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I have idea addressing pvp, dill sink and player gap

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    nuketfnuketf Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited June 2022
    My idea for PVP the community can do right now - get a fresh ship, stock gear only, rank 4 consoles, if the ship comes with more then one universla, pick one and trash the other. Now, fight.

    With this, ships return to the roles they used to play before the power creep

    Cruisers - tanks

    Escorts - DPS

    Science ships - Healers

    I was able to test this once.. and it worked.

    Edit: Oh, and no traits.
    AKA, Beard of borg. Owner of the title "Should have left"
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    sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 5,675 Arc User
    edited June 2022
    nuketf wrote: »
    My idea for PVP the community can do right now - get a fresh ship, stock gear only, rank 4 consoles, if the ship comes with more then one universla, pick one and trash the other. Now, fight.

    With this, ships return to the roles they used to play before the power creep

    Cruisers - tanks

    Escorts - DPS

    Science ships - Healers

    I was able to test this once.. and it worked.

    Edit: Oh, and no traits.

    I do not subscribe to the trinity way of thinking when it comes to STO. One time I didn't and then I did and changed my cruiser for an escort but I am not going to tell someone that if they are tactical, engineering, or science they must use a build for tank, DPS, and healers respectively. Every player has a different playstyle when it comes to PvP (as well as PvE) including what builds they use and that work for them. What player wants their build to become weak and use rank 4 consoles, stock gear, 1 uni, and no traits? I sure wouldn't, I would want my consoles, gear, unis, and the traits that I have chosen balanced for PvP battles. This is not the solution. Also, while in the past I did PvP with one of my acquaintances because of an invitation, I have no desire for PvP. I would rather face an enemy like the Borg and other species. I believe that we are past the point of no return when it comes to PvP. The new PvP queues they built as well as the Competitive Reputation they made to go along with it did not revitalize PvP and was not a success. If it had succeeded, PvP would be more popular most likely.
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
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    nuketfnuketf Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited June 2022
    sthe91 wrote: »
    nuketf wrote: »
    My idea for PVP the community can do right now - get a fresh ship, stock gear only, rank 4 consoles, if the ship comes with more then one universla, pick one and trash the other. Now, fight.

    With this, ships return to the roles they used to play before the power creep

    Cruisers - tanks

    Escorts - DPS

    Science ships - Healers

    I was able to test this once.. and it worked.

    Edit: Oh, and no traits.

    I do not subscribe to the trinity way of thinking when it comes to STO. One time I didn't and then I did and changed my cruiser for an escort but I am not going to tell someone that if they are tactical, engineering, or science they must use a build for tank, DPS, and healers respectively.

    I am qouting from the bookliet that came with the Star trek online CD, which the booklet says cruiser are tanks, escorts are DPS, and science are healers / team buffers.


    Edit: Also, the problem with PVP is the power creep, this removes that and also puts it into your boff ablity, timing, and caption skill, insted of activating 20+ buffs to one shot ships after you cloak.


    AKA, Beard of borg. Owner of the title "Should have left"
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    sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 5,675 Arc User
    nuketf wrote: »
    sthe91 wrote: »
    nuketf wrote: »
    My idea for PVP the community can do right now - get a fresh ship, stock gear only, rank 4 consoles, if the ship comes with more then one universla, pick one and trash the other. Now, fight.

    With this, ships return to the roles they used to play before the power creep

    Cruisers - tanks

    Escorts - DPS

    Science ships - Healers

    I was able to test this once.. and it worked.

    Edit: Oh, and no traits.

    I do not subscribe to the trinity way of thinking when it comes to STO. One time I didn't and then I did and changed my cruiser for an escort but I am not going to tell someone that if they are tactical, engineering, or science they must use a build for tank, DPS, and healers respectively.

    I am qouting from the bookliet that came with the Star trek online CD, which the booklet says cruiser are tanks, escorts are DPS, and science are healers / team buffers.


    Edit: Also, the problem with PVP is the power creep, this removes that and also puts it into your boff ablity, timing, and caption skill, insted of activating 20+ buffs to one shot ships after you cloak.


    I did not know you were quoting from the booklet that came when you bought Star Trek Online on a CD. That is news to me. Still would not want to do that.
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
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    husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,601 Arc User
    edited June 2022
    sthe91 wrote: »
    nuketf wrote: »
    sthe91 wrote: »
    nuketf wrote: »
    My idea for PVP the community can do right now - get a fresh ship, stock gear only, rank 4 consoles, if the ship comes with more then one universla, pick one and trash the other. Now, fight.

    With this, ships return to the roles they used to play before the power creep

    Cruisers - tanks

    Escorts - DPS

    Science ships - Healers

    I was able to test this once.. and it worked.

    Edit: Oh, and no traits.

    I do not subscribe to the trinity way of thinking when it comes to STO. One time I didn't and then I did and changed my cruiser for an escort but I am not going to tell someone that if they are tactical, engineering, or science they must use a build for tank, DPS, and healers respectively.

    I am qouting from the bookliet that came with the Star trek online CD, which the booklet says cruiser are tanks, escorts are DPS, and science are healers / team buffers.


    Edit: Also, the problem with PVP is the power creep, this removes that and also puts it into your boff ablity, timing, and caption skill, insted of activating 20+ buffs to one shot ships after you cloak.


    I did not know you were quoting from the booklet that came when you bought Star Trek Online on a CD. That is news to me. Still would not want to do that.

    Was the design of the core game.

    Escort/Tac = fighter class
    cruiser/Engi = tank class
    Sci/Sci = wizard class

    STO was and is a MMO. Even then though STO had a lot of variety via boff skills... and sure a Science Captain could fly a cruiser or a Engi toon could fly an escort. But lots of games allow their classes to branch out a bit.

    PvP in this game worked best before all the creep that basically turned STO PvE into a DPS race.

    The best time frame for PvP in STO was before reputation, before ship traits... and I would say even before gear sets. For new players they probably wouldn't believe it but there was a time when no one had 1 set on their ships... cause the game didn't have any. lol The Borg mission set and Aegis crafted sets where the first sets added and it made STO more boring. Yes the glory days PvP teams had 2 escorts, a couple sci ships and a healer... with some variation but if you went with out a healer you needed to be a very good cross healing team, if you had 2 healers you better have some top notch DPS players... and if you had a 5 man Sci wizard team people logged out on you. lmao ;)
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    nuketfnuketf Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    husanakx wrote: »
    sthe91 wrote: »
    nuketf wrote: »
    sthe91 wrote: »
    nuketf wrote: »
    My idea for PVP the community can do right now - get a fresh ship, stock gear only, rank 4 consoles, if the ship comes with more then one universla, pick one and trash the other. Now, fight.

    With this, ships return to the roles they used to play before the power creep

    Cruisers - tanks

    Escorts - DPS

    Science ships - Healers

    I was able to test this once.. and it worked.

    Edit: Oh, and no traits.

    I do not subscribe to the trinity way of thinking when it comes to STO. One time I didn't and then I did and changed my cruiser for an escort but I am not going to tell someone that if they are tactical, engineering, or science they must use a build for tank, DPS, and healers respectively.

    I am qouting from the bookliet that came with the Star trek online CD, which the booklet says cruiser are tanks, escorts are DPS, and science are healers / team buffers.


    Edit: Also, the problem with PVP is the power creep, this removes that and also puts it into your boff ablity, timing, and caption skill, insted of activating 20+ buffs to one shot ships after you cloak.


    I did not know you were quoting from the booklet that came when you bought Star Trek Online on a CD. That is news to me. Still would not want to do that.

    Was the design of the core game.

    Escort/Tac = fighter class
    cruiser/Engi = tank class
    Sci/Sci = wizard class

    STO was and is a MMO. Even then though STO had a lot of variety via boff skills... and sure a Science Captain could fly a cruiser or a Engi toon could fly an escort. But lots of games allow their classes to branch out a bit.

    PvP in this game worked best before all the creep that basically turned STO PvE into a DPS race.

    The best time frame for PvP in STO was before reputation, before ship traits... and I would say even before gear sets. For new players they probably wouldn't believe it but there was a time when no one had 1 set on their ships... cause the game didn't have any. lol The Borg mission set and Aegis crafted sets where the first sets added and it made STO more boring. Yes the glory days PvP teams had 2 escorts, a couple sci ships and a healer... with some variation but if you went with out a healer you needed to be a very good cross healing team, if you had 2 healers you better have some top notch DPS players... and if you had a 5 man Sci wizard team people logged out on you. lmao ;)

    And to add to this - it still is the same today. Put the same tank gear on a cruiser and escort, and the cruiser will be much more tanky, where if you put the DPS on a cruiser and escort, the escort will do much much more DPS.


    my PVP idea makes PVP more fair, and the bar to entery much lower, allowing even a new player to hop in and play.
    AKA, Beard of borg. Owner of the title "Should have left"
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    jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,410 Arc User
    When that CD was available, the Trinity ruled the way people thought about MMOs, so the book used that example in order to ease people into play. However, the gameplay was never designed around that; from day one, any captain could fly any ship, equipped with any loadout that made sense (we don't put cannon on cruisers for the most part because cruisers turn like a drunken cow, not because they're "tanky", for example).

    And PvP is a dead horse. Those who are insistent on playing PvP in a universe not built for it still find a way; there's no reason to eat the scarce resources available to this game in an attempt to emulate other games like EvE Online. (I know, PvP enthusiasts insist most players are like them, but in counterpoint Fallout 76 was initially built around constant PvP, and did not achieve success until that idea was dropped and it became opt-in PvP. Turns out that in the post-apocalypse, most folks wanted to either work together or stay the hell away from each other, not kill each other for sport.)
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
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    husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,601 Arc User
    edited June 2022
    jonsills wrote: »
    When that CD was available, the Trinity ruled the way people thought about MMOs, so the book used that example in order to ease people into play. However, the gameplay was never designed around that; from day one, any captain could fly any ship, equipped with any loadout that made sense (we don't put cannon on cruisers for the most part because cruisers turn like a drunken cow, not because they're "tanky", for example).

    And PvP is a dead horse. Those who are insistent on playing PvP in a universe not built for it still find a way; there's no reason to eat the scarce resources available to this game in an attempt to emulate other games like EvE Online. (I know, PvP enthusiasts insist most players are like them, but in counterpoint Fallout 76 was initially built around constant PvP, and did not achieve success until that idea was dropped and it became opt-in PvP. Turns out that in the post-apocalypse, most folks wanted to either work together or stay the hell away from each other, not kill each other for sport.)

    Well despite their current state... Cannons where in fact designed to have more DPS. Cruisers and sci ships didn't slot them cause they where not DPS ships. It had nothing to do with turn restrictions. They where by design higher damage weapons, the trade off yes was arc (as well as power draw)... it was also firing rate. DHC got the innate bonus CRTD cause they fired slower then DC. DC/DHC got dmg bonuses over single cannons cause they had a smaller Arc. Also initially the ships that could slot cannons where intended to be "glass" cannons. Escorts didn't get innate defense bonuses till much later... what they got was lower hull lower shields and one less weapon slot (Cause Cannons where >). Also the early ships had LT at best sci and engi slots which meant far less healing. Birds of prey got even less they lost a weapon over an escort... and we have shuttles in modern STO with more hull and shields then the early game BOPs.

    It was only later when Cryptic realized all the real $ was in selling cruisers which appeared in Star Trek shows and movies that they decided beams better get buffs. Cause no one actually enjoys flying cruisers that can't DPS.

    STO on day one was a trinity game. The but I can fly a sci ship if I want argument is silly... I can name plenty of MMOs where you can put a two handed sword on a Monk class, or wear light armor on a tank class... or use a staff type weapon on a fighter/knight class. That doesn't make them non trinity design... it just adds some build variation. Only the very early MMO/RPG restricted those types of things by class. Even when STO launched it was common for game designers to allow for some choice... but the core is still DPS/Debuff/Heal, the fact Cryptic choose to let one captain have it all so they could sell all of it to everyone, doesn't really change the design. Like it or not in general no matter what changes Tacs are still going to do the most dmg in a escort (or whatever destroyer type 5/4 weapon thing Cryptic is making $$ on these days).. a engi is still going to synergize best with a cruiser... a science captains skills still synergize best with a sci ship as they focus on debuffs.

    As for PvP its dead cause Cryptic left it to die. PvP was 12 years ago a core component of STO. STO attracted a lot of PvP players from other games when it launched, and yes Cryptic has spent a decade driving most of them away for good. They never pushed PvP on PvE players like CCP would have. (well unless you wanted to play KDF I guess) STO attracted a lot of PvP refuges from games like Eve though... it was a faster pace, easier to tweak, less hardcore PvP game with a loved IP. The STO PvP community in the first 3-4 years of the game was friendly welcoming and fun. I mean it still is its just much smaller.
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    nuketfnuketf Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    PVP, is also a dead because when players (like me) fully test, and say, "hey, this works!" everyone shoots them down saying " I REFUSE to change my build to that play style!"
    AKA, Beard of borg. Owner of the title "Should have left"
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    husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,601 Arc User
    edited June 2022
    nuketf wrote: »
    PVP, is also a dead because when players (like me) fully test, and say, "hey, this works!" everyone shoots them down saying " I REFUSE to change my build to that play style!"

    Well you could always respawn them a lot too change their minds. ;)

    I kid... ime PvPers are the most open to change players you can find. They also tend to be meticulous though and having something just work isn't enough. A PvP build has 101 things it has to consider... Spike DPS or spike Debuff or spike heal / Survivability / counters to Spike and Debuff, then there are team considerations as well in spec choices, synergies with team mates ect. (This is where new PvP players fall down... why they can't fight and want the developer to fix "stealth" mechanics ect. A PvP build has to be prepared to combat things you find in PvP... and you in general don't find them in PvE)

    Buildmanship is what draws most long time PvP players in. Its like tweaking for ultimate PvE DPS and imo there is a lot of overlap with the type of players that compete in PvE DPS leagues/boards ect. Only in PvP you need just enough Spike dmg to win... but have the right counters and survivability to win. In both forms of competitive play there is the I can do it all myself / solo pvp type builds... and the team based builds. IMO there is no difference between players willing to "nanny" dps runs or those wanting to team heal/debuff in PVP. Nor the player that wants to build the super glass cannon that uses those nannys for 1 million DPS PVE runs... or the players that fly the "hammer" PvP build.
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    rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,233 Community Moderator
    In regards to the trinity... STO has loose interpretations of that in space. Ground its a bit more noticable since Science does have pretty much all the heal abilities. In space, both Engineer and Science have different forms of healing, with Engie focusing on actual HP, and Science Shield Healing (Except for Hazard Emitters.)

    But the problem is that you have to build your ship for tank role because of how the aggro system works. I could go in with a Galaxy intending to tank, but can't even attract any aggro because there's another ship doing so much DPS that they have all the aggro. So even if you do build a survivable tank... you're gonna struggle with actually tanking because the other guy is out DPSing you. Yea we have the Cruiser Command Attract Fire, and we have that Threatening Stance toggle, but its not guaranteed to hold aggro when you have someone doing heavy DPS and you can't maintain a high level yourself.

    If we were to get a revamp to the Threat mechanic... I'd want to make it a bit easier to tell when you have aggro, and when you're losing it. Kinda like how FF14 does it. You'd need to be able to see who you've engaged, and who is aggro'd on you. The problem is that would need another UI element to pop up showing a list of names of targets, their HP, and a threat indicator.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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    husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,601 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    In regards to the trinity... STO has loose interpretations of that in space. Ground its a bit more noticable since Science does have pretty much all the heal abilities. In space, both Engineer and Science have different forms of healing, with Engie focusing on actual HP, and Science Shield Healing (Except for Hazard Emitters.)

    But the problem is that you have to build your ship for tank role because of how the aggro system works. I could go in with a Galaxy intending to tank, but can't even attract any aggro because there's another ship doing so much DPS that they have all the aggro. So even if you do build a survivable tank... you're gonna struggle with actually tanking because the other guy is out DPSing you. Yea we have the Cruiser Command Attract Fire, and we have that Threatening Stance toggle, but its not guaranteed to hold aggro when you have someone doing heavy DPS and you can't maintain a high level yourself.

    If we were to get a revamp to the Threat mechanic... I'd want to make it a bit easier to tell when you have aggro, and when you're losing it. Kinda like how FF14 does it. You'd need to be able to see who you've engaged, and who is aggro'd on you. The problem is that would need another UI element to pop up showing a list of names of targets, their HP, and a threat indicator.

    Part of that problem... is Cryptic not incentivizing not using threatening stance. DPS gain from +hull from that is bad design, but that is part of the issue. Most DPS players are using +threat. Cryptic should add a second reduce threat stance... with a big enough +dps upside to entice people not trying to tank to use it instead. I know they tried to add some DPS upside to not using it in the strategist spec... but they aren't very strong, compared to just buffing your hull and disco set proc.

    Its a system that could use a rework for sure. I know there are ways to build a tank that will pull argo... it shouldn't have to require such a dedicated expensive setup though.
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    rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,233 Community Moderator
    Well... there are traits the play off the Threatening Stance. But at the moment... the Meta is "it can't hurt you if its already dead". So DPS ends up dominating. Hell... we have a whole League dedicated to DPS. And I respect the members who are honorable and respectful and are willing to offer advice to help others. I don't respect the members who decide to look down on others because they don't measure up to their standard. Like any group in game, there are good and bad.

    IMO there is a place for every playstyle. But to lord it over others as if you're better... everyone has to start somewhere. Some of those people just need to remember that they were down there too at some point in their gaming.

    Anyways... back to the Threatnening Stance and DPS... damage output does tend to be a major factor in drawing Aggro, so the higher the DPS, the bigger the threat. The problem with this really came up when Delta Rising launched. Because we had such high DPS at that time, Cryptic tried to balance that by making a lot of the new enemies DPS Sponges to give the high DPS people a challenge. It backfired bigtime by making most of our builds feel extremely weak. That was rolled back eventually. I still remember the fires of Delta Rising... I was there...

    To really address it we'd probably need a major rework.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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    protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 3,058 Arc User
    husanakx wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    In regards to the trinity... STO has loose interpretations of that in space. Ground its a bit more noticable since Science does have pretty much all the heal abilities. In space, both Engineer and Science have different forms of healing, with Engie focusing on actual HP, and Science Shield Healing (Except for Hazard Emitters.)

    But the problem is that you have to build your ship for tank role because of how the aggro system works. I could go in with a Galaxy intending to tank, but can't even attract any aggro because there's another ship doing so much DPS that they have all the aggro. So even if you do build a survivable tank... you're gonna struggle with actually tanking because the other guy is out DPSing you. Yea we have the Cruiser Command Attract Fire, and we have that Threatening Stance toggle, but its not guaranteed to hold aggro when you have someone doing heavy DPS and you can't maintain a high level yourself.

    If we were to get a revamp to the Threat mechanic... I'd want to make it a bit easier to tell when you have aggro, and when you're losing it. Kinda like how FF14 does it. You'd need to be able to see who you've engaged, and who is aggro'd on you. The problem is that would need another UI element to pop up showing a list of names of targets, their HP, and a threat indicator.

    Part of that problem... is Cryptic not incentivizing not using threatening stance. DPS gain from +hull from that is bad design, but that is part of the issue. Most DPS players are using +threat. Cryptic should add a second reduce threat stance... with a big enough +dps upside to entice people not trying to tank to use it instead. I know they tried to add some DPS upside to not using it in the strategist spec... but they aren't very strong, compared to just buffing your hull and disco set proc.

    Its a system that could use a rework for sure. I know there are ways to build a tank that will pull argo... it shouldn't have to require such a dedicated expensive setup though.

    Tanks are expensive ?
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    husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,601 Arc User
    edited June 2022
    protoneous wrote: »
    husanakx wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    In regards to the trinity... STO has loose interpretations of that in space. Ground its a bit more noticable since Science does have pretty much all the heal abilities. In space, both Engineer and Science have different forms of healing, with Engie focusing on actual HP, and Science Shield Healing (Except for Hazard Emitters.)

    But the problem is that you have to build your ship for tank role because of how the aggro system works. I could go in with a Galaxy intending to tank, but can't even attract any aggro because there's another ship doing so much DPS that they have all the aggro. So even if you do build a survivable tank... you're gonna struggle with actually tanking because the other guy is out DPSing you. Yea we have the Cruiser Command Attract Fire, and we have that Threatening Stance toggle, but its not guaranteed to hold aggro when you have someone doing heavy DPS and you can't maintain a high level yourself.

    If we were to get a revamp to the Threat mechanic... I'd want to make it a bit easier to tell when you have aggro, and when you're losing it. Kinda like how FF14 does it. You'd need to be able to see who you've engaged, and who is aggro'd on you. The problem is that would need another UI element to pop up showing a list of names of targets, their HP, and a threat indicator.

    Part of that problem... is Cryptic not incentivizing not using threatening stance. DPS gain from +hull from that is bad design, but that is part of the issue. Most DPS players are using +threat. Cryptic should add a second reduce threat stance... with a big enough +dps upside to entice people not trying to tank to use it instead. I know they tried to add some DPS upside to not using it in the strategist spec... but they aren't very strong, compared to just buffing your hull and disco set proc.

    Its a system that could use a rework for sure. I know there are ways to build a tank that will pull argo... it shouldn't have to require such a dedicated expensive setup though.

    Tanks are expensive ?

    Fair. I have never bothered trying to build a STO tank. I guess things like the delta threat doff aren't normally that expensive.
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    phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,682 Arc User
    edited June 2022
    rattler2 wrote: »
    If we were to get a revamp to the Threat mechanic... I'd want to make it a bit easier to tell when you have aggro, and when you're losing it. Kinda like how FF14 does it. You'd need to be able to see who you've engaged, and who is aggro'd on you. The problem is that would need another UI element to pop up showing a list of names of targets, their HP, and a threat indicator.

    One way they could show relative aggro without big text floaters would be a threat balance track added to the teammate display that would show the aggro you are putting out compared to the others. The track would not even have to be linear, it could be an "aura" of some sort, like having the color of the teammate's frame shift like a heatmap (though that would have disadvantages in the case of colorblind players).

    That way you could tell at a glance who is generating a lot of aggro and how far away they are from you. An alternative would be to track the amount of teammate aggro that reaches your vicinity the same way, though I think it would be less useful since you can already see their distance anyway.

    Likewise small version of the teammate icon could be added to the "targeted" floater to show who is annoying your target the most, though it would only show it for that one enemy unit.
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