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Dupe Exploit

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited January 2010 in PC Gameplay Bug Reports
Twice now I have been able to dupe an item. First time I duped the starter klingon torpedo launcher by accident. Recently, I duplicated a rare impulse engine mk II while trying to duplicate the exploit (get it? I duplicated the dupe).

You know how sometimes who you transition into space you appear as your captain for a short period of time before transforming into your spaceship? During that time, quickly try to transfer items between your spaceship and your inventory. If it works, the items shouldn't respond right away because your character is still loading. Once it resolves, you'll have duplicate items in both your inventory and on your paperdoll. So far I have only done this with items on my ship and only in space (I don't know if this works when you appear as a ship on the ground and are waiting for your captain to load).

edit: I also apparently duplicated my ships shield
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    small update: I just duped my personal shield, my body armor, my kit, and my 2 guns. The exploit does work when going from space to ground and you appear as your ship while waiting for your captain to load.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Confirmed, Works for me to but this really wasnt the best place to post this now everyone will do it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    It's open beta... who cares if people dupe. He posted this so the devs would know and take care of it before launch when it really matters.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Shrapnel wrote: »
    Confirmed, Works for me to but this really wasnt the best place to post this now everyone will do it.

    Good, then Cryptic will have to give it a lot of attention.


    Finding a bug of this nature worries me. Not that its a bug, or a dupe, because things like that are very common in betas. What worries me is that this is a classic exploit. I've seen dupe exploits similar to this in Ultima Online, Everquest, Ashron's Call, Dark Ages of Camelot, and many others. At this point in time, I would like to think MMO developers would test for it, given how gamebreaking dupe exploits can be.

    Yes as beta testers its our duty to find things like this, but its such an obvious bug.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Wouldn't an exploit like this been best if you bugged it ingame, or PM a Dev here, instead of posting it on an open forum, making everyone aware of this?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Don't get on the guy for posting.

    It's beta and it's a bug. This is the "Gameplay Bugs" forum.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I did bug this in game, I just felt it was very important. As was already pointed out, this is a Gameplay Bugs forum. If the game were actually live, of course I wouldn't post this on an open forum.

    Not spotting such an obvious dupe bug is like not checking for buffer overflow errors in a printf statement, its sloppy. Dupe bugs should always be given a high priority, and hopefully someday cryptic will do a detailed look at the flow of items in game code for every patch.

    I'm not raging, I'm not QQing. I just think its important.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Bobkyou wrote:
    I did bug this in game, I just felt it was very important. As was already pointed out, this is a Gameplay Bugs forum. If the game were actually live, of course I wouldn't post this on an open forum.

    Not spotting such an obvious dupe bug is like not checking for buffer overflow errors in a printf statement, its sloppy. Dupe bugs should always be given a high priority, and hopefully someday cryptic will do a detailed look at the flow of items in game code for every patch.

    I'm not raging, I'm not QQing. I just think its important.

    I agree it is a gamebug and a major issue. But it is also an exploit. Do you think it is wise posting this on an open forum for all to see?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Why, its a beta phase where everything is going to get wiped. Thus even if everyone dupes they dont get anything but a short term boost and frankly. Whats wrong with that ?

    Energy credits arent hard to earn so selling the duped items only helps you out to get basic stuff. Which allows more players to test that equipment and go do other things.

    If it was actual game launch then yeah, it would be a problem. But ITS A BETA ! as so many people have been responding to those who complain. Pointing this out is your job and making it public forces Cryptic to fix it otherwise at launch people are going to be doing it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Its irrelevant that he posts it here and the knowledge spreads.

    In case you didn't know, there will be a character wipe at the end of Open Beta.

    Thanks OP for making this known and doing all you can to get it fixed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Renaikan wrote: »
    I agree it is a gamebug and a major issue. But it is also an exploit. Do you think it is wise posting this on an open forum for all to see?
    I do. This is beta, the purpose is to beta TEST. The more people that reproduce the bug, the more data Cryptic will have to squash it at launch.

    Good catch, imo. If this existed at launch it could ruin the start of the game for a lot of players.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Bobkyou wrote:
    Good, then Cryptic will have to give it a lot of attention.


    Finding a bug of this nature worries me. Not that its a bug, or a dupe, because things like that are very common in betas. What worries me is that this is a classic exploit. I've seen dupe exploits similar to this in Ultima Online, Everquest, Ashron's Call, Dark Ages of Camelot, and many others. At this point in time, I would like to think MMO developers would test for it, given how gamebreaking dupe exploits can be.

    Yes as beta testers its our duty to find things like this, but its such an obvious bug.

    This graphical bug, where you appear as your ship on ground and vise versa... wasn't in CB. It started in Open so I'm sure it will be fixed soon.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Doc_Griff wrote:
    This graphical bug, where you appear as your ship on ground and vise versa... wasn't in CB. It started in Open so I'm sure it will be fixed soon.

    I'm only guessing here, but I don't believe its a graphical bug. Seeing a person standing in space or a ship on a starbase is a symptom. Seeing spots is not the virus chicken pox, it is a symptom of chicken pox.

    I would guess that the reason this wasn't seen in closed beta (and I was in closed beta for a short while) was because of the much smaller server load. The root of this bug, most likely, is the delay between databases as items are transferred while the game is waiting for the information about your ship to be loaded into memory.

    So the two fixes for this would be either to deal with the server load, or to take an in depth look at the tables that hold items. Fixing the server load is just a bandaid, because the root problem exists that the database that holds items has fundamental flaws that need to be addressed.


    Cryptic, please take a very detailed look at the fundamental way items are handled in this game. The database itself should be setup where it is fundamentally impossible to duplicate entries. If you only fix this specific exploit, and not improve the base structure, similar exploits will be found.


    If you guys happen to need a college graduate with only a few years of experience but trained in secure programming, I am currently unemployed :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Renaikan wrote: »
    I agree it is a gamebug and a major issue. But it is also an exploit. Do you think it is wise posting this on an open forum for all to see?

    Yes. This is the type of bug that can kill a game, and it's not the only exploit currently in game. If you want to enjoy the game after release, you better do everything to make everyone aware of these exploits. You don't want to run the risk of them being overlooked because not enough noise was made, and being used after release.

    Beta doesn't matter. Everything will be wiped anyway. But if they have to reset the servers one month after release that would really suck.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Bobkyou wrote:
    I'm only guessing here, but I don't believe its a graphical bug. Seeing a person standing in space or a ship on a starbase is a symptom. Seeing spots is not the virus chicken pox, it is a symptom of chicken pox.

    I would guess that the reason this wasn't seen in closed beta (and I was in closed beta for a short while) was because of the much smaller server load. The root of this bug, most likely, is the delay between databases as items are transferred while the game is waiting for the information about your ship to be loaded into memory.

    So the two fixes for this would be either to deal with the server load, or to take an in depth look at the tables that hold items. Fixing the server load is just a bandaid, because the root problem exists that the database that holds items has fundamental flaws that need to be addressed.


    Cryptic, please take a very detailed look at the fundamental way items are handled in this game. The database itself should be setup where it is fundamentally impossible to duplicate entries. If you only fix this specific exploit, and not improve the base structure, similar exploits will be found.


    If you guys happen to need a college graduate with only a few years of experience but trained in secure programming, I am currently unemployed :D

    Its not, you are correct.

    It was easier to say graphical bug though :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    ...Beta doesn't matter. Everything will be wiped anyway. But if they have to reset the servers one month after release that would really suck.

    Resetting the servers would not be on option unless they made not of EVERYTHING that each account has. If not, I can guarantee it would have a huge unfavorable impact.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    If anything, I would think that having more people testing this would be better. It might not work for some people who use certain connection type, it might not worth with proxies, you never know how it's all wired in the system.

    Besides, the people who are genuinely trying to make the game better by testing it will use the bug only to test the bug, the people who are taking advantage of the bug to play the game and become more "leet" obviously aren't testing it anyway.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Renaikan wrote: »
    Wouldn't an exploit like this been best if you bugged it ingame, or PM a Dev here, instead of posting it on an open forum, making everyone aware of this?

    On the contrary, if it's kept quiet and very few people know about it then sometimes developers will ignore the problem or delay a resolution. If everybody knows and everybody is doing it, then it quickly cripples the game and it forces the devs to fix it ASAP.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Yes. This is the type of bug that can kill a game, and it's not the only exploit currently in game. If you want to enjoy the game after release, you better do everything to make everyone aware of these exploits. You don't want to run the risk of them being overlooked because not enough noise was made, and being used after release.

    Beta doesn't matter. Everything will be wiped anyway. But if they have to reset the servers one month after release that would really suck.

    You make the Devs aware of it, not the entire public. Get the point? What if this issue is not fixed by release? All the exploiters out there will be doing it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    On the contrary, if it's kept quiet and very few people know about it then sometimes developers will ignore the problem or delay a resolution. If everybody knows and everybody is doing it, then it quickly cripples the game and it forces the devs to fix it ASAP.

    Make the DEVS aware of it, not the ENTIRE PIUBLIC on an OPEN MESSAGE BOARD.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Renaikan wrote: »
    You make the Devs aware of it, not the entire public. Get the point? What if this issue is not fixed by release? All the exploiters out there will be doing it.
    Renaikan wrote: »
    Make the DEVS aware of it, not the ENTIRE PIUBLIC on an OPEN MESSAGE BOARD.

    It is an extremely obvious exploit, and there are many gamers who dedicate themselves to looking for in game exploits. Ultima Online, a game of 250,000 players, had a community of thousands dedicated to finding dupes and other exploits (a lot of them were organized on a site called uoshack, which I was a member of). This is not some great hidden thing that no one would have found, this would have been discovered at launch on day 1 by people who aren't scrupulous enough to report it. Obscurity by trying to keep the exploit 'secret' is a horrible security approach.

    Cryptic has 2 weeks to put a bandaid on this problem, and a good deal of time beyond that to address the underlying cause. This exploit will never see release day, and probably won't see the end of next week.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Don't forget Askchopper, they had a whole membership elite kind of thing going as well.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Darkarma wrote: »
    Don't forget Askchopper, they had a whole membership elite kind of thing going as well.

    Oh yeah, forgot about them. Never tried to join though, was happy with uoshack and uo extreme. And I'm sure there were other sites as well.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    interesting...see, i never would have thought of this. makes me happy that some here are finding things such as this.
    people have varied perceptions and curiosities...
    i tend to find mispelled or missing words, items, out of place things...tiny compared to this, but that is where i tend to find stuff.
    i am never one to find a cheat in game as i like to play fair and work off my own merits, rather then stealing them...lol

    but for giggles i am going to try this later and see if it has been addressed yet.

    thanks for finding this, at least your honesty and forthright posting shows you care about balance at this point... :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    but for giggles i am going to try this later and see if it has been addressed yet.

    Would have to wait for a server patch before it'll get addressed, and yeah it currently still works.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Renaikan wrote: »
    Make the DEVS aware of it, not the ENTIRE PIUBLIC on an OPEN MESSAGE BOARD.

    You're not familiar with the idea of whistleblowing, are you? Problems get much more attention when everyone knows about them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I'm sure there were many bug submissions regarding this exploit during CB.

    These types of exploits are intentionally not patched until launch (for obvious reasons). It would be wise not to post them on the forums though, because it can TRIBBLE over the exchange having 100x as many people using them (not super important during beta, but can be annoying).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    lol i tried it... lost my item .. MKIII Launcher .... Go figure
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I agree, that these types of exploits, bugs, dupes or what I prefer to use "cheats", are the things that need to be addressed in open forum. The more this problem is made aware of, the more likely the problem will be addressed and fixed. I really don't care if launch dates get pushed back if a major problem (as common as this one is) is in play. It can be very destructive to a MMO if problems like this are "in game", for the players, as well as the Dev's. For some reason players love to take advantage of these problems and use them "in game". To me, it does nothing but take the fun out of the game. I mean who really cares if you win by cheating but maybe you... just to say "yaaa, I won. yaaaa!".

    I currently play World of Warcraft (been waiting for STO for yrs. now) and even to this day cheating is a problem. There will always be cheating with games but, with the problem being addressed in open forum you can be assured that with everyone doing it, it will be a problem that will be fixed fast. We Borg don't just sit around talking secretively about a problem. We see it, analyze it, an adapted to it, fast or be destroyed. :D

    If you are one of those people exploiting the cheat "in game" then by all means Dev's, ban the account without warning (they know better) and make them buy a new game/account to play again.

    IMO...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Bobkyou wrote:
    I'm only guessing here, but I don't believe its a graphical bug. Seeing a person standing in space or a ship on a starbase is a symptom. Seeing spots is not the virus chicken pox, it is a symptom of chicken pox.

    I would guess that the reason this wasn't seen in closed beta (and I was in closed beta for a short while) was because of the much smaller server load. The root of this bug, most likely, is the delay between databases as items are transferred while the game is waiting for the information about your ship to be loaded into memory.

    So the two fixes for this would be either to deal with the server load, or to take an in depth look at the tables that hold items. Fixing the server load is just a bandaid, because the root problem exists that the database that holds items has fundamental flaws that need to be addressed.


    Cryptic, please take a very detailed look at the fundamental way items are handled in this game. The database itself should be setup where it is fundamentally impossible to duplicate entries. If you only fix this specific exploit, and not improve the base structure, similar exploits will be found.


    If you guys happen to need a college graduate with only a few years of experience but trained in secure programming, I am currently unemployed :D

    I'd say you hire this guy
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