Not that I'm begging to have to re-supply, but I think photon torpedoes should be more powerful but limited in supply so that you have to make the call whether to use one or not.
I remember the dilemma from the TV shows. Maybe it was just TOS where the supply was limited?
Not that I'm begging to have to re-supply, but I think photon torpedoes should be more powerful but limited in supply so that you have to make the call whether to use one or not.
I remember the dilemma from the TV shows. Maybe it was just TOS where the supply was limited?
Voyager definantly mentioned it, not sure if it really came up that often to be honest though.
I don't remember it really being an issue with TNG ( course it carried a compliment of around 250 torpedoes ) or DS9 (prolly didn't have 250, but prolly more than the Connie). The other big thing I think is in the shows, except for Voyager, alot of 'boring' stuff happens off-camera. And well, I personally wouldn't want to deal with that [it's just a time tax that's not much fun].
The other big thing I think is in the shows, except for Voyager, alot of 'boring' stuff happens off-camera. And well, I personally wouldn't want to deal with that [it's just a time tax that's not much fun].
A lot of the "boring stuff" happens off camera in STO as well. Every time you save someone and beam them to your ship you aren't expected to take those people to the nearest Starbase. It's just expected to have happened at some point in your journey to the next adventure. If that's not the case I've got several dozen people running around on my 50 person Escort.
A lot of the "boring stuff" happens off camera in STO as well. Every time you save someone and beam them to your ship you aren't expected to take those people to the nearest Starbase. It's just expected to have happened at some point in your journey to the next adventure. If that's not the case I've got several dozen people running around on my 50 person Escort.
And half of them are Undine infilitrators. You're going to lose control of your ship soon!
There must be some issue with torpedo replication. Like in Bridge Commander - Starbase was not able to replicate quantum / phased plasma torps, and you got them restocked only when a transport carried them. Also on DS9 couldn't replicate torps, as they had 5 of them in 1st episode.
Remember Star Trek VI? Spock was counting torps, to prove that Kirk couldn't fire on Gowron's ship. If torps would be easily replicated they would not have to count, as noone would believe them "Yeah, you have full load, but you just replicated few"
in trek canon you could not replicate 'complex' items such as torpedo's and phasers..
however, given that this is 30 years in the future technology could have advanced to the point where you could replicate torps..
so using that as an excuse they could put in 'limits' on how many torpedo's you have, and force you to replicate some.. but i'm not sure what 'fun' factor this would contribute to gameplay.
Remember Star Trek VI? Spock was counting torps, to prove that Kirk couldn't fire on Gowron's ship. If torps would be easily replicated they would not have to count, as noone would believe them "Yeah, you have full load, but you just replicated few"
Replicator technology was not in use during Kirk's official time, so that thought is pointless..
And, rather sadly, anything not in a TV show or movie does not have to be considered canon by any other source (where's my Hazard Team?), and even some things from the TV show (Captains on away teams anyone?).
I cannot believe it. I do *NOT* believe that a limit on torpoedos should be imparted simply to increase 'immersion' or 'realism'. This is a game. Games cannot be realistic to the letter by nature.
what about pressed latnium or what ever it is called? You know I had to say it :P
Latinum can't be replicated, hence the reason why it's so valuable.
Phasers can be created by replicators, and has been done so a number of times in the series. Remember Gul Dukats hidden security defences on DS9? Where the replicators created auto-firing phaser turrets.
When you have replicators, you don't run out of anything. As long as you have energy, you have whatever you want.
Which gives insight in to the economics of Star Trek, for the Federation energy is money. Civillians can't just teleport around, replicators aren't 100% perfect in their matter/energy conversion which also applies to reclamation of waste. You always loose something in the/;convsion. It'd also depend on how complex/dense something is as to how easily it was to replicate.
So how many photon torpedoes you have is how big your M/AM reactor is, how much spare capacity it has AND how much fuel you've left (Anti-matter and Dueterium) none of which is infinite. It is unlikley a tiny little escort would be able to resupply itself purley from replicators (excluding crew, which apparently hump like bunnies).
Theoretically the big warp core (reactor) of the Exploration class would allow them to be self sufficient for a very long time; or a very short amount of time supporting and resupplying flock of escorts.
In the sprint engagements STO currently has it wouldn't be an issue. But if you were in a long raid type battle limited ammunition would give a reason to bring resupply ships with you.
Latinum can't be replicated, hence the reason why it's so valuable.
Actually it can be, if its molecular structure can be scanned it can be replicated, that's how it works. However the worth of the Latinum is less than the energy cost to replicate it. So whilst you can do it it's pretty pointless to do so other than for the giggles (so that's what cadets spend their energy ration on proberbly, synthahol and fake latinum).
Not that I'm begging to have to re-supply, but I think photon torpedoes should be more powerful but limited in supply so that you have to make the call whether to use one or not.
I remember the dilemma from the TV shows. Maybe it was just TOS where the supply was limited?
The idea of resupplying does make one think. I personally "pray and spray" my torps knowing full well im not going to run out. Not the best policy for a responsible captian i know but....lol.
Im not adverse to having a limit. would definitely make me think twice and wait for the shields to drop before i press my number 2 key!
having said that i would also want a respectable compliment of torpedos per tier ship or even purchase them to put in a "Ships" Cargohold / inventory,
Latinum can't be replicated, hence the reason why it's so valuable.
Phasers can be created by replicators, and has been done so a number of times in the series. Remember Gul Dukats hidden security defences on DS9? Where the replicators created auto-firing phaser turrets.
I thought it was Rom who created auto replicating mines to block the wormhole.
Anyways, the thing I love about "Anarchy Online" was that you had to be conscience about your ammo, which most MMOs dont worry (especially unlimited arrows).
I like the idea of limited torpedos myself, and like someone said make them more powerful but limited per ship class. That way it does add some tactic into space battles. At the moment, i just click and spam fire all weapons...
Anyways, the thing I love about "Anarchy Online" was that you had to be conscience about your ammo, which most MMOs dont worry (especially unlimited arrows).
It's the most wonderful feeling, in EVE, to sit there like a lumox with all your guns/launchers dry and not a round of ammo left in the hold. Never have I been so happy to see a jet can
Actually it can be, if its molecular structure can be scanned it can be replicated, that's how it works. However the worth of the Latinum is less than the energy cost to replicate it. So whilst you can do it it's pretty pointless to do so other than for the giggles (so that's what cadets spend their energy ration on proberbly, synthahol and fake latinum).
Where do you get this whole concept of energy ration?
Is this something you made up or do you have anything backing it up?
I'd rather not have to worry about ammo and have to tediously replenish it everytime it ran out. It was assumed to be in the background in the TV shows, so it should be assumed here too. Just RP that every time you visit Earthdock or K-7, your torpedo supply is replenished.
The only time I remember it being an issue in the TV series was in Voyager and that was because they were obviously quite far from a Federation starbase, so had to watch their supply. Otherwise, it's not something ships have to worry about I don't think and I don't want to have to worry about it in game. It's just tedious.
Where do you get this whole concept of energy ration?
Is this something you made up or do you have anything backing it up?
Sikso, Benjamin talking to his farther in a DS9 episode with I think Dax could be Ezri but more likley Jadzia present (it's one of the Earth set ones). His farther comments that be blew his entire months energy alotment on transporting home every night during his first week at the academy due to home sickness.
I cannot believe it. I do *NOT* believe that a limit on torpoedos should be imparted simply to increase 'immersion' or 'realism'. This is a game. Games cannot be realistic to the letter by nature.
Cryptic: Don't be stupid and add a pedo limit
Mr. Quinnell: this game is aimed primarily at a segment who are very into explaining and understanding everything. For us, to varying degrees, things that increase the "realism" also increase the enjoyment.
OT: I wouldn't mind some kind of limit, but make it a reasonably large number. Trek canon has established that torpedoes can't simply be replicated, clearly implying that there's something in them that prevents it. But make it a large enough number that it wouldn't even come up unless you went an unusually long time between dockings at places that can replenish them, or were spraying them willy-nilly during a prolonged fight. They'd have to show the number, but it could be in the bottom corner of the icon, like any other power with "charges".
I suppose larger ships could carry more "shells", all reloading automatically whenever I am at a suitable location. I like the little bit of realism it would add, but it's not the Commanding Officer's job to see that ship's stores are replenished.
Just thought of a problem: would the different torpedo launchers share the same inventory? Shouldn't "Standard" torpedoes be different from "Mark I", etc.? I shouldn't be able to double my load by using up my Mark I supply, then swapping my original Standard launcher back in.
Yet that makes no sense. If I can only carry, say, 250 torpedoes, I should be able to pull another 250 out of my cover when I switch launchers. But if they share the same inventory, why do different models do different damage?
Where do you get this whole concept of energy ration?
Is this something you made up or do you have anything backing it up?
Voyager limits replicator rations and holodeck time due to lack of energy (not sure what material is used possibly duterium?)
In an episode I Don't know the name but they are searching for more and come across the planet of liquid life forms, land in it and gives them some DNA to take solid form.
in trek canon you could not replicate 'complex' items such as torpedo's and phasers..
however, given that this is 30 years in the future technology could have advanced to the point where you could replicate torps..
so using that as an excuse they could put in 'limits' on how many torpedo's you have, and force you to replicate some.. but i'm not sure what 'fun' factor this would contribute to gameplay.
Antimatter. It can't be replicated. According to the TNG Tech manual larger starships contain what amounts of minature particle accelerators so in an emergency they can produce some, but it's highly inefficient (one assumes it consumes more power than the antimatter would generate) but if your 20+ years from the nearest starbase at sublight or ten min at warp 5.... your going to want warp drive working no matter the cost, the ship has enough atmosphere to survive that long without life support.
And photons are apparently a matter/antimatter explosive; a tiny wee small one all things considered as if it were full of antimatter it'd probably be enough to blow a small planetoid like Pluto in chunks. So you can replicate everything but the second bit of the warhead.
Again, tech manual, the Federation has industrial sized antimatter 'refineries' which are vastly more efficient than the shipboard units.
In DS9 I don't think they ever specifically said the replicating mines were matter/anti-matter based. Could have been something equally bangy but not as fiddly to replicate.
Voyager limits replicator rations and holodeck time due to lack of energy (not sure what material is used possibly duterium?)
In an episode I Don't know the name but they are searching for more and come across the planet of liquid life forms, land in it and gives them some DNA to take solid form.
Dueterium. They were running out of it. Basically it's another component needed in maintaining a M/AM reaction... it also fuels the fusion reactors which provide secondary power, sublight drive and such. So a starship would burn great gobs of it when going hell for leather accross a quadrant (probably with "Alpha Quadrant or bust!" on the side knowing Janeway).
Episode is called Demon, the nickname of a Class Y world.
in trek canon you could not replicate 'complex' items such as torpedo's and phasers..
however, given that this is 30 years in the future technology could have advanced to the point where you could replicate torps..
so using that as an excuse they could put in 'limits' on how many torpedo's you have, and force you to replicate some.. but i'm not sure what 'fun' factor this would contribute to gameplay.
I prefer to think that modern torpedoes are sufficiently more complex that they remain unreplicatable...
...you could replicate older 'simpler' torpedoes perhaps sure... but if you want the modern ones with the advanced guidance systems with the micro force field projectors to create a momentary "shaped charge" -insert additional technobabble- then you're going to have to wait for the manufactured components to arrive from the Forge World on Ryza... er wait... wrong IP
In DS9 I don't think they ever specifically said the replicating mines were matter/anti-matter based. Could have been something equally bangy but not as fiddly to replicate.
Really doesn't matter. My love for DS9 aside... and canon aside...
...self replicating mines is utter BS. Conservation of Energy anyone?
Where does the power to replicate a mine come from? "Silly Darmak, the Mine has a battery or some such with enough energy to replicate the new mine!"
Cool, so where does it get the energy to replicate the energy required for the battery of the replicated mine to replicate the next mine? "Sorry, you lost me."
Did you see how many torps they carried in the list when they were looking at computer records?
I don't think they had to worry about running out.
It was in the mid-fifties.
Keep in mind, despite what STO would have you believe, the Defiant could quite happily nestle inbetween the nacells on that Connie-refit with plenty of wiggle room.
Torpedoes remain about the same size throughout Trek, I'd guestimate a Defiant class has 10 - 12 photon/quantum torpedoes + what ever is in the tubes ready to fire. Of course if it gets really desperate the whole front of the ship is one huge mine apparently.
Really doesn't matter. My love for DS9 aside... and canon aside...
...self replicating mines is utter BS. Conservation of Energy anyone?
Where does the power to replicate a mine come from? "Silly Darmak, the Mine has a battery or some such with enough energy to replicate the new mine!"
Cool, so where does it get the energy to replicate the energy required for the battery of the replicated mine to replicate the next mine? "Sorry, you lost me."
No free lunch.
I quite agree. To my mind it's not that the DS9 mines were infinite, it's that the Dominion didn't know how big the power cells were in them or how many mines had been placed, if they'd have known that you could extrapolate how many of the damn things can reappear.
Run enough ships though and eventually they'll run out of juice and power down. That could take a LOT of ships being carted back to dry dock in the mean time though. Plus it might upset the aliens living inside... and nobody really wants to do that... they can be a touch "god like".
Thinking about it though all we see is the mines cloak. The Defiant is dropping them off. We never explicitly see them replicating new ones of themselves; perhaps they couldn't in fact do that but well if you're going to tell a lie make it a good big one.
Keep in mind, despite what STO would have you believe, the Defiant could quite happily nestle inbetween the nacells on that Connie-refit with plenty of wiggle room.
Torpedoes remain about the same size throughout Trek, I'd guestimate a Defiant class has 10 - 12 photon/quantum torpedoes + what ever is in the tubes ready to fire. Of course if it gets really desperate the whole front of the ship is one huge mine apparently.
I just watched it. Go back and look at it again. You're not taking into account how many rows of serial numbers existed in the database.
They had hundreds. Regardless.... you're right about the size.
The ship really was huge. Especially when you compare it to the man waving bye when it launched. It had plenty of storage.
Model Type: NCC-1701-A
Vehicle Type: Heavy Cruiser
Crew: 500 (72 Officers and 428 Enlisted)
Troops: 120 Marines and 60 Fighter Pilots
Passengers: 20
Vehicles:
Fighter Compliment:
12 Tycho class light interceptors.
6 Arco class attack sleds
6 Argus Class warp fighters
Shuttles:
4 Standard Shuttles
M.D.C. By Location:
Siege Phaser Cannons (8 banks of 2 each): 800 each bank
Siege Phaser Cannons (2, Individual mounts): 400 each
Photon Torpedo Tubes (2): 800 each
Comments
Voyager definantly mentioned it, not sure if it really came up that often to be honest though.
I don't remember it really being an issue with TNG ( course it carried a compliment of around 250 torpedoes ) or DS9 (prolly didn't have 250, but prolly more than the Connie). The other big thing I think is in the shows, except for Voyager, alot of 'boring' stuff happens off-camera. And well, I personally wouldn't want to deal with that [it's just a time tax that's not much fun].
what about pressed latnium or what ever it is called? You know I had to say it :P
a) press something to replicate more torps (when not in battle ) for energy credits
b) get restocked at any Starfleet station for free.
ships should still have a physical limit.
And half of them are Undine infilitrators. You're going to lose control of your ship soon!
Remember Star Trek VI? Spock was counting torps, to prove that Kirk couldn't fire on Gowron's ship. If torps would be easily replicated they would not have to count, as noone would believe them "Yeah, you have full load, but you just replicated few"
however, given that this is 30 years in the future technology could have advanced to the point where you could replicate torps..
so using that as an excuse they could put in 'limits' on how many torpedo's you have, and force you to replicate some.. but i'm not sure what 'fun' factor this would contribute to gameplay.
Replicator technology was not in use during Kirk's official time, so that thought is pointless..
And, rather sadly, anything not in a TV show or movie does not have to be considered canon by any other source (where's my Hazard Team?), and even some things from the TV show (Captains on away teams anyone?).
Cryptic: Don't be stupid and add a pedo limit
Latinum can't be replicated, hence the reason why it's so valuable.
Phasers can be created by replicators, and has been done so a number of times in the series. Remember Gul Dukats hidden security defences on DS9? Where the replicators created auto-firing phaser turrets.
Which gives insight in to the economics of Star Trek, for the Federation energy is money. Civillians can't just teleport around, replicators aren't 100% perfect in their matter/energy conversion which also applies to reclamation of waste. You always loose something in the/;convsion. It'd also depend on how complex/dense something is as to how easily it was to replicate.
So how many photon torpedoes you have is how big your M/AM reactor is, how much spare capacity it has AND how much fuel you've left (Anti-matter and Dueterium) none of which is infinite. It is unlikley a tiny little escort would be able to resupply itself purley from replicators (excluding crew, which apparently hump like bunnies).
Theoretically the big warp core (reactor) of the Exploration class would allow them to be self sufficient for a very long time; or a very short amount of time supporting and resupplying flock of escorts.
In the sprint engagements STO currently has it wouldn't be an issue. But if you were in a long raid type battle limited ammunition would give a reason to bring resupply ships with you.
Actually it can be, if its molecular structure can be scanned it can be replicated, that's how it works. However the worth of the Latinum is less than the energy cost to replicate it. So whilst you can do it it's pretty pointless to do so other than for the giggles (so that's what cadets spend their energy ration on proberbly, synthahol and fake latinum).
The idea of resupplying does make one think. I personally "pray and spray" my torps knowing full well im not going to run out. Not the best policy for a responsible captian i know but....lol.
Im not adverse to having a limit. would definitely make me think twice and wait for the shields to drop before i press my number 2 key!
having said that i would also want a respectable compliment of torpedos per tier ship or even purchase them to put in a "Ships" Cargohold / inventory,
I thought it was Rom who created auto replicating mines to block the wormhole.
Anyways, the thing I love about "Anarchy Online" was that you had to be conscience about your ammo, which most MMOs dont worry (especially unlimited arrows).
I like the idea of limited torpedos myself, and like someone said make them more powerful but limited per ship class. That way it does add some tactic into space battles. At the moment, i just click and spam fire all weapons...
lol props to you sir! props to you!
It's the most wonderful feeling, in EVE, to sit there like a lumox with all your guns/launchers dry and not a round of ammo left in the hold. Never have I been so happy to see a jet can
Where do you get this whole concept of energy ration?
Is this something you made up or do you have anything backing it up?
The only time I remember it being an issue in the TV series was in Voyager and that was because they were obviously quite far from a Federation starbase, so had to watch their supply. Otherwise, it's not something ships have to worry about I don't think and I don't want to have to worry about it in game. It's just tedious.
Sikso, Benjamin talking to his farther in a DS9 episode with I think Dax could be Ezri but more likley Jadzia present (it's one of the Earth set ones). His farther comments that be blew his entire months energy alotment on transporting home every night during his first week at the academy due to home sickness.
Mr. Quinnell: this game is aimed primarily at a segment who are very into explaining and understanding everything. For us, to varying degrees, things that increase the "realism" also increase the enjoyment.
OT: I wouldn't mind some kind of limit, but make it a reasonably large number. Trek canon has established that torpedoes can't simply be replicated, clearly implying that there's something in them that prevents it. But make it a large enough number that it wouldn't even come up unless you went an unusually long time between dockings at places that can replenish them, or were spraying them willy-nilly during a prolonged fight. They'd have to show the number, but it could be in the bottom corner of the icon, like any other power with "charges".
I suppose larger ships could carry more "shells", all reloading automatically whenever I am at a suitable location. I like the little bit of realism it would add, but it's not the Commanding Officer's job to see that ship's stores are replenished.
Just thought of a problem: would the different torpedo launchers share the same inventory? Shouldn't "Standard" torpedoes be different from "Mark I", etc.? I shouldn't be able to double my load by using up my Mark I supply, then swapping my original Standard launcher back in.
Yet that makes no sense. If I can only carry, say, 250 torpedoes, I should be able to pull another 250 out of my cover when I switch launchers. But if they share the same inventory, why do different models do different damage?
Voyager limits replicator rations and holodeck time due to lack of energy (not sure what material is used possibly duterium?)
In an episode I Don't know the name but they are searching for more and come across the planet of liquid life forms, land in it and gives them some DNA to take solid form.
In DS9 they replicated mines.
Antimatter. It can't be replicated. According to the TNG Tech manual larger starships contain what amounts of minature particle accelerators so in an emergency they can produce some, but it's highly inefficient (one assumes it consumes more power than the antimatter would generate) but if your 20+ years from the nearest starbase at sublight or ten min at warp 5.... your going to want warp drive working no matter the cost, the ship has enough atmosphere to survive that long without life support.
And photons are apparently a matter/antimatter explosive; a tiny wee small one all things considered as if it were full of antimatter it'd probably be enough to blow a small planetoid like Pluto in chunks. So you can replicate everything but the second bit of the warhead.
Again, tech manual, the Federation has industrial sized antimatter 'refineries' which are vastly more efficient than the shipboard units.
In DS9 I don't think they ever specifically said the replicating mines were matter/anti-matter based. Could have been something equally bangy but not as fiddly to replicate.
Dueterium. They were running out of it. Basically it's another component needed in maintaining a M/AM reaction... it also fuels the fusion reactors which provide secondary power, sublight drive and such. So a starship would burn great gobs of it when going hell for leather accross a quadrant (probably with "Alpha Quadrant or bust!" on the side knowing Janeway).
Episode is called Demon, the nickname of a Class Y world.
I prefer to think that modern torpedoes are sufficiently more complex that they remain unreplicatable...
...you could replicate older 'simpler' torpedoes perhaps sure... but if you want the modern ones with the advanced guidance systems with the micro force field projectors to create a momentary "shaped charge" -insert additional technobabble- then you're going to have to wait for the manufactured components to arrive from the Forge World on Ryza... er wait... wrong IP
Did you see how many torps they carried in the list when they were looking at computer records?
I don't think they had to worry about running out.
Really doesn't matter. My love for DS9 aside... and canon aside...
...self replicating mines is utter BS. Conservation of Energy anyone?
Where does the power to replicate a mine come from?
"Silly Darmak, the Mine has a battery or some such with enough energy to replicate the new mine!"
Cool, so where does it get the energy to replicate the energy required for the battery of the replicated mine to replicate the next mine?
"Sorry, you lost me."
No free lunch.
It was in the mid-fifties.
Keep in mind, despite what STO would have you believe, the Defiant could quite happily nestle inbetween the nacells on that Connie-refit with plenty of wiggle room.
Torpedoes remain about the same size throughout Trek, I'd guestimate a Defiant class has 10 - 12 photon/quantum torpedoes + what ever is in the tubes ready to fire. Of course if it gets really desperate the whole front of the ship is one huge mine apparently.
I quite agree. To my mind it's not that the DS9 mines were infinite, it's that the Dominion didn't know how big the power cells were in them or how many mines had been placed, if they'd have known that you could extrapolate how many of the damn things can reappear.
Run enough ships though and eventually they'll run out of juice and power down. That could take a LOT of ships being carted back to dry dock in the mean time though. Plus it might upset the aliens living inside... and nobody really wants to do that... they can be a touch "god like".
Thinking about it though all we see is the mines cloak. The Defiant is dropping them off. We never explicitly see them replicating new ones of themselves; perhaps they couldn't in fact do that but well if you're going to tell a lie make it a good big one.
I just watched it. Go back and look at it again. You're not taking into account how many rows of serial numbers existed in the database.
They had hundreds. Regardless.... you're right about the size.
The ship really was huge. Especially when you compare it to the man waving bye when it launched. It had plenty of storage.
Model Type: NCC-1701-A
Vehicle Type: Heavy Cruiser
Crew: 500 (72 Officers and 428 Enlisted)
Troops: 120 Marines and 60 Fighter Pilots
Passengers: 20
Vehicles:
Fighter Compliment:
12 Tycho class light interceptors.
6 Arco class attack sleds
6 Argus Class warp fighters
Shuttles:
4 Standard Shuttles
M.D.C. By Location:
Siege Phaser Cannons (8 banks of 2 each): 800 each bank
Siege Phaser Cannons (2, Individual mounts): 400 each
Photon Torpedo Tubes (2): 800 each
From the Starfleet Prototype book.