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Will ship upgrades ever be possible?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I am looking at
http://suricatasblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/stoshiptierchart1.png

From one tier to the next there are various stat increases, and additional weapon console and what not.

Just as an example
You have a Defiant Class Tactical Escort
Right now the only difference between it and the other Tactical Escorts are cosmetic, and that's fine with me.

When you rank up you and the next tier opens that automatically puts you into
Prometheus Class Advanced Escort
The upgrades you get are
Hull +500
Crew +100
Turnrate -2
Additional Sci, and Tac BO
Additional Aft Weapon

If with your character you want your career to be a Defiant Class Captain, in the future do you think it will be possible to just buy upgrades to make your ship stat wise match the higher tiers? In return you forgo being able to take command of one of those ships.


Again that was just an example, you could sub in any ship. I just like the idea of being able to pick out whatever ship feels like the best fit for you and be able to keep it viable if you wanted to.

Edit:

Just to condense this for someone new to the thread that doesn't want to read it all these pages.

Basic idea is to allow different models of ships to able to be used by max level players and not take a hit to stats vs their t5 counterparts
Some ways that have been suggested to do this have been
a specific mission arc could allow for these ship upgrades and a corresponding C-store Micro Transaction could work

Refitting of ships is very common in the canon. I do not think it is unreasonable in rearguard to that to have a "refit" option. Even the Miranda can be tooled out to be FAR more effective, perhaps equivalent to a T4 space-frame. I would expect such a refit would have to be done incrementally, a tier at a time, and would be extremely expensive.

Providing various options for refit would be very cool. "Buying" alternative equipment slots and BO slots as the refit progresses. Even porting ship attributes between the Fed and the Klings would be acceptable. Imagine a Miranda with the innards of a T4 BoP or a T2 Connie with the innards of a Negh'Var.

branching attributes with limitations in refitting according to prior refits is an obvious option. if you add another engineering console slot to a Miranda you can add either another engineering or science BO slot. If you add a science BO slot instead of an engineering BO slot you can only take a silence console. taking the engineering console slot and then an engineering BO would then open up the ability to reinforce the hull. If that reinforcement is taken then it cuts off adding another tactical console but maybe not preventing a tactical BO.

Each addition is one increment. Each increment increases pretty substantially in EC cost. Eventually the refit tree truncates itself due to crossover limitations. you can only refit to a certain point and refit diversity limits potentual refit options.

Just a basic money sink where you can buy different model ships with t5 stats

Make it possible via crafting system
J-Sheridan wrote:
If it was limited to a player only model then fair enough but on the outside looks like the normal T5 then that might work but frankly its a poor way of implementing it.

Ideally, they should make the option to reach T6 and at this rank you get to CHOOSE the specific model of ship you want to fly from any of the previous range. Call it Admirals perogative just like Riker decided to upgrade the E-D into the Galaxy X.

That would actually offer a unique variety to endgame since everyone is going to have their own taste in design. If some stupid people want to get prissy and say you cant fit the technology of a Soverign into a Miranda then fine, scale up the MIranda model to the size of a Soverign = problem solved.

Alternatively, have each model come with sats suitable for the size of the ship and have each size fill roles. Thus you can have a Defiant that is fast and agile but lacks heavy armor / shields and lots of crew. Or you can go with the big bulky Galaxy with extra consoles and beefer defences but it turns slower than a planet.

For those that want to complain it unbalances PVP - fine, make it a quest reward secluded into its own little level bracket thus pvp will only be made up of players that have these options available. Thus no level 1 player is going to get nuked by an Admiral posing in a Miranda.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Yes fuggin please.

    Perhaps you could allow each ship to be upgraded only one tier, such that a miranda couldn't suddenly be as good as a tier 5 escort.

    I really don't want to lose my defiant class escort when I hit admiral, but the benefits of doing so are undeniable. But I seriously doubt cryptic would go for this.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    What I would really like is to be able to keep your tier X ship at Tier X+1 while being allowed to "enhance it" to TIER X+1.

    Well, when you have a custom Nova Class, you're not that happy to get this ridiculously designed HOPE class if you ask me.

    Even if you don't actually...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I love this idea lots and have thought about it tons. I think it would make an excellent addition to the game as it would make 3 iconic ships viable at endgame.

    Even if each character were allowed only one of these "Refits" with additional refits being microtransactions I think this would be very popular.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I didn't think about it before but I guess a specific mission arc could allow for these ship upgrades and a corresponding C-store Micro Transaction could work
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    i have been thinking about this since day 1, and would love it to be in game.

    i personally am already going to nerf myself, im planning my stat distribution around the intrepid class, and i intend to sick with that ship and ignore the admiral level science vessals.

    im certainly gonna miss my extra hull/shields and console slots.. but IMO it is worth the sacrifice to captain the ship from my favorite star trek franchise... (Voyager for the simpletons)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ryum wrote: »
    I didn't think about it before but I guess a specific mission arc could allow for these ship upgrades and a corresponding C-store Micro Transaction could work

    i dont think that cryptic thinks farther than what is for lunch that day
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    DES_SNIPER wrote: »
    i dont think that cryptic thinks farther than what is for lunch that day

    I think you might be right :\
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I really hope they add this feature. Most of my favorite ships (among those currently in the game) occupy lower tier slots, and I really don't particularly care for any of the top-tier ones.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    just a classic bump post
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    They would need to add:
    • Hull slot(s), Hull = hull point * Tech * ships size,
    • Warp Core slot(s), Warp Core = Power * Tech * Core size,
    • Station slot(s) Station = Ensign,Lt., Lt.Cmdr, Cmdr., etc<- the quality of the stations not the number of
    I don't think they would have the ship get bigger (they might) but it could be useful for adding more variety.

    Also it would address issues players have with the ship designs (some want more hull though it means less speed, some may want more power but less effiecent etx.)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I support this. The upgrade should simply cost as much as buying the target tier ship, i.e. upgrading your Nova Class ship to a T5 ship, say Deep Space Science Vessel, should cost as much as buying a brand new of the latter. I would increase long-term ship variety by many magnitudes!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I wouldn't mind this being a money sink for the game, that works for me. As for the customization... that is something I'd like to see implemented anyways.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I hope so. I specifically wasted points in maxing Tactical Escort just so I can squeeze out as much as possible with my Defiant because it's my favorite ST ship, but I know that eventually I'll be in a Dervish...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Definitely needed, especially since alot of the end game ships look terrible. I mean, really terrible. We need ships of all tiers in the end game or its just not Star Trek.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I support this. And since this is the area Devs come for, you know, actual gameplay player feedback, i think people should keep this thread alive :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I support this too. Already looking at the Advance Escort ship, and i tihnk it looks WAY better then the Fleet one, id really love to fly at LEAST one or the other in the end, and not be nerfed, but possible to upgrade. One can only hope.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I'll have to see it in game, but I actually like the look of the fleet escort from what I have seen from screenshots. That said, I'd still like to be able to upgrade, and customize the ships.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Definitely support this, as I have from the past posts that suggested it. It would add to every aspect of the game, from customization (making your captain/ship stand out from the 'pack') to PvP (unpredictability in enemy strength) to just an overall sense of attachment to one's own ship.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The pvp surprise part is something I hadn't thought about. I like it, but even if the developers did not they could still come up with an easy way to make an altered graphic for an enemy combatant to see so they'd know they are flying up on an upgraded ship.

    I would prefer to keep the surprise part personally, but I think no matter what the general idea could be implemented in a way to bypass those possible pvp concerns.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    This would make it a lot easier for me to avoid the Fugly Heavy Cruisers entirely.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    This idea has been bumping around since CB. A good number of people support it, myself included. We can postulate about how it would be implemented but we, as players, do not understand how the game code works and how it could be implemented. This is a place where it would be nice to have direct dev exchange.

    To me this speaks to the eventual need for player representatives who can talk with the STO dev staff about what is and is not possible. A few studios do this. Given the importance of the IP to Cryptic and fans it would be nice to see direct cooperation between players and developers as CCP does with EVE. SOE has a similar program through the SOE Fan Fair where in they have serious sit-downs with community leaders once a year to explore possibilities in development.

    Back on the topic...

    Refitting of ships is very common in the canon. I do not think it is unreasonable in rearguard to that to have a "refit" option. Even the Miranda can be tooled out to be FAR more effective, perhaps equivalent to a T4 space-frame. I would expect such a refit would have to be done incrementally, a tier at a time, and would be extremely expensive.

    Providing various options for refit would be very cool. "Buying" alternative equipment slots and BO slots as the refit progresses. Even porting ship attributes between the Fed and the Klings would be acceptable. Imagine a Miranda with the innards of a T4 BoP or a T2 Connie with the innards of a Negh'Var.

    branching attributes with limitations in refitting according to prior refits is an obvious option. if you add another engineering console slot to a Miranda you can add either another engineering or science BO slot. If you add a science BO slot instead of an engineering BO slot you can only take a silence console. taking the engineering console slot and then an engineering BO would then open up the ability to reinforce the hull. If that reinforcement is taken then it cuts off adding another tactical console but maybe not preventing a tactical BO.

    Each addition is one increment. Each increment increases pretty substantially in EC cost. Eventually the refit tree truncates itself due to crossover limitations. you can only refit to a certain point and refit diversity limits potentual refit options.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Agree with all posts above. It is needed. I would love to keep my TOS Connie. The nostalgia,...the dream of 40 years, kept alive. And it would be great to see all classic ships still viable and usable endgame. Make it so!:)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    They simply need a shipwright system... I mean this game *begs* for one... More so than pretty much any sci-fi game out there...

    Ships chassis expansions and component customizations...

    Look at SWG's reverse engineering system, and look at the old paper Star Trek RPG from the 80's for queue's on ship-making...

    If you divided the customizations up so your old ships could be specialized for PvE ...Raids... or PVP specializations, you could expand all of those subsystems for every type of player in this game...

    That is significant

    Bump for this
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I agree,

    1. More customization

    2. Makes all ships viable throughout your career

    3. Adds more choices/depth to game

    As far as pvp issues, if you see the persons rank above their name then problem solved. You know that if you're fighting an admiral, then the ship is probably a refit.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    someGit wrote: »
    They simply need a shipwright system... I mean this game *begs* for one... More so than pretty much any sci-fi game out there...

    Ships chassis expansions and component customizations...

    Look at SWG's reverse engineering system, and look at the old paper Star Trek RPG from the 80's for queue's on ship-making...

    If you divided the customizations up so your old ships could be specialized for PvE ...Raids... or PVP specializations, you could expand all of those subsystems for every type of player in this game...

    That is significant

    Bump for this

    yeah, I'm absolutely against players making ships. It makes no sense what so ever. The only way it could is if Cryptic adds a neutral faction that can cross boarders and then dedicated noncombat crafting classes. Both of which I emphatically support. But, in addition to that a single player should never be able to make any part of a ship by themselves with the exception of consoles. even making larger parts such as beam arrays or full space-frames should be a group effort.

    I don't mean one person makes one component and another takes that component to make another. I mean it would take a 5 person group of engineers with their Bo equivalents to manufacture one frame together, which should take quite a bit of time and resources (which are not in the game at this time). This is also EMPHATICALLY support.

    Only then would we see something resembling the Star Fleet Engineering Corps at UPSY. THAT would be cool and accurate and fun. Single players making giant ships, no thanks.


    EDIT: Crafting Raid content, interesting...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ryum wrote: »
    I am looking at
    http://suricatasblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/stoshiptierchart1.png

    From one tier to the next there are various stat increases, and additional weapon console and what not.

    Just as an example
    You have a Defiant Class Tactical Escort
    Right now the only difference between it and the other Tactical Escorts are cosmetic, and that's fine with me.

    When you rank up you and the next tier opens that automatically puts you into
    Prometheus Class Advanced Escort
    The upgrades you get are
    Hull +500
    Crew +100
    Turnrate -2
    Additional Sci, and Tac BO
    Additional Aft Weapon

    If with your character you want your career to be a Defiant Class Captain, in the future do you think it will be possible to just buy upgrades to make your ship stat wise match the higher tiers? In return you forgo being able to take command of one of those ships.


    Again that was just an example, you could sub in any ship. I just like the idea of being able to pick out whatever ship feels like the best fit for you and be able to keep it viable if you wanted to.

    This is a neat idea. It makes sense as we have seen many times a tricked out ship that is well beyond its power band range all because a captain or admiral likes to that ship/class.

    For Science the coming Captain line of ships I find completely offensive. No I do not want a beachball on the front of my ship. Additionally this line of ships for Bridge Officer consoles make not sense - if the sto wiki is correct. At work right now not in game. The load out is 3 1 1. The next tier of ship is 3 2 2. Huh? This is beyond reason. What would make more sense and offer better scaling for 3 2 1. I hope this is an error on the site otherwise stacking 3 consoles on one thing without some other skills to balance it out is silly.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ayenn wrote:
    yeah, I'm absolutely against players making ships. It makes no sense what so ever. The only way it could is if Cryptic adds a neutral faction that can cross boarders and then dedicated noncombat crafting classes. Both of which I emphatically support. But, in addition to that a single player should never be able to make any part of a ship by themselves with the exception of consoles. even making larger parts such as beam arrays or full space-frames should be a group effort.

    I don't mean one person makes one component and another takes that component to make another. I mean it would take a 5 person group of engineers with their Bo equivalents to manufacture one frame together, which should take quite a bit of time and resources (which are not in the game at this time). This is also EMPHATICALLY support.

    Only then would we see something resembling the Star Fleet Engineering Corps at UPSY. THAT would be cool and accurate and fun. Single players making giant ships, no thanks.


    EDIT: Crafting Raid content, interesting...

    I have no problems with what you're saying..I would be for that as well...

    I'm just going by mechanics of systems that have worked brilliantly in the past....

    I'm all-for STO coming up with a more Trekish implementation of it...

    I just know for *certain* that it should be in game... The details are for the designers to mull-over... Your idea is as good as any...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Actually, as I read this I was thinking of Admiral Riker's souped-up Future Enterprise-D with the 3rd nacelle from the last episode of the series. They also said it was an "Admiral's prerogative" on what flagship he received, so at least the idea has some canon supporting it.

    Not a bad thing to have eventually, I think.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    someGit wrote: »
    I'm all-for STO coming up with a more Trekish implementation of it...

    I just know for *certain* that it should be in game... The details are for the designers to mull-over... Your idea is as good as any...

    I agree completely. Mine are only as good as anyone else's. The details are for the developers to mull over. All we can, and should do, is put our ideas out there for them to ponder, if they care to ponder about them. Looks like I need to become one of those developers ;) (j/k, kind of)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I can't honestly weigh in at all on the possibility of people being able to create new ships... That would be amazing for the develops to try and put together, but that might even be something that comes with an expansion.

    For the upgrades and customized stats you are basically just changing the numbers. I don't know how hard it would be to create the interface to allow us to make those changes... but I think the ability to make X ship have "Hull +500, and Crew +100" should be possible.

    To make it so we can not customize on a point to point bases which could lead to some complications. Instead they just create a ton premade variations of each ship.
    Maybe something like this would be best (using the defiant as the example)
    Tactical Escort Defiant (defualt)
    Hull 25000
    Crew 50
    Device Slot 2
    Impulse Mod 0, 20
    Turnrate 17
    Tac BO
    Sci BO
    Eng BO
    Eng BO
    Eng Console
    Eng Console
    Sci Console
    Sci Console
    Tac Console
    Tac Console
    Tac Console
    Fore Weapon
    Fore Weapon
    Fore Weapon
    Fore Weapon
    Aft Weapon
    Aft Weapon

    That's the defualt, one customized option would be
    Tactical Assault Escort Defiant
    Same as above but 20% hull reduction, +X to turn, +X to speed (I guess Impulse modifier)

    Tactical Resilient Escort Defiant
    Same as above but 20% hull increase, -X to turn, -X to speed

    Those are obviously just made up examples just get the basic idea across. I am not pretending to know what would be balanced in this game with my limited knowledge.

    Now there are options per ship class, and to upgrade it would be something like

    Advanced Escort Defiant (only available when you could otherwise control any T4 ship)
    The upgrades you get are
    Hull +500
    Crew +100
    Turnrate -2
    Additional Sci, and Tac BO
    Additional Aft Weapon

    and so on.
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