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Bravo Cryptic!

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I have to say I am very impressed. It is one thing to completely ignore the now 3 rather lengthy posts about the skill cap.

It's another to edit one for content guidelines AND STILL not even give us a little "hey guys we're not ignoring you, we are discussing what to do about it."

And please do not give me that nonsense of 'it's not my department, I only monitor the forums.'
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Why do you assume they must be discussing it?
    They may have... I don't know... made their decision? If so then the number of threads could simply be irrelevant.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    You need some fresh air, have you taken a walk outside lately? It's refreshing and good for your health... mental and physical.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Rikaelus wrote: »
    Why do you assume they must be discussing it?
    They may have... I don't know... made their decision? If so then the number of threads could simply be irrelevant.

    Well if they have made their decision, it would be nice for them to say so.

    And in regards to my health, yes, I do go outside and whatnot. I happen to enjoy getting frustrated at Cryptic and similar figures.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    They have already stated their reasons for doing this, while many people think it would be great Cryptic apparently didn't expect people to level this fast or something. Regardless the decision has been made, they have stated their reasons. And while it may change in the future it will not be soon or because of three posts lengthy or otherwise.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    EulerPi wrote: »
    I have to say I am very impressed. It is one thing to completely ignore the now 3 rather lengthy posts about the skill cap.

    It's another to edit one for content guidelines AND STILL not even give us a little "hey guys we're not ignoring you, we are discussing what to do about it."

    And please do not give me that nonsense of 'it's not my department, I only monitor the forums.'

    Gonna call foul on this one…

    If this is anything like the boards I’ve moderated in the past, there are DEVs for the forums and IN the games. Now it is possible, not having a player/moderator base that the DEVs are one in the same… this means, however, they are busy working on the game and not monitoring the forums as much.

    In any event – this issue of information NOT being shared with the player base is common in nearly every MMO – at least at first. Even on the boards I’ve modded I, and other community leaders, would regularly BEG the DEVs to share info. And they did, albeit sporadically.

    More to the point, there IS something to be said of information not being shared by those working on the game and those moderating the forums so the “it’s not my department” excuse, albeit flimsy, is valid.

    I know it doesn't help the issue but it is what it is.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    They have already stated their reasons for doing this, while many people think it would be great Cryptic apparently didn't expect people to level this fast or something. Regardless the decision has been made, they have stated their reasons. And while it may change in the future it will not be soon or because of three posts lengthy or otherwise.

    No. They did not give there reasons as to whether or not they actually put thought into 60,700 points. They put an "ask cryptic" up that they have completely ignored. And they did *not* give reasons in that SINGLE lame post someone who admittedly doesn't work on the game gave (stormshade?).

    The skill tree is broken. Hopelessly broken. When they make a MAJOR change a week before launch, I expect more than a "because we said so" justification. Why do the Tier 3, 4, and 5 skills that provide the same benefit cost different amounts of skill points? That is a question that cannot possibly have a justification for because it makes NO SENSE.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    So, they aren't answering questions in the forums......
    they aren't fixing the issues
    they aren't answering tickets
    they aren't answering the phone
    what are they doing?

    -gets vision of them rolling around in piles of money sent in from all the lifers and giggling-
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    EulerPi wrote: »
    Well if they have made their decision, it would be nice for them to say so.

    They kinda "said so" by making the change.
    Discussion usually comes before the change. They're under not obligation to think about it further afterward or tell us what's already been made quite obvious.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Preirin wrote:
    If this is anything like the boards I’ve moderated in the past, there are DEVs for the forums and IN the games. Now it is possible, not having a player/moderator base that the DEVs are one in the same… this means, however, they are busy working on the game and not monitoring the forums as much.

    Dstahl is posting on this forum regularly. I think he's someone important, not just a moderator.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Rikaelus wrote: »
    They kinda "said so" by making the change.
    Discussion usually comes before the change. They're under not obligation to think about it further afterward or tell us what's already been made quite obvious.

    Except at the very least they could say that they think it isn't broken. And making a change doesn't mean that it isn't broken, as they did launched even though it was broken.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    rdhddva wrote: »
    -gets vision of them rolling around in piles of money sent in from all the lifers and giggling-

    Theyre getting lessons on how to kill a game from Bill Roper while he also teaches them to love sushi
    EulerPi wrote: »
    Except at the very least they could say that they think it isn't broken. And making a change doesn't mean that it isn't broken, as they did launched even though it was broken.

    If they say its broken, theyre acceping liability and responsibility for knowing it was broken and having launched it anyways. Corporations aernt known for wanting to do things of this nature.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    They said they needed to change the system, they changed it.

    All the skill cap threads in the world isn't going to change this - this is how it's gonna be.

    Now they might adjust the skills, they might adjust the total skill points you can earn, they will introduce respecs but regarding the skill cap, it's done - get over it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Skillz kap iz srz biznez!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    EulerPi wrote: »
    No. They did not give there reasons as to whether or not they actually put thought into 60,700 points.

    The reason isn't that hard to figure out. The skill point curve had already been set, and given there is currently no content for players above Admiral 5, they capped it there until new content can be created.
    The skill tree is broken. Hopelessly broken. When they make a MAJOR change a week before launch, I expect more than a "because we said so" justification.

    They didn't make any major changes to the skill tree before launch. They just created a level/skill cap, most likely for the aforementioned reasons.
    Why do the Tier 3, 4, and 5 skills that provide the same benefit cost different amounts of skill points? That is a question that cannot possibly have a justification for because it makes NO SENSE.

    If you're talking about the specific weapon type skills, they don't provide the "same" benefit. They each benefit different types of weapons, and the weapon types that are improved by higher level skills are more potent in some way than ones below them, or so it is intended. If it turns out that this is not the case in practice, then it isn't a failure of the skill tree, but an indication that weapon types need some additional tweaking.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Liden wrote:
    You need some fresh air, have you taken a walk outside lately? It's refreshing and good for your health... mental and physical.

    Unless youre in Michigan, then you might end up with pneumonia or frostbite. >.>
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    They had unlimited skill points, they then changed it to a limited system. This means that they did discuss it and did reason it out and decide against a capless system.

    The fact that EVERYTHING doe snot give bonuses to the next level skill makes sense if you look at the way the skill tree is currently set up, in a NON-linear fashion.

    A bonus to skills that are more affective (even at the same bonus percentage) would, should, and does cost more than skills that are not as affective. The issue also turns to how many points will you actively choose to invest for the highest skill type and if you should even go for that skill type at all? Willing to stick to regular phasers to save skill points so you can have tougher torpedoes? Or do you prefer fancy phasers and no torps at all?

    They've explained the decision before and they have no reason to repeat themselves. Most people tend to NOT want to have to explain each and every action 15 to 20 times.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I think its kinda funny...

    Is there a skill cap?

    Yes.

    So they made a decision?

    Uh.... yah, thers a skill cap in place.

    Well, I don't like that decision, so they must still be thinking about it, right?

    Ummm... Right. Sure they are. Don't hold your breath now... mmmmmkay?


    P.S. The user defined weapon color issue... yah they made a decision on that too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    EulerPi wrote: »
    Except at the very least they could say that they think it isn't broken.

    Why?
    Would you expect them to say this about every component in the game they think isn't broken?

    Things working as intended is the status quo. It's really not necessary to confirm the status quo.

    It's when things are broken that they would mention they're fixing it or planning to. They haven't. They discussed it, made decision, enacted the decision, and have said nothing since. There's no evidence of it being anything other than status quo; working as intended.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Rikaelus wrote: »
    Why do you assume they must be discussing it?
    They may have... I don't know... made their decision? If so then the number of threads could simply be irrelevant.

    There are other issues more important than skill caps.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    EulerPi wrote: »
    Except at the very least they could say that they think it isn't broken. And making a change doesn't mean that it isn't broken, as they did launched even though it was broken.
    I would really hate to see the devs spend time on every single thing that comes up having to tell us that things that aren't broken ... aren't broken.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Tigorius wrote:
    I would really hate to see the devs spend time on every single thing that comes up having to tell us that things that aren't broken ... aren't broken.

    Heh. Says you. *Many* think the skill tree IS broken.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Preirin wrote:
    Gonna call foul on this one…

    If this is anything like the boards I’ve moderated in the past, there are DEVs for the forums and IN the games. Now it is possible, not having a player/moderator base that the DEVs are one in the same… this means, however, they are busy working on the game and not monitoring the forums as much.

    In any event – this issue of information NOT being shared with the player base is common in nearly every MMO – at least at first. Even on the boards I’ve modded I, and other community leaders, would regularly BEG the DEVs to share info. And they did, albeit sporadically.

    More to the point, there IS something to be said of information not being shared by those working on the game and those moderating the forums so the “it’s not my department” excuse, albeit flimsy, is valid.

    I know it doesn't help the issue but it is what it is.

    All that you say sounds nice and all, but it does not matter one little bit to the OP.

    Perception is everything, The OP perceives Cryptic is ignoring him, so for him, they ARE ignoring him.

    I feel the same way regarding the autofire issue. They may be working on it behind the scenes, but in my perception, they are ignoring me and other posters and being lazy.

    The only way to beat those perceptions is with communication, If Cryptic cannot see that, they will eventually sink when the general perception from the players gets to be too negative.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Tigorius wrote:
    I would really hate to see the devs spend time on every single thing that comes up having to tell us that things that aren't broken ... aren't broken.

    Perception, we perceive the skill tree is broken, so for us, it IS broken. Perception is a fickle mistress.

    Anyway, the skill tree is not broken, but it was not designed with a skill cap in mind. They should have redesigned the skill tree when they decided to change to a skill cap. So, we have a skill tree designed for infinite skill points, and a skill cap in place... Kind of does not fit... And no communication from Cryptic, customer perception going down the drain... Go go Cryptic!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Perception, we perceive the skill tree is broken, so for us, it IS broken. Perception is a fickle mistress.

    Anyway, the skill tree is not broken, but it was not designed with a skill cap in mind. They should have redesigned the skill tree when they decided to change to a skill cap. So, we have a skill tree designed for infinite skill points, and a skill cap in place... Kind of does not fit... And no communication from Cryptic, customer perception going down the drain... Go go Cryptic!

    I merely point out that I just believe designed for capless with a cap on it.... well that is broken. Especially without the ability to respec.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Let me ask everyone who thinks that having an unlimited skill cap is an absolute necessity.

    What are you going to do with all of those skills now that you have filled them all to the brim? What advantage does that prefer upon you all? Does having all nines in engineering make your science captain more effective? Does having healing skills make your tactician a more effective killer? Do you really need to have 9's in all skills?

    I don't recall James Kirk telling Scotty what to do in Engineering, or Jean Luc Picard telling Dr. Beverly Crusher what to do (in fact, he had to ask her how to keep her alive in one episode of TNG) or anybody stepping outside of their professions to tell others how to do their jobs.

    So please explain to me why it is necessary to have an unlimited skills tree? I want to understand so that we at least have an explanation from those who find themselves needing to create threads on this subject (mind you its not a lot of them but they crop up like weeds and spraying for them rarely helps :D J/K.)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    skill cap stays, disscussion over, no amount of griping will change it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Preirin wrote:
    Gonna call foul on this one…

    If this is anything like the boards I’ve moderated in the past, there are DEVs for the forums and IN the games. Now it is possible, not having a player/moderator base that the DEVs are one in the same… this means, however, they are busy working on the game and not monitoring the forums as much.

    In any event – this issue of information NOT being shared with the player base is common in nearly every MMO – at least at first. Even on the boards I’ve modded I, and other community leaders, would regularly BEG the DEVs to share info. And they did, albeit sporadically.

    More to the point, there IS something to be said of information not being shared by those working on the game and those moderating the forums so the “it’s not my department” excuse, albeit flimsy, is valid.

    I know it doesn't help the issue but it is what it is.

    Indeed, this man speaks truth. I have been a Forum Administrator, Moderator, and Managing Editor. I know how Gaming Forums work (and how they should work). This guy here is spot on.
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