test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

What's Wrong With This Picture?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Before the nerf patch, combat looked a little like this...
--- BEGIN ---
A lone Federation Starship warps in near an apparently uninhabited world. The Captain expects trouble, but there's nothing on scanners. As the ship comes around a large asteroid, three Klingon Birds of Prey uncloak and attack.

The Captain rises from his chair and yells to his Tactical Officer, "OH TRIBBLE! NOT AGAIN!"

After scrambling around, using all available cooldowns, the Federation ship manages to kill one of the Birds of Prey and has another halfway down when the Federation ship explodes in a brilliant fireball, killing everyone on board.

A second death later, the Federation Starship limps away from the first of three battles toward the second spawn point, where there's a battleship. After 10 minutes of battling, running away, burning cooldowns, the Captain has managed to do 1% of damage to the battleship once. Finally, the Captain throws his hands up in disgust and warps out.
--- END ---

As you can guess, this was absolutely and stupidly frustrating, but that was ST:O Open Beta before they nerfed the NPC ships to pea shooters. Now combat missions look like this...
--- BEGIN ---
A lone Federation Starship warps in near an apparently uninhabited world. The Captain expects trouble, but there's nothing on scanners. As the ship comes around a large asteroid, three Klingon Birds of Prey uncloak and attack.

The Captain rises from his chair and yells to his Tactical officer, "LULZ PEW PEW LAZORZ!1!"

Moments later, the lone Federation Starship has destroyed all three Klingon ships without a scratch, looted something he's going to sell for a stupid amount on the Exchange and is flying to the next waypoint.
--- END ---

Now this is patently silly. It just is. There's no defending it. Last night, in a Fleet Action, I solo'd an entire battle group of Gorn NPC ships: 4 cruisers and 2 battleships. My toon is a Lieutenant Commander in an Excalibur. I even accidentally aggro'd a second group of Gorn cruisers and battleships and managed to kill half of the cruisers before I finally died.

Here's what needs to happen, Cryptic. Before, while fights were hard, they were realistic. The problem was SCALE. Presently, the problem is BALANCE. The solution is this: Fewer Enemy Units AND Stronger Enemy Units.

There's no reason for a solo Captain finding himself in a fight against 3 enemy ships or a single enemy ship that is 2 or 3 classes better, with 3 forward firing weapons and 2 rear firing weapons and shields that we couldn't even dent. If there is more than one enemy, then both enemies must be weaker than the hero. A fight against two ships should be doable, but require the Captain to use every trick in the book to survive, but he should be able to survive, even if his ships suffers some damage in doing so.

My suggestion? Make enemies about 80% of their former strength, reduce the number of enemies encountered by 50%. So if an encounter has TWO Cruisers now, it should have ONE cruiser -OR- ONE frigate and FOUR fighters. At no point should a solo player be forced to fight a full strength battlecruiser class vessel, unless he is ALSO in a full strength battlecruiser. A single damaged battlecruiser is okay, but nothing more, because the fire power even a damaged battlecruiser can output is more than enough to take down the shields of a light cruiser in a few volleys.

Please remember that our starter ships had only TWO forward firing weapons and ONE rear firing weapon, and unless we were VERY lucky, the best weapons we were going to have were the Commons we bought from vendors, and the greens we might have gotten from quests.

Thank you for reading.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
«13

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    great post totally agree

    i have noticed some times the more in your team the crazier the fighting.
    though npcs should spawn at 2-3 lvls higher the average of the of the teams lvl
    not sure how its set up but i think its similiar

    for fun though until they fix the solo side of the house i would recomend mission frunning in full teams
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    i second this
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Was in CB and OB, and this post is dead on.

    It is so bad now, my friends and I will team up...to do missions solo. The increased number of ships from being in a team of 3 is the only way to make it even remotely challenging.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    yeah, to beat a dead horse to be even deader, i like ob combat because it was actually challenging, now its quite boring
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    /signed

    for posterity
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    There's no defending it.

    You'd be surprised. There's a lot of people who play this game who literally want the game to hand you everything. Personally, I couldn't agree your points more.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I agree and disagree. Different flavors for different folks/tastes. Some people like Fighting Quantity some like Fighting Quality. Probably should support both.
    Though, I don't disagree about the game getting insanely easy. Tier 0 and can take 2 Battleships, 2 cruisers, 4 similar craft - the Battleships will at least make it difficult to keep my shields up and it is a newbie zone where people are learning to play so its prolly about right for That area. If things are similar in others then things definately need to be tweaked more (the mission instances scale and that scaling could be harsher/better as well depending on the type of mission and the player record/journal).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I know there have been many threads about this before, but again I have to agree.

    I found the early combat difficulty nice to be honest. This newer combat is a bore 'n snore. I find that in combat I can just ignore whatever is going on and happily chat with my friends and fleet members without having to worry about every losing. Ground combat is the same as well. I walk around and pick up items and chat while my officers mop up whatever enemies are in the way.

    Before the combat change I had some awesome battles with Romulan and Hirogen ships. Not so much anymore.

    On the upside I read a dev post from Jackalope saying that they were considering adding in some difficulty sliders so we could adjust the missions to whatever we wanted. I don't have the post offhand but keep in mind it said "considering" and not "for sure". I will say though that I do want this. Down with bore 'n snore combat!

    Edit: Found the dev post: http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=1859069&postcount=150
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Man, I remember in CB having two people doing a mission together, and seeing a battleship and thinking "how can I avoid engaging that beast?"

    Now a battleship is about as hard as I expect an equal level cruiser to be.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Although they have made it harder than the Super Easy Godmode, it is still rather easy. HOWEVER, it has been quite helpful when I get a lag attack (I blame europe), it really evens out. Unless it's really bad, then there is just no chance I will live, even with the Super Easy Godmode enabled. So, I second this.... ONLY after the lag and rubberbanding has been eliminated.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Red_Satyr wrote:
    Although they have made it harder than the Super Easy Godmode, it is still rather easy. HOWEVER, it has been quite helpful when I get a lag attack (I blame europe), it really evens out. Unless it's really bad, then there is just no chance I will live, even with the Super Easy Godmode enabled. So, I second this.... ONLY after the lag and rubberbanding has been eliminated.

    They really need a Euro server. Trans-Atlantic gaming FTL.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    A lot of response to this topic, but it should be expected. The game has become laughably easy to play. Not to say that it's not a solid base, but the challenge is definitely on vacation.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010

    The Captain rises from his chair and yells to his Tactical officer, "LULZ PEW PEW LAZORZ!1!"

    I loled... i agree totally too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I felt the same way for quite a while.....then I ran into the Hirogen ships.....after starting the SB39 missions I've found the game slightly more challenging....akin to what you've been describing.....some tense moments wondering if my phasers would recharge quickly enough to drop heavy plasma torpedoes........not to mention trying to down a Scimitar with 4 people in an enemy contact scenario......

    But I do agree....I'd like to see the early game a bit more challenging

    Ya Hya Chouhada
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Snake509 wrote: »
    I felt the same way for quite a while.....then I ran into the Hirogen ships.....after starting the SB39 missions I've found the game slightly more challenging....akin to what you've been describing.....some tense moments wondering if my phasers would recharge quickly enough to drop heavy plasma torpedoes........not to mention trying to down a Scimitar with 4 people in an enemy contact scenario......

    But I do agree....I'd like to see the early game a bit more challenging

    Ya Hya Chouhada

    Huzzah! Another Dune fan! But, yes, it shouldn't take Plasma Torpedoes to make an enemy balanced.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Good post with an actual, logical suggestion instead of a vague "make it harder".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Huzzah! Another Dune fan! But, yes, it shouldn't take Plasma Torpedoes to make an enemy balanced.

    I noticed you fixed your sig...lol

    the Hirogens were tough without those damn torpedoes......how far along are you?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    This is all true. If any Star Trek captian happened upon a group 4 or god forbid 5 battle ships of any size, the captain would run or scuttle the ship or at the least scream for help.

    Please make Star Trek like STAR TREK

    1 Klingons rarely hunt alone and are always a worthy advisary but like wolves hunt in packs
    2 Romulans never enter a fight they cannot win that is simply illogical
    3 Cardassians are arogant and make foolish moves dispite equal fire power they often loose
    4 Borg have always been far superior in power and simply should not be beaten by any single ship (boarding party required)
    5 The dominion, a worthy apponent always but still only equal in power to the Federation
    6 Gorn well they are just too slow
    7 Undine Like the Dominion


    Fire at will Trolls but i too feel STO pve is out of balance
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I had a good time in one of my space missions last night. I was auto-grouped with 2 others. One warped out but stayed in the group. The other went off to do who knows what. That left me with a large group to deal with. I had to use all my cool downs and shield facing to wok the fight. I lost half my crew and one shield once. Never dropped below 90% hull though. That was the level of difficulty I felt in CB and OB. It was a lot of fun. I miss that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    This post is spot on.

    Take notes Cryptic, fewer ships, stronger ships.

    Make it so.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I'd like difficulty somewhere in between the two examples.

    But I must say, since hitting around Lt. Cmdr 6 or so, I've been having a little more trouble in my escort. Romulans are pretty tough.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    agree with this post. Please make things more challenging.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    /sign

    defenatly too easy right now.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    um...its not a picture..... (sorry counld resist)

    /signed
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    One question aside from play style how badly hurt MUST you be at the end of an encounter for you to OP to be pleased with combat?

    then when you add play style please note that some take heavy damage and others take almost no damage. small tweaks sure but tweaking like you suggest is like cutting bread with a jackhammer.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I didnt mind either difficulty, Beta or current one.
    But the ships being so weak is ridiculus, so:
    Fewer Enemy Units AND Stronger Enemy Units.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    slarus wrote: »
    One question aside from play style how badly hurt MUST you be at the end of an encounter for you to OP to be pleased with combat?

    then when you add play style please note that some take heavy damage and others take almost no damage. small tweaks sure but tweaking like you suggest is like cutting bread with a jackhammer.

    Did you play in Beta?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    "LULZ PEW PEW LAZORZ!1!"

    LOL! Who taught you to speak the fearsome "Human" language???
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Did you play in Beta?

    Both actually, while I could use an increase in difficulty, I am not ASSUMING that we NEED one.

    A difficulty slider would be nice.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    completely agree with OP!

    Ground battles are rediculously easy as well. I can walk away and come back 10 minutes later and still be alive with a full room of guys fighting me and just my away team. It is stupid and repetitive if I dont have to even try let alone be at the computer. I can just walk away on every encounter and come back with everything dead.

    GIVE ME A GAME TO PLAY NOT SOME HELLO KITTY PANSY BS! I love strategy make me think for a second on how to win an encounter.
This discussion has been closed.