test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Cruisers useless?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I was reading during the beta that cruisers are essentially useless while leveling up compared to escorts and science vessels. There was a fairly lengthy post that explained how a science ship can tank well enough and still have all use all of its unique skills while cruisers only gained 1 additional weapon slot. Escorts pack a lot more punch and when fitted properly can "tank" well enough.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
«13

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    My cruiser works just fine for leveling, but i do have to do some 5,000,000 point turns to get in to space dock.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Tsvaox wrote:
    I was reading during the beta that cruisers are essentially useless while leveling up compared to escorts and science vessels. There was a fairly lengthy post that explained how a science ship can tank well enough and still have all use all of its unique skills while cruisers only gained 1 additional weapon slot. Escorts pack a lot more punch and when fitted properly can "tank" well enough.

    That was before they nerfed Science vessels at the end of Open Beta. Also, Escorts are very easy to take apart. Fly one and you'll know, they're glass cannons.

    Cruisers useless? Absolutely not. They still have more health, more shielding and more power for what they run.

    EDIT: I just remembered, on the last day of Open Beta, I tanked a Scimitar-class Battleship in the Alpha Centauri Secure mission, by myself, in a Tier 3 cruiser, for four and a half minutes. I know this, because that's how long it took for the zone to reset when I first engaged it, and nobody came to help me until after the zone reset.

    I still had 90% health when reinforcements arrived.

    I guarantee you, no science vessel or cruiser will be doing that at Tier 3.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Cruisers are the only thing feds can use in PVP and not die 60 times. But you will still die 40 times. lol
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Cruisers useless? No. Just no. If I didn't have a fleet mate supporting me with his cruiser I wouldn't last 5 seconds to do the wonderful damage I'm supposed to in my escort. Each ship class has its role and all are very useful. Take a few hours to actually play this game and you'll see what I mean.

    Cruisers = Heavy support
    Escorts = Heavy Damage
    Science = Heavy debuff/buffs.

    All this will vary depending on the type of captain piloting of course.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I've been around with the cruisers and my teammates are always happy to see me around so they can do what they do best in their escorts and science ships.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    My T3 cruiser at the end of open beta was running with 7k shields / 21k hull and could run 6 beam arrays without losing any power. Useless? I think not.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Cruisers have additional power reserves, which helps when firing all those weapons. Some of the most consistent high scoring players I've PVP'd with love their cruisers. The Klingons clamored for a tier 2 cruiser and Cryptic responded, certainly it must be of some use, or else why would that happen? Each ship suits a different kind of play style, and each captain does as well. The combinations between them add diversity to the game, so not every ship will appeal to every player.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    That is partially true. Cruiser are serious tanker when it comes to fleet action. Science ship can be great tank BUT most of the skills are single target while Cruiser ships have skills that absorbs hits to recharge their shields. Remember, each ships have their own strong and weak points. Cruiser tanks long numbers of enemy ships, science makes a target or a specific number of ships weaker, and escort is for dealing damage.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I hit tier 2 in beta and had both a cruiser and an escort. I really liked the cruiser because I like using phasers with their wide firing arc. But I lovvvvvvvvvvvvvvvved the escorts maneuverability and how fast they could drop kling ships in pvp. Plus watching youtube videos of the defiant in action kinda makes me wanna go escort.

    Would an escort ship with an engineering officer have at least decent survivability?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Tsvaox wrote:
    I hit tier 2 in beta and had both a cruiser and an escort. I really liked the cruiser because I like using phasers with their wide firing arc. But I lovvvvvvvvvvvvvvvved the escorts maneuverability and how fast they could drop kling ships in pvp. Plus watching youtube videos of the defiant in action kinda makes me wanna go escort.

    Would an escort ship with an engineering officer have at least decent survivability?

    Not really. They're faster and more maneuverable because you're supposed to get in and out quickly, not take hits.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    how offensive can you make a cruiser?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Tsvaox wrote:
    how offensive can you make a cruiser?

    I guess if your fleet logo is a swatika, or its named something to the effect of USS Grandmaster or something along those lines will make it pretty offensive.....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Not very, they screen the text for foul language so you'd have to keep it polite.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I guess if your fleet logo is a swatika, or its named something to the effect of USS Grandmaster or something along those lines will make it pretty offensive.....

    How about "Happy Hitler"?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Tsvaox wrote:
    how offensive can you make a cruiser?

    Cruisers have awesome sustained dps, compared to escorts which are designed for burst dps. A cruiser played correctly can outlast and kill multiple ships, even in PVP.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    A noob question, but I'm not going to get to play for a bit: how much does your officer type dictate what ship type you can/should use? Would a science officer do well with a cruiser, or even an escort, or do the skills just not match up?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Science ships took a 10% nerf to shields and hull at the end of OP, they are still the premier shield tanks as they still have 10% more shielding than any other class and can actually turn offering much better regen rates and survivability than a comparable cruiser.

    Cruisers were intended to hull tank.... it doesn't work as torps are far to strong for anything to really hull tank.
    At T2 and 3 its not as big a deal, but once you hit T4 and have to endure the Galaxy classes abysmal turning rate of 5... and you can no longer turn to use your torps, you can't turn your ship to offer up a stronger shield so that the other sides can recharge... than its a different story.

    The T2 Cruiser is utter garbage as anything it can do the Science Vessel can do better.
    T3 seems to be a fairly strong point in the game for the Cruiser, but still struggles with the incoming damage.
    T4 is by far the worst of it Cruiser wise as the Galaxy is so slow, takes a full 61 seconds to complete a 360 degree turn, that it becomes a complete and utter chore to play.
    You slow your teammates down, your loot despawns, you accidently aggro additional groups due to your massive turn radius, and you are unable to quickly respond to situations that would require you to actually play the game.

    Can't speak for T5 as I haven't been there yet, but I have heard similar stories.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    im not 100% on what skills science officers get for player characters, but an Engineer skill "rotate shield frequency" will help with any class of ship. Same with the Tactical damage / crit buff ability. Its all in how you like to play your character I suppose.

    Verkruk - you should probably L2Play then. by varying your power levels and speed you can get a very decent turn rate even in a Galaxy class. cruisers are very micro-management oriented.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    EDIT: I just remembered, on the last day of Open Beta, I tanked a Scimitar-class Battleship in the Alpha Centauri Secure mission, by myself, in a Tier 3 cruiser, for four and a half minutes. I know this, because that's how long it took for the zone to reset when I first engaged it, and nobody came to help me until after the zone reset.

    I still had 90% health when reinforcements arrived.

    I guarantee you, no science vessel or cruiser will be doing that at Tier 3.

    No. After four and a half minutes the Escort and Science vessels would have destroyed it on their own and moved on. You don't have to tank if you can take away their weapons, hold them in place and pound the hell out them.

    :cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    T4 does not take 61 seconds to turn...

    I have no idea who gimped, purposely, the t4 cruiser to take over a minute to do 360 degree turning but...

    I hit RA5 in OB. Cruiser. Holy heck.. I never ever ever had the issues people speak of. I could take on 6 BoP's and do just fine in PVE. Sure, pve is easy, but as for taking on damage, the 6 BoP's all launching torpedo volleys at 45 is alot of incoming damage. I had no issues. At all.

    Also, I am betting with the extra 3 engineer BO skills that i get, and since they are the higher better ones, I could do just fine.

    Oh..

    and debuffing about 50% of the the dmg the enemy does.. neato.


    Seriously.. cruisers got more going for them than they are given credit for.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    A noob question, but I'm not going to get to play for a bit: how much does your officer type dictate what ship type you can/should use? Would a science officer do well with a cruiser, or even an escort, or do the skills just not match up?

    Imho your officer type is more important for ground combat.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I liked my T2 cruiser... I didn't get any higher than that. Its all playstyle realy... do you want to tank or not? When I was in my cruiser nothing could kill me outside of PvP. This can be debated up and down and all around but the fact is you have to ask yourself what role you want to play. If you're worried about turn rates and such then buy the better impulse engines. Also a MUST when flying a cruiser. Drop your speed down to half or 1/4 impulse and you'll find your turn rates increase a ton. Its all about tactics. Also I fit my cruiser with two torps one on the back and front... dosn't matter what side they're facing you get to unleash fair ammount of dmg. Funny thing is I outdamaged an escort (a few of them) in pvp (and all the klingons) by pouring my energy into weps and using the right skills at the right moment.

    There is a tactic for all ships in the game... find a ship you like and go with it. Remember the bigger you are the slower you need to be moving to be manuverable.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Blackavaar wrote: »
    No. After four and a half minutes the Escort and Science vessels would have destroyed it on their own and moved on. You don't have to tank if you can take away their weapons, hold them in place and pound the hell out them.

    :cool:

    Really? Because I've played with some T3 Science vessels and Escorts, and they always got their asses kicked by the Scimitar.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Karenthis wrote: »
    Cruisers useless? No. Just no. If I didn't have a fleet mate supporting me with his cruiser I wouldn't last 5 seconds to do the wonderful damage I'm supposed to in my escort. Each ship class has its role and all are very useful. Take a few hours to actually play this game and you'll see what I mean.

    Now if only they could keep the server up for a few hours at a time...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Windhunter wrote: »
    im not 100% on what skills science officers get for player characters, but an Engineer skill "rotate shield frequency" will help with any class of ship. Same with the Tactical damage / crit buff ability. Its all in how you like to play your character I suppose.

    Verkruk - you should probably L2Play then. by varying your power levels and speed you can get a very decent turn rate even in a Galaxy class. cruisers are very micro-management oriented.

    Haha!! L2Play?! Are you freaking kidding me?

    You do realize that Auxiliary and any turn rate boosting consoles are an increase in percentage of your base turn rate right? And what is 15% of 5? 20% of 5?
    You remember that whole 40% of 0 is still 0 rampage on the WoW forums?

    Or are you actually suggesting that I run a primary Aux build in PvE and PvP?
    Am I supposed to sacrifice Shield regen ontop of the fact that I can't turn fast enough to allow them to regen in the first place?
    Or that I should sacrifice Weapon power and be incapable of taking anything out much less actually grabbing and keeping aggro from my "glass" cannon counterparts?

    And micro-manage? Micro-Manage what? This game is so simple and easy to play that I was still capable of not paying attention prior to the EZ-mode patch, you know the one where people were complaining about getting Alpha'd off the map within seconds after loading in. Or taking 6 torps from a single BoP, and then stacking that.

    I never once died from an Alpha and have yet to die from an Alpha.
    So... your L2Play, back at ya.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    kuggy wrote:
    T4 does not take 61 seconds to turn...

    I have no idea who gimped, purposely, the t4 cruiser to take over a minute to do 360 degree turning but...

    I hit RA5 in OB. Cruiser. Holy heck.. I never ever ever had the issues people speak of. I could take on 6 BoP's and do just fine in PVE. Sure, pve is easy, but as for taking on damage, the 6 BoP's all launching torpedo volleys at 45 is alot of incoming damage. I had no issues. At all.

    Also, I am betting with the extra 3 engineer BO skills that i get, and since they are the higher better ones, I could do just fine.

    Oh..

    and debuffing about 50% of the the dmg the enemy does.. neato.


    Seriously.. cruisers got more going for them than they are given credit for.

    6 BoPs is cake in a Galaxy.
    Damage wise we are fine. Could use a beam lift to 4 before the power drain but meh.

    Its the turning rate that really kills it as it is no fun and actually becomes detrimental to the game play and any group play as they are constantly waiting for you.

    And yes it does take 61 seconds to complete a full 360 degree turn, several of us timed it.
    The numbers we consistently came up with were 62 and 61.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Thanks for the replies I am leaning toward cruiser again. I usually like too play classes that have a berserker type playstyle. Good damage and good survivability but damage isn't as high as a glass cannon and can't take as much punishment as a true tank.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Really? Because I've played with some T3 Science vessels and Escorts, and they always got their asses kicked by the Scimitar.

    They were unskilled. With the right build any ship can be deadly.

    :cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Verkruk wrote: »
    Haha!! L2Play?! Are you freaking kidding me?

    You do realize that Auxiliary and any turn rate boosting consoles are an increase in percentage of your base turn rate right? And what is 15% of 5? 20% of 5?
    You remember that whole 40% of 0 is still 0 rampage on the WoW forums?

    Or are you actually suggesting that I run a primary Aux build in PvE and PvP?
    Am I supposed to sacrifice Shield regen ontop of the fact that I can't turn fast enough to allow them to regen in the first place?
    Or that I should sacrifice Weapon power and be incapable of taking anything out much less actually grabbing and keeping aggro from my "glass" cannon counterparts?

    And micro-manage? Micro-Manage what? This game is so simple and easy to play that I was still capable of not paying attention prior to the EZ-mode patch, you know the one where people were complaining about getting Alpha'd off the map within seconds after loading in. Or taking 6 torps from a single BoP, and then stacking that.

    I never once died from an Alpha and have yet to die from an Alpha.
    So... your L2Play, back at ya.

    I found 2 aux engineer consoles was enough to boost my aux to 60 while in weapon power mode. That was enough to keep turning acceptable. Aux seems to give much greater turn rate increases than trying to add % to a low base number. Plus, i think the turning engineer consoles were broke.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Verkruk wrote: »
    6 BoPs is cake in a Galaxy.
    Damage wise we are fine. Could use a beam lift to 4 before the power drain but meh.

    Its the turning rate that really kills it as it is no fun and actually becomes detrimental to the game play and any group play as they are constantly waiting for you.

    And yes it does take 61 seconds to complete a full 360 degree turn, several of us timed it.
    The numbers we consistently came up with were 62 and 61.


    Were you still using that engine with +5 to shields, engine, and aux power settings? Or were you in the upgraded engines? I am just asking.
This discussion has been closed.