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Why am I pitch limied in space?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Its annoying to find enemies above or below you and then you find out your pitch is limited.

I hit the 'Up" key and the ship goes to a certain point then hits a invisible wall, how is that happening in space? Sometimes I have to even out, speed up, get Km's away from a target and then turn around for a better approach.

Jim
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    We have been complaining about this since Closed Beta and I highly doubt Cryptic will pull their collective heads out of their a$$3s and give is true maneuvering.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cryptic could take a few pointers from space flight in X3 which was simulated wonderfully imo.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The game is based off the original TV series and other shows. In most of the shows, the ships were oriented with an up and down. This made sense for TV and makes sense with the type of tactics they went with for STO.

    Besides, people now a days are stupid. They would get lost and rage quit before the tutorial was over with full 3d flight.

    Is it the best representation of space flight? No it is not. Is it a great representation of ST for the TV series? Yes it is. I have no problem with it because the game is still fun for me as is.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Skylan wrote:
    Is it a great representation of ST for the 1960's low budget TV series? Yes it is.

    Fixed.

    The reason likely is, the engine they used doesn't allow it for one optimization/mathematical reason or another - at least w/o heavy development work. But this part was a good proc of them limiting it so horribly:
    Skylan wrote:
    Besides, people now a days are stupid. They would get lost and rage quit before the tutorial was over with full 3d flight.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    corbaer wrote:
    The reason likely is, the engine they used doesn't allow it for one optimization/mathematical reason or another - at least w/o heavy development work. But this part was a good proc of them limiting it so horribly:

    No. Just no. There isn't even a way that a modern 3D engine could possibly need to restrict pitch, you would need a DooM era engine for that to make sense. The reason is so that nubcakes don't fly themselves upside down and get lost. Humans evolved to orient and navigate on a plane under the effects of gravity, not in 3D flight (this is why pilots often fly into the ground when in instrument only flight).

    They do need to fix some stuff like increasing the pitch rate some so we don't have to do the corkscrew of death, and increasing canon arcs in the vertical.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    theCorvus wrote:
    No. Just no. There isn't even a way that a modern 3D engine could possibly need to restrict pitch, you would need a DooM era engine for that to make sense. The reason is so that nubcakes don't fly themselves upside down and get lost. Humans evolved to orient and navigate on a plane under the effects of gravity, not in 3D flight (this is why pilots often fly into the ground when in instrument only flight).

    :rolleyes: I'll grant you your opinion... but your signature you do not live up to.

    /facepalm

    EDIT: Everyone in my CS lab is here working on our Masters Project (3D engine)... chuckling. We just named an easter egg theCorvus. Thanks for the laugh mate.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    bump

    pitch and roll. lets have em ;p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I think this problem could be solved by a seperate command that would enable the said starship move virtically up or down. This action would not be quick, so you couldn't really call it evasive manovers. But if there is a tight little spot you are trying to pilot your ship trough, this might be helpfull.

    But this is just a thought off the top of my head.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Jim1973 wrote: »
    Its annoying to find enemies above or below you and then you find out your pitch is limited.

    I hit the 'Up" key and the ship goes to a certain point then hits a invisible wall, how is that happening in space? Sometimes I have to even out, speed up, get Km's away from a target and then turn around for a better approach.

    Jim

    As more and more reviews point to this as a a 'casual' MMO for the 'casual' player, it would seem that the typical casual player in STO would most likely get confused with full 3-D movement of a spacecraft.

    It seems STO is geared towards keeping it simple for a certain type of player out there who is not into hardcore gaming or willing to invest a lot of time in learning and perfecting such things.

    Trouble is that the more hardered or demanding MMO players out there has been pushed to the side by Cryptic as far as such features are concerned.

    This is clearly evident throughout STO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    corbaer wrote:
    :rolleyes: I'll grant you your opinion... but your signature you do not live up to.

    /facepalm

    EDIT: Everyone in my CS lab is here working on our Masters Project (3D engine)... chuckling. We just named an easter egg theCorvus. Thanks for the laugh mate.

    Allowing full 3d movement isn't hard, games 20 years ago managed this, clamping your pitch and relative orientation to the plane of the world is actually marginally harder. And yes, I've written 3d engines before. It's not a technical issue, it's a design choice. Not necessarily a bad one but one that wasn't dealt with properly.

    The problem isn't so much the lack of pitch, it's that the zones aren't designed with this in mind, and getting a good angle of attack in an escort with cannons can be impossible, that drives me nuts. It's like their content designers were working from a different GDD than their technical guys.

    Really any model of flight, atmospheric, authentic space, full 3d or this can work, but when you get into a mission where the plane of the mission is on a 50 degree slant and you cannot point your forward guns at something that shows a disconnect between how the level design minions thought the game would work, and how it actually works. Either they should let us move in full 3d or flatten and reorient a lot of their missions.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I'll just copy and paste my reply from another thread
    malize wrote: »
    There is really no good reason a ST ship should not be able to do a loop...in fact there is no good real reason they have to follow an aircraft propulsion flight model in regards to the actual orientation of the craft relative to its absolute vector in space.

    Face it, the reality is that whatever technobabble you invent to explain why the Trek ships don't have to flip-ship to apply reverse thrust is the same technobabble that would pretty much demand that the ships be able to make complete loops in any fashion you would want (i.e., "Set heading 355 mark 90"...which every good Trek fan knows is a relative heading based off two 360 circles, the first horizontal the second vertical.)


    There is a lot of complex physics that Cryptic basically arcades out because this is suppose to be a fun game...not an experiment in real life space travel. However, having said that...the ships should at least be able to perform vertical loops.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    corbaer wrote:
    :rolleyes: I'll grant you your opinion... but your signature you do not live up to.

    /facepalm

    EDIT: Everyone in my CS lab is here working on our Masters Project (3D engine)... chuckling. We just named an easter egg theCorvus. Thanks for the laugh mate.

    If you think it is an engine issue you are going to fail that Masters project. I have a CS degree mate, please explain to me why anyone in this day and age would design an engine that needed to pitch limit movement*? Making a basic 3D engine that allows full 3D movement is a back of the text problem.

    Perhaps you should take some human perception psych classes to understand the actual reason.

    * I played games in 1995 that had full 3D flight and shadowed polygons.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    We have had flight sims for years with all the correct flight mechanics. We even had Helicopter sims that could roll. If games I played 20 years ago could do this than what cryptic slammed together on an overnite bender should be able to do likewise.

    There are more important things that need to be addressed but this should be on the list somewhere to have fixed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    seriously, this is star trek, you don't do rolls unless your the defiant, and even then if your inertial dampeners are offline your going to have a massive problem. this may be a massive issue to you, but to most people this is a non-issue.
    rolls be damned, go back to ace combat.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    theCorvus wrote:
    (this is why pilots often fly into the ground when in instrument only flight)

    Exactly how often is that? Most commercial flights are conducted by IFR.

    I hereby ban the use of analogies on these forums.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Exactly how often is that? Most commercial flights are conducted by IFR.

    I hereby ban the use of analogies on these forums.

    surprisingly common. its called a SIMULATOR.
    I hereby ban the use of reasoning on these forums.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Talking real life here, guy. I'm miles away from this whiny rant about "me wanty fly upsy-downsy".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I agree. This is pretty annoying.
    However, there have only been a few times where I was caught in a situation where I had to do this.
    Most of the time, the enemies were placed in a more or less convenient plane for you to access.
    Like previous posters have suggested, I think this is by design, to prevent people from getting too far off track.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kratos23 wrote: »
    Cryptic could take a few pointers from space flight in X3 which was simulated wonderfully imo.

    Yeah... with a complete lack of newtonian physics governing the ship it was SO accurate....

    /SARCASM off
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    In before people blame CO, even though CO's engine allowed you to move in three dimensions with no problem.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I agree, this needs to be changed. The only fix I have found is to corkscrew my way up, in the meantime, a bunch of klingons who were destined to have been sucking vacuum already get a few more minutes of life. That's just not right.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I agree we need to be able to move in all directions I mean voyager rolled in one of the episodes.

    The truth of it maybe that it's a limitation in the engine it's self though but lets hope that is not the case.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Because that's how space-time works. it's been proven .
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    As far as I can see there are two main problems with full rotation, the first is that your controls would be reversed once the ship gets beyond a certain angle, this could be fixed by having the view fixed behind your ship but then you can say goodbye to all the target look at stuff.
    The second problem is that it would make it eaiser for the gold farmer to make bots to farm gold with, this is the same reason why I suspect they don't want to implement an auto fire on all guns as this too will make it much easier to bot.
    It would not suprise me if some of the most vocal people calling for these changes were not just gold farmers tbh.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    So the players have to suffer the TRIBBLE limitation due to gold farmers? ...


    I just wish we could go straight up and down ... don't really care about doing loops.



    WHY CAN'T WE GO UP AND DOWN ... WTF!!?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Its not a 3d engine what we have is atomespheric flight .. think jetpacks in swg or flying mounts in wow. Its a virtual 3d or "fake" 3d picture your ship on a stick that it can move up and down along also picture that stick attched to the game world at the floor and it slides back forth side to side or diagonal combine the 2 axis and boom fake 3d. There is no third axis. LOL @ the poster above me saying its couse of bots what a lame excuse. Its like saying im not gonna buy a mustang cause thiefs like to steal them.
    QUIT MAKEING EXCUSES FOR CRYPTICS **** POOR PERFORMANCE
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I'm all for fixing this. Get rid of the pitch limitation and let us orient our ships however we like. It would add a lot of depth to the battles.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Stinkybudz wrote:
    Its not a 3d engine what we have is atomespheric flight .. think jetpacks in swg or flying mounts in wow. Its a virtual 3d or "fake" 3d picture your ship on a stick that it can move up and down along also picture that stick attched to the game world at the floor and it slides back forth side to side or diagonal combine the 2 axis and boom fake 3d. There is no third axis. LOL @ the poster above me saying its couse of bots what a lame excuse. Its like saying im not gonna buy a mustang cause thiefs like to steal them.
    QUIT MAKEING EXCUSES FOR CRYPTICS **** POOR PERFORMANCE

    There is a 3rd axis. the developers said that space is designed to work as it is. This is to keep it in line with the movies/book/s tv series. The vast majority of ships, fly and fight exactly as you see them in game.

    The only excetion really being the defiant, but that was just a one off.

    Theyve come out and said multiple times, that right from the conept design stage, they did not want to make this game into a dogfight.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I don't even care about doing barrel rolls. I just want to be able to fricken move up and down.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I don't want to live in a world where you can't pitch Limeys into space.
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