Just wondering why I never see any races in Star Trek that have nukes or missiles. Maybe i just missed those episodes for sapce combat. But I saw races with guns and other low tech weapons so why does every spacefaring race have to have phasers and quatum torps too? why not one that shoots missiles or nukes at the enterprise?
Just wondering why I never see any races in Star Trek that have nukes or missiles. Maybe i just missed those episodes for sapce combat. But I saw races with guns and other low tech weapons so why does every spacefaring race have to have phasers and quatum torps too? why not one that shoots missiles or nukes at the enterprise?
Just wondering.
As far as I know, Photon and Quantum torpedoes work differently than conventional explosives which wouldn't work too well in space without either fuel to burn for thermobaric weapons or air for the blast wave portion of a standard/nuclear weapon. I think that they also have a higher payload than conventional weapons too even in an atmosphere. Anything that doesn't match the standard photon/quantum/plasma/etc weapons would be too inefficient and trivial for a starship.
Just wondering why I never see any races in Star Trek that have nukes or missiles. Maybe i just missed those episodes for sapce combat. But I saw races with guns and other low tech weapons so why does every spacefaring race have to have phasers and quatum torps too? why not one that shoots missiles or nukes at the enterprise?
Just wondering.
Mostly because they've upgraded to antimatter warheads. Some races, if I'm remembering right, do use nukes, but they're much less advanced. Antimatter I think gives about 200 times the explosive result for the same size of torpedo/missile. Of course in the show if they showed it like this than the battles would be a little too big and flashy and one unshiled hit would kill everyone, so they tone it down a bit.
As far as I know, photon torpedoes have several times the explosive yield of nuclear weapons. There have been many episodes in Star Trek where they called nuclear weapons primitive.
In the very first encounter that Kirk had with the Romulans, the Romulans launched a nuke at the Enterprise. The episode is titled "Balance of Terror."
Any species that has technology that is capable of travelling to different stars, would have technology that would make missiles/ballistic weapons useless.
The Kzinti and the really early year Klingons used drones (missiles) with antimatter warheads..the problem was, ships could outrun them, and they could be shot down with a few phaser shots, so they went out of style.
(Refer to the old tabletop game Starfleet Battles, and the PC game "Starfleet Command" for further info)
Furthermore the term torpedo should have never been used. The definition of a torpedo is a guided projectile in WATER. We have a term for a guided projectiles in air and space and they are called missiles. Calling them torpedoes doesnt make sense and is actually incorrect grammar. They should be called Photon Missiles.
That would make as much sense as calling the Enterprise a space submarine!!???
It's technically incorrect, but it's a generally accepted cultural thing, kinda like the way in Stargate the "AIR" Force operates in space, and soldiers in space are called space MARINES.
Nukes are old fashion and bullets are hard to see in space and thus make for boring fight scenes.
And a gun, in fancy sci fi terms thats what you call a mass driver, and i imagine they don't use them because they aren't flashy enough for futuristic space battles.
Though given the propulsion technology in star trek.
Impulse can apparently go as fast as 'warp 0.8' according to canon. There is no real way to know just how fast that is, since the warps cale is screwy. But many people like to say that warp 1 is C. We do know that 'warp 0.5' is between 0.3 and 0.5 C, so warp 0.8 being 0.8C Is reasonable
Thats over 230 million meters per second.
If they were to construct a tiny vessle having a total mass of 1 ton with an impulse engine, and accelerated it at full impulse, it would posses just over 5 times 10 to the 19 joules of energy. Which is the equivalent of just under 12 megatonnes of TNT, which is about 800 times as powerful as the bomb dropped on Hiroshima
It's technically incorrect, but it's a generally accepted cultural thing, kinda like the way in Stargate the "AIR" Force operates in space, and soldiers in space are called space MARINES.
Our Air force does operate in space. Look at the SR-71 Blackbird and many other military things. So that is believable. Air and space get lumped together a lot. Look at the National Air and Space museum.
But calling a missile a torpedo is a different matter. That is only Star Trek and is really kind of stupid and silly. Dont worry I'm not going to stop LOVING Star Trek over it lol but that one has always bothered me.
You could take this kind of thing really far if you wanted
Fighter jets today have the ability to engage enemies both in the air and on the ground 50 miles away or more. It is often said that modern warfare is fought without ever seeing your enemy face to face.
Yet those giant star ships out in the infant space of well space fight right up where they are practically bumping into each other! This is so funny and unrealistic. Episode after episode of ST you see the ships pull up with only 2 or 3 ship lengths between them. So those massive future weapons must for some reason have EXTREALY short ranges!
well, if we take their amazing maneuverability capabilities in mind you would have to get kind of close to have any chance of hitting them because of light speed lag
So as long as we are willing to accept ships being able to move at relativistic speeds (out of warp) and not flatten the crew, that part is at least plausible.
well, if we take their amazing maneuverability capabilities in mind you would have to get kind of close to have any chance of hitting them because of light speed lag
So as long as we are willing to accept ships being able to move at relativistic speeds (out of warp) and not flatten the crew, that part is at least plausible.
Well no way! If they were that close and moving at light speed it would just be a blur and I have never seen an ST battle like that. Not to mention what the physical ramifications would be having bodies of any mass like that being that close to each other moving that fast...!
If you have ships moving that fast there would have to be a LOT of space between them or else they would be crashing into each other. And the movement is totally unrealistic anyway. The ships in ST glide like they are in air and have wings. Thats why Battlestar Galactica is so much more realistic in that regard. And I'm not turning this into a BSG thread; I like ST a lot more than BSG. But that show went for a lot more realism.
Think of it this way. How fast is the Space Shuttle going in relationship to the ISS when its a mile out from the ISS? Its going VERY slow, they spend hours just getting in sync with each other. Being a mile apart in space in like being shoulder to shoulder!!
What franchise was this? I feel I should know but I don't. I'm guessing Babylon 5 since I could never get into that one.
B5 is kind of slow until the middle of the second season.
Its very worth watching though. Its not only good sci fi, its story could be adapted to any setting and it would be worth a watch. its spin off was also pretty good but only towards the end, the beginning episodes were pretty boring also.
In the very first encounter that Kirk had with the Romulans, the Romulans launched a nuke at the Enterprise. The episode is titled "Balance of Terror."
This is not true. In that episode the Romulans used a plasma torpedo against the enterprise. Which was partially outrun due to the fast decay in the damage dealt by a plasma torpedo over great distances. If you wish to experience this for yourself fight something that launches heavy plasma torps at you or a player that is using Torp High yield with plasma torpedoes.
A nuclear weapon in space would be more dangerous as an EMP warhead than an explosive one. Due to the lack of air to compress/burn. However, against a starship with shields designed to defend against antimatter warheads, I would guess a nuclear blast would have little to no effect.
As stated above though in theory if your could strap an impulse engine capable of accelerating a payload to within even a small fraction of the speed of light, the kinetic energy of its impact would be devastating to say, a planet. Not to mention a tiny, fragile starship.
This concept has actually been realistically theorized as a weapon that is basically a rod the size of a telephone pole, launched from orbit so that it re-enters on a specific target on the surface. With no warhead of any kind, the kinetic energy from hitting the ground at such high speeds would produce energy on par with a small nuclear blast. Without the radioactive byproducts.
This concept has actually been realistically theorized as a weapon that is basically a rod the size of a telephone pole, launched from orbit so that it re-enters on a specific target on the surface. With no warhead of any kind, the kinetic energy from hitting the ground at such high speeds would produce energy on par with a small nuclear blast. Without the radioactive byproducts.
Yeah I watched that show on the Science channel too. All about realistic future weapons. That rod weapon was crazy.
And all the ships moved with thrusters and could move in any direction in 360 degrees instantly. Not long flowing flight paths.
Again BSG at least got that part right with the way the Raptors flew in space, flipping and spinning around with thrusters.
In the very first encounter that Kirk had with the Romulans, the Romulans launched a nuke at the Enterprise. The episode is titled "Balance of Terror."
Furthermore the term torpedo should have never been used. The definition of a torpedo is a guided projectile in WATER. We have a term for a guided projectiles in air and space and they are called missiles. Calling them torpedoes doesnt make sense and is actually incorrect grammar. They should be called Photon Missiles.
That would make as much sense as calling the Enterprise a space submarine!!???
buddy, when star trek first aired i bet gene throught of space as a giant sea and starships as submarines, why you think the star trek space combat is so 2d? not only in this game, in many star trek games, and the episodes too.
lets not forget when gene made up star trek he was married before you were probably born and man haven't even gone to the moon...
star trek has always been starsubs in the "sea" of space :P
see their ranks *admiral* etc, their original clothing *cuff ranks* their ships insides! controls like submarines! did i mention also their siren? typical WW2 ship navy siren....
40 years from now people will laugh at our iphone rage and crappy quad core... like we laugh at the ideology of back then, thats life
Also ever wonder how they could fire physical "torpedoes" through their shields but could not beam anything else through the shields? And how was an intact object passing right through the same shield that was holding against the energy of 100s of nukes exploding on the outside of it?
By the way I thought of a way they could have beamed people through the shields. Just create a shield airlock. A little room that the shields could be pulled back from for people to beam into and then extended around again after they were there. Lol
buddy, when star trek first aired i bet gene throught of space as a giant sea and starships as submarines, why you think the star trek space combat is so 2d? not only in this game, in many star trek games, and the episodes too.
lets not forget when gene made up star trek he was married before you were probably born and man haven't even gone to the moon...
star trek has always been starsubs in the "sea" of space :P
40 years from now people will laugh at oru iphone rage and crappy quad core... like we laugh at the ideology of back then, thats life
Cowboys in space, was his intial selling point.
Then after the first pilot they said it was to cerebral, he toned down that part to get it on air, but it was always about more then simplicity.
It is interesting that in one of the movies, limited dimensional thought was used to defeat a foe, Kahn I think. Submarine warfare being 3d conception, and surface naval combat being 2d is a comment, but the real point is higher dimensional conflict. How many levels are you thinking of, the higher levels are clearly shown by 3d chess.
Also ever wonder how they could fire physical "torpedoes" through their shields but could not beam anything else through the shields? And how was an intact object passing right through the same shield that was holding against the energy of 100s of nukes exploding on the outside of it?
By the way I thought of a way they could have beamed people through the shields. Just create a shield airlock. A little room that the shields could be pulled back from for people to beam into and then extended around again after they were there. Lol
its called science fiction for a reason, like i said most of it made up before oru scientist actually tried it in the real world star wars is fake too btw... there are no jedis....
Comments
As far as I know, Photon and Quantum torpedoes work differently than conventional explosives which wouldn't work too well in space without either fuel to burn for thermobaric weapons or air for the blast wave portion of a standard/nuclear weapon. I think that they also have a higher payload than conventional weapons too even in an atmosphere. Anything that doesn't match the standard photon/quantum/plasma/etc weapons would be too inefficient and trivial for a starship.
Mostly because they've upgraded to antimatter warheads. Some races, if I'm remembering right, do use nukes, but they're much less advanced. Antimatter I think gives about 200 times the explosive result for the same size of torpedo/missile. Of course in the show if they showed it like this than the battles would be a little too big and flashy and one unshiled hit would kill everyone, so they tone it down a bit.
Nice to know one of the Devs is a sci-fi buff
(Refer to the old tabletop game Starfleet Battles, and the PC game "Starfleet Command" for further info)
Coderanger ftw
That would make as much sense as calling the Enterprise a space submarine!!???
Aren't spatial torpedoes (ENT style) nuclear based?
And a gun, in fancy sci fi terms thats what you call a mass driver, and i imagine they don't use them because they aren't flashy enough for futuristic space battles.
Though given the propulsion technology in star trek.
Impulse can apparently go as fast as 'warp 0.8' according to canon. There is no real way to know just how fast that is, since the warps cale is screwy. But many people like to say that warp 1 is C. We do know that 'warp 0.5' is between 0.3 and 0.5 C, so warp 0.8 being 0.8C Is reasonable
Thats over 230 million meters per second.
If they were to construct a tiny vessle having a total mass of 1 ton with an impulse engine, and accelerated it at full impulse, it would posses just over 5 times 10 to the 19 joules of energy. Which is the equivalent of just under 12 megatonnes of TNT, which is about 800 times as powerful as the bomb dropped on Hiroshima
Our Air force does operate in space. Look at the SR-71 Blackbird and many other military things. So that is believable. Air and space get lumped together a lot. Look at the National Air and Space museum.
But calling a missile a torpedo is a different matter. That is only Star Trek and is really kind of stupid and silly. Dont worry I'm not going to stop LOVING Star Trek over it lol but that one has always bothered me.
Fighter jets today have the ability to engage enemies both in the air and on the ground 50 miles away or more. It is often said that modern warfare is fought without ever seeing your enemy face to face.
Yet those giant star ships out in the infant space of well space fight right up where they are practically bumping into each other! This is so funny and unrealistic. Episode after episode of ST you see the ships pull up with only 2 or 3 ship lengths between them. So those massive future weapons must for some reason have EXTREALY short ranges!
So as long as we are willing to accept ships being able to move at relativistic speeds (out of warp) and not flatten the crew, that part is at least plausible.
And whoever makes an mmorpg based on that franchise will get a double lifetimer out of me
And as for the weapons i think the replicators have problems replicating uranium xD
Well no way! If they were that close and moving at light speed it would just be a blur and I have never seen an ST battle like that. Not to mention what the physical ramifications would be having bodies of any mass like that being that close to each other moving that fast...!
If you have ships moving that fast there would have to be a LOT of space between them or else they would be crashing into each other. And the movement is totally unrealistic anyway. The ships in ST glide like they are in air and have wings. Thats why Battlestar Galactica is so much more realistic in that regard. And I'm not turning this into a BSG thread; I like ST a lot more than BSG. But that show went for a lot more realism.
Think of it this way. How fast is the Space Shuttle going in relationship to the ISS when its a mile out from the ISS? Its going VERY slow, they spend hours just getting in sync with each other. Being a mile apart in space in like being shoulder to shoulder!!
What franchise was this? I feel I should know but I don't. I'm guessing Babylon 5 since I could never get into that one.
B5 is kind of slow until the middle of the second season.
Its very worth watching though. Its not only good sci fi, its story could be adapted to any setting and it would be worth a watch. its spin off was also pretty good but only towards the end, the beginning episodes were pretty boring also.
This is not true. In that episode the Romulans used a plasma torpedo against the enterprise. Which was partially outrun due to the fast decay in the damage dealt by a plasma torpedo over great distances. If you wish to experience this for yourself fight something that launches heavy plasma torps at you or a player that is using Torp High yield with plasma torpedoes.
A nuclear weapon in space would be more dangerous as an EMP warhead than an explosive one. Due to the lack of air to compress/burn. However, against a starship with shields designed to defend against antimatter warheads, I would guess a nuclear blast would have little to no effect.
As stated above though in theory if your could strap an impulse engine capable of accelerating a payload to within even a small fraction of the speed of light, the kinetic energy of its impact would be devastating to say, a planet. Not to mention a tiny, fragile starship.
This concept has actually been realistically theorized as a weapon that is basically a rod the size of a telephone pole, launched from orbit so that it re-enters on a specific target on the surface. With no warhead of any kind, the kinetic energy from hitting the ground at such high speeds would produce energy on par with a small nuclear blast. Without the radioactive byproducts.
Yeah I watched that show on the Science channel too. All about realistic future weapons. That rod weapon was crazy.
And all the ships moved with thrusters and could move in any direction in 360 degrees instantly. Not long flowing flight paths.
Again BSG at least got that part right with the way the Raptors flew in space, flipping and spinning around with thrusters.
ahum? plasma torpedo....learn your canon...
Romulans used nukes in the earth romulan war!
buddy, when star trek first aired i bet gene throught of space as a giant sea and starships as submarines, why you think the star trek space combat is so 2d? not only in this game, in many star trek games, and the episodes too.
lets not forget when gene made up star trek he was married before you were probably born and man haven't even gone to the moon...
star trek has always been starsubs in the "sea" of space :P
see their ranks *admiral* etc, their original clothing *cuff ranks* their ships insides! controls like submarines! did i mention also their siren? typical WW2 ship navy siren....
40 years from now people will laugh at our iphone rage and crappy quad core... like we laugh at the ideology of back then, thats life
By the way I thought of a way they could have beamed people through the shields. Just create a shield airlock. A little room that the shields could be pulled back from for people to beam into and then extended around again after they were there. Lol
Cowboys in space, was his intial selling point.
Then after the first pilot they said it was to cerebral, he toned down that part to get it on air, but it was always about more then simplicity.
It is interesting that in one of the movies, limited dimensional thought was used to defeat a foe, Kahn I think. Submarine warfare being 3d conception, and surface naval combat being 2d is a comment, but the real point is higher dimensional conflict. How many levels are you thinking of, the higher levels are clearly shown by 3d chess.
its called science fiction for a reason, like i said most of it made up before oru scientist actually tried it in the real world