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Disabling UI increases framerate by 20-40%

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited February 2012 in Graphical and Sound Issues
This has been going on since Champions was in beta, but those forums and bug reports are all gone. This didn't originally occur when STO was in CB, but has now reoccurred since OB.


I get about 100 fps while in sector space. If I hit alt+f12, that jumps up to 140 fps, and stays there.

On earth space dock, I get about 70-80 FPS. alt+f12 to disable the UI, it jumps up to about 100 fps.

While the number's change, the huge boost in performance still occurs whether I'm on minimum or maximum graphical settings.

I have tested this on multiple PCs now:
my old one running WinXP 32bit, with 4 gigs of ram, a core 2 duo 8400, and a 8800 GT
My current PC, running Win7 64 bit, 8 gigs of ram, a i5 750 and a GTX 275
as well as my fiancee's PC, an older machine running WinXP 32, 2 gigs of ram, a Athlon 64 3200, and a ATI 4850.

In all cases the boost is the same.

Now, while the current UI is easy on the eyes, there are no special lighting effects rendering on it like some games, no special effects when opening/closing windows, and especially no special effects when wandering through space.

Even if the UI itself was based off 200mb bitmaps for /each section/, the game client itself isn't taking up 2 gigs of ram, much less 4, or 8, so that shouldn't be an issue.

This issue is even easier to notice by opening up a UI panel that has even more interactivity: The skills window. That drops your FPS down by a decent amount as well.

I don't know if there is something inherently wrong with the UI team's code, or if there is some sort of memory leak and/or rendering bug with the UI, but there is no reason why a game's UI should take up any performance.


To test this yourself. Load up anywhere, type /showfps 1, watch the upper right's #s for a bit, then hit alt+f12, and watch them again.

If anyone /doesn't/ have this, could you respond with your system specs? I think the only things that would matter is ram/cpu/gpu.

I have bugged this in the game, but all previous reports in CO and earlier reports in OB and now launch have yet to be responded too. I do not know if this means they don't know how to respond or are still looking into it, but I thought posting a thread may help people spitball ideas of possible causes.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    It's the same in any game with a UI. The UI is rendered seperatly from the rest of the game. So your comp is outputting both UI and the game at the same time. It's bound to take a performance hit.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    This has been going on since Champions was in beta, but those forums and bug reports are all gone. This didn't originally occur when STO was in CB, but has now reoccurred since OB.


    I get about 100 fps while in sector space. If I hit alt+f12, that jumps up to 140 fps, and stays there.

    On earth space dock, I get about 70-80 FPS. alt+f12 to disable the UI, it jumps up to about 100 fps.

    While the number's change, the huge boost in performance still occurs whether I'm on minimum or maximum graphical settings.

    I have tested this on multiple PCs now:
    my old one running WinXP 32bit, with 4 gigs of ram, a core 2 duo 8400, and a 8800 GT
    My current PC, running Win7 64 bit, 8 gigs of ram, a i5 750 and a GTX 275
    as well as my fiancee's PC, an older machine running WinXP 32, 2 gigs of ram, a Athlon 64 3200, and a ATI 4850.

    In all cases the boost is the same.

    Now, while the current UI is easy on the eyes, there are no special lighting effects rendering on it like some games, no special effects when opening/closing windows, and especially no special effects when wandering through space.

    Even if the UI itself was based off 200mb bitmaps for /each section/, the game client itself isn't taking up 2 gigs of ram, much less 4, or 8, so that shouldn't be an issue.

    This issue is even easier to notice by opening up a UI panel that has even more interactivity: The skills window. That drops your FPS down by a decent amount as well.

    I don't know if there is something inherently wrong with the UI team's code, or if there is some sort of memory leak and/or rendering bug with the UI, but there is no reason why a game's UI should take up any performance.


    To test this yourself. Load up anywhere, type /showfps 1, watch the upper right's #s for a bit, then hit alt+f12, and watch them again.

    If anyone /doesn't/ have this, could you respond with your system specs? I think the only things that would matter is ram/cpu/gpu.

    I have bugged this in the game, but all previous reports in CO and earlier reports in OB and now launch have yet to be responded too. I do not know if this means they don't know how to respond or are still looking into it, but I thought posting a thread may help people spitball ideas of possible causes.

    Lately I've been getting a performance hit when opening UI windows. Never had this problem before. Seems to have snuck in a few patches back. I take it your not a fan of the EVE interface either? =)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    tedgp123 wrote: »
    It's the same in any game with a UI. The UI is rendered seperatly from the rest of the game. So your comp is outputting both UI and the game at the same time. It's bound to take a performance hit.

    While this is true, it's only a valid statement when the UI itself requires advanced rendering passes. The STO UI is displaying static images, with no post processing or visual effects at all.

    With that in mind, there is no reason why the UI is taking up that much performance. 20-40fps is not a just a performance hit, but a major hit, when you consider 20-40fps over 100 is roughly 30%.

    A UI should not take 30% of a game's system needs.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    While I do not get any increase or decrease in perfomance by hiding the UI, if I open up my Captains skills tab my frame rate drops in half - framerate is at a solid 30 and drops to about 17, I run in window mode at 1920x1200. None of the other tabs do this, the bridges officers skill tabs included. This was not happening until the last patch.

    Relevant stats,

    Win7 x64
    Q9450 (Core 2 Quad @ 2.66Ghz)
    GTX 260 (Driver version 195.62)
    8GB RAM
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Here is some explaination. The UI is a seperate element that is rendered as a layer on top of what ever else is going on in game. So it will take up gpu processing time just like any other element in game. This is a very logical explanation of why you noticing this fps difference.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    THeBaka wrote:
    Here is some explaination. The UI is a seperate element that is rendered as a layer on top of what ever else is going on in game. So it will take up gpu processing time just like any other element in game. This is a very logical explanation of why you noticing this fps difference.

    I follow you completely. However, the fps difference STO's UI is causing is exceedingly disproportionate to the amount of rendering the UI elements should require.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I tend to aggree too but it is possible it is normal too then again anything is possible
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    ahegao wrote:
    While I do not get any increase or decrease in perfomance by hiding the UI, if I open up my Captains skills tab my frame rate drops in half - framerate is at a solid 30 and drops to about 17, I run in window mode at 1920x1200. None of the other tabs do this, the bridges officers skill tabs included. This was not happening until the last patch.

    Relevant stats,

    Win7 x64
    Q9450 (Core 2 Quad @ 2.66Ghz)
    GTX 260 (Driver version 195.62)
    8GB RAM

    I'm seeing the same kind of slowdowns only on the captain skills page. Absolutely no other window induces this framerate drop, including the bridge officer skills pages. Quite odd, to say the least.

    Core i5 750 @ 3.5GHz
    Radeon HD 5770 w/ Catalyst 9.12
    4GB DDR3-1600
    Win 7 64-bit
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I sent a ticket on this today; When I open up my skill tree (now Captain), my FPS will drop to <20, and it's ahrd to click on anything. I usually play 40-90~.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Seeing issues as well when I open the skills tab for my main character.
    Seems everything in the background while that paticular menu is open just slows down.
    I have not clocked the fps for the skills page issue, but I can visually tell from the background behind the skills tab , that things get slow and start to get choppy.

    For some reason I am also seeing a decent amount of lag/grabbing when menus open and I don't recall having that before. Seems like this last part was just started recently and the first thing I mentioned in the opening paragraph has been happening the whole time since OB.

    Not to mention ships often stop and go in space like they have some sort of jet lag or something.
    I do not seem to have lag for my ship or much on the ground, but ships other than my own have this move and pause routine.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I know this thread is a bit old, but the standard UI reduces my FPS by half, and opening windows like inventory halves that!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I get the same drops in FPS but I find it most noticeable on the exchange window. If you have the ex window open and go to check what you have equipped on yourself or your ship then go back to the ex window and scroll its a massive FPS hit.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I just went to try this out.
    Down on some planet I engaged a group of Borg.
    Using Alt+F12 disabled my UI and let the framerate climb up a little, the gameplay was smoother, BUT:
    Whenever a Borg was slain, it just disappeared as it stood.
    No falling to the floor, no animation, nothing except a fade-out.
    So I'm guessing that Alt+F12 also disables some stuff that requires GPU/CPU power just to be ready when it's needed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I set up STO on an older machine of mine and the results were startling. I get 2-3 fps normally in sector space and tried disabling the hud with alt-f12 and immedaitely jumped to 35fps! You can get the same effect by escape to bring up the main menu. This seems to be some janky hud code. It would be kind of crucial for people with older computers to be able to turn off whatever processing effects they are running on the hud.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    ZOMBIE!!!!!!

    I know i'm digging up a dead thread but it's something that is happening to me, did this ever get solved? did anyone figure out a way to fix this or anything?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I was getting slow downs too. Till I discovered the bios setting 'cpu thermal throttling'. With this disabled everything is fine
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    try playing with a rubbish card like mine 45fps max in non crowded areas,drops to 22fps on esd,even with ui disabled i only get 53fps
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I'd like to chime in.

    I run the game at highest settings.
    My resolution is 1920x1600 (desktop resolution).
    I play on a 16:10 Samsung Brilliance 240B monitor. Full Screen mode.

    As cliche as it may be, it is worthy of note that I am able to run many graphically-intensive games without a hitch (and that STO is far from being state of the art ala Crysis-whatever, no offense, it's a beautiful game nonetheless and I love it).

    Usually the game operates at the 40-60fps, averaging in the 45-50s.
    However, whenever the skill and inventory overlays are called in the FPS drops drastically.

    Social / Fleet windows also have a slight effect, but nothing as severe as those two aforementioned.
    They're truly frame-rate killer and upon opening them a steep decline occurs onto the 20-30 FPS, sometimes lower!

    I've used "/showfps 1" and "/fpsgraph 1" to conduct repeated observations and the conclusion is always the same.
    The skill and inventory overlays generate a massive sink that sucks the FPS down instantly from the moment of their rendering.


    And before some wise-guys start blaming it on my machine (as I saw in past threads) as though it can't handle the graphic settings...

    My hardware specs are as follows:

    CPU: Intel Core i7-2600K
    HD: Intel SSD Solid State Disk X25-M 2.5" 120GB SATA2
    MEM: x2 Samsung DDR3 4096MB 1333Mhz CL 9-9-9-27
    GPU: Galaxy nVIDIA GeForce GTX 580 1536MB DDR5 PCIe
    MOBO: Intel BLKDH67CLB3 Cold Lake
    Box: CoolerMaster CM 690 I
    CU: CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Plus
    APU: Chieftec Turbo Modular 700W


    So as you can see, the most common claims (insufficient cpu/gpu power, insufficient memory, harddrive running out of swap room/slow R-W motor/over-fragmented, not enough power to feed the gpu, over-heating machine) are rendered moot.


    It'd be nice to customers/gamers if Cryptic officially acknowledged the existence of the issue and prioritize its treatment, as it is quite cumbersome.


    Thank you very much. :)


    [[
    Post Scriptum:

    Kindly disregard my sig/avatar, last time I was active on the forums been a very long time ago and I haven't bothered to fix it since.
    ]]
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Sorry you guys haven't been getting much traction on this issue. It's here in the Graphical Issues forum because someone falsely assumed the bottleneck is the actual rendering of the UI.

    It's not. It's mostly updates and internal scripts firing off constantly. They do things like determine which abilities you can currently use and grey out things like weapons when your enemy is out of range, out of view, or out of your firing arc. A lot of these checks happen every frame and really start adding up.

    The inventory is particularly bad about it.

    Internally, we've argued the merits of event-driven versus polling for UI updates and we're aware of the performance issues. The UI team takes this into consideration, and I'm sure they try to keep stuff at a reasonable CPU cost.

    This isn't a graphical issue, though. So you're aiming this at the wrong devs. =P
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Sorry you guys haven't been getting much traction on this issue. It's here in the Graphical Issues forum because someone falsely assumed the bottleneck is the actual rendering of the UI.

    It's not. It's mostly updates and internal scripts firing off constantly. They do things like determine which abilities you can currently use and grey out things like weapons when your enemy is out of range, out of view, or out of your firing arc. A lot of these checks happen every frame and really start adding up.

    The inventory is particularly bad about it.

    Internally, we've argued the merits of event-driven versus polling for UI updates and we're aware of the performance issues. The UI team takes this into consideration, and I'm sure they try to keep stuff at a reasonable CPU cost.

    This isn't a graphical issue, though. So you're aiming this at the wrong devs. =P

    ok... then perhaps you could get this thread bumped over to the right ones so it is actually addressed, instead of "Wrong Thread Limbo"?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    ok... then perhaps you could get this thread bumped over to the right ones so it is actually addressed, instead of "Wrong Thread Limbo"?

    +1

    Quoted for truth.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Sorry you guys haven't been getting much traction on this issue. It's here in the Graphical Issues forum because someone falsely assumed the bottleneck is the actual rendering of the UI.

    It's not. It's mostly updates and internal scripts firing off constantly. They do things like determine which abilities you can currently use and grey out things like weapons when your enemy is out of range, out of view, or out of your firing arc. A lot of these checks happen every frame and really start adding up.

    The inventory is particularly bad about it.
    ....
    This isn't a graphical issue, though. So you're aiming this at the wrong devs. =P

    Ah, this does explain why text flickers so much for me. Text on objects in space, on doffs, and other parts of the UI. Good to know. Thanks.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    tmanook wrote: »
    Ah, this does explain why text flickers so much for me. Text on objects in space, on doffs, and other parts of the UI. Good to know. Thanks.

    Is this why the channel selection dropdown flickers as you get near the top and why autocomplete entries for people tend to spaz out on both titles?
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