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Odd feeling of morn over casuallties while playing STO

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I have played many MMORPG killed many monsters and played PVP MMORPG and won and lost many battles. STO is the first time I actually thought of the casualties. My ship has 200 crew and many times I am down to 25% or lost ship altogether, or blown up another ship with 100s of crew. It feels very sobering, unlike most games where you only are killing the one trying to kill you, in STO you are killling many people that you would never see.

In open beta someone stated they wanted to see the people flying out into space on hull breaches, thankfully that would never be but in.

While this is just a game and the thoughts quickly pass, it makes me think about RL bomber pilots and captains of naval ships and some of the guilt they must live with.

On a lighter note, when my personnel replentish, where do the come from, Is there a party I am not aware of?
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I have played many MMORPG killed many monsters and played PVP MMORPG and won and lost many battles. STO is the first time I actually thought of the casualties. My ship has 200 crew and many times I am down to 25% or lost ship altogether, or blown up another ship with 100s of crew. It feels very sobering, unlike most games where you only are killing the one trying to kill you, in STO you are killling many people that you would never see.

    In open beta someone stated they wanted to see the people flying out into space on hull breaches, thankfully that would never be but in.

    While this is just a game and the thoughts quickly pass, it makes me think about RL bomber pilots and captains of naval ships and some of the guilt they must live with.

    On a lighter note, when my personnel replentish, where do the come from, Is there a party I am not aware of?

    Just imagine you're on a holodeck training program.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Kirkfat wrote: »
    Just imagine you're on a holodeck training program.

    Ah.. much better.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Kirkfat wrote: »
    Just imagine you're on a holodeck training program.
    I'll just remember this is a game, thanks :) imagining playing a game within a game is far too much for my little mind.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Odd feeling of morn over casuallties while playing STO

    Morn?


    (This message is too short by 10 characters.)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I read a review that touched on this exact topic.

    In the shows, the loss of a ship was always a last resort. Even attacking another ship was always the last option. There was always that feeling of reverence toward the other ships captain and crew, and the loss of life that destroying a ship represents.

    Which is part of why i'm torn over the gameplay of STO. Dont get me wrong, i'm thoroughly enjoying this game. It just seems like theres a ton of combat, and not enough plot/puzzle solving.

    Now, thats not to say i think the game needs to be changed. A lot of todays mmo players would leave if there were not as much action as there is. They'd rather blow stuff up, than problem solve.

    Personally, i'd like to see a lot more problem solving, research, and exploration missions, but i completely understand why Cryptic has designed the game the way they have.

    At any rate, i guess i'm saying, Yes, i agree, you get a very somber feeling when you see that bird of prey blow up in front of you, or see your litle people graph drop.

    I too am curious where the people come back from. Ha! After a big battle, are 75% of my crew newborns? :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I was on the USS Lexington before it was made a museum. Boot camp naval pilots made their very first landing on a moving aircraft carrier at sea on this heap. It was in both world wars. We were nothing short of a flying dartboard. The few years I was there many lives were lost. Google it's history. It was a death ship and all aboard knew it.

    Does this game even have a death penalty?

    Does anyone even care about lost crew?

    I do~!

    I understand this is just a game.... but ... C'Mon MAN !!

    Anyone with any care or compassion cares about the crew! ... Except.. Apparently... Star Trek Captains?

    Death Hurts and people and players are not stupid. Even if they have never had this experience... or God Forbid... anything similar...this is a mature MMO and I would like to think people care about their crew... even if they are just little icons.

    C'Mon Man! ... Zerg your own TRIBBLE! ... No loss = No Gain! No Risk = No Reward! Simple Gameplay Truth! True Life!

    Implement a severe death penalty! .. Nobody goes to a casino and bets a penny. If you want players to get anything at all from this game, you'll mirror life or the game means nothing.

    What would Janeway do? .. Respawn...? ... Sacrifice ship and crew.. over and over and over?

    If thats's how you wanna play it I dont think you'll have many players because the experience means nothing w/o loss.


    I
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    With regards to respawning, just pretend you're in a time loop like the Enterprise D in 'cause and effect'.

    With regards to other ships blowing up, Cryptic could always add personel pod escaping just prior to explosion.

    Vukhufu wrote:
    I was on the USS Lexington before it was made a museum. Boot camp naval pilots made their very first landing on a moving aircraft carrier at sea on this heap. It was in both world wars. We were nothing short of a flying dartboard. The few years I was there many lives were lost. Google it's history. It was a death ship and all aboard knew it.

    Does this game even have a death penalty?

    Does anyone even care about lost crew?

    I do~!

    I understand this is just a game.... but ... C'Mon MAN !!

    Anyone with any care or compassion cares about the crew! ... Except.. Apparently... Star Trek Captains?

    Death Hurts and people and players are not stupid. Even if they have never had this experience... or God Forbid... anything similar...this is a mature MMO and I would like to think people care about their crew... even if they are just little icons.

    C'Mon Man! ... Zerg your own TRIBBLE! ... No loss = No Gain! No Risk = No Reward! Simple Gameplay Truth! True Life!

    Implement a severe death penalty! .. Nobody goes to a casino and bets a penny. If you want players to get anything at all from this game, you'll mirror life or the game means nothing.

    What would Janeway do? .. Respawn...? ... Sacrifice ship and crew.. over and over and over?

    If thats's how you wanna play it I dont think you'll have many players because the experience means nothing w/o loss.


    I
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    It was me that stated that.

    I still believe we need to see the hull breach's, flickering forcefields etc, and crew flying out into space.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Sorry but the title led me to believe that you were feeling "Morn" whenever people died. I assumed this ment you had the desire to sit at the same bar for the rest of your life and never say a word. My mistake.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Kitsunami wrote: »
    It was me that stated that.

    I still believe we need to see the hull breach's, flickering forcefields etc, and crew flying out into space.
    Please no on people flying out into space. It definitely would put the game into the MA rating category

    I personally would like them to drop "people" all together and may is simple "life support" percentage, when life support is low, repairs are slower.

    When I picked the name "RedShirtedExtra" it was because I identify with the extas, the guys that make things happen in the background without credit. Seeing them replaced without even as much as stopping at a space station.

    IMHO the ship death penalty in STO would be restart at nearest (or selected) starbase. As it stand now it take longer to recover from defeat than an almost defeat. I pulled out of a battle with 1% hull integrity, it took longer to get to full health, than 15 seconds it would have taken to respawn.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I have played many MMORPG killed many monsters and played PVP MMORPG and won and lost many battles. STO is the first time I actually thought of the casualties. My ship has 200 crew and many times I am down to 25% or lost ship altogether, or blown up another ship with 100s of crew. It feels very sobering, unlike most games where you only are killing the one trying to kill you, in STO you are killling many people that you would never see.


    This game is set in the mirror universe, we are the bad guys.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    in PotBS you actually see your crew hit by cannon balls and blown overboard. It was actually kinda cool to see.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Its supposed to be crew, that makes the most sense.

    I would like to see escape pods, or to see us respawn at a starbase which makes more sense....

    But we wont get that.

    As it is, the crew is particularly stupid as it does little to nothing and regenerates ridiculously fast, its just to give the impression we have a death penalty.

    And it wouldn't give this game a MA rating...its just star trek. People die all the time, the current hull damage just looks like the ships burned, it still needs hull breach's shown at least, holes in the ship =/

    Life support wouldnt make any sense, as it would require power therefor be tied up to Aux. Plus if life support was low, you wouldn't be flying the ship. At all.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Delazure wrote: »
    This game is set in the mirror universe, we are the bad guys.
    I can't wait to put the gold sash on my liberated borg flying around in a Connie!

    Which pre-order came with an agony booth? :eek:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I have played many MMORPG killed many monsters and played PVP MMORPG and won and lost many battles. STO is the first time I actually thought of the casualties. My ship has 200 crew and many times I am down to 25% or lost ship altogether, or blown up another ship with 100s of crew. It feels very sobering, unlike most games where you only are killing the one trying to kill you, in STO you are killling many people that you would never see.

    In open beta someone stated they wanted to see the people flying out into space on hull breaches, thankfully that would never be but in.

    While this is just a game and the thoughts quickly pass, it makes me think about RL bomber pilots and captains of naval ships and some of the guilt they must live with.

    On a lighter note, when my personnel replentish, where do the come from, Is there a party I am not aware of?


    ROFL, all of this coming from a dude with the name "RedShirtedExtra"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Atleast in this game you can't see the crew flug overboard like PotBS. The little buggers would get blown off deck and float around for a few mins waiting for pickup that might never come.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Maybe the entire crew is Photonic, and the reason they respawn so fast is because outside of combat their holographic buddies and your engineering BOffs can get the systems effected back online and they can just pick up where they left off. The only real people manning your ships are you, your BOffs, and those four security people you can take to the surface with you. What? Did you think Starfleet would seriously leave a ship in the hands of an Ensign if it wasn't expendable? Refitting a Maranda with holoemitters and putting in a skeleton crew to run the bridge would be easier than getting together a full crew and a trained captain with combat experience.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    It is taking every last ounce of mental energy I have to suspend disbelief in this game...

    Isn't it fabulously interesting that in STO we feel bad about killing but in other MMOs we do not, ever.
    Supposedly it's easier to kill when you never see the face of your enemy and you're just shooting at a ship or lobbing shells dozens of miles away. Supposedly, it's a lot harder to deal with killing when it's face to face and you can see the individual whose life you just ended.

    Yet in fact, space combat can get a little depressing...
    ...especially when the starship captain in all of us is screaming for a diplomatic solution.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Steelabjur wrote: »
    Maybe the entire crew is Photonic, and the reason they respawn so fast is because outside of combat their holographic buddies and your engineering BOffs can get the systems effected back online and they can just pick up where they left off. The only real people manning your ships are you, your BOffs, and those four security people you can take to the surface with you. What? Did you think Starfleet would seriously leave a ship in the hands of an Ensign if it wasn't expendable? Refitting a Maranda with holoemitters and putting in a skeleton crew to run the bridge would be easier than getting together a full crew and a trained captain with combat experience.
    I like that explanation. Doesn't fit with the explanation how the player becomes captain though. Would however explain why a single captain could have 8 ships at their disposal. If ships could easily be built and expendable and how the crew comes back so quickly. Very possible there is mixture of each.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I just interpret it as injured crew and the number of crew list is those that are active and fit for duty. It makes more sense to me because they regenerate over time even without going to a starbase to get more. I know they are not reproducing and making new crew; so, it must be the doctor who is healing the crew and returning them to active duty.

    Besides, this is Star Trek and death really doesnt exist as most people who die come back anyway in one way or another.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I want a mini-game based off this. After your ship explodes or somebody dies on your crew, you have to go to Earth Space dock and track down all of their family members and apologize.

    At that point you have to use diplomacy to not get obliterated by the phaser wielding grandmother.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Most of the crew on ships are holograms which is why your crew can regen.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Too much tree hugging hippy nerds in here, I gots to go!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    well for the crew count, I pretty much take that as injured crew since they all come back eventually. And in my own opinion I'd say the crew count moves too much anyway, even just for injuries. So just take a percentage of missing crew and call them temporarily injured and that solves that.

    And as for explainations of respawning, I'd glad they dont do anything like showing escape pods, or some crazy time anomalies. Anything done to explain all the ship destructions would only make the whole thing unbelievable and kinda silly. You own ship being destroyed is just a game mechanic for the players to deal with. In the actual world of the game and from the point of view of any game character, it never happens.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Nobody has it as bad as I do.

    First day of the game on a ground mission, one of my bridge officers got stunned and exposed- and then prompty disintegrated by an NPC.

    It disappeared from my group, everything. Gone. Poof. No respawn either.

    Pretty sure that's a bug, but my advice is simple- don't let your bridge guys get exposed. It sucks.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    actually, it appears your ship never gets destroyed, just wrecked. when you blow up, your hull is still there in one piece. So its like the engineers worked some magic and your ship became fine again, with a lil less crew
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    actually, it appears your ship never gets destroyed, just wrecked. when you blow up, your hull is still there in one piece. So its like the engineers worked some magic and your ship became fine again, with a lil less crew

    Thats not magic, thats some African Black voodoo right there.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I have played many MMORPG killed many monsters and played PVP MMORPG and won and lost many battles. STO is the first time I actually thought of the casualties. My ship has 200 crew and many times I am down to 25% or lost ship altogether, or blown up another ship with 100s of crew. It feels very sobering, unlike most games where you only are killing the one trying to kill you, in STO you are killling many people that you would never see.

    In open beta someone stated they wanted to see the people flying out into space on hull breaches, thankfully that would never be but in.

    While this is just a game and the thoughts quickly pass, it makes me think about RL bomber pilots and captains of naval ships and some of the guilt they must live with.

    On a lighter note, when my personnel replentish, where do the come from, Is there a party I am not aware of?

    Yep im gutted when i mow down tens of thousands of zombies in Left4Dead2 :P
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