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Space, the edge of the Aqarium, instanced where everyone has gone before.

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Kill in the aqarium, kill on land. over and over and over again.
Scan anomolies. Single player. Chat sucks. Instanced, and un engaging. No crafting.
Yes I'm ranting. Kinda sums up my game experience after about a week of play.
It's getting old quick.

I know content is gonna be added but I fear it is just more of the same stuff.
I don't understand how a space game like e&b from years past can be more engaging and
intreaging than this modern day mo.

As a fan of STAR TREK I feel let down yet again.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Why do i get the feeling that you are treating this game like a single player runthorugh, out there among the stars soloing every mission? MMORPG's require you to put something back in, otherwise why play online at all? Perhaps join a good fleet, work with the fleet, command others or accept orders. It should be a commumal event or you might as well go play Bridge Commander or some such.

    Oh and by the way what you describe basically sums up MMORPGs (at least at launch) - they're like fine wines they (hopefully) mature with age
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    A guy in my guild hit admiral tonight after only playing 3 days 4 hours 15 minutes. He says there is no end game content except for pvp.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    wd_harding wrote:
    Why do i get the feeling that you are treating this game like a single player runthorugh, out there among the stars soloing every mission? MMORPG's require you to put something back in, otherwise why play online at all? Perhaps join a good fleet, work with the fleet, command others or accept orders. It should be a commumal event or you might as well go play Bridge Commander or some such.

    Oh and by the way what you describe basically sums up MMORPGs (at least at launch) - they're like fine wines they (hopefully) mature with age

    I understand the Dev defending line of “it’s a new MMO” however there are signs of a real problem here beyond the simple lack of content at launch. STO has got a great combat system, (although with no Death penalty a meaningless one) but that is about it at this point.

    First don’t get me wrong, I am not hating the game so far, and I truly want STO to succeed. I just have my doubts if it can succeed with the apparent lack of zeal from the Devs when it comes to these issues.

    First, joining a Fleet, sure it is a cool idea, but what do you do as a fleet that you do not do playing solo? Answer, nothing… same missions, same fleet actions. In fact with auto grouping, there is really no point in joining a fleet unless you have friends in the game that you want to communicate with.

    Second there is NOTHING to do aside from fleet actions, wandering encounters, and mission grinding. There are no skills to level with practice, no areas to randomly explore and no rewards for gathering any kind of harvestable resource… some might say that scanning the anomalies count, but there is no skill involved, no crafting, and you cannot just go out and seek anomalies, you have to be in a mission.

    Third there is no verity in the missions. Fly to sector, blow up ships, beam down, kill people, wash rinse repeat. I understand that their will be more missions but if it more of the same stuff nobody will care. Yes there are the rare missions where you transport someone to someplace, or talk to npc’s and answer a trivia question, but first, these are not engaging and second, there are far too few non-kill missions.

    Forth there is no economy in the game. We have 17 types of currency, but there is no crafting, and no demand as people never loose or wear out items.

    Fifth, there are no goals in-game. Everybody is a captain, which is cool, but people can level to 50 (in a few days mind you) then what? Nothing… everyone will eventually hit lev 50 (unless they quit out of boredom) and then have nothing to do. No goals, no mega loot, no meaningful PvP, nothing.

    There are more, but you get the idea, and from the sound of the occasional Dev post, they are simply not going to change anything about the game, just add more content. Of course the fanboys just shout “go play Eve,” but I don’t want to play Eve. I want STO to have an economy, have some mission verity, who knows? Maybe even some endgame content.

    A death penalty and real PvP would be nice too, but that is likely not even a possibility. If they do not fundamentally change some of this I think STO goes down in flames when SW:OR comes out next year and on that day, I will mourn.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    In my opinion a proper MMORPG should not have an endgame, nor should should I be looking for endgame content. Especially this soon. I don't think EVE has an endgame? I've played EVE off and on since beta and have never looked for an endgame. EVE puts me on the edge of my seat.

    If I were a Q, I'd pop into the Cryptic Dev's studio and give them a good quick kick in there TRIBBLE.
    Send them on their way to the other side of the galaxy while 8472 respawns them over and over again
    with no consequences.

    BTW does this game have a list of active fleets somewhere?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    "Fifth, there are no goals in-game. Everybody is a captain, which is cool, but people can level to 50 (in a few days mind you) then what? Nothing… everyone will eventually hit lev 50 (unless they quit out of boredom) and then have nothing to do. No goals, no mega loot, no meaningful PvP, nothing."

    The vast, and I do mean vast, majority of players do not level to Admiral in a few days. Average in game level is only about 15. So why build a game for minority? Powerlevelling is a perfectly valid way to go if that's you bag but you can't blame other for your choices.

    Agree with you about the economy though.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    wd_harding wrote:
    "Fifth, there are no goals in-game. Everybody is a captain, which is cool, but people can level to 50 (in a few days mind you) then what? Nothing… everyone will eventually hit lev 50 (unless they quit out of boredom) and then have nothing to do. No goals, no mega loot, no meaningful PvP, nothing."

    The vast, and I do mean vast, majority of players do not level to Admiral in a few days. Average in game level is only about 15. So why build a game for minority? Powerlevelling is a perfectly valid way to go if that's you bag but you can't blame other for your choices.

    Agree with you about the economy though.

    I am nobody’s power leveler, I am only at level 8 and I am fine with that… I am taking my time… but the complete lack of any endgame content is disappointing to me.

    My big gripe is not the endgame, as I will not be there for at least a couple of months, rather the fact that the Devs are so nonchalant about all this. They act like they have a uber-MMO that is a little light on content… in fact they only have the bare bones of a great combat system, and a few cool story missions.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    mjcrawford wrote: »
    I am nobody’s power leveler, I am only at level 8 and I am fine with that… I am taking my time… but the complete lack of any endgame content is disappointing to me.

    My big gripe is not the endgame, as I will not be there for at least a couple of months, rather the fact that the Devs are so nonchalant about all this. They act like they have a uber-MMO that is a little light on content… in fact they only have the bare bones of a great combat system, and a few cool story missions.

    most mmo's started this way...but these days, no one seems to remember...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    sgtchoice wrote: »
    In my opinion a proper MMORPG should not have an endgame, nor should should I be looking for endgame content. Especially this soon. I don't think EVE has an endgame? I've played EVE off and on since beta and have never looked for an endgame. EVE puts me on the edge of my seat.

    If I were a Q, I'd pop into the Cryptic Dev's studio and give them a good quick kick in there TRIBBLE.
    Send them on their way to the other side of the galaxy while 8472 respawns them over and over again
    with no consequences.

    BTW does this game have a list of active fleets somewhere?

    The endgame of Eve is PvP, but unlike STO the PvP is persistent, and only one instance per system. Plus there are semi-permanent aspects to it, such as building your own Starbase, complete with shipyards, base defenses etc.

    If I were able, I would implement a free expansion to STO called ‘Neutral Zone’ making persistent PvP in the Klingon Neutral Zone. This would include the ability to take territory, build bases, etc.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    mjcrawford wrote: »
    I am nobody’s power leveler, I am only at level 8 and I am fine with that… I am taking my time… but the complete lack of any endgame content is disappointing to me.

    My big gripe is not the endgame, as I will not be there for at least a couple of months, rather the fact that the Devs are so nonchalant about all this. They act like they have a uber-MMO that is a little light on content… in fact they only have the bare bones of a great combat system, and a few cool story missions.

    http://www.startrekonline.com/upcoming_content - Have you read this at all?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I do very little pvp in EVE. Explore, WH, Trading and Scouting for my corp. Anyways EVE is not what I want to succeed. Star Trek is. This game needs a major kick in the TRIBBLE to capture peoples attention after the "STAR TREK" name has worn off. As it seems once your in the aqarium there is not much Trek in the stars here.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    # Collateral Damage - Help save civilians caught in a battle between the Borg and Undine.

    =

    Go to system x and kill some undine.
    Beam down to planet and scan anomoly.
    Beam up and kill some borg.
    Beam down to planet to recover ancient artifacts 4/4
    Travel to Alpha Centari to meet up with Trill.
    Transport Trill to planet y.
    Rescue Civiliams.

    # Recovery - In this follow-up to Collateral Damage, Rescue colonists infected by the Borg virus and fight Undine determined to destroy them!

    Speak with Trill about infencted Borg.
    Kill Infected Borg in Space
    Kill more infected Borg on PLanet.
    Scan Asteroid Anomly in space.
    Find antidote in Asteroid stolen by Ferengi Trader.
    Save Civilians.

    Engaging isn't it.

    # State of Q - Q transports you back in time to do him a special favor.

    Surpise Me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Tell me a game (NO, strategy games and Tetris dont count) that cannot be reduced to killing/searching/exploring?

    I am highly interested :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Poldii wrote:
    Tell me a game (NO, strategy games and Tetris dont count) that cannot be reduced to killing/searching/exploring?

    I am highly interested :D

    Vanguard??
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    wd_harding wrote:

    not yet... I am open minded but I am somewhat skeptical based on what I have seen so far...

    like I have said before, I do not hate the game, I am a life time sub, but I am doubtful if they do not change things substantially.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Just wanted to agree with the original OP. I may not be in a fleet, and I may choose to play through the game without a fleet, but that doesn't mean it should FEEL like a single player game. I played WoW for years solo and never had it feel that way. For a game that plays through like a single player game and has 0 content that requires you to group up they could have easily just put a single player mode in the game like Hellgate London did. At least that way you could still play a terrible game that you PAYED for without having to support the company monthly.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    sgtchoice wrote: »
    # Collateral Damage - Help save civilians caught in a battle between the Borg and Undine.

    =

    Go to system x and kill some undine.
    Beam down to planet and scan anomoly.
    Beam up and kill some borg.
    Beam down to planet to recover ancient artifacts 4/4
    Travel to Alpha Centari to meet up with Trill.
    Transport Trill to planet y.
    Rescue Civiliams.

    # Recovery - In this follow-up to Collateral Damage, Rescue colonists infected by the Borg virus and fight Undine determined to destroy them!

    Speak with Trill about infencted Borg.
    Kill Infected Borg in Space
    Kill more infected Borg on PLanet.
    Scan Asteroid Anomly in space.
    Find antidote in Asteroid stolen by Ferengi Trader.
    Save Civilians.

    Engaging isn't it.

    # State of Q - Q transports you back in time to do him a special favor.

    Surpise Me.

    Maybe next time put a spoiler alert in the thread if you are going to post a mission?

    Anyhow, I can't think of any MMO out there that doesn't boil down to "click x" or "kill x" or "find x", or some flavor of them. That is, if you strip off all the fluff put around them, and get down to the basic functions. That being said, its the story and reasons behind doing such things that can make it either appear to be "go get x" (if poorly done), or something that the player doesn't really realize (if done well).

    While you might have had to click and kill a lot, I've done some of the following:
    - Uncovered a Klingon attempt to utilize genetic engineering
    - Got to travel back in time to stop a Klingon attempt to alter it
    - Help defend helpless freighter captains against pirates
    - Assist civilizations in trouble with threats against their worlds
    - Peacefully resolve some conflicts
    - Thwarted an attempt by the Klingon's to activate a Doomsday device
    - Help a Star Fleet fleet stop a Klingon invasion attempt
    - Uncovered Undine attempts to infiltrate positions of high command and control
    - Participated (unknowingly at first) with black ops, so that a Federation spy could be placed
    - Helped swing negotiations for mining rights into the Federations favor over the Klingons
    - Rescued civilian hostages taken by enemies of the Federation
    - Uncovered sabotage attempts by the Orion Syndicate
    - Encountered possible reasons why the Romulan homeworld has been destroyed.

    And I'm sure there are more that I just can't think of off the top of my head. Since I'm not even at the halfway point, I would anticipate there is more to come too. And, each one of these has it's own story, that I've found to be interesting.

    Anyhow, if you don't want to read the story behind each of the missions you are doing, that's fine. That is your prerogative. However if that is the case, I think you are going to be sorely disappointed with just about every MMO out there. They all are like what you are complaining about if you strip off the story and motivations.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Soluss wrote: »
    Vanguard??

    Well even there you encounter this problem...like in Ultima Online too. But we should be fair and compare STO not with sandbox games......through i like them..all of them have only limited subscriber numbers...they are not casual. I really dont know a game to compare STO with...its a mix of so much...but its light.

    Planetside light (shooting part)
    Eve light (space part)
    Warhammer light (public quests)

    Its a bit of everything...something new...a frankenstein mmo :D and i like it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Poldii wrote:
    Tell me a game (NO, strategy games and Tetris dont count) that cannot be reduced to killing/searching/exploring?

    I am highly interested :D

    it is not that the missions/quests/whatever do not involve this stuff, it is that in STO that is ALL there is to do. no economy, crafting, etc.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Poldii wrote:
    Well even there you encounter this problem...like in Ultima Online too. But we should be fair and compare STO not with sandbox games......through i like them..all of them have only limited subscriber numbers...they are not casual. I really dont know a game to compare STO with...its a mix of so much...but its light.

    Planetside light (shooting part)
    Eve light (space part)
    Warhammer light (public quests)

    Its a bit of everything...something new...a frankenstein mmo :D and i like it.

    I didnt mean sandbox, I meant that they have a nifty diplomacy system... something completly unique and they have a really involved crafting system.

    But in essence like the poster said above... this game just needs a diversion. something that is not combat. something that is interactive and involving that doesnt revolve around zone in, kill, zone out, hail, rinse repeat.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Soluss wrote: »
    I didnt mean sandbox, I meant that they have a nifty diplomacy system... something completly unique and they have a really involved crafting system.

    Diplomatic system...i thought of something like the conversations in Monkey Island..multiple choice...but then...there would be the guides...."select 1,2,4,1 and you finish the mission without fighting" hmm..could this work? and thats only for 2 different solutions....and the world is not persistend..its instanced...how would another player react? How much influences following missions...for this simple example there are hundreds of possibilities....and i dont think any company has the resources to do this things in MMO's (no not even bioware :P I only believe it when i have played it)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The game has been live for 4 days and you are worried about end game content? Give them a chance. Right now there are 2 big story arc's that Admiral Quinn gives out. Those are timed so you can't do them until you reach certain levels. The instance content will get boring if you focus on the exclusively.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    mjcrawford wrote: »
    I understand the Dev defending line of “it’s a new MMO” however there are signs of a real problem here beyond the simple lack of content at launch...

    I have to more or less agree here. I'm no power-leveler either - I played for the majority of the head-start and I'm a LC~5, but on consideration of this post, while I have indeed enjoyed the game thus far, fact is I've found myself becoming bored with every MMO I played pretty rapidly, and I do fear for the novelty of the Star Trek name wearing off overly quickly. The content is already becoming fairly repetitive and I fear for hitting the level cap before too long - I've quit every MMO I've played not long after this point.

    The only one I've never come close to a cap in was EVE. The fantastical complexity of EVE was what kept me playing, though that game has it's own flaws, chief among which was that the content was not terribly present, and what there was of it was neither particularly engaging or immersive. I had to do too many of the same missions over and over and over to progress, and as time went on and my "level" increased, the missions began to take WAAAAAAAAAY too long: long missions are not a substitute for either quantity nor quality of unique content. How long is it going to be before the battlespace is filled with far more Admirals than ensigns? Missions and fleet and PVP engagements that limit the number of each class of ship in the zone would be a start here - too bad the devs are unlikely to be taking notice.

    That said, this game is going to need a lot of work, and at this time I wouldn't even remotely consider a lifetime subscription - I still haven't even received the add-on content I was supposed to get for pre-ordering the deluxe edition. I also worry about the dev's commitment to the geekery that keeps Trek geeks happy and resulted in so many technical manuals that have sparked so many real-world ideas. Distances between solar systems measured in just a few light years (Alpha/Proxima Centauri - the nearest STAR to Earth - is 100 light years away)? Distances between ships during space battles occurring in 10km or less (the range on modern (the range on 90's-era medium range air-to-air missiles is ~50km, or 5 times that)? Even the fishbowl is broken because I can't fly upside-down or even aim my nose directly upwards, having to spiral up to attack an enemy above me - a lack of a truly 3-dimensional battlespace is pretty disturbing, and with as long as they have been working on this game with a large number of paid, full-time developers and they can't even get this stuff right - or a working in-game music player at launch, or internal documentation re: the actual effect of the various items, and a whole other laundry list of items... I worry for the level of fail that might be yet to come.

    Dev's take note, you have the start of something good here, but as far as I'm concerned I feel like I'm paying to play a beta. A very polished and content-rich beta to be sure, but in a paid environment, your content people and artists, etc., should have been working their butts off from day one while the programmers were working on the engine etc., and to be honest after the amount of time this game has been in development, I'd expect rather more content as well as a somewhat slower progress pace and more to do to keep me interested (more ship upgrades and modifications, for example) while I'm working towards said progress.

    I do NOT want to play EVE. I want to play Star Trek, but I think the people at Cryptic would do well to take more cues from EVE than WoW. I definitely want more skills, crafting, a better game economy, a little more attention to detail and immersion (I do not feel like I'm at warp at all when cruising around sector space, and this is rather disappointing), more to explore, more "one time" content, and more.. well a lot - I get the impression that the dev alpha test was excessively private, the beta was far too short, and the beta testers were likely ignored far too much. I also get the feeling that the people consulted about the game re: ST were movie and gaming industry execs, and not the people who have been ST fans for so long to make it into a popular enough franchise to warrant its own MMO. SW:OR's release date is still at least a year off, but unless the STO devs pull a few hundred rabbits out of their hats in short order, I have a feeling I'll have had several months of $10/month saved up from not playing STO to put in to SW:OR by then. Which sucks, I like ST way more than SW.

    Also, for the love of *, please start rotating the patch time out with 3 - 5 AM in India and let people elsewhere in the world suck on it instead of cutting my off right in the middle of my play time every day. I understand that that may be the golden hour with the fewest players overall, but there ARE people playing at that time, and if you can't be bothered to have enough server to load-balance the game and leave one server cluster up while you work on the other, then at least balance the downtime across the day and not penalize the people who just happen to be awake at 3-5am PST every day - that will get me to find another game to play faster than anything else. It will also help keep me from ranting on these forums on a regular basis.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cryptic don't do "deep" as a rule of thumb. Know this and your expectations wont be too disappointed.

    Cryptic do FPSMMO's..........all about combat and pretty colours.
    Don't look for deep anything in a Cryptic MMO. Is this a bad thing? You know a while ago I might have said yes..But now I'm not too sure.

    I love having a piece of garlic bread or whatever before my main meal.
    Cryptic MMO's are just that. They are an appetizer before the main course. Their MMO's will never completely fill the bill for our gaming needs..but for a nice lite snack they do fine.

    Jump in blow stuff up jump out. Log into your main MMO for something more thoughtful and immersive..

    It works great that way.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Problem is, I'm still looking for an MMO that can keep my attention any longer than a decent FPS does - much less a truly good one.

    At this point it'd be a tough call on whether I'll be playing STO as long as I'll play MW:LL, which is currently only in beta. Granted I'm lucky enough to be involved with the developers of the game and thus have something of an inside track on it to keep me interested and playing, but seriously, people are still playing MW4 all these years later, old graphics, no updates, no patches, heck, MW4 hasn't gotten any new content, I'm pretty sure, since WoW released.

    I *WANT* STO to be the MMO for me, but this idea is starting to seem pretty doomed. At any rate I'll keep playing till I get bored and not a minute longer. The dev's already got me on the initial investment: I'll grant I've had more fun in the $70 I spent than I would have had seeing 3 movies (which would cost more and last a much shorter time), but... I just dunno. If they want my recurring money, they're going to have to show me some pretty compelling reasons to give it to them by the time time my free 30 days is up.
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