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Will STO last longer than 30 days?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Before I slam the game I'd say its a lot of fun to start off with its easy going and my first few experiences were very possative but as I play more I don't think it will survive the 30 day re-subscription point. So I fully expect people that haven't played much to disagree. Hell at the start of the early access I would have disagreed! The lifers will be here but cause they are lifters they can leave for a few months once they hit admiral (probably in those 30 days) and come back when its fixed. So what are the problems.

Disconects and Loading Screens

There have to be more loading screens in this game than any other in the history of MMO's (no proof so don't call me on this but if there is a game with more loading I don't want to play it). A normal day is beam out of Sol base -loading- leave sol system -loading- fly to another sector and run into a sector combat - loading- leave sector combat cause done it - loading- enter second sector -loading- hopefully have a mission there, enter planets orbit -loading- need to get to the ground -loading- I think you get the idea. Even worse on explore missions and finding one such as aid the planet you don't want. And then there is a chance of server disconects at all these points increasing the loading time. And lets not forget that there are no wandering mobs to kill as you move through. Its either load into a random mob battle or just watching the map as you fly along. The very nature of the game makes this a massive problem that quickly becomes boring. The solution get rid of sector space and have more time spent ground side in a typical MMO style open world style game.

The Dumbest and most Bloodthirsty captain or Missions and AI

'Captain there are Klingons coming straight at us be ready for a fight'. No they are aimlessly wondering about waiting for me to get the drop on them. The AI is set up for children, though thats unkind to children. All groups of enemies aimlessly patrol or stand around a spot waiting for you to come and kill them. Doesn't matter if its an episode or patrol or an explore mission its all the same. And your captain has one option to hunt down and kill each group. And so you do it. Though don't expect and hitman style assassinations, once you engage one of them everyone in that group knows about it straight away and comes gunning for you. Its fine for a while but but the 100th group of 5 Klingons or Cardassians you have killed it gets a little old.

And then there is the missions, a distress signal from a Klingon ship it could be a trap, well what can I do about it Oh nothing. I get attacked within seconds of being told its a trap, not so much a trap as them just attacking me. I capture an enemy captain who I very much want to kill so he can't cause me any more trouble and what are my options. Oh there are no options there is just let him beam away. Klingons tell me there is a shape shifter on my ship, do I get him down to medical hell no I'll drop him off on the planet. The strories may be great but playing the worlds dumbest captain in them quickly becomes boring. Now not everyone looks for story in a game but if your going to have it let the play have some influence on how it turns out. As it stands my BOFs have more say over the story than me. The solution to these is improve the AI so it moves about a little more, that they have line of sight and not telepathically linked and give the captains choice in missions as to what they will do.

Crafting

It doesn't exist. I may pick up some things as I fly around and then I can try and find something they can make. But its very much an after thought in the game and anyone that enjoys this element of MMO's will find they are very disappointed with how it works. You have to fly missions to find them, you can try exploration space but thats competing with other people who just pick them up when they find its not a mission. Ultimately though this isn't crafting its just something tagged on to give the illusion of crafting that you can do as a side project when you have found enough alloy or plasma or whatever random find you may get. The solution is simple, add more open world ground based play and include mining stations or other means to get resources and then have a more complex and robust crafting system rather than a trade in system.

PvP

Once again very much an after thought and fun to start with becomes repeative and pointless. You win that PvP match and nothing has changed. There is no story to progress and no neutral zone to fight over, you just go back into the next instance. Now even the most accomplished PvPer will see that this isn't much of a game when you can play the many games out there that offer more in the way of PvP rewards and open world PvP were you can get together with your allies and crush your enemies. Rather than que to get into an instance and run round the same map again and again. The solution is open world PvP with control over the neutral zone offering resources and supplies -see crafting and additional quests.

The Look

Its like playing in the land of giants. Everything is so massive. I understand their is an issue with camera angles but other games seem to get round it. Not to mention outside structures are massive, even (which is all) the ones you can't enter. The door ways on these buildings are 10 times too big and look stupid. Unless every planet is inhabbited by races of giants. The solution scale things down better.

Skills

This game is plugged on being a skill based game. I remember reading on interviews when asked what would bring non trekies to the game one of the things mentioned was it was skill based. Is it? What do this skills do? It seems very very little and the explanations seem vague at best. Soldier improves your damage with a rifle. Does it? how much by. And what is with the +8,+14 etc at the bottom of the screen what does that mean. More to the point why such heavy diminishing returns? And then of course the way that captains end up with the vast majority of the skills on the tree anyway just to level up. Oh no wait its a skill based program but we have to level up. I clearly have levels. If you want to see a skill based program have a look at Fallen Earth. So the solution look at more stats as skill based such as agility and strenght and perception and then explain what they do better. And cut out the diminishing returns, with the number of skill points I have to spend I can get most skills to a good level maybe missing out on only 4 or so points on skills to get 18 added to another skill. Specialiation doesn't pay unless I want to train my BOF that skill.

Now there are more issues with the game. And no doubt I should have gone on about end content as by 30 days I suspect most people will be Admiral (well not the Klingons). Or about the additioanl Cardassian and Romulan factions or the lack of Klingon content (I doubt 45 days will see much added). But sadly I think people will have given up before the devs can get any of these things in.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    TL;DR

    Answer - yes, it will.

    EDIT: Did read, responses below:
    Costello wrote: »

    Disconects and Loading Screens

    There have to be more loading screens in this game than any other in the history of MMO's (no proof so don't call me on this but if there is a game with more loading I don't want to play it).

    No proof = do not make a claim. Play Dungeons & Dragons Online; it has just as many load screens.
    The Dumbest and most Bloodthirsty captain or Missions and AI

    Yes, missions could use some work, I'll agree with you there. However, it's not much different than most MMOs. Talk to X, Kill Y # of Z, return to X. Wash, rinse, repeat. This is standard fare for MMOs. Sure, STO needs to be different, but I think it will be.
    Crafting

    It doesn't exist. ... The solution is simple, add more open world ground based play and include mining stations or other means to get resources and then have a more complex and robust crafting system rather than a trade in system.

    I agree that crafting needs to be overhauled drastically. I believe a system similar to Earth and Beyond would be awesome. We should have the ability to be non-Starfleet captains, too. Merchant or Trade vessels, for instance.
    PvP

    Once again very much an after thought and fun to start with becomes repeative and pointless. You win that PvP match and nothing has changed. There is no story to progress and no neutral zone to fight over, you just go back into the next instance. Now even the most accomplished PvPer will see that this isn't much of a game when you can play the many games out there that offer more in the way of PvP rewards and open world PvP were you can get together with your allies and crush your enemies. Rather than que to get into an instance and run round the same map again and again. The solution is open world PvP with control over the neutral zone offering resources and supplies -see crafting and additional quests.

    Oh, you mean like WoW? Oh wait, WoW doesn't have anything but repetitive, pointless PvP. It doesn't have maps to fight over (not really anyway - they don't matter for anything, no one cares about them), just repetitive Battlegrounds and the Arena. Instanced maps, run round again and again.
    The Look

    Its like playing in the land of giants. Everything is so massive. I understand their is an issue with camera angles but other games seem to get round it.

    No, really, 3rd person games all suffer from this.
    Skills

    The skill system seems strange, but it works. The math is there, just do it.
    Now there are more issues with the game. And no doubt I should have gone on about end content as by 30 days I suspect most people will be Admiral (well not the Klingons). Or about the additioanl Cardassian and Romulan factions or the lack of Klingon content (I doubt 45 days will see much added). But sadly I think people will have given up before the devs can get any of these things in.

    People who will have gotten through all the content in 30 days need to play less, seriously. And the 45-day patch is going to have quite a bit of content, or haven't you read about it? People aren't going to give up on this game so easily. Those who do weren't worth our time anyway.

    Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion, just do some research before you spout it as fact.

    Carry on.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Fair points i'm not going to bother with a full rebuttal. Suffice to say it will last longer than champions online because it is less of a niche. So if/when CO goes down, expect STO to linger a bit longer than that.

    Vanguard is still online, after all, and it is probably one of the worst MMOs in existence.

    As long as STO is better than Tabula Rasa it will live on.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    no it wont................ it wont last until tomo best you quit now.....i hear the sims is fun go play that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    If there is no Open PvP zones BEFORE the 45 day patch then no. Klingons at admiral rank are bored. We need to have something to fight over, not just these matches over and over again.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    If you leave, I don't know...I don't know how we can go on. :rolleyes:

    Anyway, yes, it will go on. Here is my theory on MMO games. Every MMO dev not named Blizzard releases half baked games at release. WoW brought many many players into the MMO genre who are now hooked on MMOs, but are really bored with WoW. So now when any popular MMO is released, many of these players flock to the new game, discover an unfinished product, declare it ****, and go back to where ever. Meanwhile, life goes on for the declared "****" MMO title, and its player base.

    One more point,
    'Captain there are Klingons coming straight at us be ready for a fight'. No they are aimlessly wondering about waiting for me to get the drop on them.

    This can be said about any MMO in existence, and just about most computer games.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Check my edited post.

    Oh, and I should add - I'm all for Open World PvP in places like the Neutral Zone and in other places where it makes sense. It's always fun to feel that adrenaline rush as you're moving through dangerous space. Problem is, how is it handled? Do you get pulled into an instance where you can fight it out? How is that fair? The person with the best connection and the fastest computer will ALWAYS win in that case, because they'll load and be able to attack before the other person even knows what hit them.
    Qoojo wrote:
    Every MMO dev not named Blizzard releases half baked games at release.

    WoW was half-baked at release. It had tons of problems. But people don't remember that - it was too far back, and the modern gamer's memory doesn't stretch back far enough.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    If there is no Open PvP zones BEFORE the 45 day patch then no. Klingons at admiral rank are bored. We need to have something to fight over, not just these matches over and over again.
    The vast majority of STO players are not yet at max level, and I doubt most of them will be before the 45 day patch.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    If your looking for good pvp I suggest DarkFall Online!!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    RedSunBird wrote: »
    The vast majority of STO players are not yet at max level, and I doubt most of them will be before the 45 day patch.

    I myself have reached Captain already! I dont see admiral to be very hard to do by any decent MMOer..... Ofcourse I am a gamer, and STO is filled with alot of Fan's who are playing an MMO for there first time and dont understand that Gamers in MMO's will log 8 hours plus a day...... But I digress there latest billing fubar with this grace period fiasco is the final straw and I am heading back to DarkFall online the best PvP MMO on the market!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I myself have reached Captain already! I dont see admiral to be very hard to do by any decent MMOer..... Ofcourse I am a gamer, and STO is filled with alot of Fan's who are playing an MMO for there first time and dont understand that Gamers in MMO's will log 8 hours plus a day...... But I digress there latest billing fubar with this grace period fiasco is the final straw and I am heading back to DarkFall online the best PvP MMO on the market!

    Um... good for you? Would you like a cookie?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    theroguex wrote: »
    WoW was half-baked at release. It had tons of problems. But people don't remember that - it was too far back, and the modern gamer's memory doesn't stretch back far enough.

    I have been through about every MMO release since EQ1, and even played UO pre-trammel. In my opinion, no MMO comes close to touching WoW at release for content and stability. I realize the overcrowded original servers had problems. But don't turn this into a WoW bashing thread simply because I said one kind thing about the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I myself have reached Captain already! I dont see admiral to be very hard to do by any decent MMOer..... Ofcourse I am a gamer, and STO is filled with alot of Fan's who are playing an MMO for there first time and dont understand that Gamers in MMO's will log 8 hours plus a day...... But I digress there latest billing fubar with this grace period fiasco is the final straw and I am heading back to DarkFall online the best PvP MMO on the market!

    I think you have nerd confused with gamer. Your a gamer if you enjoy playing games, and get enjoyment out of them. Your a nerd if you play games 8+ hours a day, live with your mommy/have mommy pay for you (dont lie, unless you won the lottery, there is no way you yourself can play 8+ hours a day without someone paying for you), and you ***** about everything that isn't tailored to you.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Let me make a different comparison:

    Mass Effect 2 is a highly immersive experience, with excellent special effects, character building and a fabulous back story. It drips with atmosphere and is a ton of fun.

    But it feels so lonely. I can't play with anyone else. I'd have more fun with it if I could just have my wife play with me coop.

    STO has people. It has many many flaws, but there are other people there sharing the experience, geeking out on fanboy moments and genmerally breathing life into the game.

    So I play STO whenever I can, and ME2 when I cannot. And I definitely prefer STO. And suspect for this reason alone I will be playing it for some time to come.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    What other MMORPG is more challenging AND fun than STO? They're all simplistic... they all have horrible AI. Even Eve Online (which I am a huge fan of - but I'm waiting for Incarna) has some of the most pathetic PvE missions.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I think you have nerd confused with gamer.
    Well, that's really not a fair use of the word nerd. Nerd isn't really a derogative term in that sense, not universally. It's basically the same thing as a geek. I know what you mean though, though there's not really one correct word to describe people like those you describe (as in the "worst-case-scenario" kind of people).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Dawnslayer wrote:
    Fair points i'm not going to bother with a full rebuttal. Suffice to say it will last longer than champions online because it is less of a niche. So if/when CO goes down, expect STO to linger a bit longer than that.

    Vanguard is still online, after all, and it is probably one of the worst MMOs in existence.

    As long as STO is better than Tabula Rasa it will live on.

    Actually Vanguard went from the worst to one of the best, at least to really hard core MMO players. Its diplo and crafting are unique in their complexity and interesting variety.

    However, all of the NOOBs who post "STO will die in 30 days" rants fail to recognize that they simply need to get out more, take a college class, and read a little. NO game with a profit ratio of this one will fail any time soon. It was developed frugally (half the price of DDO) has a nice sized Dev crew, launched with a pretty strong content front end, and in terms of mistakes, mostly made a mistake with underestimating the games popularity by a factor of 10.

    No one went out of business by selling too many products.

    In terms of quality, the one thing that will make the game even better is the process of getting rid of all of the people who make posts about how horrible the game is. Horrible is Tabula Rasa, which simply did not work. STO is an IP with legs, and now with a great first day sales, they have the cash to really push the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Selenica wrote: »
    What other MMORPG is more challenging AND fun than STO? They're all simplistic... they all have horrible AI. Even Eve Online (which I am a huge fan of - but I'm waiting for Incarna) has some of the most pathetic PvE missions.

    DDO probably had the best PvE, its adventures such as Waterworks and Delera's are epic. Vanguard is probably the game with the most immersive and interesting world. Crafting and Diplomacy are very interesting parts of the game.

    But to acknowledge your point, STO is a functional and interesting game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I think so. At least 31 days. :D

    Good Headline though. Nice attempt at getting attention. Worked for me. :cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Disconnects were?

    I am sitting in GermanyI have at the most 1-2 Discs over the Day ever checkt if your PC is ok and ever used TCPOptimzer? http://www.speedguide.net/downloads.php

    or Maybe your ISP has bad Routing or to slow?

    i have: down 30000 kbit/s
    and up 2000 kbit/s with my ISP
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    theroguex wrote: »

    No, really, 3rd person games all suffer from this.

    Check out Age of Conan for what 3d person games can look like. It is far more realistic sizing and looks a lot better.

    theroguex wrote: »
    The skill system seems strange, but it works. The math is there, just do it.

    I'm afraid I'm going to need some proof of this. I have seen nothing to suggest that 8 levels in a skill instead of 7 does anything. Check out Fallen Earth for how a real skill based game is. In STO my equipment, special attacks, health (and shields as a side effect of equipment), Ship and BOF's are all tied to my level (captain, Commander etc) and not to any skills. Skills appear to play a very minor role in the game.
    theroguex wrote: »
    People who will have gotten through all the content in 30 days need to play less, seriously. And the 45-day patch is going to have quite a bit of content, or haven't you read about it? People aren't going to give up on this game so easily. Those who do weren't worth our time anyway.

    Firstly I don't think telling people to play less is ever an answer in a sub based game. As for the 45 day patch, I have yet to see a Dev say what is planned will be in within 45 days. That was a time frame given by the players. Second it looks to contain mostly much needed Klingon Content. I don't believe it will contain vast amounts of federation content.

    As to people giving up so easily. if there is nothing to do such as PvP control of the neutral zone or building of star fleets and bases then should they just log on to repeat content they have already played and beaten.
    theroguex wrote: »
    Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion, just do some research before you spout it as fact.
    Carry on.

    I can't see anywhere that I have spouted any facts that are incorrect that could have been fixed by research. If you mean D&D having more instances its a free to play game. Its not in the same catagory as subscription based game. And I think it would be close to say it had more instancing that STO. Both require instancing to get to a mission but STO also has 2 lots of instancing and loading to get to Sol base or leave it. And the point still stands there are far too many loading screens with STO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I myself have reached Captain already! I dont see admiral to be very hard to do by any decent MMOer..... Ofcourse I am a gamer, and STO is filled with alot of Fan's who are playing an MMO for there first time and dont understand that Gamers in MMO's will log 8 hours plus a day...... But I digress there latest billing fubar with this grace period fiasco is the final straw and I am heading back to DarkFall online the best PvP MMO on the market!

    If you can play games for 8 hours a day - good for you. I consider myself to be a gamer too, but I can't do the same. I will tell you a secret: The majority of today's gamers can't do that, and it has nothing to do with skill as your fairly arrogant statement seems to indicate. The days when MMOs were exclusively played by students, unemployed persons and nerds without any sort of life are long over.

    Which is why newer MMOs don't make the assumption you have to play them for 10+ hours per day anymore. I am not going to reach Admiral anytime soon, which is why the game won't bore me anytime soon too. That's a good thing. I am sure they will add new content long before I am running out of it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    mhuadib wrote:
    Disconnects were?

    I am sitting in GermanyI have at the most 1-2 Discs over the Day ever checkt if your PC is ok and ever used TCPOptimzer? http://www.speedguide.net/downloads.php

    or Maybe your ISP has bad Routing or to slow?

    i have: down 30000 kbit/s
    and up 2000 kbit/s with my ISP

    Most disconnects are ISP related. The game has had several days of instability because of overloaded servers.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Star Trek Online has the best casual experience of any MMORPG I've played, and I've played nearly all of them (excluding all those crummy F2P ones...). It's entirely enjoyable to just log in for anywhere from 25 minutes to 2 hours and get heaps of enjoyment and immediate gameplay. There's almost no downtime/traveling, no waiting for groups of players to get organized to raid(just hop in a Fleet Action! How brilliant!), and the space combat is fun from the very beginning..
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    It is the most boring MMO I ever played. I started with UO and ended with WAR. The "content" of this game is sooo poor :mad:

    The ground grafic is the worst I've seen in the last 5 years.

    And for foreign players like me, the language interface customization is a good joke.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    mhuadib wrote:
    Disconnects were?
    ...
    or Maybe your ISP has bad Routing or to slow?

    i have: down 30000 kbit/s
    and up 2000 kbit/s with my ISP

    To point out the obvious, in most cases the speed of your Internet connection has little do with getting disconnected or having lag. I mean, your bandwidth in itself has nothing to do with latency, unless there's too much stuff being transferred at the same time, therefore "clogging the pipes". Any reasonable broadband will easily be able to handle the traffic of something like STO. And even 256kbps is quite reasonable and easily enough. I imagine 128kbps would still be enough as well for many games. For upstream you also need even less than for downstream.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    It is the most boring MMO I ever played. I started with UO and ended with WAR. The "content" of this game is sooo poor :mad:

    The ground grafic is the worst I've seen in the last 5 years.

    And for foreign players like me, the language interface customization is a good joke.

    I agree completely. There just isn't enough content to keep me interested.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The mob AI is as dumb as it was in City of Heroes.

    The mobs act and react in the EXACT same way the mobs did in City of Heroes.

    Even the animations are pretty much the EXACT same as well. Including the cowering NPC's in rescue missions lol.

    It's all DeJaVu for anyone that played City of Heroes before.

    Instead of optimizing and improving the engine and toolsets to churn out half assed MMO's at an even faster rate!! :mad:

    Cryptic could have spend a little more time in optimizing and improving their engine and toolsets to make the game experience less boring and repetitive. /facepalm

    Jer
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    theroguex wrote: »
    TL;DR





    People who will have gotten through all the content in 30 days need to play less, seriously. And the 45-day patch is going to have quite a bit of content, or haven't you read about it? People aren't going to give up on this game so easily. Those who do weren't worth our time anyway.
    .

    Have to disagree Strongly on this statement.
    I have been playing approximately 1-2 hours a day Maximum since head start, taking it very slow, reading missions etc. trying to find decent equipment for my crew and ship and still at the slow pace I have been playing, I have easily gotten to LtC in maybe 8 hours of playing.

    Based on that, I imagine I will be approaching Admiral by the end of the first 30 days.

    So the OP is right, the Majority will have done everything by the end of the first month.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kineel wrote:
    Let me make a different comparison:

    Mass Effect 2 is a highly immersive experience, with excellent special effects, character building and a fabulous back story. It drips with atmosphere and is a ton of fun.

    But it feels so lonely. I can't play with anyone else. I'd have more fun with it if I could just have my wife play with me coop.

    STO has people. It has many many flaws, but there are other people there sharing the experience, geeking out on fanboy moments and genmerally breathing life into the game.

    So I play STO whenever I can, and ME2 when I cannot. And I definitely prefer STO. And suspect for this reason alone I will be playing it for some time to come.


    I can't believe you just said you prefer STO. Lol. I'm at the point right now where even after finishing ME2, I'm tempted to start a new character as a female Shepard as a different class since I played through as a dude last time, and play it through as evil as possible.

    Even when I'm just launching probes at planets for ****in' ore in that game, it's entertaining me more than playing STO. 60% of the reason for that, is because most of the times I go to log in, there's either some kind of unsuspected maintenance, I'm 1,000+ in queue, or some other bizarre occurrence that should not be happening. The other 40% is because the game just sucks.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    This game will be around for 3 million days
This discussion has been closed.