cover when being fired at.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Before anybody can call me a "Cryptic Fanboy", I'd like to say that this is the first Cryptic designed game I've ever played and that I'm disappointed by some of the things in the game myself. However, despite that, I'd like to give all of those that are mad at Cryptic a new perspective on the situation. I know I'm not the first person to start a thread about this and many of the others have given extremely good points on the matter. I'd just like to supplement what they have already talked about.

    I, like many of you, have been following this game since it was being designed by Perpetual. When I first learned about it's development, I was very excited by the prospect. Some of the features they had talked about, like their idea to let a team of people fly the ship, sounded amazing. The graphics they had rendered were stunningly beautiful. But, in the end, the game played a major part in Perpetual's demise. Perpetual faced the same problems that Cryptic has (I can't confirm if that was a real Perpetual dev in the article). In retrospect, I don't think Perpetual's version wouldn't have succeeded even if they had managed to release it. The graphics they rendered would have required such a high-end machine, that the majority of casual gamers would have been unable to play. Their idea to have a team of players controlling the ship from the bridge would never have worked (it had already lost much of it's support when the 2d view was announced).

    Star Trek, is by nature, a difficult IP to develop a game of. Star Trek fans tend to be nit picky; they want every single thing their way and they want everything to adhere to canon. But, if game developers cater only to the fans, the game may not be fun for the other demographics, like gamers that play every new MMO and fans of all Sci-Fi series. So developers face the dilemma of making a game that will appeal to the "Trekkies" and still be fun for the widest possible range of players.

    When Cryptic acquired the license, it was a risky maneuver. The difficulty of making a Star Trek MMO had been a leading factor in the demise of Perpetual. They knew that if they spent too much time making the game, they could face the same money problems that Perpetual faced. It may not have even been a decision on their part to get the game out fast. It seems very likely that they were given the 2 year deadline by Atari. Another possibility is that they wouldn't have had the license long enough to spend 4 or 5 years developing the game. It's possible that CBS only gave them the license for a short while so that the same thing that happened with Perpetual wouldn't repeat itself. The last thing CBS would want is for the game to get stuck in development hell for another 4 or 5 years. So you guys shouldn't put all of the blame on Cryptic for the rushed development cycle.

    Cryptic, in my opinion, went down the right path for such a short development period. They worked on making a strong foundation that could easily be expanded and built upon in content patches. Instead of wasting time putting something in for everybody at launch, they decided to go with everybody being a Captain. The fact that they gave the game a good foundation, means that they left the option to go back and add these things we want in content patches. In my opinion, they did a dang good job for only 2 years of development. Because of their hard work, this game has the ability to turn into a really deep, amazing experience in the future.

    So to all of you that are mad at Cryptic, I implore you to stay and play the game for a few months, even if you're not happy. Either that, or leave for a few months and then come back to see what has changed. Cryptic has stated in this interview that they plan to flesh out the non-combat gameplay over the course of this year. It was hinted at in this dev chat(scroll down until you see major content patches highlighted), that Cryptic plans to release larger content patches every few months. So, either play and enjoy what we have, or come back in a few months to see how much the game has improved. Considering how fast Cryptic releases content patches, it shouldn't surprise you if you come back and find the game has vastly improved.

    To those that say this launch has been terrible
    You are just a very vocal minority. The majority of those that have played other MMOs from launch, know that this has been one of the smoothest releases ever. Even professional game reviewers have noted the smooth launch. From GameSpot's preliminary review: "At least our time has been relatively stable..." From Gamepro's preliminary review "After those initial hiccups, however, I've found the servers to be largely compliant when I log into them."

    To those that say Cryptic hasn't been listening to our suggestions for the game
    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=116225


    With all due respect, and your post deserves considerable respect, I think people need to get off the whole 'good launch/bad launch' ideology here because of a couple of really very significant differences between this games launch and prior MMO's. When looking at these differences, you simply cannot compare this launch to other MMO's from a consumer business practices perspective.

    Simply stated, many of the 'launch issues' revolved around deliverables promised to the consumer in exchange for commitment to purchase. While that might not seem like a big deal, in the marketplace, this consumer commitment is often more than enough for companies to recognize revenue, so it's significant.

    By failing on the deliverables, the 'launch issues' became more than hiccupe.

    Secondly, let's not forget that the vast majority of MMO's released are not what the market considers 'prime IP' games; they don't revolve around a central, established entertainment theme with a large (and in this case massive) consumer following.

    This places STO in a completely different category and the reasons are obvious. The draw to the IP is broader than "MMO audience', therefore the importance and risk become far greater. Inside the gaming industry, if you want to spot a MMO pariah, point at anyone involved with the SWG MMO, especially during the CE upgrade debacle.

    While the 'vocal minority' were the loudest to yell about the foolish changes made to SWG, the larger issues at play were simply that the game had been designed for the MMO player and not for the Star Wars fan. When SOE realized too late that the audience at that time of MMO fans wasn't large enough to sustain an IP of that size, they made several very unpopular tactical choices - today SWG is a ghost town.

    The point here is; a huge lesson, a set of huge lessons, was already learned by Lucas and Sony surrounding a large sci-fi IP and how dependent on not us good ole MMO players, but your average Sci-Fi fan consumer a mega IP is to survive as an MMO. These lessons, which would include learning from the now 12 year history of graphical MMO launches might include - wait til you are reasonably ready for mass consumers.

    Finally, and perhaps most importantly, is this is 2010. Spoon feeding MMO audiences the launch day failings legend is tired, weak excuses from an era where bandwidth was low, client server tech was new and MMO's were sparse and infrequent.

    In todays ecosystem the consumer is king - get it right or get out. And unfortunately for us, the patient albeit *blush* wordy MMO player, because this IP is too large to sustain on just us, when the consumers bail - which they will if this continues - we'll be the ones who lose.

    I'm not gonna spout background or fame - I'll just say I know a few things about this.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Vennie22 wrote:
    The only two things I want(right now) are respecialization and 5 more levels to grind for fun :) . I'm not kidding. At least give me the respecialization! :p

    The ETA on respecs seems to be in the next month or two. From Fidgit's Interview with Craig

    TC: I suspect this is something you've talked about to the community, because I can't imagine you haven't gotten a thousand forum posts about this, but where does Cryptic currently stand on letting players respec their characters at some point down the road?

    CZ: Definitely respec is on the way. We're working on getting that in, making sure that gets out in the next month or two. It is something we definitely want in the game. It'll always be available with microtransactions, but more importantly you will be able to earn the ability to respec your character ingame. So, definitely it's coming. One hundred percent.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    i think they have done a pretty amazing job considering the time they had to make it.

    i think we all agree the game is not yet finished (klingon pve being the main complaint) but i would rather play the game now in the knowledge it will get better than wait another year for a "complete" game. to the people who think the game needs another year, its simple, just come back in a year and see if its changed. they complain its not ready, yet they still want to play it now instead of waiting a year like they complain it should be delayed by.

    the level of detail in the game is quite impressive in my opinion and i have nothing but praise for the devs in what they have done. there are lots of things that need to improve and im sure they will but im happy to see the game grow.

    every person thinks this game should be something different and the devs could never make this to appeal to everybody. what one person thinks is an insignificant detail, others see are a game breaker.

    im having a blast with this game and really that's all i can ask for.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Again with the 'rushed launch' scenario. People need to do their homework. There was no rushed launch. The development timeline has been on a schedule set by Emmert to make 3 games from the one engine. Cryptic set it's own schedule and it's the reason that Infogrames (later to rebadge themselves Atari when they needed a image rebranding ) boiught them to become their in-house mmo development team ( which is to be Atari's only future business ).

    People seem to think that Cryptic can be excused because they were not given enough time for this. It's their own fault. They had an engine and they have shoehorned 3 different games into it because they said they can do it. I expect to be horrified with what their version of Neverwinter Nights will be on this engine next year.

    The 'they did ok in the time they had' argument drives me mad. They could have taken 5 years but without writing a new game engine from scratch ( which Emmert will never do as he firmly believes in tailor the game to fit what you alreadt have ) then it was never, ever going to be any different. The mechanics of the engine are what lets this game down.

    I've been playing Bioshock 2 and Mass Effect 2 this last week and the difference in production quality between those games and this is frankly embarrassing. ( regardless of single player/mmo status which has nothing to do with quality of work ).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    From what I can see, the majority of problems Cryptic seems to be having with launch stem from the game being to popular.

    *Server stability and lag issues -> more subscribers than they had prepared for
    *Pre-order retail keys not includign pre-order bonuses -> more people preordering htan the expected, not enough appropriate keys printed
    *Legitimate keys that didn't get their bonus -> not enough GMs to fix these problems in a timely fashion as to many people having the problem.

    Really, I mean, I don't think I've ever heard of another MMO that had 1,000,000 subscribers at launch. A lot of MMOs are lucky to get 1,000,000 active subscribers at any point in the lifetime of the game. So I can't really blame them for not predicting they'd have that many people to start with.

    The only other problems I can think of with the game (which are not just bugs)
    *Give us the option to turn off the limits on pitching our ships. While I can understand the reasoning behind it from a design standpoint, making sure the game's accessible to people who don't have a history of playing Wing Commander and Descent, or have poor spacial awareness, it'd be nice if we could give ourselves that full y-axis freedom because, well.... I wanna do a barrel roll! :D (but seriously, it just doesn't feel much like open space combat right now)
    *the non-combat mission need ALOT of work. Right now they're really just pointless time sinks. Walk from point A, to point B, to point C, to point D, and click on something at each point. Ok, done. Give us some actual puzzles to figure out (as opposed to we scan something and our science officer figures out the mystery for us) or some mini-games to challenge us on those missions. My personal suggestion would be to find some of the writers who worked for Sierra during the Glory days of Quest games.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Before anybody can call me a "Cryptic Fanboy", I'd like to say that this is the first Cryptic designed game I've ever played and that I'm disappointed by some of the things in the game myself. However, despite that, I'd like to give all of those that are mad at Cryptic a new perspective on the situation. I know I'm not the first person to start a thread about this and many of the others have given extremely good points on the matter. I'd just like to supplement what they have already talked about.

    I, like many of you, have been following this game since it was being designed by Perpetual. When I first learned about it's development, I was very excited by the prospect. Some of the features they had talked about, like their idea to let a team of people fly the ship, sounded amazing. The graphics they had rendered were stunningly beautiful. But, in the end, the game played a major part in Perpetual's demise. Perpetual faced the same problems that Cryptic has (I can't confirm if that was a real Perpetual dev in the article). In retrospect, I don't think Perpetual's version wouldn't have succeeded even if they had managed to release it. The graphics they rendered would have required such a high-end machine, that the majority of casual gamers would have been unable to play. Their idea to have a team of players controlling the ship from the bridge would never have worked (it had already lost much of it's support when the 2d view was announced).

    Star Trek, is by nature, a difficult IP to develop a game of. Star Trek fans tend to be nit picky; they want every single thing their way and they want everything to adhere to canon. But, if game developers cater only to the fans, the game may not be fun for the other demographics, like gamers that play every new MMO and fans of all Sci-Fi series. So developers face the dilemma of making a game that will appeal to the "Trekkies" and still be fun for the widest possible range of players.

    When Cryptic acquired the license, it was a risky maneuver. The difficulty of making a Star Trek MMO had been a leading factor in the demise of Perpetual. They knew that if they spent too much time making the game, they could face the same money problems that Perpetual faced. It may not have even been a decision on their part to get the game out fast. It seems very likely that they were given the 2 year deadline by Atari. Another possibility is that they wouldn't have had the license long enough to spend 4 or 5 years developing the game. It's possible that CBS only gave them the license for a short while so that the same thing that happened with Perpetual wouldn't repeat itself. The last thing CBS would want is for the game to get stuck in development hell for another 4 or 5 years. So you guys shouldn't put all of the blame on Cryptic for the rushed development cycle.

    Cryptic, in my opinion, went down the right path for such a short development period. They worked on making a strong foundation that could easily be expanded and built upon in content patches. Instead of wasting time putting something in for everybody at launch, they decided to go with everybody being a Captain. The fact that they gave the game a good foundation, means that they left the option to go back and add these things we want in content patches. In my opinion, they did a dang good job for only 2 years of development. Because of their hard work, this game has the ability to turn into a really deep, amazing experience in the future.

    So to all of you that are mad at Cryptic, I implore you to stay and play the game for a few months, even if you're not happy. Either that, or leave for a few months and then come back to see what has changed. Cryptic has stated in this interview that they plan to flesh out the non-combat gameplay over the course of this year. It was hinted at in this dev chat(scroll down until you see major content patches highlighted), that Cryptic plans to release larger content patches every few months. So, either play and enjoy what we have, or come back in a few months to see how much the game has improved. Considering how fast Cryptic releases content patches, it shouldn't surprise you if you come back and find the game has vastly improved.

    To those that say this launch has been terrible
    You are just a very vocal minority. The majority of those that have played other MMOs from launch, know that this has been one of the smoothest releases ever. Even professional game reviewers have noted the smooth launch. From GameSpot's preliminary review: "At least our time has been relatively stable..." From Gamepro's preliminary review "After those initial hiccups, however, I've found the servers to be largely compliant when I log into them."

    To those that say Cryptic hasn't been listening to our suggestions for the game
    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=116225

    Well, good post OP;

    but still...

    people would be more inclined to agree WHEN THEY CAN GET INTO THE GAME AND PLAY...

    I am STILL stuck in the launcher unable to authenticate since the server is "back up"!!! (so they said)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The real problem is they simply reused an existing engine that is VERY outdated. Time to come up with a new engine for 2010.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    OP you have made a well-thought and well-written post. Still, I feel that you use so many assumptions in your arguement that you fail to succeed in defending Cryptic. To that end your assumptions are all supportive of Cryptic and that is a tad suspicious in that it leads me to conclude your goal was to defend the game and its developer rather than examine the facts at hand and arrive at a reasonable conclusion.

    The facts are the game is not finished. It was clearly rushed into publication with many systems unfinished, buggy or working badly if at all. Memory Alpha jumps to mind. Server stability and server-side lag. The log-in queues that have appeared and disappeared as if by magic. A skill system that was clearly designed around a non-skill cap policy that has since been limited by a cap but it has not changed nor is a respec in the game now. If they wait 2 months for a respec very few of us will care, we will cancel.

    If I buy a car without a working radio, when I was promised a 10 speaker Bose premiere system, should I just be reasonable and wait 2-6 months for them to fix it? No! I take it back and demand that they deliver on their promises or I get my money back. Cryptic relies on its detachment and distance the internet affords them to produced flawed products. They have the bulk of our money. I don't think they care if we are happy.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Feor wrote: »
    Really, I mean, I don't think I've ever heard of another MMO that had 1,000,000 subscribers at launch. A lot of MMOs are lucky to get 1,000,000 active subscribers at any point in the lifetime of the game. So I can't really blame them for not predicting they'd have that many people to start with.

    Actually, that 1 million figure is the number of accounts registered on the forums, not the number of people playing the game. I'd guess it's in the 300k to 500k range, though I could be wrong.
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