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Neutral Zone, Kobayashi Maru, and Head Start not beta ,but servers down

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I am 36 and grew up with Star Trek. In playing the game we are getting missions where we are told by STARFLEET to go into the Neutral Zone. When we go to the Neutral Zone this is clearly the Klingon Neutral Zone where Naomi Wildman is located. When we plot the course no crew member comes up and says sir that course will take us into the Neutral Zone. When we arrive no statement that we have crossed into the Neutral Zone.
When we are traveling thru sector space often times we are grabbed and dragged into the Deep Space battles. Instead of being prompted to talk to the enemy signal contact. Yet when we are in the Neutral Zone we aren't really dragged into battles unless they are Deep Space signal contacts. When you cross the Neutral Zone there should be some kind of warning and there should be a random chance to be dragged into a battle.
I made a post about this a few days prior. I know another player made a post about this issue in Beta. I have heard the arguments that we are at war with the Klingons. Well fine then take out the storyline go to the neutral zone. Or take the steps necessary to have NPC's state we are crossing the neutral zone or that course will take us in the neutral zone.
That being said we are immediately starting off as an ensign. WHY is there not a Kobayashi Maru scenario. The Borg start off scenario could easily have something involvved in it that puts you thru the Kobayashi Maru. It is literally a right of passage.
Finally we no longer are in open beta or closed beta. So what is the excuse of the server going down now. There was a developer post which stated once we were out of Beta that we could expect a more stable game state yet that is not happening.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    shadowgate wrote: »
    I am 36 and grew up with Star Trek. In playing the game we are getting missions where we are told by STARFLEET to go into the Neutral Zone. When we go to the Neutral Zone this is clearly the Klingon Neutral Zone where Naomi Wildman is located. When we plot the course no crew member comes up and says sir that course will take us into the Neutral Zone. When we arrive no statement that we have crossed into the Neutral Zone.
    When we are traveling thru sector space often times we are grabbed and dragged into the Deep Space battles. Instead of being prompted to talk to the enemy signal contact. Yet when we are in the Neutral Zone we aren't really dragged into battles unless they are Deep Space signal contacts. When you cross the Neutral Zone there should be some kind of warning and there should be a random chance to be dragged into a battle.
    I made a post about this a few days prior. I know another player made a post about this issue in Beta. I have heard the arguments that we are at war with the Klingons. Well fine then take out the storyline go to the neutral zone. Or take the steps necessary to have NPC's state we are crossing the neutral zone or that course will take us in the neutral zone.
    That being said we are immediately starting off as an ensign. WHY is there not a Kobayashi Maru scenario. The Borg start off scenario could easily have something involvved in it that puts you thru the Kobayashi Maru. It is literally a right of passage.
    Finally we no longer are in open beta or closed beta. So what is the excuse of the server going down now. There was a developer post which stated once we were out of Beta that we could expect a more stable game state yet that is not happening.


    You must be new here. MMO servers crash from time to time. As problems are identified they fix and increase server stability. As far as the Maru thing they chose to have a borg attack for the tutorial. You're already a commisioned officer so why would you be doing an academy test? Besides does a no-win scenario sounds like a good tutorial?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    You must be new here. MMO servers crash from time to time. As problems are identified they fix and increase server stability. As far as the Maru thing they chose to have a borg attack for the tutorial. You're already a commisioned officer so why would you be doing an academy test? Besides does a no-win scenario sounds like a good tutorial?

    Nope I am not new here. I have been around since the first day of Open Beta. I am aware of servers going down and crashing. However if they didn't have the game stable enough then they should have been clear with the people who talk to us. They should have stated to the Devs don't commit to our server being more stable once open beta is over. They made the statement I didn't and I am simply calling them on it. A no win scenario if that was the intent of it then no I wouldn't agree with it. It is more so a test of character. It should in someway shape or form be incorporated into the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    shadowgate wrote: »
    Nope I am not new here. I have been around since the first day of Open Beta. I am aware of servers going down and crashing. However if they didn't have the game stable enough then they should have been clear with the people who talk to us. They should have stated to the Devs don't commit to our server being more stable once open beta is over. They made the statement I didn't and I am simply calling them on it. A no win scenario if that was the intent of it then no I wouldn't agree with it. It is more so a test of character. It should in someway shape or form be incorporated into the game.

    I was going to write a very involved post about how things work in MMO's and such but why bother.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    shadowgate wrote: »
    WHY is there not a Kobayashi Maru scenario. The Borg start off scenario could easily have something involvved in it that puts you thru the Kobayashi Maru. It is literally a right of passage.

    Well, the Kobayashi Maru is no longer a single test. It's since become custom tailored to an individual's psychological profile. To have the Kobayashi Maru in STO would effectively envelop designing a whole new mission every time someone makes a new character. Also, you start the game off as an Ensign. This means that you've already completed your Kobayashi Maru. So just calm down and make something up for your character's backstory. This isn't Starfleet Academy Online afterall.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I was going to write a very involved post about how things work in MMO's and such but why bother.

    Please :) feel free as our servers are still down and we appear to have plenty of time :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    shadowgate wrote: »
    Please :) feel free as our servers are still down and we appear to have plenty of time :)

    It would be akin to arguing with a wall. I'll pass.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    shadowgate wrote: »
    I am 36 and grew up with Star Trek. In playing the game we are getting missions where we are told by STARFLEET to go into the Neutral Zone. When we go to the Neutral Zone this is clearly the Klingon Neutral Zone where Naomi Wildman is located. When we plot the course no crew member comes up and says sir that course will take us into the Neutral Zone. When we arrive no statement that we have crossed into the Neutral Zone.
    When we are traveling thru sector space often times we are grabbed and dragged into the Deep Space battles. Instead of being prompted to talk to the enemy signal contact. Yet when we are in the Neutral Zone we aren't really dragged into battles unless they are Deep Space signal contacts. When you cross the Neutral Zone there should be some kind of warning and there should be a random chance to be dragged into a battle.
    I made a post about this a few days prior. I know another player made a post about this issue in Beta. I have heard the arguments that we are at war with the Klingons. Well fine then take out the storyline go to the neutral zone. Or take the steps necessary to have NPC's state we are crossing the neutral zone or that course will take us in the neutral zone.
    That being said we are immediately starting off as an ensign. WHY is there not a Kobayashi Maru scenario. The Borg start off scenario could easily have something involvved in it that puts you thru the Kobayashi Maru. It is literally a right of passage.
    Finally we no longer are in open beta or closed beta. So what is the excuse of the server going down now. There was a developer post which stated once we were out of Beta that we could expect a more stable game state yet that is not happening.

    The Kobayashi Maru is taught at Starfleet Academy, you start off as a commissioned officer, so you have already gone through this test.

    Honestly, while i know it could be interresting to do it, can't you see that as there is actually no risk in dying, the no-win scenario doesn't apply in an online computer game so taking the test in-game would be a bit laughable.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I agree that the neutral zone has been pretty much ignored by the game. I wish they'd done that a bit better. In fact the whole war seems pretty poorly made; how is there still a front line when so many klingon ships are practically right on top of Earth? But I suppose gameplay must come first, and you can't have a beginner's zone without something for them to kill...


    Regarding the Kobayashi Maru... if they had you coming out of the academy and then being handed command of a starship... that's a bit silly isn't it? The way they've done it implies you've served enough time on the ship to actually be one of the 'senior' ensigns (since you are considered to be the highest ranked officers). An ensign with a few years under their belt being able to command a starship is far more reasonable to me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    shadowgate wrote: »
    I made a post about this a few days prior. I know another player made a post about this issue in Beta. I have heard the arguments that we are at war with the Klingons. Well fine then take out the storyline go to the neutral zone. Or take the steps necessary to have NPC's state we are crossing the neutral zone or that course will take us in the neutral zone.

    If there are missions referencing a Klingon Neutral Zone then I agree 100% those missions need to have that corrected. There hasn't been a Klingon Neutral Zone since the Khitomer Accords and even if there were, the very definition of what a Neutral Zone is would be contrary to how it was being used.
    That being said we are immediately starting off as an ensign. WHY is there not a Kobayashi Maru scenario. The Borg start off scenario could easily have something involvved in it that puts you thru the Kobayashi Maru. It is literally a right of passage.

    The Kobayashi Maru simulation was for cadets seeking the command path. When you start the game you're an Ensign and a bridge officer, meaning you've already passed all tests designed to test your command abilities. You were already in a position in which you could take command of the ship if your seniors were incapacitated, and that's exactly what ends up happening.
    Finally we no longer are in open beta or closed beta. So what is the excuse of the server going down now. There was a developer post which stated once we were out of Beta that we could expect a more stable game state yet that is not happening.

    One down time does not denote a pattern, and only a pattern would denote whether or not the environment is generally more stable.

    Besides, I'd imagine what the developer meant was that they wouldn't be taking down the server intentionally at odd hours to apply patches. They would only intentionally take it down during planned maintenance periods. This would reside outside of that since it's safe to say this wasn't planned or intentional.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Why does everyone want to do the kobayashi maru test? You are not going to be allowed to hack it like Kirk, so you're stuck with a simulation where you answer a distress call. Get attacked by...5 klingon birds of prey? and get your butt trounced so thoroughly that you'll learn quickly the humility of defeat.

    It is a test designed to MAKE YOU LOSE and not in the gentle way, but the OH GOD I GOT MY BUTT POKED way.
    That does not make for fun gameplay.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    There is a Kobayashi Maru scenario. it's called the forums here friend. After all the forums are in fact a no-win scenario. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I think you took the phrase "you must be new here" too literally, I think he was talking about MMO's, if you had been at the launch of as many as me you would know what he means, this is always the way of things, servers will be unstable for around 3 months, and if you get an entire day without any down time in the first month the developers are managing Mr Scott esque miracles.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Addressing the Neutral Zone issue, it's not really the Neutral Zone anymore, it's the front line of a war.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    MrSloane wrote:
    I think you took the phrase "you must be new here" too literally, I think he was talking about MMO's, if you had been at the launch of as many as me you would know what he means, this is always the way of things, servers will be unstable for around 3 months, and if you get an entire day without any down time in the first month the developers are managing Mr Scott esque miracles.

    No I understood him quite well. I was and have been playing MMO since the first MMO that every came out 2 words Ultima Online. There never will be a MMO that went down as often as that one did.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Rikaelus wrote: »
    If there are missions referencing a Klingon Neutral Zone then I agree 100% those missions need to have that corrected. There hasn't been a Klingon Neutral Zone since the Khitomer Accords and even if there were, the very definition of what a Neutral Zone is would be contrary to how it was being used.


    The mission that sends you to DK7. LOL
    First you are instructed to go there and it is clearly labeld with the Neutral Zone. You are to go there to talk with Admiral Wildman. DK7 is the station from Star Trek(Original Series) The Trouble With Tribbles. If that isn't enough for you then scroll 2 screens right on your map and notice it is red and is the location of the Klingon Homeworld. The Neutral Zone does not denote Klingon nor does it denote Romulan. It denotes an area of space that is Neutral for all parties in essence a line where neither faction has control unless you cross the border to their side. In addition they have placed Mackenzie Calhoun on DK7. In the books he is and was in and around the Tholians. It is a Neutral Zone area as well.
    If the game is going to make use of THE NEUTRAL ZONE then take the appropriate steps so that the game has the feel of Star Trek in that regard. It is very simple.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    skyhawk21 wrote: »
    Addressing the Neutral Zone issue, it's not really the Neutral Zone anymore, it's the front line of a war.

    Fine if you are correct then why does the first mission that takes you into that area of space specifically reference The Neutral Zone.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    You want a message when you cross into the Nuetral Zone? We can't even get a message when they are going to perform "maintainance". But this would be cool in a few years when we can actually stay online.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    :D
    Rojor wrote:
    You want a message when you cross into the Nuetral Zone? We can't even get a message when they are going to perform "maintainance". But this would be cool in a few years when we can actually stay online.

    LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    OP

    you'er aware that the NEUTRAL zone has very little meaning when you are at WAR.. right?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    OP

    you'er aware that the NEUTRAL zone has very little meaning when you are at WAR.. right?

    I am indeed.
    People miss the point. The Neutral Zone is not just for The Klingons. There is a Romulan Neutral Zone(who are broke and have no money YES) There is a Thaloian Neutral Zone, Cardassian Neutral Zone, Jem Hadar Neutral Zone,
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Regarding the Kobayashi Maru... if they had you coming out of the academy and then being handed command of a starship... that's a bit silly isn't it? The way they've done it implies you've served enough time on the ship to actually be one of the 'senior' ensigns (since you are considered to be the highest ranked officers). An ensign with a few years under their belt being able to command a starship is far more reasonable to me.[/QUOTE]



    I was reading your post. You know you are quite right ,but we as movie goers accepted that exact storyline so to speak.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    shadowgate wrote: »
    I am indeed.
    People miss the point. The Neutral Zone is not just for The Klingons. There is a Romulan Neutral Zone(who are broke and have no money YES) There is a Thaloian Neutral Zone, Cardassian Neutral Zone, Jem Hadar Neutral Zone,

    Some of that is theoretical, anyway. Neutral Zones are established by treaty, and I haven't yet heard of any terms of our treaty with the Dominion including a Neutral Zone. For that matter, as I understand it, the Jem'Hadar that are still in our space aren't even part of the Dominion. I'd think the Dominion would have been promptly sent back through the wormhole after the hole, save for those left behind.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Rikaelus wrote: »
    Some of that is theoretical, anyway. Neutral Zones are established by treaty, and I haven't yet heard of any terms of our treaty with the Dominion including a Neutral Zone. For that matter, as I understand it, the Jem'Hadar that are still in our space aren't even part of the Dominion. I'd think the Dominion would have been promptly sent back through the wormhole after the hole, save for those left behind.

    Well the Aliens in the wormhole prevented them from crossing over to the Alpha Quadrant in the series. I would venture that the same aliens probably shut down access it wasn't really all that clear the state of the wormhole when they ended the series I DON'T THINK ,but perhaps someone who has watched the finale recently can elaborate on that one.
    I know there isn't really a Jem Hadar Neutral Zone. My point was to use it in a long list of enemies ,because people seem to be missing the point which is The Neutral Zone is not something for exclusive use of The Klingons or whatever race.

    THE NEUTRAL ZONE is an area of space that is made to prevent or avoid war as another posted stated recently.

    THE POINT OF THE THREAD
    The game references the Neutral Zone clearly. The game doesn't have NPC's on your team state "That course will take us into the Romulan/Klingon/Thaloian/Cardassian Neutral Zone.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    shadowgate wrote: »
    Nope I am not new here. I have been around since the first day of Open Beta. I am aware of servers going down and crashing. However if they didn't have the game stable enough then they should have been clear with the people who talk to us. They should have stated to the Devs don't commit to our server being more stable once open beta is over. They made the statement I didn't and I am simply calling them on it. A no win scenario if that was the intent of it then no I wouldn't agree with it. It is more so a test of character. It should in someway shape or form be incorporated into the game.

    Theres has been talk of more rooms on ships, maybe a holodeck room with the maru simulation in it would be good...(this could even be flown in an !"on the bridge" view)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    shadowgate wrote: »
    Nope I am not new here. I have been around since the first day of Open Beta. I am aware of servers going down and crashing. However if they didn't have the game stable enough then they should have been clear with the people who talk to us. They should have stated to the Devs don't commit to our server being more stable once open beta is over. They made the statement I didn't and I am simply calling them on it. A no win scenario if that was the intent of it then no I wouldn't agree with it. It is more so a test of character. It should in someway shape or form be incorporated into the game.

    It is impossible to plan for unforseen events, by the very nature that they're unforseen. No ammount of beta testing will uncover all possible unforseen occasions. The game stayed up for over 26 hours, so it appears they were relatively stable until said unforseen occasion.

    The Kobiyashi Maru SHOULD be incorperated in a game just because YOU want it to be? How arogaunt. Well, I have your Kobiyashi Maru test right here. Captain, your task is to....log on. There. You have your no-win situation.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    kamui wrote: »
    It is impossible to plan for unforseen events, by the very nature that they're unforseen. No ammount of beta testing will uncover all possible unforseen occasions. The game stayed up for over 26 hours, so it appears they were relatively stable until said unforseen occasion.

    The Kobiyashi Maru SHOULD be incorperated in a game just because YOU want it to be? How arogaunt. Well, I have your Kobiyashi Maru test right here. Captain, your task is to....log on. There. You have your no-win situation.

    Kirk was aerogant :) and he was indeed my idol growin up so thanks :) As I stated earliar the devs made the post the server once outta beta would be more stable. Another Dev recently posted stating they noticed some slowness / lag. That in my mind does not constitute Emergency Downtime. That is clearly something that you handle when the next scheduled downtime unless there is something they have found that they haven't stated to us. I am a stickler for if a business rep tells me something I expect it to be honored or adhered to.

    The Kobayashi Maru is a wish / desire ,because it is part of Star Trek.

    The Neutral Zone is a much more important immediate need to be addressed. That has been being put on the boards since before Open Beta Stated.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    The term neutral zone confused me terribly, as a game player first and a star trek fan second. The mission text refers to the 'neutral zone' a few times which had me going back a fourth between the kingon and romulan zones a few times to find out which zone they meant.

    Tbh I think they just used the phrase as it sounds good the feel of the game is so far removed from the show, in the series the neutral zone created tension because crossing into it could spark a war. Well in this game it too late the war is on making such a zone irrelevant.

    Regarding the Kobayashi Maru I expect to see that in some incarnation in a future update, in its most basic form it could just be a training mission where sucess is based on how long you survive against increasing waves of enemies. Not hard to implement.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    HubsST wrote: »
    Theres has been talk of more rooms on ships, maybe a holodeck room with the maru simulation in it would be good...(this could even be flown in an !"on the bridge" view)

    Agreed. It would be very simple to add rooms to the ship. A holodeck or a mission that inadvertently turns into a No Win Scenario that you can win ,but have some tragic loss.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Well, the Kobayashi Maru is no longer a single test. It's since become custom tailored to an individual's psychological profile. To have the Kobayashi Maru in STO would effectively envelop designing a whole new mission every time someone makes a new character. Also, you start the game off as an Ensign. This means that you've already completed your Kobayashi Maru. So just calm down and make something up for your character's backstory. This isn't Starfleet Academy Online afterall.

    The psych test and KM exam are two utterly different things.

    The psych test is part of the entrance exame into the Academy, the KM is one of the final tests for graduation.

    However as has been stated prior, the player is starting off as an Ensign so they're already comissioned and would have already completed all tests and exams linked with the academy.

    Whether or not the tutorial would have been more fun if it were some kind of condensed Academy is really the question at hand though. Personaly I am of the firm belief that it would have been. If the holodeck was used as the primary source of "learning" with the academy, the tutorial could effectively teach you any aspect of the game, via the holodeck, in a far more constructive way.

    Throwing a player straight into action is fine and dandy if action is all you're interested in, but frankly for a Star Trek game action should not really be the primary focus of the main audience of the title.

    But then it has been known for quite some time that STO is not really a game that caters for the trekkies.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Henners191 wrote: »
    The term neutral zone confused me terribly, as a game player first and a star trek fan second. The mission text refers to the 'neutral zone' a few times which had me going back a fourth between the kingon and romulan zones a few times to find out which zone they meant.

    Tbh I think they just used the phrase as it sounds good the feel of the game is so far removed from the show, in the series the neutral zone created tension because crossing into it could spark a war. Well in this game it too late the war is on making such a zone irrelevant.

    Regarding the Kobayashi Maru I expect to see that in some incarnation in a future update, in its most basic form it could just be a training mission where sucess is based on how long you survive against increasing waves of enemies. Not hard to implement.

    AGAIN NEUTRAL ZONE is not exclusive to Klingons. Nor is it EXCLUSIVE to the Romulans.
    NEUTRAL ZONE is an area of space to avoid a war or not start other wars.

    Sure it sounds good ,but that isn't the ONLY reason nor is it the point of the thread. I must disagree with you about the game being removed from the series. We have already had reference to Voyager, Star Trek Original with the Guardian of Forerver. In addition we have received additional references to the mirror universe for more than one series.

    It is not that hard for them to incorporate into the game an NPC or the Computer stating that course will take us directly into The Cardassian Neutral Zone.
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