Too bad they can't write the EULA in terms that YOU can understand. But I will try...
They make no guarantee with regards to whether or not you will be able to log in and play.
Therefore if you do try to say that they billied you wilthout your permission, you are committing fraud which is a felony. Have fun with that.
EULA's have no bearing on the agreement between you and your credit card issuer. And their agreement with Cryptic allows them to reverse charges if they don't live up to what they agree to on their merchant agreement.
You can almost certainly get a chargeback if you wish. I am contemplating doing the same on my lifetime sub unless things improve within 48 hours.
EULA's have no bearing on the agreement between you and your credit card issuer. And their agreement with Cryptic allows them to reverse charges if they don't live up to what they agree to on their merchant agreement.
You can almost certainly get a chargeback if you wish. I am contemplating doing the same on my lifetime sub unless things improve within 48 hours.
Considering they already stated that lifetime subs are non-refundable, this will not hold up and you will be guilty of fraud by saying they did not have permission to charge your card, which obviously, they did. You're admitting to it now and if someone thinks to pull this up when you go to court it will be an automatic guilty.
As I said.. you guys have fun with that.
Felony over a temper tantrum from a video game. Can't wait to see the judges face on that one.
Too bad they can't write the EULA in terms that YOU can understand. But I will try...
They make no guarantee with regards to whether or not you will be able to log in and play.
Therefore if you do try to say that they billied you wilthout your permission, you are committing fraud which is a felony. Have fun with that.
The ability to log in and play the game is implicit with the agreement that they are providing a service for financial gain.
Without the ability to log in, there is no way to receive the service that a player has paid for. By dint of that perspective, the failure of Cryptic Studios to provide play time service is a breech of financial contract. If this was a game that had a single-player feature and did not require a connection to Cryptic's servers to play, it'd be a different story.
Should this state of affairs continue, it very much falls under the auspices of credit card protection and is thus just cause to instigate a CC chargeback for failure to provide service if a customer so chooses. It's really quite simple in that regard.
The only sticking point would be the monthly fee, which has not been charged yet. But Atari damned sure did charge my credit card the second I pre-ordered in December, creating a binding contract of payment for service at that exact moment for the future date of the game's launch of 02 February.
EULA's have no bearing on the agreement between you and your credit card issuer. And their agreement with Cryptic allows them to reverse charges if they don't live up to what they agree to on their merchant agreement.
You can almost certainly get a chargeback if you wish. I am contemplating doing the same on my lifetime sub unless things improve within 48 hours.
Your agreement with your credit card company also states that you allow the business to resolve issues first. You have to give them the time to resolve any complaints before issuing a charge back. Which you haven't. By all means, contact Cryptic and attempt to resolve the issue honestly and in good faith. Otherwise, you are indeed committing fraud.
Nobody got a refund fron Blizzard when WoW had 45-90 minute queues. Just because you have a queue does not mean that you are unable to play. It means you have to wait in line to get in. They are still providing the service to you. So like the other guy said, "Have fun with that."
Considering they already stated that lifetime subs are non-refundable, this will not hold up and you will be guilty of fraud by saying they did not have permission to charge your card, which obviously, they did. You're admitting to it now and if someone thinks to pull this up when you go to court it will be an automatic guilty.
As I said.. you guys have fun with that.
Felony over a temper tantrum from a video game. Can't wait to see the judges face on that one.[/QUOTE
This isnt about not giving permission to charge. Its about not receiving goods or services payed for. If you are going to try and spew legal advice. Do some research.
"1. NEITHER CRYPTIC STUDIOS NOR ANY PERSON OR ENTITY INVOLVED IN CREATING, PRODUCING OR DISTRIBUTING ANY CONTENT OR SERVICES CONTAINED ON THE CRYPTIC STUDIOS SITES, NOR ANY OF THEIR RESPECTIVE DIRECTORS, OFFICERS, EMPLOYEES OR AGENTS, MAKE ANY WARRANTY WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THAT THE CRYPTIC STUDIOS SITES WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR FREE; NOR DO THEY MAKE ANY WARRANTY AS TO THE RESULTS THAT MAY BE OBTAINED FROM USE OF THE CRYPTIC STUDIOS SITES OR AS TO THE ACCURACY, RELIABILITY, QUALITY OR CONTENT OF ANY INFORMATION, SERVICE OR MERCHANDISE PROVIDED ON OR THROUGH THE CRYPTIC STUDIOS SITES, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, ALL CRYPTIC STUDIOS SITES COMMUNICATION FEATURES."
Read it well.. especially the part I underlined and highlighted.
Keep up your childish temper tantrums. You're playing with fire... and the law.
This isnt about not giving permission to charge. Its about not receiving goods or services payed for. If you are going to try and spew legal advice. Do some research.
Just because something in in a EULA does not make it legally binding, especially to the third party of a credit card company. It gives them some legal standing in disputes yes, but it isnt a bulletproof shield.
EULA's aren't binding in many places. Germany for example, I think.
The law overrules many End-User license agreements. You can't break the law just because you typed that you can.
HOWEVER - OP, no. Just no. You are overreacting. The queue is needed, you'd rather crash out? This is quite a stable release for an MMO with the Trek IP behind it...I was expecting to be unable to play....
Queue of 615 people. It's popular. Come now, this is pretty good. Give 'em some time. If you really don't like it, go away for 4 months, come back.
I bet you think that dump-truck on the expressway that spills gravel and destroys your windshield isn't liable because they have a bumper-sticker that claims "not responsible from objects coming from the road."
Just let the people who get ****es when you say you are going to get a refund stay mad, they are mad because this game is going down hill fast and they are crying. this is their only way to take their own anger out.
I feel bad for all them Hardcore supporters for a fail game. but hey maybe they will even learn that unfinished products are not what they want too.
Just because something in in a EULA does not make it legally binding, especially to the third party of a credit card company. It gives them some legal standing in disputes yes, but it isnt a bulletproof shield.
Since when was a EULA and Terms of Service not legally binding??? If it wasn't.. why would they bother making you agree to it????
Others are right, you signed a contract, and the contract states that you are not guaranteed the ability to login or play.. it would be like suing Crypic because of a server crash or a bug that cost you some loot (the possible exception being microtransaction purchases)
The unthinkable long shot is arguing that the EULA is not constitutional or legal (ie you couldn't sign a contract to become a slave) but that'd never fly. These companies have lawyers and well established president when it comes to these things.
The OP IS NOT SAYING HE DIDNT GIVE PERMISSION to charge! THERE IS NO FRAUD! I dont give a **** what the eula says. He is telling his CC he didnt receive services or goods that he was told he would get. Dont quote the EULA moron it isnt what he is disputing...
Since when was a EULA and Terms of Service not legally binding??? If it wasn't.. why would they bother making you agree to it????
Wow, some of you people are clueless..
Uhm...Well, for a start, to make people like you believe it was legally binding?
An EULA carries weight, but it's not a contract as such. It's an agreement, and if it breaks the law, it doesn't mean that the EULA writer can get away with it.
I've got nothing against STO or it's EULA, I just can't stand to see you so...wrong.
The OP IS NOT SAYING HE DIDNT GIVE PERMISSION to charge! THERE IS NO FRAUD! I dont give a **** what the eula says. He is telling his CC he didnt receive services or goods that he was told he would get. Dont quote the EULA moron it isnt what he is disputing...
Read much?
I don't care what you guys think. It's childish and moronic and I'm done with you and this thread. As a matter of fact, I hope you cancel your account and do whatever you want. I'm tired of you people trying to hold paid money against Cryptic like a bargaining chip to get everything exactly your way, the way you want it.
I don't care what you guys think. It's childish and moronic and I'm done with you and this thread. As a matter of fact, I hope you cancel your account and do whatever you want. I'm tired of you people trying to hold paid money against Cryptic like a bargaining chip to get everything exactly your way, the way you want it.
Spoiled brats. Have some patience.
Whups.
See kids, this is what happens when you all point out that someone's wrong. Ragequit's happen.
Be smart. Don't say stupid things. Avoid ragequits.
1) OP calls his credit card company, says that Cryptic charged him, but he's disputing the charge.
2) Credit Card Company sends OP some paperwork to fill out, or may just take the information over the phone.
3) Credit Card Company sends Cryptic some paperwork saying that this particular charge is being disputed.
4) Cryptic has the opportunity to dispute the dispute, or simply accept the chargeback.
Most MMOs I've dealt with will either cancel/terminate an account once it gets a chargeback, just write it off all together, or mark the chargeback funds as still owed on the account, so they need to be paid before the account can be used.
It might say all sorts of stuff in the EULA, but what it ultimately boils down to is the EULA is on shakey ground. It's not a contract to the effect of the contract you sign when renting a house. It's more like a club that the company waves threateningly at people. "Oh, you better not hack, or we can do this according to the EULA!"
See kids, this is what happens when you all point out that someone's wrong. Ragequit's happen.
Be smart. Don't say stupid things. Avoid ragequits.
But the EULA says if you get a login queue based on RND(SEED()) * 100 you can't ragequit. It's somewhere between "objects appear larger in mirrors" and "slippery when wet!"
Check your precedents about the EULA. Also, agreeing to a contract can never supersede the actual laws governing in the area where the transaction is occurring, such as, the location where the cryptic office resides.
Personally, it would be a waste of time to proceed with any serious litigation about cryptic; however, a refund is most likely possible and not an act of fraud. Contact youre banking institution to confirm the legality of canceling the contract due to failure to perform. I highly doubt there will be any negative repercussions in canceling the transaction, but always confirm before simply contacting your credit card issuer before contacting front line staff for a cancellation notice is processed.
But the EULA says if you get a login queue based on RND(SEED()) * 100 you can't ragequit. It's somewhere between "objects appear larger in mirrors" and "slippery when wet!"
Oh well. He's in trouble then, obviously he just committed Fraud.
Comments
They make no guarantee with regards to whether or not you will be able to log in and play.
Therefore if you do try to say that they billied you wilthout your permission, you are committing fraud which is a felony. Have fun with that.
How can the login queue be greater than or equal to a date?
EULA's have no bearing on the agreement between you and your credit card issuer. And their agreement with Cryptic allows them to reverse charges if they don't live up to what they agree to on their merchant agreement.
You can almost certainly get a chargeback if you wish. I am contemplating doing the same on my lifetime sub unless things improve within 48 hours.
Considering they already stated that lifetime subs are non-refundable, this will not hold up and you will be guilty of fraud by saying they did not have permission to charge your card, which obviously, they did. You're admitting to it now and if someone thinks to pull this up when you go to court it will be an automatic guilty.
As I said.. you guys have fun with that.
Felony over a temper tantrum from a video game. Can't wait to see the judges face on that one.
The ability to log in and play the game is implicit with the agreement that they are providing a service for financial gain.
Without the ability to log in, there is no way to receive the service that a player has paid for. By dint of that perspective, the failure of Cryptic Studios to provide play time service is a breech of financial contract. If this was a game that had a single-player feature and did not require a connection to Cryptic's servers to play, it'd be a different story.
Should this state of affairs continue, it very much falls under the auspices of credit card protection and is thus just cause to instigate a CC chargeback for failure to provide service if a customer so chooses. It's really quite simple in that regard.
The only sticking point would be the monthly fee, which has not been charged yet. But Atari damned sure did charge my credit card the second I pre-ordered in December, creating a binding contract of payment for service at that exact moment for the future date of the game's launch of 02 February.
Get it together, Cryptic.
Your agreement with your credit card company also states that you allow the business to resolve issues first. You have to give them the time to resolve any complaints before issuing a charge back. Which you haven't. By all means, contact Cryptic and attempt to resolve the issue honestly and in good faith. Otherwise, you are indeed committing fraud.
You, sir, are wrong. Read the EULA.
Yes, indeed. Do contact Cryptic. Their response and information flow on the forums has been an exemplary demonstration of how well they communicate.
http://www.startrekonline.com/terms_of_service
Terms of Use:
"1. NEITHER CRYPTIC STUDIOS NOR ANY PERSON OR ENTITY INVOLVED IN CREATING, PRODUCING OR DISTRIBUTING ANY CONTENT OR SERVICES CONTAINED ON THE CRYPTIC STUDIOS SITES, NOR ANY OF THEIR RESPECTIVE DIRECTORS, OFFICERS, EMPLOYEES OR AGENTS, MAKE ANY WARRANTY WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THAT THE CRYPTIC STUDIOS SITES WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR FREE; NOR DO THEY MAKE ANY WARRANTY AS TO THE RESULTS THAT MAY BE OBTAINED FROM USE OF THE CRYPTIC STUDIOS SITES OR AS TO THE ACCURACY, RELIABILITY, QUALITY OR CONTENT OF ANY INFORMATION, SERVICE OR MERCHANDISE PROVIDED ON OR THROUGH THE CRYPTIC STUDIOS SITES, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, ALL CRYPTIC STUDIOS SITES COMMUNICATION FEATURES."
Read it well.. especially the part I underlined and highlighted.
Keep up your childish temper tantrums. You're playing with fire... and the law.
There.. there's your research. Hypocrite much?
EULA's aren't binding in many places. Germany for example, I think.
The law overrules many End-User license agreements. You can't break the law just because you typed that you can.
HOWEVER - OP, no. Just no. You are overreacting. The queue is needed, you'd rather crash out? This is quite a stable release for an MMO with the Trek IP behind it...I was expecting to be unable to play....
Queue of 615 people. It's popular. Come now, this is pretty good. Give 'em some time. If you really don't like it, go away for 4 months, come back.
I bet you think that dump-truck on the expressway that spills gravel and destroys your windshield isn't liable because they have a bumper-sticker that claims "not responsible from objects coming from the road."
What's your real cryptic handle?
I feel bad for all them Hardcore supporters for a fail game. but hey maybe they will even learn that unfinished products are not what they want too.
Since when was a EULA and Terms of Service not legally binding??? If it wasn't.. why would they bother making you agree to it????
Wow, some of you people are clueless..
lulz.
Op, try directly casting that.
Also, I suspect that they didn't program in basic, but am not 100% sure.
The unthinkable long shot is arguing that the EULA is not constitutional or legal (ie you couldn't sign a contract to become a slave) but that'd never fly. These companies have lawyers and well established president when it comes to these things.
The OP IS NOT SAYING HE DIDNT GIVE PERMISSION to charge! THERE IS NO FRAUD! I dont give a **** what the eula says. He is telling his CC he didnt receive services or goods that he was told he would get. Dont quote the EULA moron it isnt what he is disputing...
Read much?
Uhm...Well, for a start, to make people like you believe it was legally binding?
An EULA carries weight, but it's not a contract as such. It's an agreement, and if it breaks the law, it doesn't mean that the EULA writer can get away with it.
I've got nothing against STO or it's EULA, I just can't stand to see you so...wrong.
EULA has nothing to do with my credit card
Credit Card Company > Cryptic
I don't care what you guys think. It's childish and moronic and I'm done with you and this thread. As a matter of fact, I hope you cancel your account and do whatever you want. I'm tired of you people trying to hold paid money against Cryptic like a bargaining chip to get everything exactly your way, the way you want it.
Spoiled brats. Have some patience.
Whups.
See kids, this is what happens when you all point out that someone's wrong. Ragequit's happen.
Be smart. Don't say stupid things. Avoid ragequits.
1) OP calls his credit card company, says that Cryptic charged him, but he's disputing the charge.
2) Credit Card Company sends OP some paperwork to fill out, or may just take the information over the phone.
3) Credit Card Company sends Cryptic some paperwork saying that this particular charge is being disputed.
4) Cryptic has the opportunity to dispute the dispute, or simply accept the chargeback.
Most MMOs I've dealt with will either cancel/terminate an account once it gets a chargeback, just write it off all together, or mark the chargeback funds as still owed on the account, so they need to be paid before the account can be used.
It might say all sorts of stuff in the EULA, but what it ultimately boils down to is the EULA is on shakey ground. It's not a contract to the effect of the contract you sign when renting a house. It's more like a club that the company waves threateningly at people. "Oh, you better not hack, or we can do this according to the EULA!"
But the EULA says if you get a login queue based on RND(SEED()) * 100 you can't ragequit. It's somewhere between "objects appear larger in mirrors" and "slippery when wet!"
Personally, it would be a waste of time to proceed with any serious litigation about cryptic; however, a refund is most likely possible and not an act of fraud. Contact youre banking institution to confirm the legality of canceling the contract due to failure to perform. I highly doubt there will be any negative repercussions in canceling the transaction, but always confirm before simply contacting your credit card issuer before contacting front line staff for a cancellation notice is processed.
Oh well. He's in trouble then, obviously he just committed Fraud.