Except the data does not support this, the numbers of subscribers go up, the revenues go up. Your confusing the playing field today witht he playing field ten years ago. Games failed back then too. We now live in a world where 300k subs was amazing numbers and now its almost niche.
The MMO genre is far from dead. The problem is that the developers are just trying to cash in and bring out a bunch of low quality TRIBBLE out there to try to get a piece of the pie.
This will go down in a while, when more options come and MMOs die left and right so they will have to improve quality in other to survive.
Cigars are not as addicting as Cigarettes. People still enjoy them from time to time because of the different styles and flavors.
This is strangely very accurate and well put.
@OP
The trend is the opposite. More and more games are adopting massive multiplayer aspects. Even FPS games and simulator games. Just because a game has 50-100k subscribers doesnt mean its dead. WoW is a very unusual animal. Before EQ was the top dog barely with 1million subs. DAOC in 2nd with about 200k in its prime. Anything with more than 50k IMO is a success. The only problem with low subs is if there are separate severs so a lower population takes a bigger hit.
WoW aside, every MMO game that seems to come out just doesnt seem to be worth a damn. Is this a dying genre like the "rock band" series?
My personal opinion is that too many companies have used the genera to make cookie-cutter experiences....
There are too many pre-fab MMO's out there that big giant companies are sponsoring now, that are unwilling to innovate the genera... No pioneering going-on...just selling brands...
The best MMO's are made uniquely by genera-specific companies with a genuine interest in making them... Sony, Atari (apparently) are just not all that interested or inspired by the idea of making an online world ...they just want a pony in the race... They want those monthly fees on their balance sheet...
The art of the genera has been Warhol-ed by opportunism, and the dreamers that pushed the boundaries are gone from the scene...and that is truly ...truly sad.... as there was so much more that should be done with them...
Nope, alive and kicking. MMO's evolve and grow over time. Heck compare Ultima Online to anything out now. The MMO will never go away.
And both this and Champions are alive, kicking, and relatively well off. Because even if Cryptics claim of 1million game accounts includes canceled accounts (as I think it probably does) those are still very solid numbers for a game. CoX has always hovered between 180k users and is considered successful and has been around for years. And there are games that have survived with even less.
I am really looking forward to the Warhammer 40K MMO even if its is probably 2-3 years off.
The MMO genre is far from dead. The problem is that the developers are just trying to cash in and bring out a bunch of low quality TRIBBLE out there to try to get a piece of the pie.
This will go down in a while, when more options come and MMOs die left and right so they will have to improve quality in other to survive.
I guess youre right,,,people see dollar signs but are releasing TRIBBLE to get the dollars
Nope, alive and kicking. MMO's evolve and grow over time. Heck compare Ultima Online to anything out now. The MMO will never go away.
And both this and Champions are alive, kicking, and relatively well off. Because even if Cryptics claim of 1million game accounts includes canceled accounts (as I think it probably does) those are still very solid numbers for a game. CoX has always hovered between 180k users and is considered successful and has been around for years. And there are games that have survived with even less.
I am really looking forward to the Warhammer 40K MMO even if its is probably 2-3 years off.
I think STO has a few innovations that I'm rather fond of, but it's design is pretty pre-fabricated... What are some innovations or real artistry that you would point to in any of released MMO's in the past two years?
I say released because the marketing departments really oversell ... so what they say is not what is released (and not just in STO...)
mmos have definitely changed in many ways. 200k+ subs used to be considered quite successful. gameplay used to be camping mob spawns and it took several months of playing several hours per day to get to high level.
now most mmo's sell more boxes and lose more subs in the first 3 months than previous mmo's had total subs in their entire lives.
the open world concept has become less and less of a standard. instancing and rails have become the norm.
in some ways mmo's remain the same. one kind of grind traded for another. repetitive gameplay.
The most latest Star Trek gaming for computers. I've never been into MMO's and only got it because I really am into Star Trek. STO is OK but needs more missions involving exploring, and the ability to create your own bridge crew, especially in the early stages. STO should also allow you to earn credits/points more easily. But the game is good. The subscription costs are a bit on the high side. But cryptic studios devoloped this game so quickly compared to perpetual. STO for my experience doesn't consume as much internet usage as I thought when I check my broadband internet usage from my telecomunications company. Especially for those on 3GB and 10GB broadband monthly plans. Patches, server down, connecting. Also STO should soon introduce the ability to create your own empire - a solar system, a planetary population, and your own small fleet of starships with customizable crew, where you can invite others to trade, or to explore other areas of space. But the game is good considering how fast Crytic was able to release it. Wish you could progress to higher ranks much easily so you can choose more bridge officers and better starships.
The MMO industry isn't dead yet. But it DOES need a wakeup call. It needs to recognise that the days are gone whereby dev companies can get away with putting as little as possible into their games in the hope that the playerbase will remain loyal long enough for them to implement more. That sort of mass loyalty is long gone simply because theres a lot more competitors out there now than ever before.
WoW was probably one of the last MMO's which had the opportunity to be fleshed out and polished prior to launch. Its launch was by no means perfect and had server stability issues but nevertheless, Blizzard managed to produce a product that was far greater in quality at launch than many others that came after it.
Personally, I don't blame the fact that they all jumped on the "fantasy MMO" bandwagon OR that they used tried and tested leveling and character advancement systems. People enjoy these facets of the games. They expect them.
I do however blame the many issues that plague post-wow mmo's on:
Poor management of the projects from the very beginning
Clearly unreasonable timescales placed on them.
Lack of understanding of their intended playerbase
STO was released after only 2 years, and it shows. The lack of variety in mission types and the lack of depth in gameplay highlights this. These flaws have been covered up by giving each mission more "XP" than is usual. Thus players are burning through content at an extremely fast rate (in comparison to other MMOs)
Vanguards gameworld was radically redesigned only a few months prior to its launch, setting development back months. Never the less it launched in a poorly developed state. The devs were then fighting the server stability issues, under-developed gameplay and lay-offs due to mis-management.
AOC decided to try to veer away from the tried and tested itemisation used in progression and that set the game back at least 1 year.
These are just some examples. In short, MMO's have to get it right and polished BEFORE launch, otherwise they're going to be forever behind the advancement of the playerbase. And when the MMO devs are constantly behind in development, that's when people jump to another MMO.
WoW aside, every MMO game that seems to come out just doesnt seem to be worth a damn. Is this a dying genre like the "rock band" series?
It will soon be taken over by the "real" game companies when they start making MMOs.
Bioware are already on it and many other huge companies have said they have plans for future MMOs.
Companies like Cryptic dont really have a future I think. Customers usually dont react very well to getting ripped off when there are competition. Right now, there aint much competition in the MMO market, thats why Cryptic can release a half-done game and make people pay full price.
It will soon be taken over by the "real" game companies when they start making MMOs.
Bioware are already on it and many other huge companies have said they have plans for future MMOs.
Companies like Cryptic dont really have a future I think. Customers usually dont react very well to getting ripped off when there are competition. Right now, there aint much competition in the MMO market, thats why Cryptic can release a half-done game and make people pay full price.
On the contrary, theres lots of competition. Just not much that's worth a great deal different to that of Cryptics own product. At the moment, we are seeing a lot of "disposable" MMO's. Ones that the devs seem clearly happy with not being especially good, just bearly adequate.
I find it amusing to see devs respond to critisism about quality and timescales with "Well we are happy with it" and "it will be done when its done". This kind of relaxed response does NOT send a good signal to their customers. But many MMO devs seem happy to do so nonetheless. There's no passion any more. Just jobs.
In my opinion, an evolution is needed in how MMOs are developed. Its time some big names from outside of the industry came in to help with development. Imagine the vision of a famous film director, coupled with the music of the likes of John Williams, and the script writing of your favourite author. Then the dev company themselves can get on with creating the game world, whilst being led and helped by professional individuals who KNOW how to create a good visual product that has depth and instills emotion in its viewer.
It will soon be taken over by the "real" game companies when they start making MMOs.
Bioware are already on it and many other huge companies have said they have plans for future MMOs.
Companies like Cryptic dont really have a future I think. Customers usually dont react very well to getting ripped off when there are competition. Right now, there aint much competition in the MMO market, thats why Cryptic can release a half-done game and make people pay full price.
This I agree with totally, It's because there isn't enough competition in this specific sub genre of MMO that we are getting ripped off.
I really lost a lot of respect for Cryptic with the way STO has been developed, I don't care that they had only two years because that's horse TRIBBLE, They wanted the $20m bonus that we all heard about they coulda pushed it back at least another 6 months to a year but they didn't.
I just hope that down the line we get a new engine and a proper game.
WoW aside, every MMO game that seems to come out just doesnt seem to be worth a damn. Is this a dying genre like the "rock band" series?
You fail to understand it is all about money. For example STO is a single player game but it is sold as mmo just because some of STO maps support x players. mmo is just better from bussiness perspective - customers pays standard $50 AND reccuring fees. There is chance customer will pay for additional content or something that requires no or very little work fe resepc, virtual cash, virtual items etc.
Back in '98-'99 Epic released Unreal Tournament fps game. Back then game was revolutionary because It was focused on multiplayer (Single player content turned out to be multiplayer maps with bots etc). They had global ranking systems, global list of servers . On each map there was up to 16 players. Sounds familiar ? yes STO is on the same level. Unreal tournament could be TRIBBLE good mmo as STO or even better. All they had to do is to implement monthly fees, allow players to buy new or better weapons for $5 each, add some new single player maps (well they released 4 bonus packs but they all were for free What a waste !)
ps. 5-10 years from now all games will use 'mmo' business model even rts , adventure, sport, action games. Hell even chess games will allow you to make 2 moves instead of one when you pay for it
pps. my english isn't perfect I know it. Doing my best
I couldn't disagree more. There were never more MMOs, or more players playing them, and the numbers are increasing. There is simply no proof (or even an indication) that MMOs are dying, unless you have some specific form of MMO in mind, which was more popular in the past.
The main point that people seem to overlook is that MMOs do not need to have millions of members to be successful. I mean, sure, the companies making and publishing these games would love to have that kind of subscription base, but even if they fail to do so, it doesn't mean the game is dead.
As long as a game is making enough money to make a profit for the company, pay staff salaries and allow maintenance and further content development, its a success.
Also, there is a number of previously unknown developers entering the MMO market, aiming to create games innovative and niche enough for a small but dedicated player base.
And lets not even go into free, CS based MMO territory.
Do I need a better argument than the fact Age of Conan is getting an expansion?
Just because recent MMOs (including this one) have totally screwed the pooch doesn't mean the genre is dead. This game is barely a MMO and will sell 500k-800k units the first month. Granted, 80% of those people will unsub in less than 3 months, but that's because the game is lacking, not because the genre is dead.
MMOs are dead in the same sense TV is for me. They are now mass market media that have nothing worthy to offer.
If you think MMOs are dead, as I do, then it means you were here long before WoW, and you belong to the spearhead crowd. We need to move on and look for the next new entertainment trends, leaving this **** behind.
MMOs are just changing, not dying. For many people who played back in the old days when UO and Everquest were fresh then today's MMOs look like a completely different game. Honestly, I think that's where a lot of the discontent with modern MMOs comes from. I'm not holding my breath for some groundbreaking change in the genre, save for perhaps Bioware's offering last year. Just like in movies and TV the cost for producing MMOs has become so prohibitive that it only makes good business sense not to take too many chances in development. Hence, we get a new iteration rather than a seminal innovation.
MMOs are just changing, not dying. For many people who played back in the old days when UO and Everquest were fresh then today's MMOs look like a completely different game. Honestly, I think that's where a lot of the discontent with modern MMOs comes from. I'm not holding my breath for some groundbreaking change in the genre, save for perhaps Bioware's offering last year. Just like in movies and TV the cost for producing MMOs has become so prohibitive that it only makes good business sense not to take too many chances in development. Hence, we get a new iteration rather than a seminal innovation.
I don't think most of us who discovered MMOs before WoW (or to be fair, even after WoW) really expect any innovation at this point, or at least I don't. I just expect them to not devolve and have fewer features than their predecessors and to not do those features they do have half assed. MMOs 5-10 years old have better auction houses and crafting systems than this game does. They have larger worlds with less instancing. It's a real shame such a great IP has been wasted on such a shallow "MMO".
Just because recent MMOs (including this one) have totally screwed the pooch doesn't mean the genre is dead. This game is barely a MMO and will sell 500k-800k units the first month. Granted, 80% of those people will unsub in less than 3 months, but that's because the game is lacking, not because the genre is dead.
No it is rather because people are not patient, and expect and MMO to launch with a 5 year Content Developmentent in par with the last MMO they were playing for the last 5 years.
This is a very unrealistic expectation...and Frankly a Catch 22, for the MMO makers, whom ever they are from wherever they come.
All MMOs start with a Core of features, and add more content and features later through ongoing development post launch.
when WoW launched it did not have battlegrounds or Some of the High end Instances and Raids, It did not have Outland or Nortrend and everything related to them, these were added 6 months + down the line through post Launch devellopment.
When SWG launched it did not have Space and many of the raids or features, it did not have Kashyyyn or Mustaphar either, these were added over time through post launch devellopment.
When UO launched, it did not have All the various Lands and Places it has now, these were added later through ongoing devellopment post launch.
When DAoC launched it did not have all the features it ended having a couple of years later, these were added later through ongoing Development post launch.
When EVE launched it did not have T2 or T3 ships and fittings, Faction Warfare, or the systems it has today, these were added later through ongoing Development post launch.
When Jumpgate Launched it did not have extensive gear, or Station ownership, it added these later through ongoing Development post Launch.
When WWIIOnline launched it did not have supply lines, parachutes, many tanks or Ships or even had all the cities actually created in its huge Map, these were added later through ongoing devellopment post Launch.
When Lineage II launched it did not have Elite Classes or Content beyond certain levels, these were added later through ongoing Development post launch.
When Vanguard Launched it had virtually nothing it has today through ongoing devellopment post launch.
When Darkfall launched it was a complete mess, and for the most part it may still be a mess, but it is still trying through ongoing development to improve itself post launch.
When Warhammer Launched it did not have stable Sieges and new lands or Extensive PVE and PVP Content it has now through ongoing devellopment post launch....etc
Like so...when STO launched it may not have all of the content that will follow in the coming months and years through ongoing devellopment post launch.
...if you are criticizing STO as 2-3 weeks post launch in this thread, then obviously your are a Newbie MMO player that has not understood what this Genre is all about and your talking without prior experience...in other words..your just whining for nothing in this thread....having realized nothing of importance or substance.
WoW aside, every MMO game that seems to come out just doesnt seem to be worth a damn. Is this a dying genre like the "rock band" series?
What really exasperates the feel of STO being far less than an mmorpg, is because its really a MMOFPS or MMOTPS (Third-Person Shooter), much like the heavily instanced, lobby-system, third-person shooter of Global Agenda.
So for more of a vet mmorpg player, I find STO lacks lasting game-play appeal, as the OP eluded to. So my take based on my Klingon experience and having explored the experience posted of others is this:
- There doesn't seem to be much respect for the Star Trek IP.
- Space is space-less. Each map is nothing more than a confining shoe-box, a small space of nothing to interact with.
- There is no game-play freedom of exploration. No exploration to other planets or discovery; again, your confined to your shoe-box instance. There's nothing dynamically to do in this game that would be reminiscent of Star Trek.
- If you do see a planet on an instanced map, there is no "away-team" capability to freely explore its surface. Its nothing more than a static inactive marble that you bounce off of in your confined instance.
- Space flight is confining and lacks freedom. There's a limited z-axis that prevents looping or gaining weapons locks on ships that are above or below, yet in front of you in many cases. It just adds to the unnecessary maneuvering of your ship.
- Space is life-less, other than the instance nodes that you bump into to enter for a ship pve encounter, or to wait in a long line of trying to perform pvp with other players; its esentially a single-player lobby system game that your forced to pay $15 a month for. If you see an opposing faction player on a system map, there is absolutely no engagement.
- Content is sorely lacking to the point where very very early on in this game, the 'instanced' pve quests are nothing more than similar repeatable maps and mobs of previous quests done; the static nature of pve and its' redundancy is astounding.
- Quest copywriting seems very week that leads to weak story engagement or sense of draw that your actually contributing to a story-arc or meaningfully contributing to federation or klingon game-play.
- Space and ground game-play combat has the most limiting, redundant, Quake 3rd-person shooter type feel of any game in the mmorpg market; its shallow.
- There is no physics to ground combat as there is no physics to space combat that factor into game-play.
- Ground and Space pvp combat amounts to a frag-fest of limited players and non-tactical or strategic importance in any respect to story or game-play in this faction vs. faction environment.
- Like a 3rd-person or first-person shooter, the player-vs-player stuff is without any game-play contributory value, other than winning a small confining map, it amounts to run, gun, die, or run,gun, win, limp, die. But your rewarded as much for being a loser as a winner; no mmoprg game-play distinction. I havent found the game-play nutrition in this yet.
- There is no reasonable complimentary opposite to winning. You win in space and on ground, you get a battery or such (a weak reward), you lose on space or on ground, you miraculously reappear next to the fight to battle like a button mashing mindless drone without consequences again. Lack of consequences to death has turned this title into a series of suicide runs for the same exact reward I get for battling tactically and strategically. The grossly equivalent rewards for those that die often is enough to leave this game.
- The community (massively multiplayer) element of this mmorpg is very fragmented (as opposed to expanded and cooperative) due to the great number of single-player feel instances. Community feels fragmented to one of those several small instanced zones that does nothing to encourage the feel of massively multiplayer entertainment.
- No alternative industry, aka, no resource gathering towards community crafting, enterprise, or merchandising elements for the federation or klingons. Would be nice if this mmorpg staple were available to players, rather than being non-existant.
I don't think most of us who discovered MMOs before WoW (or to be fair, even after WoW) really expect any innovation at this point, or at least I don't. I just expect them to not devolve and have fewer features than their predecessors and to not do those features they do have half assed. MMOs 5-10 years old have better auction houses and crafting systems than this game does. They have larger worlds with less instancing. It's a real shame such a great IP has been wasted on such a shallow "MMO".
I'm inclined to agree with much of what you say. As someone who discovered MMOs around the time of Earth and Beyond, I'm used to games having a lot more features than most MMOs release with now. Nevertheless, it's hard not to see the trend (that reaches far beyond Cryptic) of releasing MMOs that start off with a streamlined game and which build onto it after that. As others have noted, producers and developers are looking more to the 'niche' and to casual players rather than the blockbusting 'everything but the kitchen sink' style MMOs of yesteryear.
Is this a design choice, business strategy, lull in the MMO genre, or birth pangs of something new? I don't know.
As for crafting, I can only say this: Cryptic doesn't really ever do it. None of their games seem to pretend to have remotely deep crafting systems. I wasn't surprised or dismayed to find that was true in STO either.
Comments
This will go down in a while, when more options come and MMOs die left and right so they will have to improve quality in other to survive.
This is strangely very accurate and well put.
@OP
The trend is the opposite. More and more games are adopting massive multiplayer aspects. Even FPS games and simulator games. Just because a game has 50-100k subscribers doesnt mean its dead. WoW is a very unusual animal. Before EQ was the top dog barely with 1million subs. DAOC in 2nd with about 200k in its prime. Anything with more than 50k IMO is a success. The only problem with low subs is if there are separate severs so a lower population takes a bigger hit.
My personal opinion is that too many companies have used the genera to make cookie-cutter experiences....
There are too many pre-fab MMO's out there that big giant companies are sponsoring now, that are unwilling to innovate the genera... No pioneering going-on...just selling brands...
The best MMO's are made uniquely by genera-specific companies with a genuine interest in making them... Sony, Atari (apparently) are just not all that interested or inspired by the idea of making an online world ...they just want a pony in the race... They want those monthly fees on their balance sheet...
The art of the genera has been Warhol-ed by opportunism, and the dreamers that pushed the boundaries are gone from the scene...and that is truly ...truly sad.... as there was so much more that should be done with them...
Will be awesome if it ever comes back...
And both this and Champions are alive, kicking, and relatively well off. Because even if Cryptics claim of 1million game accounts includes canceled accounts (as I think it probably does) those are still very solid numbers for a game. CoX has always hovered between 180k users and is considered successful and has been around for years. And there are games that have survived with even less.
I am really looking forward to the Warhammer 40K MMO even if its is probably 2-3 years off.
I guess youre right,,,people see dollar signs but are releasing TRIBBLE to get the dollars
I think STO has a few innovations that I'm rather fond of, but it's design is pretty pre-fabricated... What are some innovations or real artistry that you would point to in any of released MMO's in the past two years?
I say released because the marketing departments really oversell ... so what they say is not what is released (and not just in STO...)
now most mmo's sell more boxes and lose more subs in the first 3 months than previous mmo's had total subs in their entire lives.
the open world concept has become less and less of a standard. instancing and rails have become the norm.
in some ways mmo's remain the same. one kind of grind traded for another. repetitive gameplay.
WoW was probably one of the last MMO's which had the opportunity to be fleshed out and polished prior to launch. Its launch was by no means perfect and had server stability issues but nevertheless, Blizzard managed to produce a product that was far greater in quality at launch than many others that came after it.
Personally, I don't blame the fact that they all jumped on the "fantasy MMO" bandwagon OR that they used tried and tested leveling and character advancement systems. People enjoy these facets of the games. They expect them.
I do however blame the many issues that plague post-wow mmo's on:
STO was released after only 2 years, and it shows. The lack of variety in mission types and the lack of depth in gameplay highlights this. These flaws have been covered up by giving each mission more "XP" than is usual. Thus players are burning through content at an extremely fast rate (in comparison to other MMOs)
Vanguards gameworld was radically redesigned only a few months prior to its launch, setting development back months. Never the less it launched in a poorly developed state. The devs were then fighting the server stability issues, under-developed gameplay and lay-offs due to mis-management.
AOC decided to try to veer away from the tried and tested itemisation used in progression and that set the game back at least 1 year.
These are just some examples. In short, MMO's have to get it right and polished BEFORE launch, otherwise they're going to be forever behind the advancement of the playerbase. And when the MMO devs are constantly behind in development, that's when people jump to another MMO.
It will soon be taken over by the "real" game companies when they start making MMOs.
Bioware are already on it and many other huge companies have said they have plans for future MMOs.
Companies like Cryptic dont really have a future I think. Customers usually dont react very well to getting ripped off when there are competition. Right now, there aint much competition in the MMO market, thats why Cryptic can release a half-done game and make people pay full price.
On the contrary, theres lots of competition. Just not much that's worth a great deal different to that of Cryptics own product. At the moment, we are seeing a lot of "disposable" MMO's. Ones that the devs seem clearly happy with not being especially good, just bearly adequate.
I find it amusing to see devs respond to critisism about quality and timescales with "Well we are happy with it" and "it will be done when its done". This kind of relaxed response does NOT send a good signal to their customers. But many MMO devs seem happy to do so nonetheless. There's no passion any more. Just jobs.
In my opinion, an evolution is needed in how MMOs are developed. Its time some big names from outside of the industry came in to help with development. Imagine the vision of a famous film director, coupled with the music of the likes of John Williams, and the script writing of your favourite author. Then the dev company themselves can get on with creating the game world, whilst being led and helped by professional individuals who KNOW how to create a good visual product that has depth and instills emotion in its viewer.
This I agree with totally, It's because there isn't enough competition in this specific sub genre of MMO that we are getting ripped off.
I really lost a lot of respect for Cryptic with the way STO has been developed, I don't care that they had only two years because that's horse TRIBBLE, They wanted the $20m bonus that we all heard about they coulda pushed it back at least another 6 months to a year but they didn't.
I just hope that down the line we get a new engine and a proper game.
You fail to understand it is all about money. For example STO is a single player game but it is sold as mmo just because some of STO maps support x players. mmo is just better from bussiness perspective - customers pays standard $50 AND reccuring fees. There is chance customer will pay for additional content or something that requires no or very little work fe resepc, virtual cash, virtual items etc.
Back in '98-'99 Epic released Unreal Tournament fps game. Back then game was revolutionary because It was focused on multiplayer (Single player content turned out to be multiplayer maps with bots etc). They had global ranking systems, global list of servers . On each map there was up to 16 players. Sounds familiar ? yes STO is on the same level. Unreal tournament could be TRIBBLE good mmo as STO or even better. All they had to do is to implement monthly fees, allow players to buy new or better weapons for $5 each, add some new single player maps (well they released 4 bonus packs but they all were for free What a waste !)
ps. 5-10 years from now all games will use 'mmo' business model even rts , adventure, sport, action games. Hell even chess games will allow you to make 2 moves instead of one when you pay for it
pps. my english isn't perfect I know it. Doing my best
LoL that is just wrong... If MMO games are so dead then how come more and more MMO games are being released?
While I agree that STO isn't worth a damn, it's not an MMO.
The main point that people seem to overlook is that MMOs do not need to have millions of members to be successful. I mean, sure, the companies making and publishing these games would love to have that kind of subscription base, but even if they fail to do so, it doesn't mean the game is dead.
As long as a game is making enough money to make a profit for the company, pay staff salaries and allow maintenance and further content development, its a success.
Also, there is a number of previously unknown developers entering the MMO market, aiming to create games innovative and niche enough for a small but dedicated player base.
And lets not even go into free, CS based MMO territory.
Do I need a better argument than the fact Age of Conan is getting an expansion?
No.
It's just that majority of the playerbase moved on from trying to play the MMO to trying to "beat" it.
If you think MMOs are dead, as I do, then it means you were here long before WoW, and you belong to the spearhead crowd. We need to move on and look for the next new entertainment trends, leaving this **** behind.
I don't think most of us who discovered MMOs before WoW (or to be fair, even after WoW) really expect any innovation at this point, or at least I don't. I just expect them to not devolve and have fewer features than their predecessors and to not do those features they do have half assed. MMOs 5-10 years old have better auction houses and crafting systems than this game does. They have larger worlds with less instancing. It's a real shame such a great IP has been wasted on such a shallow "MMO".
Yep, although i knew it was on its way out after World of Warcraft, this game broke the genre.
I think this is the decade where independent MMO devs will flourish, games like Mortal Online and Earthrise.
No it is rather because people are not patient, and expect and MMO to launch with a 5 year Content Developmentent in par with the last MMO they were playing for the last 5 years.
This is a very unrealistic expectation...and Frankly a Catch 22, for the MMO makers, whom ever they are from wherever they come.
All MMOs start with a Core of features, and add more content and features later through ongoing development post launch.
when WoW launched it did not have battlegrounds or Some of the High end Instances and Raids, It did not have Outland or Nortrend and everything related to them, these were added 6 months + down the line through post Launch devellopment.
When SWG launched it did not have Space and many of the raids or features, it did not have Kashyyyn or Mustaphar either, these were added over time through post launch devellopment.
When UO launched, it did not have All the various Lands and Places it has now, these were added later through ongoing devellopment post launch.
When DAoC launched it did not have all the features it ended having a couple of years later, these were added later through ongoing Development post launch.
When EVE launched it did not have T2 or T3 ships and fittings, Faction Warfare, or the systems it has today, these were added later through ongoing Development post launch.
When Jumpgate Launched it did not have extensive gear, or Station ownership, it added these later through ongoing Development post Launch.
When WWIIOnline launched it did not have supply lines, parachutes, many tanks or Ships or even had all the cities actually created in its huge Map, these were added later through ongoing devellopment post Launch.
When Lineage II launched it did not have Elite Classes or Content beyond certain levels, these were added later through ongoing Development post launch.
When Vanguard Launched it had virtually nothing it has today through ongoing devellopment post launch.
When Darkfall launched it was a complete mess, and for the most part it may still be a mess, but it is still trying through ongoing development to improve itself post launch.
When Warhammer Launched it did not have stable Sieges and new lands or Extensive PVE and PVP Content it has now through ongoing devellopment post launch....etc
Like so...when STO launched it may not have all of the content that will follow in the coming months and years through ongoing devellopment post launch.
...if you are criticizing STO as 2-3 weeks post launch in this thread, then obviously your are a Newbie MMO player that has not understood what this Genre is all about and your talking without prior experience...in other words..your just whining for nothing in this thread....having realized nothing of importance or substance.
What really exasperates the feel of STO being far less than an mmorpg, is because its really a MMOFPS or MMOTPS (Third-Person Shooter), much like the heavily instanced, lobby-system, third-person shooter of Global Agenda.
So for more of a vet mmorpg player, I find STO lacks lasting game-play appeal, as the OP eluded to. So my take based on my Klingon experience and having explored the experience posted of others is this:
- There doesn't seem to be much respect for the Star Trek IP.
- Space is space-less. Each map is nothing more than a confining shoe-box, a small space of nothing to interact with.
- There is no game-play freedom of exploration. No exploration to other planets or discovery; again, your confined to your shoe-box instance. There's nothing dynamically to do in this game that would be reminiscent of Star Trek.
- If you do see a planet on an instanced map, there is no "away-team" capability to freely explore its surface. Its nothing more than a static inactive marble that you bounce off of in your confined instance.
- Space flight is confining and lacks freedom. There's a limited z-axis that prevents looping or gaining weapons locks on ships that are above or below, yet in front of you in many cases. It just adds to the unnecessary maneuvering of your ship.
- Space is life-less, other than the instance nodes that you bump into to enter for a ship pve encounter, or to wait in a long line of trying to perform pvp with other players; its esentially a single-player lobby system game that your forced to pay $15 a month for. If you see an opposing faction player on a system map, there is absolutely no engagement.
- Content is sorely lacking to the point where very very early on in this game, the 'instanced' pve quests are nothing more than similar repeatable maps and mobs of previous quests done; the static nature of pve and its' redundancy is astounding.
- Quest copywriting seems very week that leads to weak story engagement or sense of draw that your actually contributing to a story-arc or meaningfully contributing to federation or klingon game-play.
- Space and ground game-play combat has the most limiting, redundant, Quake 3rd-person shooter type feel of any game in the mmorpg market; its shallow.
- There is no physics to ground combat as there is no physics to space combat that factor into game-play.
- Ground and Space pvp combat amounts to a frag-fest of limited players and non-tactical or strategic importance in any respect to story or game-play in this faction vs. faction environment.
- Like a 3rd-person or first-person shooter, the player-vs-player stuff is without any game-play contributory value, other than winning a small confining map, it amounts to run, gun, die, or run,gun, win, limp, die. But your rewarded as much for being a loser as a winner; no mmoprg game-play distinction. I havent found the game-play nutrition in this yet.
- There is no reasonable complimentary opposite to winning. You win in space and on ground, you get a battery or such (a weak reward), you lose on space or on ground, you miraculously reappear next to the fight to battle like a button mashing mindless drone without consequences again. Lack of consequences to death has turned this title into a series of suicide runs for the same exact reward I get for battling tactically and strategically. The grossly equivalent rewards for those that die often is enough to leave this game.
- The community (massively multiplayer) element of this mmorpg is very fragmented (as opposed to expanded and cooperative) due to the great number of single-player feel instances. Community feels fragmented to one of those several small instanced zones that does nothing to encourage the feel of massively multiplayer entertainment.
- No alternative industry, aka, no resource gathering towards community crafting, enterprise, or merchandising elements for the federation or klingons. Would be nice if this mmorpg staple were available to players, rather than being non-existant.
yea right, wow has enough bots to keep running for years.
you guys make me laugh.
nuff said. die alone, but stop bothering us ^^
I'm inclined to agree with much of what you say. As someone who discovered MMOs around the time of Earth and Beyond, I'm used to games having a lot more features than most MMOs release with now. Nevertheless, it's hard not to see the trend (that reaches far beyond Cryptic) of releasing MMOs that start off with a streamlined game and which build onto it after that. As others have noted, producers and developers are looking more to the 'niche' and to casual players rather than the blockbusting 'everything but the kitchen sink' style MMOs of yesteryear.
Is this a design choice, business strategy, lull in the MMO genre, or birth pangs of something new? I don't know.
As for crafting, I can only say this: Cryptic doesn't really ever do it. None of their games seem to pretend to have remotely deep crafting systems. I wasn't surprised or dismayed to find that was true in STO either.