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Starfleet Rank Structure

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
You begin the game as an Ensign, then get promoted to Lt. Next comes, Lt. Cmd., Cmd, Capt., and lastly Admiral.
However, if you look under the rank insignia under uniforms, you'll see there's insignia for Chief, Lt., Lt. Junior Grade and then Lt. Cmd.

Why is there Chief and Lt. JG when there's no promotion to or from those ranks in the game? How do those ranks fit in with the rest?

I know in the United States Navy, a Chief is a Petty Officer rank, and also the nickname for Warrant Officers. Regular commissioned officer's in the Navy start at Ensign, then go on to Lt. Junior Grade, then Lt., Lt. Cmd, Cmd, Capt, and then the Admiral ranks.

I'm just trying to make sense of the Starfleet rank structure, since we're given access to rank ensignia to ranks we've never held on our characters.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    nate1980 wrote: »
    You begin the game as an Ensign, then get promoted to Lt. Next comes, Lt. Cmd., Cmd, Capt., and lastly Admiral.
    However, if you look under the rank insignia under uniforms, you'll see there's insignia for Chief, Lt., Lt. Junior Grade and then Lt. Cmd.

    Why is there Chief and Lt. JG when there's no promotion to or from those ranks in the game? How do those ranks fit in with the rest?

    I know in the United States Navy, a Chief is a Petty Officer rank, and also the nickname for Warrant Officers. Regular commissioned officer's in the Navy start at Ensign, then go on to Lt. Junior Grade, then Lt., Lt. Cmd, Cmd, Capt, and then the Admiral ranks.

    I'm just trying to make sense of the Starfleet rank structure, since we're given access to rank ensignia to ranks we've never held on our characters.

    Just for visual fun/ options for the players. Basically, in game, I had my character be a 'Lt Jg.' until level 5, but thats just me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Perhaps the developers were assisting the Fleet folks with ranks to match their prescribed fleet structures and fleet uniforms?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    If you think "Where's Sulu?" and "Where's Memory Alpha?" spam is bad, imagine if we had full ranking systems. :eek:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    nate1980 wrote: »
    You begin the game as an Ensign, then get promoted to Lt. Next comes, Lt. Cmd., Cmd, Capt., and lastly Admiral.
    However, if you look under the rank insignia under uniforms, you'll see there's insignia for Chief, Lt., Lt. Junior Grade and then Lt. Cmd.

    Why is there Chief and Lt. JG when there's no promotion to or from those ranks in the game? How do those ranks fit in with the rest?

    I know in the United States Navy, a Chief is a Petty Officer rank, and also the nickname for Warrant Officers. Regular commissioned officer's in the Navy start at Ensign, then go on to Lt. Junior Grade, then Lt., Lt. Cmd, Cmd, Capt, and then the Admiral ranks.

    I'm just trying to make sense of the Starfleet rank structure, since we're given access to rank ensignia to ranks we've never held on our characters.

    Warrant Officers are higher than Chiefs in the Navy. There shouldn't be any Chief option though, enlisted don't get to command ships. E1-E9 are enlisted, Chief is E7. Warrant Officers are W2-W5 and then Officers are O1-O10;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I make my BOs Chiefs and LTJGs.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    What does the chief insignia look like in this game anyway? My account doesn't work at doesn't look like they are doing anything to fix it, so I can't look in game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    What does the chief insignia look like in this game anyway? My account doesn't work at doesn't look like they are doing anything to fix it, so I can't look in game.

    Dependant on uniform type...I use the TNG movie uniforms, so the chief insignia is the single 'open' pip on the collar.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Chief is a non-officer rank. Basically someone who only took the basic course at Starfleety academy. Can't be in charge of anything, except in extreme situations. Their senior enlisted scrubs, basically. (note how Chief O'Brien never got to have the con?)

    Lt. J.G. is between Lt. and Ensign IIRC. To us it would basically be Lt. 1-5. Ensigns can't command other officers, so Lt. J.G. is just a rank where someone hasn't quite completed all the requirements for full Lt, but needs to be able to have authority over a group of officers. (say, Field promotion after most of the command crew is killed, but hasn't finished the various written and aptitude tests required to qualify for Lt.)
    Geordi on TNG spent Season 1 as Lt. J.G. so that he could command the engineering crew (comprised of ensigns and enlisted) as Chief Engineer.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Feor wrote: »
    Chief is a non-officer rank. Basically someone who only took the basic course at Starfleety academy. Can't be in charge of anything, except in extreme situations. Their senior enlisted scrubs, basically. (note how Chief O'Brien never got to have the con?).

    Oh... so - that explains how he became the chief engineer of the defiant and chief of operations on an entire star base...


    no, wait - it doesnt.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Feor wrote: »
    Chief is a non-officer rank. Basically someone who only took the basic course at Starfleety academy. Can't be in charge of anything, except in extreme situations. Their senior enlisted scrubs, basically. (note how Chief O'Brien never got to have the con?)

    Lt. J.G. is between Lt. and Ensign IIRC. To us it would basically be Lt. 1-5. Ensigns can't command other officers, so Lt. J.G. is just a rank where someone hasn't quite completed all the requirements for full Lt, but needs to be able to have authority over a group of officers. (say, Field promotion after most of the command crew is killed, but hasn't finished the various written and aptitude tests required to qualify for Lt.)
    Geordi on TNG spent Season 1 as Lt. J.G. so that he could command the engineering crew (comprised of ensigns and enlisted) as Chief Engineer.

    Well, I can guarantee from your first paragraph that you've never served in the military, otherwise you would be showing a lot more respect towards chiefs who earn/earned it. :)

    If it weren't for the "senior-enlisted scrubs", the officers would be sitting around with their thumb up their collective posterior wondering what to do to make the ship go.

    Officers are entitled to rank, priviledge and respect. Chiefs EARN rank, priviledge and respect. ;)

    <puts soap box away> ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Pyryck wrote:
    Officers are entitled to rank, priviledge and respect. Chiefs EARN rank, priviledge and respect. ;)
    <puts soap box away> ;)

    Junior officers might be entitled to rank, priviledge and respect... but not from Chiefs, and they had better not forget it. This is simply fact, as told to me by a US Navy Captain.

    'Nuff said.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Maidel wrote: »
    Oh... so - that explains how he became the chief engineer of the defiant and chief of operations on an entire star base...


    no, wait - it doesnt.

    Yeah, seeing as how in the real navy the Chief of Operations is an Admiral.:cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Pyryck wrote:
    Well, I can guarantee from your first paragraph that you've never served in the military, otherwise you would be showing a lot more respect towards chiefs who earn/earned it. :)

    If it weren't for the "senior-enlisted scrubs", the officers would be sitting around with their thumb up their collective posterior wondering what to do to make the ship go.

    Officers are entitled to rank, priviledge and respect. Chiefs EARN rank, priviledge and respect. ;)

    <puts soap box away> ;)

    /supported by this NCO.. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    O'Brien was Cheif of the Boat @ DS9. The Chief of Operations for the whole US Navy is comparable to the CEO of a large corporation in scope and should be an Admiral. The Cheif of the Boat like O'Brian is the ranking enlisted man ona boat or base. Go tell the Top E9 at Norfolk he doesn't command anybody and isn't due instant respect from an anything less then an O6+ . See how that works out Or you could find a Command Master Sergeant or a Master Gunns to ask, though I'd be prepared to either duck or run.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    As others have correctly noted NCO's have a wealth of knowledge and experience that junior officers would be wise to pay attention to. In O'Brien's case he may not have been to Starfleet Academy but he had combat experience and was a transporter expert before his assignment to the Enterprise D. O'Brien may not have had the con of the Defiant but he was at the helm of the Enterprise D in TNG's very first episode :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Sounds like a classic case of "NCO vs CO". Even in Star Trek...I love it.

    :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Despriox wrote:
    Junior officers might be entitled to rank, priviledge and respect... but not from Chiefs, and they had better not forget it. This is simply fact, as told to me by a US Navy Captain.

    'Nuff said.

    See, the Captain knew his place in the hierarchy of things and knew where JO's belonged. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I'm reminded of an episode of DS9 when Nog was trying to get into Starfleet Academy. O'Brien said something to the effect of "once he graduates I'll haveto call home sir."
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Maidel wrote: »
    Oh... so - that explains how he became the chief engineer of the defiant and chief of operations on an entire star base...


    no, wait - it doesnt.

    Chief O'Brien is also a special case. Remember.. he was an un-named helmsman in the series opener for TNG, and then an un-named transporter chief until he was called by name in an emergency during an episode as well...
    He had no command authority on the Enterprise. And if you look, officially on DS9 his engineering crew were all crewmen, and once even Nog begame an Ensign, Chief O'Brien had to call him sir. He was given the air of authority without actually having any.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfleet_enlisted_ranks_and_insignia#Chief

    According to this wiki, Chief is a lower rank than Ensign because a chief is considered a non-commissioned member of StarFleet.

    And I'm assuming he became Chief Engineer because he was damn good at his Job. No one, except maybe Rom, knew DS9 and the Defiant as well as he did.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    To give the Warrent officer ranks context although they call even the lowliest commisioned officer sir, and salute them in certain situations they outrank them (for example in the British army the CSM of a company gains operational command of the company during battle if the OC (a Major usually) and the 2IC (A captain) both fall in battle). In addition a Staff Sergant (or equivilent) can be granted command of a Platoon (and have a sergant under him) if there is no Commisoned officer for the role.

    Part of the reason such inexpericended officers are given army commands is so they learn from their NCOs.

    Promorion is possible from the ranks, in the british army this takes place at 2 points sergant/staff sergant where the promotion would be to a 2nd Lieutenant, and from WO2 (CSM or equivilent) where the commsioned rank gained is Captain. These promotions happen when it is decided theri talents are better suited to the commisioned position rather than the next natural promotion.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Delta7640 wrote:
    Chief O'Brien is also a special case. Remember.. he was an un-named helmsman in the series opener for TNG, and then an un-named transporter chief until he was called by name in an emergency during an episode as well...
    He had no command authority on the Enterprise. And if you look, officially on DS9 his engineering crew were all crewmen, and once even Nog begame an Ensign, Chief O'Brien had to call him sir. He was given the air of authority without actually having any.

    Well he was also addressed as 'lieutenant' and wore both ensign and lieutenant pips in TNG before being named.

    So thats not the best referance for him really is it...

    And on DS9, if you can honestly say, hand on heart, that you truely think every single one of the opperations team were enlisted....

    And not only that - you are wrong - EG - Ensign/lieutenant Jones served under obrien on DS9 - he was in 56 episodes of DS9 and he regularly took orders from o'brien.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    nate1980 wrote: »
    You begin the game as an Ensign, then get promoted to Lt. Next comes, Lt. Cmd., Cmd, Capt., and lastly Admiral.
    However, if you look under the rank insignia under uniforms, you'll see there's insignia for Chief, Lt., Lt. Junior Grade and then Lt. Cmd.

    Why is there Chief and Lt. JG when there's no promotion to or from those ranks in the game? How do those ranks fit in with the rest?

    I know in the United States Navy, a Chief is a Petty Officer rank, and also the nickname for Warrant Officers. Regular commissioned officer's in the Navy start at Ensign, then go on to Lt. Junior Grade, then Lt., Lt. Cmd, Cmd, Capt, and then the Admiral ranks.

    I'm just trying to make sense of the Starfleet rank structure, since we're given access to rank ensignia to ranks we've never held on our characters.

    So you know, Junior Grade Lieutenant is basically a glorified Ensign (top of the class kind of thing) and you can choose that rank while you are still an Ensign. The Chief rank is exactly the same as the Lieutenant rank. It just has a different name because it refers to specifically Engineering personnel.

    :cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Blackavaar wrote: »
    So you know, Junior Grade Lieutenant is basically a glorified Ensign (top of the class kind of thing) and you can choose that rank while you are still an Ensign. The Chief rank is exactly the same as the Lieutenant rank. It just has a different name because it refers to specifically Engineering personnel.

    :cool:

    Facepalm....

    No.

    Chief is a chief petty officer - which is TECHNICALLY a lower rank than Ensign - but it is given to an enlisted officer who has served a long time and thus, has far more experiance than an ensign (or a lieutenant for that matter) and often find themselves in rather senior positions.

    Ensign - lieutenant JG - Lieutenant - these are all fully separate ranks. SOMETIMES exceptional candidates can skip ensign (the implication is the Bashir went straight from the academy to lieutenant JG) but in most cases you have to progress through each rank taking years to do so.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    If anyone wants to look at it, here is the ranks according to memory alpha http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Starfleet_ranks
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Feor wrote: »
    Chief is a non-officer rank. Basically someone who only took the basic course at Starfleety academy. Can't be in charge of anything, except in extreme situations. Their senior enlisted scrubs, basically. (note how Chief O'Brien never got to have the con?)

    Lt. J.G. is between Lt. and Ensign IIRC. To us it would basically be Lt. 1-5. Ensigns can't command other officers, so Lt. J.G. is just a rank where someone hasn't quite completed all the requirements for full Lt, but needs to be able to have authority over a group of officers. (say, Field promotion after most of the command crew is killed, but hasn't finished the various written and aptitude tests required to qualify for Lt.)
    Geordi on TNG spent Season 1 as Lt. J.G. so that he could command the engineering crew (comprised of ensigns and enlisted) as Chief Engineer.

    What rot. Chief on a ship is short for chief engineer and is not rank specific but he will be most usually a commissioned officer. Higher in the ranks ( you can have a chief admiral ) it is different. The Chief is always the first officer in charge of propulsion and can often be the 3rd or 4th mate on a vessel (your commander or 'number 1' being your first mate under the captain )

    I sail a 19th century brigantine and we have a master, a skipper a bosun and a chief and they are the paramount crew on the ship. ( I'd include,the electrician in that but he's just the 'sparks' )
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    What rot. Chief on a ship is short for chief engineer and is not rank specific but he will be most usually a commissioned officer. Higher in the ranks ( you can have a chief admiral ) it is different. The Chief is always the first officer in charge of propulsion and can often be the 3rd or 4th mate on a vessel (your commander or 'number 1' being your first mate under the captain )

    I sail a 19th century brigantine and we have a master, a skipper a bosun and a chief and they are the paramount crew on the ship. ( I'd include,the electrician in that but he's just the 'sparks' )

    erm...

    That may be true in real life - but it sure has hell isnt true in star trek.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    What rot. Chief on a ship is short for chief engineer and is not rank specific but he will be most usually a commissioned officer. Higher in the ranks ( you can have a chief admiral ) it is different. The Chief is always the first officer in charge of propulsion and can often be the 3rd or 4th mate on a vessel (your commander or 'number 1' being your first mate under the captain )

    I sail a 19th century brigantine and we have a master, a skipper a bosun and a chief and they are the paramount crew on the ship. ( I'd include,the electrician in that but he's just the 'sparks' )

    What country uses these titles? This setup isn't used in the US Navy.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    What country uses these titles? This setup isn't used in the US Navy.


    I was not talking of the military US navy. I've been on ships all my life, civilian and otherwise. The chief is always the chief engineer regardless of the fact that there are chief petty officer's on board ( who is exactly the naval equivalent of the rank I held in the Army )

    All your US navy ships will have a chief engineer. He runs the engine room. He will be an (enlisted- typo) commissioned officer and as I said, can be the 3rd or 4th mate usually.

    Here are the starfleet ranks from the technical manuals ( which I only offer as an interesting item )

    http://twitpic.com/11e757
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I was not talking of the military US navy. I've been on ships all my life, civilian and otherwise. The chief is always the chief engineer regardless of the fact that there are chief petty officer's on board ( who is exactly the naval equivalent of the rank I held in the Army )

    All your US navy ships will have a chief engineer. He runs the engine room. He will be an enlisted officer and as I said, can be the 3rd or 4th mate usually.

    Here are the starfleet ranks from the technical manuals ( which I only offer as an interesting item )

    http://twitpic.com/11e757

    Occationally picard will call la forge 'chief' - but its not his rank - merely a shortening of his positional title (chief engineer) - thats no different to calling the guy infront 'con' or commander riker 'number 1'

    Chief is a chief petty officer - its obriens rank.
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