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If everyone on a mission dies, the mission should reset

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Part of why this game is so easy is that if you die, you can just zip back over to the fight that killed you and finish it up and carry on. I think you could make a good argument stating that it's a waste of power slots to have any sort of healing abilities -- just die! Death is the quickest way to heal back to full.

In most games, dying sets you back to a previous save point, which is sometimes the start of the mission. Those 15 ships you previously killed? They're back. You died. Mission reset. Learn not to die if you want to complete the mission.


STO needs "fail conditions". You need to be able to LOSE. You need to be able to fail at your mission. Maybe you can retry it, but you have to start over. Without this, the game is pretty meaningless.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    No.

    10chars
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Sounds good to me. Lack of a death penalty seems more to be a lack of the devs' imagination than anything at this point
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Uh, no. Why not? I have multiple missions and I like to get through them all and still have some decent time to do other things. There's so many different missions you get to help you rank up, that I don't want to get stuck learning the same lesson from a mission over and over again. You get it? This is a hobby, not a CAREER, solider!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Slamz wrote:
    Part of why this game is so easy is that if you die, you can just zip back over to the fight that killed you and finish it up and carry on. I think you could make a good argument stating that it's a waste of power slots to have any sort of healing abilities -- just die! Death is the quickest way to heal back to full.

    In most games, dying sets you back to a previous save point, which is sometimes the start of the mission. Those 15 ships you previously killed? They're back. You died. Mission reset. Learn not to die if you want to complete the mission.


    STO needs "fail conditions". You need to be able to LOSE. You need to be able to fail at your mission. Maybe you can retry it, but you have to start over. Without this, the game is pretty meaningless.

    Here is what you do. Everytime you die, delete your highest level item. That way it has lots o meaning for you. Simple eh?>
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I don't think the entire mission should reset, but... say if you're fighting a group of 3 ships, kill all but the last one, and then everyone dies... the other two ships should respawn.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Torchwoods wrote: »
    Here is what you do. Everytime you die, delete your highest level item. That way it has lots o meaning for you. Simple eh?>

    It's not the same for them because everybody else has to suffer too!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Some sort of challenge would be nice.

    As to not wanting to "learn" the same lesson over and over again... maybe you aren't learning it then?

    The combat in the game is pretty much brainless so any lessons to be learned would be basic. Every MMO has some sort of encounter that you need to learn from, the Crystal Entity is an example of how it can be included in STO... as well as how it can be included poorly.

    I watch TV while playing STO, I even answered the phone during a fight the other day and left my PC because I figured either my away team would win for me, or I would die and reset back 20 feet. No biggie.

    There needs to be some death penalty... and if a death penalty conflicts with the game as it stands then maybe the game should change to accommodate it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    It's not the same for them because everybody else has to suffer too!

    I know. If people want extra penalties, they should create them for themselves. Rather then forcing them on everyone.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Uh, no. Why not? I have multiple missions and I like to get through them all and still have some decent time to do other things. There's so many different missions you get to help you rank up, that I don't want to get stuck learning the same lesson from a mission over and over again. You get it? This is a hobby, not a CAREER, solider!

    This is funny when everyone is crying cause the game is so short lol
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Some sort of challenge would be nice.

    As to not wanting to "learn" the same lesson over and over again... maybe you aren't learning it then?

    The combat in the game is pretty much brainless so any lessons to be learned would be basic. Every MMO has some sort of encounter that you need to learn from, the Crystal Entity is an example of how it can be included in STO... as well as how it can be included poorly.

    I watch TV while playing STO, I even answered the phone during a fight the other day and left my PC because I figured either my away team would win for me, or I would die and reset back 20 feet. No biggie.

    There needs to be some death penalty... and if a death penalty conflicts with the game as it stands then maybe the game should change to accommodate it.

    There can be a penalty. Delete some stuff if you die.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    for missions where you're alone.. yes

    for multiple players in the mission... maybe?

    i agree there needs to be a harsher death penalty.. not harsh live EVE, but it's a joke as it is right now
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I don't think the entire mission should reset, but... say if you're fighting a group of 3 ships, kill all but the last one, and then everyone dies... the other two ships should respawn.

    /agree with this
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    speaking as someone who dies in just about every fight, no way! Often the only way I can beat an enemy group is because in the previous few lives I've managed to whittle them down a couple at a time. I'd never have gotten above Ensign 1 if there was a death penalty. (yes I know you should get enough SP during the tutorial to lvl past that.) And to those trolls who are going to tell me to find another game because STO shouldn't be for casual gamers, Go back to playing WoW or something because I have been waiting for this game for years and I am here to stay. It is a casual MMORPG for casual gamers. I agree, if you want a death penalty do it yourself. Maybe it would be a service to the rest of us if you deleted your character every time you died.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    ACES_HIGH wrote: »
    speaking as someone who dies in just about every fight, no way! Often the only way I can beat an enemy group is because in the previous few lives I've managed to whittle them down a couple at a time. I'd never have gotten above Ensign 1 if there was a death penalty. (yes I know you should get enough SP during the tutorial to lvl past that.)

    How are you dieing every fight? are you not managing your shields at all?

    i can see dieing every ground fight easily, just fire one of those cone attacks first and every enemy is on you like white on rice.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I don't think the entire mission should reset, but... say if you're fighting a group of 3 ships, kill all but the last one, and then everyone dies... the other two ships should respawn.

    agreed.or perhaps there should be some sort of internal timer where if you don't defeat the ships fast enough. they call in reinforcements. Essentially it would be the ships respawning but would make more sense if you got a message that reinforcements have arrived.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I don't know why folks need a game mechanic in order to be punished.
    You can punish yourselves, you know.

    And personally... for me... just dying is punishment enough. That's when the ego takes a hit. Anything on top of that is meaningless and a waste of time.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Would not work. people would just game the system by having one member hang back so you could all respawn And the AI is just not smart enough to realise that and go after the player who hangs back. Just my 2 cents
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Slackjaw wrote:
    Would not work. people would just game the system by having one member hang back so you could all respawn And the AI is just not smart enough to realise that and go after the player who hangs back. Just my 2 cents

    throw in no respawning till either the encounter is dead or resets and your good.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Jayrune wrote:
    throw in no respawning till either the encounter is dead or resets and your good.

    How about just making the AI a little smarter. This game is stuck on easy as it is.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Uh, no. Why not? I have multiple missions and I like to get through them all and still have some decent time to do other things. There's so many different missions you get to help you rank up, that I don't want to get stuck learning the same lesson from a mission over and over again. You get it? This is a hobby, not a CAREER, solider!
    If you're still dying, then you clearly have not learned the lesson of the mission.

    Do it over until you don't die, then we'll know that you've learned.



    This thread isn't about death penalties, it's about games that are impossible to fail at and therefore require very little skill or learning to progress through. Making you lose some progress is a standard gaming technique.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Slamz wrote:
    If you're still dying, then you clearly have not learned the lesson of the mission.

    Do it over until you don't die, then we'll know that you've learned.



    This thread isn't about death penalties, it's about games that are impossible to fail at and therefore require very little skill or learning to progress through. Making you lose some progress is a standard gaming technique.

    I'm sure they'll have one down the road where you probably lose credits in a way, but seriously not having a death penalty doesn't break the game. I agree with one poster that said if you don't the fact that there is no death penalty, create one for yourself.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    It's not about a death penalty "for myself", it's about creating some challenge while keeping the playing field level. If you agree that "deleting an item" is a good death penalty then what's good for the goose is good for the gander: implement it for everyone equally.


    Or the other counter-argument is to just suggest that Cryptic implements a command called "/win".

    If you don't like dying or death penalties or challenges then you can just type "/win" and you will instantly be promoted to level 45 Admiral with the best gear in the game, and then you can quit. It sounds like that's what a lot of you want. The only difference between the current game and the "/win" command is that the "/win" command would be slightly faster.

    Because there's nothing stopping the worst, dumbest players from making level 45 Admiral and obtaining top gear. There is no possible way to fail.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Slamz wrote:
    Part of why this game is so easy is that if you die, you can just zip back over to the fight that killed you and finish it up and carry on. I think you could make a good argument stating that it's a waste of power slots to have any sort of healing abilities -- just die! Death is the quickest way to heal back to full.

    In most games, dying sets you back to a previous save point, which is sometimes the start of the mission. Those 15 ships you previously killed? They're back. You died. Mission reset. Learn not to die if you want to complete the mission.


    STO needs "fail conditions". You need to be able to LOSE. You need to be able to fail at your mission. Maybe you can retry it, but you have to start over. Without this, the game is pretty meaningless.

    I read this as more of a call for a death penalty but I would be so mad if they implemented this right now on the away team missions. If somehow they can fix my Bridge Officers inability to navigate simple terrain obstacle and doorways and also not roll into a group of enemies that I'm not ready to fight yet for no explainable reason then I may not mind it.

    Suggestion to Cryptic:

    Please place all Bridge Officers back in remedial Academy classes. Below are the topics to be covered:

    Doorways 101: How to walk through the doorway without trying to walk through the wall first.

    Combat Tactics 101: Appropriate Uses for Evasive Maneuvers

    Tribble Petting 101: Starfleet Code and in combat Tribble Petting: When to say NO
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