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Huge interiors?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I don't get why the interiors a huge, even on the Enterprise D which was easily the most spacious of the Star Trek ships it still seemed like a ship, the interiors on this game feel like massive halls.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ceilings have to be high for the camera angle.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I believe a Cryptic dev said it had something to do with the third-person camera getting stuck in smaller ship interiors but unfortunately I can't find the link. I really hope it's something they're working on fixing because right now it is pretty ridiculous.

    Edit: I can't spell.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The bridges on any star trek show or movie where kept that size so that you could get the entire bridge on camera and still know who is who and also keep your budget low. In STO you can invite many of your friends over plus your bridge crew AND all at the same you all need to have your camera angles work. if the ceilings where a lot lower and the walls closer together you wouldn't be able to have many people over and when you did no one could see since the camera view had no where to go other then directly behind your butt.
    It just comes down to game logistics.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    They also mentioned it won't be changed. They went for a cartoony, abstract sizes look and it would probably be too much work to change it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Basic third-person content development favors larger-than-normal sizes for both camera and aesthetics reasons.

    A narrow camera from cramped halls would only be exacerbated by 15 Ensigns asking where Sulu is...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Lukas2409 wrote:
    I don't get why the interiors a huge, even on the Enterprise D which was easily the most spacious of the Star Trek ships it still seemed like a ship, the interiors on this game feel like massive halls.


    There was an excuse made about 3D scale and other one made about not feeling claustrophobic....but since I have helped develop three MMO's I can pretty much tell you the excuses are BS.

    They are huge because it they simply didn't take the time to go back in a rescale and since we have things that haven't been addressed since beta one, don't hold your breath waiting for them to fix it.

    I'm not hating, I play the hell out of this game...it's just many of us are really getting tired of the UNTREK lack of polish.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Basic third-person content development favors larger-than-normal sizes for both camera and aesthetics reasons.

    A narrow camera from cramped halls would only be exacerbated by 15 Ensigns asking where Sulu is...

    They can still scale down by a factor of two and not have that issue.....and if Cryptic says they can't I would be more than happy to fly to their studios and show them how.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Well Cryptic is famous for their mediocrity. I was hoping STO would be their first truly ambitious work. The IP alone has almost limitless potential... possibilities. It's a shame they had to go for the typical boring kill and retrieve style missions and lackluster story.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I have helped develop three MMO's

    Which MMOs? And in what capacity did you help? Not that I'm doubting you.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ok, the whining about the scars and tattoos was pushing it, but now interior space?!


    Is there anything you people won't complain about LOL ? :eek:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Which MMOs? And in what capacity did you help? Not that I'm doubting you.


    I was a wire frame modeler and texture artist for Asherons Call, and Asherons Call II, I was also a quest designer for Earth And Beyond. I now happily develop enterprise software for the healthcare Industry, as do many other former game developers
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I really liked AC2
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Gunfugue wrote:
    I really liked AC2

    I let you in on a secret... I liked AC2 as well, it had an incredible team ( many of which went on to build hugely successful MMO's....if I'm not mistaken there are a couple AC II folks on CO and STO) that was saddled with incompetent management, and a clueless publisher.

    I can say that now since I will never ever return to the Industry. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I'm guessing partly camera and I seem to remember hearing that in the alpha's Species 8472 was bloody gigantic. if they'd only made areas you were going to encounter them bigger to accomodate it'd have been a tell tale.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I was a wire frame modeler and texture artist for Asherons Call, and Asherons Call II, I was also a quest designer for Earth And Beyond. I now happily develop enterprise software for the healthcare Industry, as do many other former game developers

    Isn't that interesting... I never played AC or AC2, but EnB was the single best MMO ever. And I have to say the quests on EnB were half the fun.

    But what's more interesting is that I'm currently developing training and enterprise software for the healthcare industry... Go figure...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    They can still scale down by a factor of two and not have that issue.....and if Cryptic says they can't I would be more than happy to fly to their studios and show them how.
    There's also a psychological factor for creating larger game spaces - it gives the feeling of a much larger universe.

    Using actually sizes in third person usually results in players feeling "cramped" and "claustrophobic." (Both were common complaints lodge against the KOTOR franchise during indoor sections.

    That and they chose to have cameras bounded by the interior of a structure (rather than having dynamically disappearing architecture or a fixed isometric viewpoint).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I let you in on a secret... I liked AC2 as well, it had an incredible team ( many of which went on to build hugely successful MMO's....if I'm not mistaken there are a couple AC II folks on CO and STO) that was saddled with incompetent management, and a clueless publisher.

    I can say that now since I will never ever return to the Industry. :)

    Don't matter where you work or who you work for, incompetent management and high churn of same is what we all have to live with. Any truly decent manager is kicked upstairs/out the door for going against the incompetent majority.

    Do I sound bitter ? :)

    STO - I've not played WoW since it came out and I am still enjoying the game BUT I do think there's so much more potetential. Just hope I don't have to buy the product of that potential in the C-Store ...

    EDIT: On-topic, not really bothered about the interiors so much. Seems there are probably a few more areas more in need of improvement than the size of the environment.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Scaling wouldn't be that hard, though, especially not when Cryptic is planning on doing more with ship interiors and what we have now are placeholders anyway.

    I'm inclined to believe that their in-game camera is not equipped for small spaces. It already clips through walls on "beam out" cinematics on certain parts of the bridge and I'm inclined there WOULD be more issues with a larger bridge.

    If you want to accuse them of "laziness", the laziness is not in rescaling the bridge (which could be done in a matter of minutes) but in adjusting/improving the camera architecture in the game engine, which could be a massive undertaking.

    My personal attitude is this: Combat ready scenarios and maps need to be oversized, in general.

    But I think it would be doable, desirable and refreshingly different if our ship interiors (at least the bridges) didn't use the standard 3rd person camera but a series of fixed cameras, "Resident Evil" style. It might be disorienting if there are too many (ie. more than three or so) but they could be set cameras with a zoom and pivot.

    In the long run, I think that type of functionality would add a lot to special, claustrophobic maps. (Ie. You could have a mission component in a very tight space like a runabout or sickbay.) Keep hallways and cargobays and starbases oversized and third person. Anywhere you'd use sprint is a place too big for that kind of camera trick, I'd think, or at least a place where you'd want fewer cameras (with a wider pivot range).

    But just because WoW uses third person and drastically oversized environments doesn't mean STO needs to mimick that. I think it would actually add a lot to STO if they did shift indoor maps at least to fixed camera scenarios. It'd be more cinematic and break some of the Champions/City of Heroes comparisons.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Vaneshi wrote:
    I'm guessing partly camera and I seem to remember hearing that in the alpha's Species 8472 was bloody gigantic. if they'd only made areas you were going to encounter them bigger to accomodate it'd have been a tell tale.

    Camera is a factor but not to the scale that they made it, And none of the models for Species 8472 are that big.

    If they would reduce door heights and bring some of the stretched out articles in, it would go a long way to fixing the scale issues. They could also box in a couple areas of bridges to add a ready room and a conference room and solve the Warehouse size Bridge Issue. It just amazes me that folks are so gullible that they will accept the excuse that has been given, we have been playing MMO's for well over Ten years, scale is slightly off in other games yes, but not to the extreme it is in STO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    There's also a psychological factor for creating larger game spaces - it gives the feeling of a much larger universe.

    Unless it's taken to the extreme like it is here and you get the Tom Thumb feeling
    Using actually sizes in third person usually results in players feeling "cramped" and "claustrophobic." (Both were common complaints lodge against the KOTOR franchise during indoor sections.


    Which was a case of extreme in the other direction...A direction I might add that Bioware will not be pursuing in SW:TOR. As I said MMO's that were created six or seven years ago dealt with this and STO can too.

    That and they chose to have cameras bounded by the interior of a structure (rather than having dynamically disappearing architecture or a fixed isometric viewpoint).

    Right and what other MMO does this? Being different isn't always a good thing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    SWG had a space interior part of the game and their corridors, bridges, and rooms inside space ships were scaled to size of the characters. I do not visit my bridge because I cannot stand the fact that I can fly a shuttle through there.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    yeah, they wouldn't even need to make it totaly accurate, i could see if perhaps they wanted the ceiling to be a little high, but theres like.. 20 square feet of empty space just sitting there between the captains chair and the nearest console :eek:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Captain: "Helm Plot a Course for Bajor."
    Captain: "HELM PLOT A COURSE FOR BAJOR!"
    'Captain Pulls out a megaphone: "HELM PLOT A COURSE FOR BAJOR!!!!!!"
    'Fed up the Captain Taps his communicator: 'Helm this is the Captain, please look behind you, (Captain waves and looks like a little figure in the distance) Please set a course for Bajor. Thank you."
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    There's a simple reason why everything is absolutely so huge and wide:

    It's to compensate for their absolutely TRIBBLE, stupid, insultingly bad, incompetent, plain outright dumb AI and this little thing we'd like to have called 'pathfinding'.

    I have seen my BOs get stuck on EVERYTHING, ranging from the simplest ankle high rock, to trees, crates, pieces of debris, scenery, those stupid things that stick out of nearly every doorway, etc etc etc.

    THAT is what the absurdly larger corridors are intended to prevent - your AI getting hung up on things. As it is it doesn't even come CLOSE to working right.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    one of my BOs got stuck on a slight incline one
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    :theres one cure... well maybe 2..... give us first person view option.. and maybe the option to change camera angle :D

    or am I being to clever :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    You can actually get things to look relatively to scale - if you choose an Alien and make them maximum height doors and hallways are suddenly to scale.

    Of course, then all the people are half your height, and all the furniture is itty bitty. But it's an option.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    :theres one cure... well maybe 2..... give us first person view option.. and maybe the option to change camera angle :D

    or am I being to clever :rolleyes:

    too clever
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