I have read a lot of posts about people wanting to command their favorite ships, but not being able to because it isn't powerful enough for when you increase in rank. Now, I'm no expert, and I really hope that this idea hasn't been brought up before and I'm just wasting ya'lls time, but this might be a viable way to let everyone have the ship they want without breaking canon.
Disclaimer: Truth be told, I have not reached admiral level yet so I do not speak from experience. I simply have an idea that I would like to share. I am NOT a number cruncher either, so change any numerical values to something else if they arent balanced.
Starship Specialization
AKA: I have been in command of this vessel and me and my crew knows how it works.
AAKA: We nos this flyin majigger betters thn that un over dar! Problem:
I want to fly Tier X ship when I am an admiral, but when comparing it to the benefits gained from a Tier 5, I lose a lot of potential survivability/power/damage/etc. if I stick with this lower one. Solution:
Instead of letting the player replace the Sovereign model with a Miranda model because you want to pretend to be uber-khan having a Miranda with phasers out the wazoo, why not have your experiences in lower tier ships factor into your ability to command them within reason? Ideas:
1. Adjust current Starship Captain skills to include more bonuses that increase with level.
2a. Add a new Captain or Admiral level skill Starship Specialization. This skill would only be accessible if you have put 9 Ranks into any _______ Captain skill and would only work for ship types that have 9 Ranks in the associated captain skill.
2b. Add a Starship Specialization Tree for Tier 1-4 ships. This would mean that you could specialize in a specific ship type without having to put 9 ranks in the ship. But, if youre specializing, why wouldnt you?
Options 2a and 2b would include bonuses like these:
Console Expertise, Power Efficiency, and Helm Familiarity. Rationale:
You and your crew flew in X ship for several ranks/grades, your crew has had a lot of time to get to know how the ship works, therefore, you should be adept at commanding the ship that your character would know best.
When a borg cube shows up on the federations front door, Starfleet doesnt just call upon admiral level ships to deal with it, we scramble all available starships to defend the quadrant! Now, I am not a numbers fellow so I dont know what would be gamebreaking, overpowering, or canon disrupting (?) but just bear with me for a bit. Im going to address the listed increases listed above in order as to how one could make commanding lower tier ships more viable.
Console Expertise: Increases to Console Levels
Canonical Explanation As you go from tier to tier, one will notice the more powers available for your bridge officers to use. Since the ships are more advanced as you go, of course your ships would be able to handle more powerful abilities and console slots with their more advanced warp engines and whatnot. But, if you know your ship like the back of your hand, dont you think your crew can pull off a Scotty or Gordi and use higher level skills with what they have available? In the shows, you see bridge crews devising ways to do all sorts of psudo-scientific non-sense that goes beyond their means by incorporating risky last minute modifications and coming out on top to save the day. In theory, it would not break the Star Trek canon by allowing more experienced officers to be allowed to use better powers in smaller ships.
Requirements: 9 Ranks in the _____ Captain skill of your choice and 9 Ranks in Starship Specialization
Execution: Have your chosen captain type and current rank affect what powers youre allowed to use in lower tier ships. When you reach a Rank X Grade 5, your console level will increase for ships types you have devoted 9 skill points in. Itd work by increasing the highest level console that corresponds to your captain type first and then the next rank would increase all other slots by one and alternate between the two.
lets say that a Lt. Cmdr Tactical officer fell in love with his Saber, an Escort level ship so he puts 9 skill points into Escort Captain. Upon reaching Cmdr 5, the Escort primary tactical console would become a Lt. Cmdr level console. Upon reaching Captain 5, the other 3 consoles would become Lt. Consoles. And finally when he gets to Admiral 5, the primary tactical console would level one more time to become a Cmdr console. This would give an Admiral 5 a BOFF Tray of the following:
Tac 4/Tac 2/Eng 2/Sci 2 (was 2/1/1/1)
Not as powerful as an advanced Escort, but in comparison, the player is only missing one ensign console slot so they can still use a good portion of their BOFFs powers. Lets say an Engineer Captain loves his Nova, a Science Vessel class. The same rules apply for a different array in the end It adds a bit more flavor to your area of expertise.
Tac 2/Eng 3/Sci 3/Sci 2
For Captain level ships that correspond to your captain type, like a Science Admiral 5 commanding an Intrepid, the secondary slot would increase by one for an Array of Tac 2/Eng 2/Sci 4/Sci 3
Power Efficiency: Inherit Increases to Energy Output.
Canonical Explanation You have been commanding the same vessel for a while and you know how to manage your power to systems you become familiar with. It would make sense for your crew to know how to manage systems they live with on a day to day basis with increased efficiency for being around it for so long. You know which subsystems to reroute power through to maximize energy output or since youre a higher level captain, your prestige has earned you minor modifications to your ships systems. Its like youre due for a phone upgrade, but instead you choose to expand your old phones capabilities by putting in a larger SIM card and unlimited calls nationwide.
Requirements: Ranks in the skill. Values go up as you increase in rank. The numbers below would be the max value for having 9 points in the skill.
Execution: Every Rank X Grade 5, your ships energy will increase slightly with diminishing returns. The ship type and captain type would determine which energy levels go up. The captain type would be the larger of the power increases while the increase from the ship type would be smaller. The lower tier the ship, the higher the power increase would be raised over time to try to make up for lack of weapon systems and consoles that larger, more advanced ships have. Again, it wouldnt bring it up to tier 5 levels, just lessen the gap. Someone with numbers can determine the best ones.
I dont know numbers or percentages to put on this because I dont know what would be over-powering, but for the sake of having a tenative example, lets say:
Captain Type %s in specific fields
- Tactical: Weapons 3% / Shields 1.5%
- Engineers: Shields 3% / Engines 1.5%
- Science: 3% Auxiliary / Shields 1.5%
Ship Type
Light Cruiser: Weapons 1.5% / Shields 1.5% / Engines 1.5% / Auxiliary 1.5%
All Tactical: Weapons 2% / Shields 0.5% / Engines 0.5% / Auxiliary 0.5%
All Cruisers: Weapons 0.75% / Shields 1.25% / Engines 1.25% / Auxiliary 0.75%
All Science: Weapons 0.5% / Shields 0.5% / Engines 0.5% / Auxiliary 2%
The only problem I have with this idea is that I think something like this is already in place, but Im not sure.
Helm Familiarity: Small Defense Increase
Canonical Explanation: You and your crew know how to fly the ship well. This increases the ships innate defense to make up for the weaker shield and hull strength. This is probably the easiest to include, but I dont know how defense works in this game.
Requirements: Ranks in the skill. Values go up as you increase in rank. The numbers below would be the max value for having 9 points in the skill.
Execution: Every Rank X Grade 5 would increase your ships defense by a certain percent basically making your ship more elusive to make up for the fact your hull is weaker than the higher tier ships. Add diminishing returns if you want. Someone with knowledge of how defense works in this game could give better values than me.
I dont know the numbers, but just imagine your defense increasing by a reasonable amount making you a bit more survivable. The ship that would benefit from this the most would be the T1 Light Cruiser.
As far as I know, the reasoning behind all these is plausible. It makes sense that even if the ship isnt the best, if you know it well enough, you can have the option to stay in the ship you like. Your larger T5 ships will still be more powerful with more slots for consoles, weapons, and whatever else you want, but smaller ships will still perform adequately for admirals. If someone has like a spreadsheet and calls the percentages overpowered, change them to something that would make more sense. Whatcha'll think?
I'm usually not one for bumping topics, but I'd at least like some feedback after working on this idea for a good 3-4 hours. Even someone ripping the idea apart for being suggested already if it has or just being a bad idea would be great.
Problem is that you still end up with Khan in his Uber Miranda...
...sure, he isn't firing phasers out the wazoo, but they have to hit harder to make his ship choice viable right?
I have my own suggestion on the matter, but I suspect they are even less likely to occur.
I think it would be easier to implement the skill to let you specialise in a ship class, and then having put the points into that makes you able to have higher BO stations
So instead of: Imaginary class T1 has Tactical, Science, Engineering (ensigns)
Ensign, Ensign, Ensign
You can now have
Captain, Captain, Captain
and use all their skills.
You should also be able to equip the high-tier weaponry to the slots.
The only difference is, now you have to be tactical because you cannot say, have 10 phaser arrays as your ship can only equip 3. Effective skill use would overcome that, and add say a specialisation bonus that gives extra manovourability firepower and so on to the ship class.
BUT not enough to riidculously unbalance the canon.
I.E admiral in soverign will ALWAYS have more power than Admiral in Miranda. Simply because he has more bridge slots available.
I think it would be easier to implement the skill to let you specialise in a ship class, and then having put the points into that makes you able to have higher BO stations
So instead of: Imaginary class T1 has Tactical, Science, Engineering (ensigns)
Ensign, Ensign, Ensign
You can now have
Captain, Captain, Captain
and use all their skills.
.
I agree with that. I think it would be a much simpler, and easier to implement idea for increasing the longevity of a ship.
I love my Saber but I know it will never compete with a Sov or others in terms of crew numbers, power, available weapon slots etc. But there shouldn't be any reason why I can't have Commanders at my bridge stations. The extra BO skills I could then use would make it easier to keep on using the ship.
Another alternative I think might be to have more missions geared towards a particular class. Or needing a particular class. In large fleet engagements each ship class would play their own part but as it stands it's mainly just about going pew pew pew, regardless of class.
Problem is that you still end up with Khan in his Uber Miranda...
...sure, he isn't firing phasers out the wazoo, but they have to hit harder to make his ship choice viable right?
I have my own suggestion on the matter, but I suspect they are even less likely to occur.
Well, the weapon systems will be more powerful yes, but the number of weapon/console/auxillary slots would still be the same.
This thread is full of really good ideas. Since the skill tree is going to have to be revamed at some point as it was obviously built for unlimited skill points, this really merits some discussion.
Please devs, REALLY read this thread and give it some thought. I can't see any reason the community as a whole wouldnt love this.
I have read a lot of posts about people wanting to command their favorite ships, but not being able to because it isn't powerful enough for when you increase in rank. Now, I'm no expert, and I really hope that this idea hasn't been brought up before and I'm just wasting ya'lls time, but this might be a viable way to let everyone have the ship they want without breaking canon.
Disclaimer: Truth be told, I have not reached admiral level yet so I do not speak from experience. I simply have an idea that I would like to share. I am NOT a number cruncher either, so change any numerical values to something else if they arent balanced.
Starship Specialization
AKA: I have been in command of this vessel and me and my crew knows how it works.
AAKA: We nos this flyin majigger betters thn that un over dar!
Problem:
I want to fly Tier X ship when I am an admiral, but when comparing it to the benefits gained from a Tier 5, I lose a lot of potential survivability/power/damage/etc. if I stick with this lower one.
Solution:
Instead of letting the player replace the Sovereign model with a Miranda model because you want to pretend to be uber-khan having a Miranda with phasers out the wazoo, why not have your experiences in lower tier ships factor into your ability to command them within reason?
Ideas:
1. Adjust current Starship Captain skills to include more bonuses that increase with level.
2a. Add a new Captain or Admiral level skill Starship Specialization. This skill would only be accessible if you have put 9 Ranks into any _______ Captain skill and would only work for ship types that have 9 Ranks in the associated captain skill.
2b. Add a Starship Specialization Tree for Tier 1-4 ships. This would mean that you could specialize in a specific ship type without having to put 9 ranks in the ship. But, if youre specializing, why wouldnt you?
Options 2a and 2b would include bonuses like these:
Console Expertise, Power Efficiency, and Helm Familiarity.
Rationale:
You and your crew flew in X ship for several ranks/grades, your crew has had a lot of time to get to know how the ship works, therefore, you should be adept at commanding the ship that your character would know best.
When a borg cube shows up on the federations front door, Starfleet doesnt just call upon admiral level ships to deal with it, we scramble all available starships to defend the quadrant! Now, I am not a numbers fellow so I dont know what would be gamebreaking, overpowering, or canon disrupting (?) but just bear with me for a bit. Im going to address the listed increases listed above in order as to how one could make commanding lower tier ships more viable.
Console Expertise: Increases to Console Levels
Canonical Explanation As you go from tier to tier, one will notice the more powers available for your bridge officers to use. Since the ships are more advanced as you go, of course your ships would be able to handle more powerful abilities and console slots with their more advanced warp engines and whatnot. But, if you know your ship like the back of your hand, dont you think your crew can pull off a Scotty or Gordi and use higher level skills with what they have available? In the shows, you see bridge crews devising ways to do all sorts of psudo-scientific non-sense that goes beyond their means by incorporating risky last minute modifications and coming out on top to save the day. In theory, it would not break the Star Trek canon by allowing more experienced officers to be allowed to use better powers in smaller ships.
Requirements: 9 Ranks in the _____ Captain skill of your choice and 9 Ranks in Starship Specialization
Execution: Have your chosen captain type and current rank affect what powers youre allowed to use in lower tier ships. When you reach a Rank X Grade 5, your console level will increase for ships types you have devoted 9 skill points in. Itd work by increasing the highest level console that corresponds to your captain type first and then the next rank would increase all other slots by one and alternate between the two.
lets say that a Lt. Cmdr Tactical officer fell in love with his Saber, an Escort level ship so he puts 9 skill points into Escort Captain. Upon reaching Cmdr 5, the Escort primary tactical console would become a Lt. Cmdr level console. Upon reaching Captain 5, the other 3 consoles would become Lt. Consoles. And finally when he gets to Admiral 5, the primary tactical console would level one more time to become a Cmdr console. This would give an Admiral 5 a BOFF Tray of the following:
Tac 4/Tac 2/Eng 2/Sci 2 (was 2/1/1/1)
Not as powerful as an advanced Escort, but in comparison, the player is only missing one ensign console slot so they can still use a good portion of their BOFFs powers. Lets say an Engineer Captain loves his Nova, a Science Vessel class. The same rules apply for a different array in the end It adds a bit more flavor to your area of expertise.
Tac 2/Eng 3/Sci 3/Sci 2
For Captain level ships that correspond to your captain type, like a Science Admiral 5 commanding an Intrepid, the secondary slot would increase by one for an Array of Tac 2/Eng 2/Sci 4/Sci 3
Power Efficiency: Inherit Increases to Energy Output.
Canonical Explanation You have been commanding the same vessel for a while and you know how to manage your power to systems you become familiar with. It would make sense for your crew to know how to manage systems they live with on a day to day basis with increased efficiency for being around it for so long. You know which subsystems to reroute power through to maximize energy output or since youre a higher level captain, your prestige has earned you minor modifications to your ships systems. Its like youre due for a phone upgrade, but instead you choose to expand your old phones capabilities by putting in a larger SIM card and unlimited calls nationwide.
Requirements: Ranks in the skill. Values go up as you increase in rank. The numbers below would be the max value for having 9 points in the skill.
Execution: Every Rank X Grade 5, your ships energy will increase slightly with diminishing returns. The ship type and captain type would determine which energy levels go up. The captain type would be the larger of the power increases while the increase from the ship type would be smaller. The lower tier the ship, the higher the power increase would be raised over time to try to make up for lack of weapon systems and consoles that larger, more advanced ships have. Again, it wouldnt bring it up to tier 5 levels, just lessen the gap. Someone with numbers can determine the best ones.
I dont know numbers or percentages to put on this because I dont know what would be over-powering, but for the sake of having a tenative example, lets say:
Captain Type %s in specific fields
- Tactical: Weapons 3% / Shields 1.5%
- Engineers: Shields 3% / Engines 1.5%
- Science: 3% Auxiliary / Shields 1.5%
Ship Type
Light Cruiser: Weapons 1.5% / Shields 1.5% / Engines 1.5% / Auxiliary 1.5%
All Tactical: Weapons 2% / Shields 0.5% / Engines 0.5% / Auxiliary 0.5%
All Cruisers: Weapons 0.75% / Shields 1.25% / Engines 1.25% / Auxiliary 0.75%
All Science: Weapons 0.5% / Shields 0.5% / Engines 0.5% / Auxiliary 2%
The only problem I have with this idea is that I think something like this is already in place, but Im not sure.
Helm Familiarity: Small Defense Increase
Canonical Explanation: You and your crew know how to fly the ship well. This increases the ships innate defense to make up for the weaker shield and hull strength. This is probably the easiest to include, but I dont know how defense works in this game.
Requirements: Ranks in the skill. Values go up as you increase in rank. The numbers below would be the max value for having 9 points in the skill.
Execution: Every Rank X Grade 5 would increase your ships defense by a certain percent basically making your ship more elusive to make up for the fact your hull is weaker than the higher tier ships. Add diminishing returns if you want. Someone with knowledge of how defense works in this game could give better values than me.
I dont know the numbers, but just imagine your defense increasing by a reasonable amount making you a bit more survivable. The ship that would benefit from this the most would be the T1 Light Cruiser.
As far as I know, the reasoning behind all these is plausible. It makes sense that even if the ship isnt the best, if you know it well enough, you can have the option to stay in the ship you like. Your larger T5 ships will still be more powerful with more slots for consoles, weapons, and whatever else you want, but smaller ships will still perform adequately for admirals. If someone has like a spreadsheet and calls the percentages overpowered, change them to something that would make more sense. Whatcha'll think?
I agree.. the System we have makes no sense right now...
just to add what I had said in another topic that would be suited here:-
What is the point is gaining skills in a ship that you will never use again ?!?! the only reason for this that I can see if so when you respec later you can remove the skills from those ships u never use and add them to something else... even then it still does not make sense...
You are a Captain !! you do NOT Pilot the Ship, you do not fire the Weapons, ect ect... You are in command of what your CREW does.... so these Skills Ships, Weapon, Enginerring ect.. should be given to the Crew members not to the Captain of the Ship...
The Crew are in fact taking the Ship to Warp, firing Weapons, going to full impulse... NOT THE CAPTAIN...
so it would be something like this...
Officers
Helmsman.... Skills in a ships Maneuverability, Speed Efficiency, Navigation, going to Warp...
The Captain... (US) should be just playing the Game and rely on our own skill to play the game... and the Crew are in charge of everything else for the Captain...
We as the Captain should be diverting the Skill points into the Crew since the Captain is the one who is in charge and assigning crew members to the Role the Crew member is suited for... in all reality the Crew assigned to a sataion like the "Helmsman" should be gaining Skill points for the amount of time they have spent in that role/station... or from the Missions or Comabt (PvP) ect...
When it comes to away missions the Captain should have Ground combat Skills as awell as the away mission Team as it is like now...
Comments
...sure, he isn't firing phasers out the wazoo, but they have to hit harder to make his ship choice viable right?
I have my own suggestion on the matter, but I suspect they are even less likely to occur.
I think it would be easier to implement the skill to let you specialise in a ship class, and then having put the points into that makes you able to have higher BO stations
So instead of: Imaginary class T1 has Tactical, Science, Engineering (ensigns)
Ensign, Ensign, Ensign
You can now have
Captain, Captain, Captain
and use all their skills.
You should also be able to equip the high-tier weaponry to the slots.
The only difference is, now you have to be tactical because you cannot say, have 10 phaser arrays as your ship can only equip 3. Effective skill use would overcome that, and add say a specialisation bonus that gives extra manovourability firepower and so on to the ship class.
BUT not enough to riidculously unbalance the canon.
I.E admiral in soverign will ALWAYS have more power than Admiral in Miranda. Simply because he has more bridge slots available.
I agree with that. I think it would be a much simpler, and easier to implement idea for increasing the longevity of a ship.
I love my Saber but I know it will never compete with a Sov or others in terms of crew numbers, power, available weapon slots etc. But there shouldn't be any reason why I can't have Commanders at my bridge stations. The extra BO skills I could then use would make it easier to keep on using the ship.
Another alternative I think might be to have more missions geared towards a particular class. Or needing a particular class. In large fleet engagements each ship class would play their own part but as it stands it's mainly just about going pew pew pew, regardless of class.
Well, the weapon systems will be more powerful yes, but the number of weapon/console/auxillary slots would still be the same.
I think having them all brought up like that would be overpowerd considering, there is only one Commander slot in even the higher level ships.
Please devs, REALLY read this thread and give it some thought. I can't see any reason the community as a whole wouldnt love this.
I agree.. the System we have makes no sense right now...
just to add what I had said in another topic that would be suited here:-