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Customer Entitlement Mentality

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I realize this is probably not the right forum to post this, but I think some of you should give it a read, and others NEED to give it a read. If a mod reads this please move to the appropriate forum, thx.

Two phrases that destroyed American culture
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Bump! for some light reading while the server is down!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Even outside the context of STO and MMOs, I actually thought this was pretty spot-on. I'm very, extremely tired of this notion that everything should be perfect fantastic awesome NOOOOOOW! Not to say that constructive complaints aren't valid, but I think sometimes there's a predisposition for people to ***** and be nasty simply because they can.

    But maybe I just feel this way because I work primarily with entitled college students.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    It's gotten to the point where I tend to say something to people who behave the same way. I let them know they're stupid, and what I think of their actions (granted I have to know a bit about the situation first). It's annoying to see the "Because I deserve it" statement. Businesses are a collection fo people, not the perfect omnipotent companies that people like to associate them with.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I approve this message so much that it deserves the...


    PICARD SONG!!

    Enjoy

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6oUz1v17Uo
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Momus wrote: »
    Not to say that constructive complaints aren't valid, but I think sometimes there's a predisposition for people to ***** and be nasty simply because they can.
    .

    The internet is THE perfect example of this, primarily due to anonymity.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Debaser wrote: »
    I realize this is probably not the right forum to post this, but I think some of you should give it a read, and others NEED to give it a read. If a mod reads this please move to the appropriate forum, thx.

    Two phrases that destroyed American culture

    Awesome post, nice work.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Debaser wrote: »
    The internet is THE perfect example of this, primarily due to anonymity.
    Yes, that's very true. :-p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    "The internet is THE perfect example of this, primarily due to anonymity."

    Not...completely...accurate.

    WE are all, for the most part, anonymous to each other here...

    Cryptic, however, has all our names, addresses, birth dates, and credit card numbers.

    So..the folks we're complaining to/about...know us very well. They, however, are, for the most part, a nameless faceless corporation to us.

    Just more food for thought there...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    It'll never be perfect. There will always be something especially at launch. It's how it goes, it's how it will always be.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    People with "common sense" and maturity will behave in a mature way both in RL and on the internet, and people without those things wont. No amount of witty reasoning is going to change the minds of the people who are going to act like fools on the internet because you really cant reason with a fool. Therefore, articles like the one linked to in the OP are really just a waste of time and an excuse for so called "mature" people to pat themselves on the back and congratulate themselves on their own "maturity", which really ISNT mature behavior at all.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Your thread reminds me of this website: http://notalwaysright.com/
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Oh my god /signed.
    Of course around here it'll just earn you the "fanboi" label.

    I remember when I worked in the software department of Staples, a coworker was explaining some things to a customer about some anti-virus software. I joined in to give some additional insight I'd picked up along the way. The customer, with a silver tongue, chastised me for adding my thoughts, that he owned a car dealership and one salesman butting in on anothers' sale was a horrendous act.

    I was a 17 year old kid that was never good at confrontation. I was stunned into a daze and could barely apologize before turning to go into the back to recover. Worse, the salesperson I was trying to help muttered something about me being new there.

    My wanting to kick her TRIBBLE aside (the coworker)...

    I lost all faith in customer intelligence that day. We weren't car salesmen. We weren't competing with each other for commissions. I was trying to back her up and give him more information about his purchase. He should have been grateful.

    Thankfully another coworker overheard the whole thing and was able to talk me down.

    Add to that a good amount of experience in technical support and yeah... customers are usually ignorant. That's not bad. Sometimes they're rude. That ain't cool. Sometimes they're rude AND ignorant. By god will I go after those types, at least online. I'm still not too great with in-person confrontations, sad to say. :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    killercod wrote: »
    "The internet is THE perfect example of this, primarily due to anonymity."

    Not...completely...accurate.

    WE are all, for the most part, anonymous to each other here...

    Cryptic, however, has all our names, addresses, birth dates, and credit card numbers.

    So..the folks we're complaining to/about...know us very well. They, however, are, for the most part, a nameless faceless corporation to us.

    Just more food for thought there...

    I would argue that having someone's name, and a smattering of personal chronological and financial info, is hardly knowing them very well. Hell, there are people that have lived together for years who don't know each other at all.

    You're spot on about the "nameless, faceless corporation" however, and I don't think that helps the situation because no one stops to realize that all those people at Cryptic are just that, PEOPLE. Many have a tendency to lump them in as a corporation that "just wants to steal all your hard earned cash" and every other big business stereotype out there, when the more probable reality is that they are a small to medium sized company, who is currently overwhelemd with issues on mulitple fronts, and are trying to make the best of it. I sincerely doubt the board meetings at cryptic revolve around anyone discussing how much dough they can squeeze out of the peons, but because they're just a business to us, alot of people are making those assumptions.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I don't agree with your assessment.

    The term "he customer is always right" has and is, long gone in the mentality of corporations. Also, I found a bit of hypocrisy in your article. The woman in the fur coat demanded the girl act according to her standards, you demanded that fur coat act according to yours.

    Harvard business school teaches students to classify customers as a subset of "competitors". ie: They want to put you out of business.

    It's the apologetics of folks that do not demand the best or quality of service. Now I'm no saying that this applies here to this game, but I am saying that demanding proper service doesn't make you an jackass. MMO's go down. especially during their nascense, but the people complaining should be music to company ears. It means they like the game and want to play it.

    My boss at work expects me to come to work and perform whatever tasks they have for me in a reasonable manner, if I do not, I get fired. This goes for companies that get my money as well.

    The question is really is crypic doing a reasonable job with the release of this mmo? I would say yes and therefore they continue to get my support via my dollars.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I think that at least some of it is a (bad) residual side-effect of the credit bubble. People became used to getting what they wanted - and now. I grew up before the bubble and people were more content with what they had, but then credit wasn't so easy to get, and a lot of people, especially my parent's generation, had a "credit is for emergencies and vacations only" type mentality.

    American culture is quirky when it comes to customer/business relations (just ask someone who has traveled here from another country). One example that comes to mind immediately is how servers at restaurants in the US are pretty much treated as second class citizens but in Europe they are more or less your equal. But then - they don't have to work for a tip in Europe, which is part of why American service employees are relegated to an unwritten secondary social status. Having spent a number of years managing for a couple of major US restaurant chains when I was younger, I have seen just how ugly people can be. People who have no sense of decorum and are just downright selfish are the primary reason I left that industry (because I could see that it was only getting worse with time - I also see this worsening with the MMO community, of which I have been a part of for more than 15 years).

    On the "The customer is always right" thing -- I think we would still see this phenomenon even if that phrase was never invented.

    The bottom line is that many people think that because their part of the exchange is money, that they are entitled to more than just the goods in return. It's an exchange of commodities, not an opportunity to try to be alpha dog at someone else's expense. It's a shame that so many people don't "get it".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I Demand My Money Back For This Thread! Right Now! Right Now Or I Call The Manager!!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Thank you for posting this. Not only for the article you highlighted, but that is one hilarious site. I love her writing.

    And the article "What Happens If You Buy 25 Boxes of NyQuil?" is downright hilarious. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Debaser wrote: »
    I realize this is probably not the right forum to post this, but I think some of you should give it a read, and others NEED to give it a read. If a mod reads this please move to the appropriate forum, thx.

    Two phrases that destroyed American culture

    So instead of 'The customer is always right' you'd prefere 'The Company is always right'? No thanks, that'll never happen here in the EU :D

    If the attitude were to change in the USA then get ready a brave new world to become a reality.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    losghost wrote: »
    It's the apologetics of folks that do not demand the best or quality of service. Now I'm no saying that this applies here to this game, but I am saying that demanding proper service doesn't make you an jackass. MMO's go down. especially during their nascense, but the people complaining should be music to company ears. It means they like the game and want to play it.

    The problem is when people have obviously improper expectations. With a situation like a coffee shop things are a bit simpler but even that doesn't forgive rudeness. There have been times I've requested compensation for service outage and the like but I did so calmly. A few times I've had compensation offered even when not asking for it, and I imagine it's partly because I was polite up until that point.

    A customer has a right to demand proper service but I believe we, as a society, also have the duty to demand decency.

    Now in the realm of MMOs... many of the people who complain or make demands haven't the slightest idea how the product works or what "proper service" is. Most of here aren't experts but it's easy to identify ignorance. Some people I've seen complain openly acknowledge they don't know anything about the technology but still make improper demands of the service. Those people, thankfully, will be hammered down pretty hard on these forums.

    But I'll say what I often do for clarity. I have no problem with ignorance. If people come here and ask questions I'll happily answer them to the best of my ability. However... if they're rude and demanding and they're obviously ignorant... I'll go attack dog on them. I bully the bullies. I'm proud of it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    ELITE-Kaos wrote: »
    So instead of 'The customer is always right' you'd prefere 'The Company is always right'? No thanks, that'll never happen here in the EU :D

    If the attitude were to change in the USA then get ready a brave new world to become a reality.

    I don't think that's what the OP said. More in that "Both are wrong, shut the hell up."
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Spot on, indeed. Thanks for sharing. May want to add a disclaimer about profanity though.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    losghost wrote: »
    I don't agree with your assessment.

    The term "he customer is always right" has and is, long gone in the mentality of corporations. Also, I found a bit of hypocrisy in your article. The woman in the fur coat demanded the girl act according to her standards, you demanded that fur coat act according to yours.

    Harvard business school teaches students to classify customers as a subset of "competitors". ie: They want to put you out of business.

    It's the apologetics of folks that do not demand the best or quality of service. Now I'm no saying that this applies here to this game, but I am saying that demanding proper service doesn't make you an jackass. MMO's go down. especially during their nascense, but the people complaining should be music to company ears. It means they like the game and want to play it.

    My boss at work expects me to come to work and perform whatever tasks they have for me in a reasonable manner, if I do not, I get fired. This goes for companies that get my money as well.

    The question is really is crypic doing a reasonable job with the release of this mmo? I would say yes and therefore they continue to get my support via my dollars.

    2 Things about the bold.

    First, the customer in the eyes of the Corporations, now a days is MORE SO right then before, due to everyone penny pinching. If I were to go into Walmart, and get someone in lets say... Electronics and they give me a slight attitude and I start screaming and acting like he just stabbed my first born son, managers would be flocking in like sharks to blood, and poor employee would probably get the axe, or at least a coaching (walmarts name for 3 strikes and your out employee policy). It's exactly this philosophy that killed America, and now Corporations TRIBBLE kiss over it. The louder you are, the more **** they shove in your hands and the more they kiss your TRIBBLE.

    Secondly, it's not hypocrisy, it's me (I agree with the article) wanting her to act like a ****ing human, not a slave owner. Everyone seems to think that just because that person is waiting you, they're below you in societal status. No, that person is making a living just like, and your making that persons day miserable by yelling and berating them for NO reason. For instance, I am in deli around here, trying to get my cheese on (i love cheese, sliced Yellow American, mmmm) and this guy (18-24 years of age) and his buddy start spewing off the order like a Drill Sergeant spitting off his 97 reasons why private so and so is a lazy, sack of TRIBBLE not worthy of being in the Military, and no surprise here, the other kid, who is working the deli, says, "I'm sorry, what else did you want after x, x, and x." Or something to that nature, and the customer goes bananas because he couldn't remember a simple order, blah blah blah, and if I wasn't in uniform, I would have really said something.


    So, in summation, that article really defines some of the STO community. Unlike JG Wentworth who lets you use your money when you need it, you get what you get when Cryptic gets it to you, and you should be grateful they're even updating the game at all, when they are under no agreement to do so. They could just maintain the server and walk away and say that's all you get. But they're doing bug fixes, content, and tons of customer service, and ya'll go banana's on them because you can't set your phasers to fabulous, or put mini skirts on your female BOs and **** it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    ELITE-Kaos wrote: »
    So instead of 'The customer is always right' you'd prefere 'The Company is always right'? No thanks, that'll never happen here in the EU :D

    If the attitude were to change in the USA then get ready a brave new world to become a reality.

    In keeping with some of the opinions expressed above, I don't think the article is getting at the idea that that "company is always right". The issue is not with the fact that people may have complaints and dislikes, but with the manner in which they are presented. The truth of the matter seems to be that many of the complaint posts in these forums conjure up the mental image of a child throwing a temper-tantrum.

    People here may, and likely do, have valid complaints, but when those complaints are presented in a manner that smacks of immaturity, it really undercuts the point they are trying to make.

    You may not like this game or how it is being handled. Fine. Feel free to express yourself, but there's really no need to do it with the textual equivalent of screaming, yelling, and giving ultimatums.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Rikaelus wrote: »
    The problem is when people have obviously improper expectations. With a situation like a coffee shop things are a bit simpler but even that doesn't forgive rudeness. There have been times I've requested compensation for service outage and the like but I did so calmly. A few times I've had compensation offered even when not asking for it, and I imagine it's partly because I was polite up until that point.

    A customer has a right to demand proper service but I believe we, as a society, also have the duty to demand decency.

    Now in the realm of MMOs... many of the people who complain or make demands haven't the slightest idea how the product works or what "proper service" is. Most of here aren't experts but it's easy to identify ignorance. Some people I've seen complain openly acknowledge they don't know anything about the technology but still make improper demands of the service. Those people, thankfully, will be hammered down pretty hard on these forums.

    But I'll say what I often do for clarity. I have no problem with ignorance. If people come here and ask questions I'll happily answer them to the best of my ability. However... if they're rude and demanding and they're obviously ignorant... I'll go attack dog on them. I bully the bullies. I'm proud of it.

    Some valid points however what we're really talking about is someone being considerate vs demanding proper service.

    Think about what you are saying here. You are saying, the average person who goes to Walmart, buys this game, and goes home to play it, should also learn the inner workings of an mmo to be savvy enough to understand the difference between acceptable downtime and unacceptable?

    Personally I like it when companies consider *any* downtime to be unacceptable. AKA: ISP's, Hospital Networks (That would be me), and military networks.

    Now, I'm not saying that Crypic doesn't take downtime seriously but in as much as *we* the customers need to understand that this may happen, Cryptic also has to understand that they will get hard feelings whenever downtime occurs. I don't think it's my responsibility as a customer to understand what it takes to make my chocolate mousse, send letters to where they need to get to, or how my mmo works. I just know that I have an expectation for the services I am paying for are met, or are not met.

    I agree with you that when they are not met, that it does not give me license to act like a rude jackass.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Debaser wrote: »
    Bump! for some light reading while the server is down!


    I read it, When I'm forced to go out to work I have to deal with the public, the vast majority are normal people and now and again Ill get someone who is cool and easy to get along with followed by a "woman in a fur coat" type.
    at the end of the night you dont remember the cool guy/girl you had a laugh with you remember the idiot who moans about anything and everything.

    and... lmao did you read the other stuff by that guy?? read the American Idol Contestant Sings a Song About Child Molestation

    I like this guy.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    just know that I have an expectation for the services I am paying for are met, or are not met.

    For an MMO you will and must have some downtime, somewhere along the line. It's unrealistic to expect the game (which is run by a private company) to be up all the time.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Absolutely. "The Customer is Always Right" is a plague upon commerce.

    **** you, Harry Gordon Selfridge, Sr. (January 11, 1858 – May 8, 1947) for unleashing this mess upon us.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    losghost wrote: »
    Some valid points however what we're really talking about is someone being considerate vs demanding proper service.

    Part of the problem is that companies -- because of the way that idiot management has ruined generations of consumers -- is paranoid sometimes to even set expectations that differ from these fool companies that ply the YOU ARE RIGHT WE ARE SCUM attitude toward customers. When you get into games of percentages, you'll always have one company willing to sell out everyone for that one extra tiny sale. Like a virus this entitlement culture spreads back out again.

    "The customer is always right" nonsense is like athlete's foot or jock itch or any other little tinea fungus--50% of us carry them, and once we have them we have them for life in small or large bursts of stupid no matter what we do to squash them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    If every Wal Mart employee that was ever rude,sarcastic,or idiotic to a customer lived in mortal fear of 'their manager', they wouldn't be idiotic, rude or sarcastic in the first place. I personally love it when some mouthbreather freaks out over a mistake at some fast food place and then demands that the wage slave 'fix it again,only right'. ...yeah,Id trust that new burger.

    If your goal as a customer is to vent on some stock kid, or make someone embarrassed by a lipservice scolding done in front of you, by all means make a scene.
    If your goal is to have a dispute settled on your extra pickles/no pickles ,walmart didnt honor their price guarentee, your new car has a scratch on it under the door label...talk to them and explain why you're angry and what you would like them to do about it first.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Oh joy like-minded people. It's so nice to know I'm not the only one who gets cheesed-off by people with an over-inflated sense of entitlement. I always liked how in the old movies I watched with my dad people were polite even when they were insulting their enemies. Maybe if the penalties for being rude were the same as the penalties for the physical responses they tend to inspire people would be more polite =) ...ah well, wishful thinking.
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