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Paid "zones"

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I read about a new area for Champions Online that you apparently have to pay for? its not even an expansion... so I got to wondering if this will happen with STO.

If it did even thou I am a huge Star Trek fan I feel I would have to leave STO behind due to the money grabbing nature of this.

The C-Shop I can live with as long as they don't start to sell items that make a difference to stats etc (ok so they have 2 races there but its not an item and you can pretty much create them yourselves) but to charge for zones (not expansions) is so much of a money grab.
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    It's far too early too be sure, but I wouldn't be surprised and I wouldn't pay.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Link to the article? Otherwise this is just fear mongering.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Dont be ridiculous...

    Basically, CO's new update is an EXPANSION PACK

    And they havent even announced prices or content to it. Only that it will be a exp pack.

    But lets NOT forget ,before this they have had literally tonnes of patchfix's, content updates and so on.

    And if you bother to search or read the website at all, they listed all upcoming content for STO and the fact it will be free.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Tcsola2003 wrote:
    Link to the article? Otherwise this is just fear mongering.
    Eurogamer wrote:
    The unnamed expansion will add a new city, Vibora Bay, which will be a new adventuring zone for levels 37 to 40 - i.e. just below the Champions Online level cap, where the game's content has always been rather thin.

    ...

    Cryptic confirmed that Vibora Bay would cost, although it would "not be something on the scale of a full boxed game. It is a new zone, and will be priced accordingly." Some players, however, feel that filling in content gaps below the level cap is what their subscription is for.
    Source: Eurogamer
    Kitsunami wrote: »
    Dont be ridiculous...

    Basically, CO's new update is an EXPANSION PACK

    One zone that covers three levels, in a range that players have complained had pretty much no content. Sounds quite minor and like something the subscription fees should take care of to me, especially after so many forked out for lifetime.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ulfhedjinn wrote: »
    Source: Eurogamer



    One zone that covers three levels, in a range that players have complained had pretty much no content. Sounds quite minor and like something the subscription fees should take care of to me, especially after so many forked out for lifetime.

    Interesting.

    Like most sane people, i'm going to wait until after they announce everything that's going to be in the patch before judging the patch. For all we know, the line about adding new power sets means 10 new ones however unlikely it is. Then again, i'm one of those players that never ran into that content gap that people kept talking about so I would simply just not buy it if I was still playing *shrug*.

    edit: didn't mean to be insulting in that post
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Tcsola2003 wrote:
    Interesting.

    Like most sane people, i'm going to wait until after they announce everything that's going to be in the patch before whining like a broken motor. For all we know, the line about adding new power sets means 10 new ones however unlikely it is. Then again, i'm one of those players that never ran into that content gap that people kept talking about so I would simply just not buy it if I was still playing *shrug*.

    I thought the new power sets were included in the "kitchen sink patch".

    I don't play Champions, so I don't know. I just browsed their forums for a while when this all erupted.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Last I checked (which I admit was a hella long time ago), it was just a general large quality-of-life patch meant to fix bugs or other issues that were already present.

    edit: http://www.champions-online.com/node/594825 Looking at the patch notes, it is a huge QOL patch.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kitsunami wrote: »

    Yup, those updates are going to be free. However people are worried that Cryptic may eventually try charging for something that they feel should be included as part of paying a subscription for the game.

    Like I said in my first post it's too early to tell, whichever side you are on, but I myself wouldn't be surprised. I'm under no illusions; I know that Cryptic are not my friend, they are a profit-motivated business under the command of Atari and that comes before all else.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kitsunami wrote: »
    Dont be ridiculous...

    Basically, CO's new update is an EXPANSION PACK

    And they havent even announced prices or content to it. Only that it will be a exp pack.

    But lets NOT forget ,before this they have had literally tonnes of patchfix's, content updates and so on.

    And if you bother to search or read the website at all, they listed all upcoming content for STO and the fact it will be free.

    Thats absolutely not true.
    Best people to decide if the Expansion pack is really an expansion is the CO customers.
    Go look at the CO forums.
    STop lying!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ulfhedjinn wrote: »
    However people are worried that Cryptic may eventually try charging for something that they feel should be included as part of paying a subscription for the game.

    Whether or not you agree that MMOs should be able to charge for content at all or not due to the subscription thing, i'm pretty sure that we can all agree that someone will feel that whatever content patch they decide to push out with a fee will be unfair and it'll have its share of complainers that will just have to tell the forums all about their hurt feelings :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The QoL patch is free.

    But the zone is paid. It's optional. And it's not priced as an expansion pack. Basically, it would appear that rather than release one expansion for $50 next year, the idea is maybe to release one fifth of an expansion at a time, as finished, for maybe $10 a shot, keeping in mind CO zones are big.

    It would be like, if instead of releasing Burning Crusade 18 months or so into Warcraft at $50, Blizzard had released everything through Zangarmarsh for $10 after ten months of WoW. Then maybe Nagrand and Terokkar for $10 at twelve months. Then Blade's Edge and Netherstorm for $10 at the fourteen month marker. Then Shadowmoon Valley and daily quests at eighteen months for $10.

    Now, the issue some people have is paying for content this soon. But I think releasing micro-expansions, in general, is fair although it should also be fair to expect more content in existing zones. The reality may well be that CO doesn't have enough subs to cover much new development, however.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Looking at MMO business models going forward MT's are a way of life as the development costs have skyrocketed.

    Even WoW has started MT's and many MMO's look to be heading this way. Instead of raising the monthly fee's which if you look at the time it took to go from 10 to 13 to 15 a month, an increase should be expected but with the economy as it is, it is much easier to charge a MT for something then to raise the monthly fee to 17.

    Don't take MT's as a sign that monthly's wont go up as it's been hinted that Blizzard maybe announcing a new MMO this year and if SW:TOR was 17 a month I wouldn't be surprised.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Tcsola2003 wrote:
    Whether or not you agree that MMOs should be able to charge for content at all or not due to the subscription thing, i'm pretty sure that we can all agree that someone will feel that whatever content patch they decide to push out with a fee with have its share of complainers :D

    I just don't think PC gamers are accustomed to this console-inspired "DLC culture" that's popping up, and rightly so.

    For decades developers would add new zones/levels, items etc. to games as part of regular patching, nowadays they say "we'll call it a mini-expansion or DLC and charge £5-10 for it". The costs add up, especially when you're already paying a monthly fee to play the game and keep it updated.

    What we are used to is large expansions. Large expansions actually breathe a whole new life in to a game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I dont' care a bit about being more powerfull than anyone or having anything they don't have. I only want to have fun.

    The PVP battles level themselves when you join, sending you to a leveled one, and there's no object in this game giving anyone any kind of tactical superiority which you can't level through other habilites, objects, etc.

    That said, If anything ever appears which has to be purchased and I find it cool, I'll buy it or not, and If I don't find it cool then I wont buy it, but I certainly won't believe that Cryptic is acting in any unethical way, because this is a business and businesses are about making money.

    I don't think that leaving a fun game because there is a zone only accesible to people who paid for it is reasonable. If you don't want to pay for it, then don't.

    A lot of people acts as if Cryptic should give us everything we want for free. I don't understand that.

    And that said, Nothing published anywhere has even suggested that we are going to be charged extra to be able to play any quadrant (or planet, building, room, floor tile, chair...) in STO. Yet, if one day they decide to make an expansion about the Gamma Quadrant and sell it as a separated box, What's wrong with it? Lots of games sell expansion packs! And have done so for decades. I remember, for instance, X-Wing more than 10 years ago selling packs wich added some new missions and ships (Things that we have already been told we are going to receive for free in STO), or Warcraft, Star Trek Elite Force, Unreal, The Sims, Alien vs Predator 1, Rollercoaster Tycoon, Heroes of Might and Magic, Tomb Raider, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, The Movies, Black and White... All of them have sold relative new things and some new missions in exchange for money on PC. What's the problem now?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    sjn wrote:
    I read about a new area for Champions Online that you apparently have to pay for? its not even an expansion.
    Perhaps you could clarify something to me: how are zones you have to pay for not an expansion? Isn't the definition of an "expansion" more or less 'additional regions (and usually other content as well) that you have to pay extra for'?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ulfhedjinn wrote: »
    Yup, those updates are going to be free. However people are worried that Cryptic may eventually try charging for something that they feel should be included as part of paying a subscription for the game.

    People will complain no matter what they try to charge for.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Arthalas wrote: »
    A lot of people acts as if Cryptic should give us everything we want for free. I don't understand that.

    I don't think anyone is suggesting any such thing, and they wouldn't be getting it for free since they pay £10 a month.
    JoelKatz wrote: »
    Perhaps you could clarify something to me: how are zones you have to pay for not an expansion? Isn't the definition of an "expansion" more or less 'additional regions (and usually other content as well) that you have to pay extra for'?

    The main complaint from Champions players is that expansions aren't usually to fill in content that was missing from the original game, they are usually implemented to add more content for people who have finished it.
    JansanRuno wrote:
    People will complain no matter what they try to charge for.

    And in this case I don't blame them since they strongly feel that this "expansion" is just filling in content that was missing from an existing level range (37-40), as opposed to what expansions usually do (see above).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ulfhedjinn wrote: »

    What we are used to is large expansions. Large expansions actually breathe a whole new life in to a game.
    Exactly!!
    And the expansion pack that they are selling for CO doesn't do that.
    I challenge anybody to goto the CO forum, look at the facts of the so-called expansion pack and tell me it breathes new life into the game.
    I dare you!
    Prove me wrong!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kitsunami wrote: »
    *cough*

    Im a CO subscriber :P

    I still have access to the forums, and they are merely speculating. No details were given yet.

    I've seen the dev post myself explaining that this expansion "is a zone and will be priced accordingly".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Thats absolutely not true.
    Best people to decide if the Expansion pack is really an expansion is the CO customers.
    Go look at the CO forums.
    STop lying!!

    Someone isn't lying if they disagree with you.

    Look, I feel for CO folks but there are two different development teams on these games and CO subscriptions would appear to be far less healthy, in part due to being a more niche IP and in part because CO offers less new over City of Heroes.

    Even if you hate STO, it really doesn't have a similar competitor. It isn't shooting to be what EvE is. It has some things in common with WoW and especially CO and CoH but it's a different genre.

    Meanwhile, the next closest competitor is SWTOR, due out in over a year. And the biggest difference I can see is a more polished ground system (which STO may catch up to on launch, they look similar overall and TOR looks more instanced than STO in many respects) and voiced cinematics with a choice dialogue at the end, which STO could honestly implement; the core tech for this feature is pretty much visible in the Champions tutorial.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    *cough*

    Im a CO subscriber :P

    I still have access to the forums, and they are merely speculating. No details were given yet.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    And the expansion pack that they are selling for CO doesn't do that.
    !

    Please, link me to where it confirms that it is chargeable. I want to see that (and its price)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ulfhedjinn wrote: »
    I just don't think PC gamers are accustomed to this console-inspired "DLC culture" that's popping up, and rightly so.

    For decades developers would add new zones/levels, items etc. to games as part of regular patching, nowadays they say "we'll call it a mini-expansion or DLC and charge £5-10 for it". The costs add up, especially when you're already paying a monthly fee to play the game and keep it updated.

    What we are used to is large expansions. Large expansions actually breathe a whole new life in to a game.

    I personally feel that DLC in general's part of what's slowly ruining gaming along with regenerating health and the word 'epic' being so over-used.

    That said, I have no problem with them, even the crappy ones, as long as the game functions perfectly fine without them.

    It's kind of like that one time Bethesda tried to charge people for a white horse in Oblivion, it's blatantly overpriced (meaning that they were even charging for it) but not having It doesn't impact my game whatsoever so I didn't care that it existed as I just wouldn't buy it.The more irrational people on the other hand will not only not like the DLC itself, but the concept of having it. Someplace, somewhere, someone is happy with their purchase of an overpriced white horse and those people are annoyed of the concept that someone was actually willing to pay for it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ulfhedjinn wrote: »
    The main complaint from Champions players is that expansions aren't usually to fill in content that was missing from the original game, they are usually implemented to add more content for people who have finished it.



    And in this case I don't blame them since they strongly feel that this "expansion" is just filling in content that was missing from an existing level range (37-40), as opposed to what expansions usually do (see above).

    Aside from that CO was/is really short on content. You have to do every single quest to get to 40 and you have to do some grinding in the middle via repeatable quests to get over some content gaps. The game only has 5 zones and no real endgame.
    At launch they promised to deliver everything later but the content updates were very scarce. they added two holiday events and two dungeon and now the first real content update costs money.
    And since STO was released to with not to much content and no real endgame my guess is that it will be the same story here.
    They will probably sell single sectors with one patrol mission and one or two story mission for 12 bucks.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kitsunami wrote: »
    *cough*

    Im a CO subscriber :P

    I still have access to the forums, and they are merely speculating. No details were given yet.
    My reading of the CO forum suggests you are in the minority.
    I'd also like to apologise for the lying remark.
    You have a different opinion and thats understandable.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    It'll come to a star trek near you soon..

    Remember that the level cap was lowered from 50 to 45 because they couldn't finish it up in time.. Guess what? You'll get it in the form of a paid expansion.. something you should of had from the beginning.. LOL
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    There will inevitably be paid expansions - all MMOs do this and why should STO be any different?

    The hope is that such expansions add content that doesn't leave the player-base feeling ripped off and that all the important issues continue to be addressed in free updates.

    It's extremely unlikely that any paid content (except for C-Store stuff) will appear any time in the near future so don't worry about it - we can worry/complain if Cryptic gives us a reason to.

    There's also no point in making suppositions for STO based on Cryptic's past actions with CO and CoX - STO is a whole new ball game with a much broader appeal - they'll be thinking very carefully about their players 'cause both Cryptic and Atari want STO to be a cash cow for a good few years.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Tcsola2003 wrote:
    It's kind of like that one time Bethesda tried to charge people for a white horse in Oblivion, it's blatantly overpriced (meaning that they were even charging for it) but not having It doesn't impact my game whatsoever so I didn't care that it existed as I just wouldn't buy it.The more irrational people on the other hand will not only not like the DLC itself, but the concept of having it. Someplace, somewhere, someone is happy with their purchase of an overpriced white horse and those people are annoyed of the concept that someone was actually willing to pay for it.

    I'd agree, but in this case the main complaint is that this "expansion" is adding content to a level range that's been practically devoid of content since the game launched. I can sympathise with that.

    People who don't pay will have to stay in the zone everybody hates while they grind 37-40.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    thominoh wrote: »
    It'll come to a star trek near you soon..

    Remember that the level cap was lowered from 50 to 45 because they couldn't finish it up in time.. Guess what? You'll get it in the form of a paid expansion.. something you should of had from the beginning.. LOL

    And that affirmation is based in what official post by Cryptic where?

    I don't remember anyone from Cryptic saying anywhere that they are planing to charge us for anything soon. Can you please link me to it?
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