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What's the point of healing? You get zero recognition for it..

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Is Cryptic at any point planning on addressing this absolutely ridiculous system where teh most damage gets the best gear?

If not, do you see any point in anyone ever bothering to heal others? Why should I keep the guy up who is taking the most damage knowing that he's going to get better rewards than I because I'm there to keep him alive while he unloads on Klingons?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I think you are referring to when Ship A and Ship B and attacking Ship C .... you're saying whichever ship, Ship A or Ship B, takes the most damage, will receive the drops when Ship C is destroyed.

    Is that how it works? I hadn't noticed the correlation between damage received and receiving the drop. Lord knows I've been frustrated to see others getting the drops I felt I deserved more than once.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Is Cryptic at any point planning on addressing this absolutely ridiculous system where teh most damage gets the best gear?

    If not, do you see any point in anyone ever bothering to heal others? Why should I keep the guy up who is taking the most damage knowing that he's going to get better rewards than I because I'm there to keep him alive while he unloads on Klingons?

    you don't get experience for healing? Sorry, I haven't gotten a chance to play it yet
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    In fleet encounters, where the best loot is, people get loot at the end depending on how much damage they did... and ONLY how much damage they did.

    So, you're getting escorts who are getting all the awesome loot because the cruisers are soaking up the damage and the science ships are keeping them healed.. while the escorts are free to dish out the damage.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    AdmGillis wrote: »
    In fleet encounters, where the best loot is, people get loot at the end depending on how much damage they did... and ONLY how much damage they did.

    So, you're getting escorts who are getting all the awesome loot because the cruisers are soaking up the damage and the science ships are keeping them healed.. while the escorts are free to dish out the damage.

    Exactly..

    This applies to not only Space fleet actions but ground fleet actions as well.


    Person A does the most Damage, thereby generating the most threat and needs the most heals

    Person B Heals Person A instead of doing damage

    Person A gets the best rewards for doing the most Damage

    Person B gets told to **** off by Cryptic
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Currently how Fleet Actions work is that highest damage total by the end of the action gets a blue item and people who are in places 2 through 5 get greens while the rest get whites.

    I believe that healers should have their own leader rankings so the highest healer gets a blue. Also I believe they need to double the totals of who gets blues and greens. So the highest 2 healers and damage dealers get blues while places 3 through 10 get greens.

    Of course there are potential issues, for one it maybe possible for someone to get 2 blue items if they really work at it, some might not consider this an issue but it might cause some imbalance over-time. Also like the issue with mine spawning there is potential for healing abuse by over healing when its not necessary.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Exactly..

    This applies to not only Space fleet actions but ground fleet actions as well.


    Person A does the most Damage, thereby generating the most threat and needs the most heals

    Person B Heals Person A instead of doing damage

    Person A gets the best rewards for doing the most Damage

    Person B gets told to **** off by Cryptic

    Yes, this is basically how the system works. The issues was raised (and completely ignored) during beta. The developers didn't even bother to comment, and there was quite a large thread about it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I have a fix for this issue....

    Buy an escort for fleet actions. Problem solved.


    Right now its broken, the best way WE can deal with it is to adapt.


    If they choose to fix it then so be it, if not then all you are ever going to see in fleet actions are escorts.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I actually think that an official response would be awsome.

    From my perspective a fix to this (I like the additional healers chart idea) would greatly improve my play experience.

    A big thread was ignored in beta, lets make this a bigger and constrictive one!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Seljek wrote: »
    I have a fix for this issue....

    Buy an escort for fleet actions. Problem solved.


    Right now its broken, the best way WE can deal with it is to adapt.


    If they choose to fix it then so be it, if not then all you are ever going to see in fleet actions are escorts.

    This doesn't help anyone with ground based actions at all. Being a sci officer automatically gimps you in the damage you can do off the bat.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    This doesn't help anyone with ground based actions at all. Being a sci officer automatically gimps you in the damage you can do off the bat.

    eh never played ground based fleet actions... the only one I tried was broken so I gave up on em. But yea, sounds like you are screwed right off the bat there... tough luck.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Seljek wrote: »
    eh never played ground based fleet actions... the only one I tried was broken so I gave up on em. But yea, sounds like you are screwed right off the bat there... tough luck.

    It's not like it's a game breaker or anything, more of a frustration. I just wish the Devs would at least acknowledge the issue.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Its quite depressing. I mean I enjoy playing a Science ship with many heals and CC. Its fun and I feel good keoping people alive. But in Fleet Action I ALWAYS end up in the lowest 3, and thats not cool. :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    They should combine damage taken, damage healed, and damage dealt altogether for total points per ship. Shouldn't be that to keep track of in my opinion.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Are you guys serious this is how it really works? It doesn't make any sense. I just assumed that anyone taking part in the attack would be given equal chance to get the same loot. What is this madness?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Are you guys serious this is how it really works? It doesn't make any sense. I just assumed that anyone taking part in the attack would be given equal chance to get the same loot. What is this madness?

    I also thought this...

    Anyway , I still will extend my shields to those who need it. :cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    They might as well just make Fleet actions Round Robin until its fixed, would be fairer to randomly reward otherwise a large majority of people will go down the DPS route. I'd rather stand back and buff/debuff heal the glass cannons but will be buying an Escort for PVP in the meantime to stand a chance of getting something.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Are you guys serious this is how it really works? It doesn't make any sense. I just assumed that anyone taking part in the attack would be given equal chance to get the same loot. This is madness!

    Fix'd and....



    THIS....IS....SPARTAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!1!!11ONE!1
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Coming from someone who has spent the last three years plus raiding instances in World of Warcraft, let me add to the comments here that the design behind the drops is just plain nuts.

    By making it a DPS only reward system it ensures people will be flying escorts only while those in cruisers and science ships get stuck pretty bad.

    IMO, the system should be based on a random roll.

    Whats more, this is where it would be nice to have it to where you can farm a fleet action with only your fleet (similar to how progression guilds raid dungeons in wow - and can distribute loot amongst the members as they see fit).

    Either way, this is really embarassing to hear about.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    If im not on a team in fleet actions, i just dont heal anyone. Im science/science and fitted to be a mass healer and damage dealer. After the patch, i won the crystal entity by more than 50k over second place.

    So its simple, if youre not on a team or with friends, let em die. They wouldnt take the time to heal you.
    As for organized fleet actions, there is a looting system in place to change who gets what.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Hakawau wrote: »
    As for organized fleet actions, there is a looting system in place to change who gets what.

    Really? Care to expand? I didnt know you could create organized fleet actions. Cool.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Create 3 tiers, Highest Damage, Took the most damage, Highest heals.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I suggest the following equation for ranking:

    [(damage done + damage taken + healing done) X (# of debuffs applied + # of buffs applied)] / # of times you die

    Thoughts?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Is Cryptic at any point planning on addressing this absolutely ridiculous system where teh most damage gets the best gear?

    If not, do you see any point in anyone ever bothering to heal others? Why should I keep the guy up who is taking the most damage knowing that he's going to get better rewards than I because I'm there to keep him alive while he unloads on Klingons?

    Welcome to MMO healing, healers always get the shaft in rewards unless their friends give them things. I usually play healers but I decide that if I did in STO it would be an alt, my main went into Tactical so I could do damage in this game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I suggest the following equation for ranking:

    [(damage done + damage taken + healing done) X (# of debuffs applied + # of buffs applied)] / # of times you die

    Thoughts?
    That way overweighs deaths, buffs, and debuffs. But the basic idea is good. You can fix it by adding constants, like this:
    [(damage done + damage taken + healing done) X (10 + sqrt(buffs applied + debuffs applied))] / [10 + deaths]

    That way, one death doesn't halve your score and the person who applies no buffs or debuffs doesn't get a zero.

    This is probably not perfect. It may overweigh buffs and debuffs, creating a strategy where you do nothing but buff (even if it's useless) every second you can. Perhaps only count buffing a ship in combat at least?

    Devs?!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    bapaveza wrote: »
    I think you are referring to when Ship A and Ship B and attacking Ship C .... you're saying whichever ship, Ship A or Ship B, takes the most damage, will receive the drops when Ship C is destroyed.

    Is that how it works? I hadn't noticed the correlation between damage received and receiving the drop. Lord knows I've been frustrated to see others getting the drops I felt I deserved more than once.

    During fleet actions, currently the person who deals the most damage gets the better of the items at the end of the fleet action. Engineer and Science officers get the lower quality items purely because they do not deal the damage Tactical officers can. The complaint here-in is that there is no benefit to playing Engineer or Science officers, even though they are necessary to make things run somewhat smoother.

    I do agree, but then again, no one told me to play as an Engineer. If I wanted loot well, I would probably have made a Tactical officer instead. Pretty pixels in a game never mattered much to me... it would be nice, but it is not something that I need.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    It is frustrating to have 'healed' many people in Space zones, or been concetrating on turrets and debuffs etc in Ground mode and find yourself 3 up from the bottom of the list of damage when you were there from the very beginning of the War zone. Oh, thanks for the battery reward. :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    JoelKatz wrote: »
    That way overweighs deaths, buffs, and debuffs. But the basic idea is good. You can fix it by adding constants, like this:
    [(damage done + damage taken + healing done) X (10 + sqrt(buffs applied + debuffs applied))] / [10 + deaths]

    That way, one death doesn't halve your score and the person who applies no buffs or debuffs doesn't get a zero.

    This is probably not perfect. It may overweigh buffs and debuffs, creating a strategy where you do nothing but buff (even if it's useless) every second you can. Perhaps only count buffing a ship in combat at least?

    Devs?!

    Yeah I was trying to get it to auto-correct. Maybe have a sub-score for each metric and weight each by 25%? As for deaths hurting you, really it should. I can see making it less severe.

    So the way it would work is you get a rank in the group for the following 4 categories:

    damage done
    healing done
    damage taken
    buffs given/debuffs inflicted

    Then your total rank for the round could follow this equation:

    Sum(daamge rank, healing rank, damage taken rank, buffs/debuffs rank)/(10 + # of deaths)

    Does the 0 in the denominator make it sufficiently less penalizing for dieing? The big issue is I don't want to encourage stupid charges into packs of ships. The death penalty has to be meaningful or this sort of system will be abused.

    EDIT: Worth pointing out that for this to work, your 'rank' would be better if it were higher. For example, say you did the most damage of 5 people. Then you would get a 'rank' of 5 for the round.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    *Still thinks this one deserves some attention*
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    *Still thinks this one deserves some attention*

    Apparently people are afraid of math?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    People have been complaining about this in Champions Online since the start and I don't recall even seeing a dev response on any of the numerous posts. I could be wrong here, since I haven't kept up with it, but I was under the impression that it was at the bottom of the to-do list if it even warranted that much.

    It's certainly something that needs to be worked on. Perhaps having three different categories (damage, healing, dmg taken) would be the best way to go. Only let a person's highest rank out of the three count for the round.
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