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My case for Federation Cloaking ability.....

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Well in the TNG episode "The Pegasus" the Federation secretly develops an "interphasic" cloaking device that the Enterprise has to use to get out of the inside of an asteroid...Capt. Picard notes that its use breaks the Treaty of Algeron(a treaty between the Federation and the Romulans), but the episode ends with the Enterprise keeping the device...

DS9 has the Defiant having a working cloaking device...

So, if we can suppose that the Federation has the technology to properly cloak their ships but does not due to the Treaty of Algeron, then since we are at war with both the klingons and the Romulans, then I assume the Treaty of Algeron is null and void...so...it is logical that the Federation would be using a cloaking device...

This assertion is backed up by the writers of TNG as they use this line of logic in the final episode "All good Things" when during one scene in the future, the "future Enterprise" openly uses cloaking technology.

So I hope I have explained my case well enough for you all to agree that the Federation Cloaking Console is a reasonable request.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Well in the TNG episode "The Pegasus" the Federation secretly develops an "interphasic" cloaking device that the Enterprise has to use to get out of the inside of an asteroid...Capt. Picard notes that its use breaks the Treaty of Algeron(a treaty between the Federation and the Romulans), but the episode ends with the Enterprise keeping the device...

    DS9 has the Defiant having a working cloaking device...

    So, if we can suppose that the Federation has the technology to properly cloak their ships but does not due to the Treaty of Algeron, then since we are at war with both the klingons and the Romulans, then I assume the Treaty of Algeron is null and void...so...it is logical that the Federation would be using a cloaking device...

    This assertion is backed up by the writers of TNG as they use this line of logic in the final episode "All good Things" when during one scene in the future, the "future Enterprise" openly uses cloaking technology.

    So I hope I have explained my case well enough for you all to agree that the Federation Cloaking Console is a reasonable request.

    Imo Defiant had cloaking because Romulans agreed with it in exchange - they got info on Dominion from Fed.

    Also there is Mask energy signature skill - cloaking.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    noooooooooo
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I think we should get one or two ships that can cloak, Defiant should be one of them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    As a fed player NOOOOOO
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Sure ... why dont we give the feds BoPs while were at it?? and VoQuvs as well. Oh oh oh you know what i really want to see? Science ships for the Klingon side Ive been waitin for that, Oh and I want to wear my tos miniskirt uniform on all my BOs. AND I would also like to see the wrath of khan admirals uniform on my captain.

    It also wouldnt be too bad if they could add the many differetn hfed ship types to the klingon repotoire, or at least give us an equal number of ships to choose from so we are exactly the same in that respect as well.
    While were at it why not make an option for all federation officers to have ridges as well? cuz the federation cant have ridges right now and thast just lame. Oh and they should be able to use Batleths too even tho they have no training with it and its not even fed issue <oh wait they alrdy do this>

    Oh oh oh and while were at it we can give galaxies to the klingons Ive always wanted to have my klingon officer captain a galaxy class starship. And wouldnt it be nice to have the klingon damage brought back down a little bit back to where it was so the feds can have the same amount but still have higher shields?

    CMon dude Im gettin tired of hearin these conversations, if you gave the feds EVERY LAST thing that made the klingons unique why play a klingon? And if you take any more away from the klingons we wont even be able to handle pve mobs. Cmon man give us a break already if you dont like your faction <the federation> then pick the other one. Dont TRIBBLE it and pick it apart till there s nothing left of it worth playing, just cuz you dont happen to like o rplay klingons doesnt mean there arent other peeple out there that do.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kassidus wrote: »
    As a fed player NOOOOOO

    Come on man...give me a more detailed reason for why you disagree with my assertion...rather than just saying NOOOOOO. I layed out my points logically and backed them up with facts. Give it a try!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    then since we are at war with both the klingons and the Romulans, then I assume the Treaty of Algeron is null and void

    An official state of war does not exist between the romulan empire and the federation, and the treaty is still in force. The hostilities between romulans and starfleet in the game I think represent more border skirmishes between various splinter groups due to the more fractured nature of the empire's military forces.
    This assertion is backed up by the writers of TNG as they use this line of logic in the final episode "All good Things" when during one scene in the future, the "future Enterprise" openly uses cloaking technology.

    It seems that future never actually occurs. The Enterprise D was destroyed, and the Enterprise E built. In the future you speak of, the D is still around and modified, captained by Riker. In the real timeline, data is the current captain of the enterprise, and riker is off captaining a science ship.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The Defiant was a special case. The second Defiant did NOT have a cloaking device. The future alternate timeline was only a possibility, and in that timeline, the Romulans basically didn't exist, so that was why the treaty was nullified. Also, we are NOT at war with the Romulans. Yes, things are tense, but a state of war does not exist yet.

    There was also a post I read in another thread about how giving the Feds cloaking would be quite detrimental to PvP. I don't recall the actual reasoning, I'll look for it, but I remember being convinced.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    hunaxor wrote: »
    Imo Defiant had cloaking because Romulans agreed with it in exchange - they got info on Dominion from Fed..

    The Federation also agreed only to use the cloak in the gamma quadrant. The second Defiant that Sisko got after the first was destroyed didn't have a cloak, and the Valiant didn't have one, either. It wasn't standard equipment, only the original Defiant had one.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Someone needs to get the word out to all those birds of prey that shoot at me on sight that we are not at war in this game...

    My problem is the lack of a counter to the cloak. Every good game should be like Rock Paper Scissors (oversimplified example I know..) For every move there should be a counter move. In my experience this game does not have a counter to the cloaking tactics that I have been seeing in PVP..

    Klingons can engage until they begin to take serious damange, then they cloak and retreat and regen, then come back and do it again, and again, and again. If those playing Klingon in PVP want to keep that ability without giving some way to counter that move..then I predict you will not have many Federation ships to fight against for much longer, as people will get frustrated by the poor game balance in PVP.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    hevach wrote: »
    The Federation also agreed only to use the cloak in the gamma quadrant. The second Defiant that Sisko got after the first was destroyed didn't have a cloak, and the Valiant didn't have one, either. It wasn't standard equipment, only the original Defiant had one.

    But can we agree that the Federation had access to the cloaking technology in both a Romulan supplied form and the type developed by the Pegasus? In this future Star Trek universe, it is reasonable to assume they would use it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Someone needs to get the word out to all those birds of prey that shoot at me on sight that we are not at war in this game...

    My problem is the lack of a counter to the cloak. Every good game should be like Rock Paper Scissors (oversimplified example I know..) For every move there should be a counter move. In my experience this game does not have a counter to the cloaking tactics that I have been seeing in PVP..

    Klingons can engage until they begin to take serious damange, then they cloak and retreat and regen, then come back and do it again, and again, and again. If those playing Klingon in PVP want to keep that ability without giving some way to counter that move..then I predict you will not have many Federation ships to fight against for much longer, as people will get frustrated by the poor game balance in PVP.

    Science ship with high auxilliary power can see cloaked ships, science captains also get sensor scan, which i believe can work on any ships near the target, so sensor scan a whole group of klingons and they cant cloak for like 8 or so seconds depending on the level of the power, and the ship that uses it gets better preception against stealth.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    But can we agree that the Federation had access to the cloaking technology in both a Romulan supplied form and the type developed by the Pegasus? In this future Star Trek universe, it is reasonable to assume they would use it.

    Having and using are very different questions. They also have access to superweapon technology like trilithium. So long as the Federation is still playing Mr. Nicey-nice and it's at least keeping them out of a full scale war on two fronts, I find it pretty reasonable that they'd chose to remain chained by the treaty.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    But can we agree that the Federation had access to the cloaking technology in both a Romulan supplied form and the type developed by the Pegasus? In this future Star Trek universe, it is reasonable to assume they would use it.

    They had cloaking tech "supplied" (i.e. stolen) from the Romulans as early as the 23rd century, and didn't use it. Starfleet is not a sneaky type organization, except in very special cases. We, the players, are not special cases.

    Also, the Pegasus's cloaking tech, as you may recall, ended up in an asteroid. I don't think using that sort of tech is reasonable at all (unless you decide that every ship in the game has it, allowing us all to get stuck on asteroids in game).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Someone needs to get the word out to all those birds of prey that shoot at me on sight that we are not at war in this game...

    My problem is the lack of a counter to the cloak. Every good game should be like Rock Paper Scissors (oversimplified example I know..) For every move there should be a counter move. In my experience this game does not have a counter to the cloaking tactics that I have been seeing in PVP..

    Klingons can engage until they begin to take serious damange, then they cloak and retreat and regen, then come back and do it again, and again, and again. If those playing Klingon in PVP want to keep that ability without giving some way to counter that move..then I predict you will not have many Federation ships to fight against for much longer, as people will get frustrated by the poor game balance in PVP.

    The only Kling ship that can BC is the BoP. And if you've ever flown one you'd know it's no easy chore getting away and cloaked. Yer flying a paper airplane. There's also plenty of CC to stop you from getting away... more often than not.. no other kling is gonna stop from his pew pew pew to use science team or extend shields on you. To get away I have to switch to full engine power, pop an engine battery(Emergency power to engines was nerfed), wait til I start accellerating and pop evasive manuevers, wait til I'm out of 10km so no torps hit my exposed hull, by this time I'm prolly already at 60% hull with no shields. So, I hope I have a science team or engineering team to help me out.. I prolly already used em on my buddy that was getting lit up before me. All the while I'm looking back praying nobody pops evasive to catch up... if they do I'm committed to Battle Cloak so I hope my ship can take the next 8000-16000 hit on my exposed hull. Hell most players suicide run to get out of tier 2 because they want a cruiser that can actually take a hit. Oh, and your escorts can 1 shot me on my exposed hull. So.. Tac Beam followed by High Yield Quantum = dead BoP. We cannot do that to any of your ships. So, next time a BoP gets away... just know it wasn't as simple as using Cloak.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Well in the TNG episode "The Pegasus" the Federation secretly develops an "interphasic" cloaking device that the Enterprise has to use to get out of the inside of an asteroid...Capt. Picard notes that its use breaks the Treaty of Algeron(a treaty between the Federation and the Romulans), but the episode ends with the Enterprise keeping the device...

    DS9 has the Defiant having a working cloaking device...

    So, if we can suppose that the Federation has the technology to properly cloak their ships but does not due to the Treaty of Algeron, then since we are at war with both the klingons and the Romulans, then I assume the Treaty of Algeron is null and void...so...it is logical that the Federation would be using a cloaking device...

    This assertion is backed up by the writers of TNG as they use this line of logic in the final episode "All good Things" when during one scene in the future, the "future Enterprise" openly uses cloaking technology.

    So I hope I have explained my case well enough for you all to agree that the Federation Cloaking Console is a reasonable request.


    Don't forget the TOS Episode "The Enterprise Incident" where Kirk and Spock stole the new (at that time) Romulan Cloaking device and fitted it to the Enterprise.
    In 2268, the Federation learned that the Romulans had developed a new and improved cloaking device; one that even tracking sensors could not pick up and that posed a threat to the security of the Federation. On stardate 5027.3, Starfleet Intelligence sent the Enterprise on a covert mission across the Romulan Neutral Zone to acquire the new cloak. The mission was a success, and Starfleet was able to procure an intact, modern Romulan cloaking device for study.
    "Captain’s log, stardate 5027.4. Commander Scott has less than fifteen minutes to install the Romulan's cloaking device, and get it working. I hope Mr. Spock can buy us the time we need."



    However this lead to "Treaty of Algeron"

    The Treaty of Algeron was a peace treaty signed between the United Federation of Planets and the Romulan Star Empire in 2311 on the planet Algeron IV, following the events of the Tomed Incident. The Treaty of Algeron was signed approximately 160 years after the conclusion of the Earth-Romulan War.

    The treaty reinforced and redefined the Romulan Neutral Zone, and made clear that any violations of the Zone without adequate notification, by either side, would be considered an act of war. The treaty also expressly prohibited the development or use of cloaking device technology by the Federation.


    This treaty was later reinforced by the Orgainian Peace Treaty.



    but that didn't stop Starfleet personell illegally and secretly from developing cloaking technology as seen in TNG episode "Pegasus", however the TNG episode showed how people died because of the technology (phasing cloak), which reinforced the Treaty of Algeron and exposed illegal creation of Cloaking Tech.



    I do see the Original poster's point.. with all the Rom ships and Klink ships being popped by Feds in the game, I don't see why Fed players can't "Kirk" a cloaking device.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    As a klingon I agree to give you cloak but you have to give up an officer slot on every ship AND 10k hull to get it...

    Then we can think about it ok?

    Don't want to do that?

    Too bad the klingons did...

    So get stuffed Fedrat.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I can see both sides to this point. Personaly I think the fed would be in extreme danger from the klingons as they are a peaceful race being attacked by a highly advanced warrior race and since the romulan empire is in disaway and verging on a civil war as well as already at war with the klingons and having lost systems to them I dont think they would be in any postion to object to the feds developing cloaking and the feds would be desperate enough to do so.( note the romulan info is what i read on the site idk if the story changes this as I am not far enough in). That being said the Klingons developed cloaking prototypes that could fire while cloaked about what was it? 90 years before? So if you gave the feds cloaking you would have to assume the klingons developed fire while cloaked tech;p.
    In the end I agree you can support feds cloaking in the story but for game playing purposes I dont think it is practicle plus each faction should have things that make them unique so no I dont think the ffeds should have cloaking for game play reasons alone.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Someone needs to get the word out to all those birds of prey that shoot at me on sight that we are not at war in this game...

    My problem is the lack of a counter to the cloak. Every good game should be like Rock Paper Scissors (oversimplified example I know..) For every move there should be a counter move. In my experience this game does not have a counter to the cloaking tactics that I have been seeing in PVP..

    Klingons can engage until they begin to take serious damange, then they cloak and retreat and regen, then come back and do it again, and again, and again. If those playing Klingon in PVP want to keep that ability without giving some way to counter that move..then I predict you will not have many Federation ships to fight against for much longer, as people will get frustrated by the poor game balance in PVP.

    This that is why the OP had a good point. the Klingons are way over balanced in PVP and the Feds have no counter to the cloak or there buff or the fact they can cloak in battle runaway repair and come back to the fight where Fed are out in the open and can not hide to repair look at my post and others and see. because we feds have not counter to the Klingons at least let us have some not all but some cloak with maybe a debuff attached to it.

    Look down to see what is said about PVP

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=114320

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=115320

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=115520

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=115001
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Lugh wrote: »
    As a klingon I agree to give you cloak but you have to give up an officer slot on every ship AND 10k hull to get it...

    Then we can think about it ok?

    Don't want to do that?

    Too bad the klingons did...

    So get stuffed Fedrat.

    Officer slot? Sto ship chart claims that everything but carrier has consistent ship slots. Tier 5 BOP has only 4 slots, but they ARE omni. Or you can get a carrier.

    Other than that, Fed gets MaskES. If a cloaking device costs 10k armor... that's a fair tradeoff.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Alan are you TRIBBLE? Cloaked ships can't repair shields... so I have to go hide and uncloak if I wanna do that... most of the time we jump right back in without shields and I pop a shield ability. You have access to all those abilities too dood. And YES, as I have already tried to discuss with you.. there are plenty of ways to counter Battle Cloak... focus fire is the first because you don't even wanna try cloaking if yer being hit by 5 dudes... instant death... so I have to get 10km away first... you can keep up with me as long as you saved your evasive manuevers.. someone on yer team didn't use it yet... there's also tractor beam... so I have to waste a science slot on polarize hull... which isn't instant so I'm taking damage... Viral Matrix... learn your abilities and quit crying all over the forums because you let some BoP get away because you don't know how to play in a good 5-man.. Sorry to be so blunt but you need to get off it dude.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    That's it.

    I propose we give all players every single ship found in the game, every single skill with maxed points, unlimited bridge officer slots and powers, as many nacelles as the player would like, all ships would have the tier 5 cruiser hull strength, tier 5 escort fire power, tier 5 science shields, cloaks, the ability to launch boarding parties and fighters, an entire fleet of pets, and a klingon host borg with a skirt.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Waaah the game isn't how I want it.

    Waaah we are weaker so you can have it.

    Waaah waaah waaah.

    Seriously the amount of vitriol hurled at the different factions is unreal. It's just a game people, remember that and try to enjoy it.
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