test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Cryptic is becoming a Gearbox Studio!

135

Comments

  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,891 Arc User
    Few thoughts :

    Deal finalizes in the month when Cryptic cuts support for Win 7 & looses a portion of the PC player base .
    Good omen .

    One of the first questions to be addressed by the CM was "will STO be sunset" ?
    Great omen .

    But what do I know -- Gearbox or whom ever (do we have an acronym for the new owners yet ?) will order cryptic to re-instate the old Borg STF's , glorious 3 hour grind and all !
    Best pipe dream .

    Crossing the fingers for all involved .
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,108 Arc User
    Honestly, we were just trying to cover all bases of stuff folks might be worried about. There's no need to be concerned for STO, which is still very profitable.

    And speaking of profits:

    https://i.imgur.com/eAXemtg.png

    Source:

    https://embracer.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Embracer-Perfect-World-Entertainment-Presentation-21-dec-vFinal.pdf


    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

    og9Zoh0.jpg
  • hyperionx09hyperionx09 Member Posts: 1,709 Arc User
    So how long until we get cameo appearances from Borderlands? Like Torgue demanding that more kinetic weapons be sold to players because he doesn't believe in energy-based weapons?

    Collaborations/Crossovers are becoming popular amongst game studios under the same umbrella corp, to help maximize profit. Granted, CBS might still be tight-fisted and controlling on content, but I'm sure Gearbox/Embracer Group can grease the right hands for some low-key cameos and inclusions from other IP they now own.

    On the other side of things, I'm pretty sure PWE selling their entire US division is due to cutting their losses in the NA market on top of the failed Torchlight and Magic games, as well as to put more focus on their core Asian audience. I also don't expect anything to change, except hopefully some additional staff to at least finally start bugfixing, followed by increased lootbox content, then everything else. Just holding the STO MMO license is valuable; and milking it for what it's worth from die-hard fans and whales is guaranteed income.

    That said, regardless of all the drama occurring around the execs, the only thing I really wish to come out of this is the STO equivalent of PSO2:NGS. Basically, enough funds and work put in from all parties involved to directly port assets over to a newer engine for easier scalability and easier expansion and evolution. Same STO game, just a new engine.
  • naabal421#0722 naabal421 Member Posts: 162 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    That said, regardless of all the drama occurring around the execs, the only thing I really wish to come out of this is the STO equivalent of PSO2:NGS. Basically, enough funds and work put in from all parties involved to directly port assets over to a newer engine for easier scalability and easier expansion and evolution. Same STO game, just a new engine.
    Lets hope it doesn't turn out like PSO2:NGS. I've heard they've lost like 80% of their playerbase, and those that remain say its not good. I've seen people comparing it to Star Wars Galaxies NGE update.
  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,891 Arc User
    Honestly, we were just trying to cover all bases of stuff folks might be worried about. There's no need to be concerned for STO, which is still very profitable.

    And speaking of profits:

    https://i.imgur.com/eAXemtg.png

    Source:

    https://embracer.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Embracer-Perfect-World-Entertainment-Presentation-21-dec-vFinal.pdf

    Makes me all the more understanding about "we have to cut / sunset X-Y-Z from the game" cuz we can't afford to maintain it ... . /s
  • hyperionx09hyperionx09 Member Posts: 1,709 Arc User
    Lets hope it doesn't turn out like PSO2:NGS. I've heard they've lost like 80% of their playerbase, and those that remain say its not good. I've seen people comparing it to Star Wars Galaxies NGE update.

    To be fair though (and I do play NGS), NGS is lacking on content because they chose to reset and restart. Since it went live, NGS only just got their first major update/expansion this week. Prior, it became a boring grind with minimal variety given how new it was and the lack of new equipment after min-maxing. Thing is, it still has the fully completed PSO2 vanilla to go back and play with.

    As for the comparison, STO shouldn't have to reset if they're just moving to a new engine, much like how Wargaming didn't have to reset anything when moving WoT over to its new engine. The issue is that STO just doesn't have the manpower or investment control to actually get the process started.
  • naabal421#0722 naabal421 Member Posts: 162 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    To be fair though (and I do play NGS), NGS is lacking on content because they chose to reset and restart. Since it went live, NGS only just got their first major update/expansion this week. Prior, it became a boring grind with minimal variety given how new it was and the lack of new equipment after min-maxing. Thing is, it still has the fully completed PSO2 vanilla to go back and play with.

    As for the comparison, STO shouldn't have to reset if they're just moving to a new engine, much like how Wargaming didn't have to reset anything when moving WoT over to its new engine. The issue is that STO just doesn't have the manpower or investment control to actually get the process started.
    I'm not so sure it would work out the way you propose.

    Trying to remake a game in a new engine is already an incredibly expensive task, having to do it with a game that has 12 years of content even more so. They would almost certainly release this newer engine version of STO as a separate product, in a number of waves of content, so they could start making back the costs involved in such a project. It wouldn't be one day STO just has a new engine and everything gets ported over there.

    I can't speak for WoT, but from that I understand its a significantly smaller scope game then STO is, and did the change far earlier in its lifespan where there was comparatively less in it.
  • bucklerpwbucklerpw Member Posts: 100 Arc User
    How big is Gearbox? Could they buy the whole Star Trek franchise?
  • naabal421#0722 naabal421 Member Posts: 162 Arc User
    bucklerpw wrote: »
    How big is Gearbox? Could they buy the whole Star Trek franchise?
    You mean buy Star Trek from CBS/Paramount? No, Gearbox couldn't even begin to shake enough money in CBS/Paramount's direction to even begin making them even remotely consider it. And why would a video game company buy a TV/movie series?
  • grendelthewise#0990 grendelthewise Member Posts: 635 Arc User
    I don't trust a single thing anyone one from Cryptic says about the latest acquisition. Usually when there is a acquisition of this nature. People are going to be losing their jobs.
    Fleet Admiral of the U.S.S. ATTILA KHAN-CDA (NX-921911).
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,108 Arc User
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    Honestly, we were just trying to cover all bases of stuff folks might be worried about. There's no need to be concerned for STO, which is still very profitable.

    And speaking of profits:

    https://i.imgur.com/eAXemtg.png

    Source:

    https://embracer.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Embracer-Perfect-World-Entertainment-Presentation-21-dec-vFinal.pdf

    Makes me all the more understanding about "we have to cut / sunset X-Y-Z from the game" cuz we can't afford to maintain it ... . /s

    Not 100% I am understanding your intended point, but IMHO that revenue figure of STO is not that impressive considering
    • that figure is over the entire lifetime of the game, not per year
    • it's a game based on a very popular franchise/IP
    • it's a game with gambling mechanics

    By the time you shave off the percent that CBS gets and pay the staff, those earnings really aren't that high considering the above 3 points.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

    og9Zoh0.jpg
  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,891 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    • that figure is over the entire lifetime of the game, not per year

    Point taken.
    However ...
    By the time you shave off the percent that CBS gets and pay the staff, those earnings really aren't that high considering the above 3 points.

    This has to also take into perspective that it's a mid-tier game we're talking about and not a AAA title .
    For such a game to first allocate $$$ to create content, and then save $$$ by removing / removing support for / disabling content -- this points to one of two things :
    Either poor long term planning (vie poor forward thinking) , or poor resource management .

    Cryptic's perpetual habit of making stuff and yanking it -- in a continuous fashion can (to me) only be explained by an early (and rather cryptic) PWE statement about Cryptic being their 'developer arm' .
    But even that does not make a whole lot of sense in the long run .
    Why develop stuff just to trash it ?

    Something does not jive .
    When you're not a AAA game , and can't afford to splurge -- you either have money to develop things to build upon in the future (an not yank said things from the game) , or you focus your spending a lot more then Cryptic seem to do .

    My 2 cents.

  • jcswwjcsww Member Posts: 6,566 Arc User
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    • that figure is over the entire lifetime of the game, not per year

    Point taken.
    However ...
    By the time you shave off the percent that CBS gets and pay the staff, those earnings really aren't that high considering the above 3 points.

    This has to also take into perspective that it's a mid-tier game we're talking about and not a AAA title .
    For such a game to first allocate $$$ to create content, and then save $$$ by removing / removing support for / disabling content -- this points to one of two things :
    Either poor long term planning (vie poor forward thinking) , or poor resource management .

    Cryptic's perpetual habit of making stuff and yanking it -- in a continuous fashion can (to me) only be explained by an early (and rather cryptic) PWE statement about Cryptic being their 'developer arm' .
    But even that does not make a whole lot of sense in the long run .
    Why develop stuff just to trash it ?

    Something does not jive .
    When you're not a AAA game , and can't afford to splurge -- you either have money to develop things to build upon in the future (an not yank said things from the game) , or you focus your spending a lot more then Cryptic seem to do .

    My 2 cents.

    I definitely agree about the removing content. Most of the best content this game has ever seen, was removed.
  • qultuqqultuq Member Posts: 709 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    > @thegrandnagus1 said:
    > Not 100% I am understanding your intended point, but IMHO that revenue figure of STO is not that impressive considering
    > * that figure is over the entire lifetime of the game, not per year
    > * it's a game based on a very popular franchise/IP
    > * it's a game with gambling mechanics
    >
    >
    > By the time you shave off the percent that CBS gets and pay the staff, those earnings really aren't that high considering the above 3 points.

    Good point. Those are the net profit for the lifetime of the Cryptic games.

    The merger press release Embracer claims Cryptic will make about 700 million Swedish monies (7 million US as pottsey points out) by the end of this year.

    “ Cryptic Studios currently operates three longstanding MMOs (Neverwinter, Star Trek Online and Champions Online) with a shared life span of 25+ years. These titles generate significant profits, and Embracer expects the live Cryptic titles will continue to be strong and steady for the upcoming years. PWE Publishing has a compelling slate of upcoming games while continuing to evaluate new opportunities. Of the existing slate, PWE’s next launch is planned in 2022 with five additional releases by 2024. In calendar year 2021 the companies are estimated to generate net sales of approximately SEK 700 million. This includes some revenues from discontinued products at Cryptic.”

    Source:
    https://embracer.com/release/embracer-group-enters-into-agreement-to-acquire-perfect-world-entertainment/
    Post edited by qultuq on
  • naabal421#0722 naabal421 Member Posts: 162 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    Makes me all the more understanding about "we have to cut / sunset X-Y-Z from the game" cuz we can't afford to maintain it ... . /s
    They've never said this though?
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,732 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    qultuq wrote: »
    > @thegrandnagus1 said:
    > Not 100% I am understanding your intended point, but IMHO that revenue figure of STO is not that impressive considering
    > * that figure is over the entire lifetime of the game, not per year
    > * it's a game based on a very popular franchise/IP
    > * it's a game with gambling mechanics
    >
    >
    > By the time you shave off the percent that CBS gets and pay the staff, those earnings really aren't that high considering the above 3 points.

    Good point. 700 million is the net profit for the lifetime of the Cryptic games. The merger press release Embracer claims Cryptic will make about 700 million by the end of this year.

    “ Cryptic Studios currently operates three longstanding MMOs (Neverwinter, Star Trek Online and Champions Online) with a shared life span of 25+ years. These titles generate significant profits, and Embracer expects the live Cryptic titles will continue to be strong and steady for the upcoming years. PWE Publishing has a compelling slate of upcoming games while continuing to evaluate new opportunities. Of the existing slate, PWE’s next launch is planned in 2022 with five additional releases by 2024. In calendar year 2021 the companies are estimated to generate net sales of approximately SEK 700 million. This includes some revenues from discontinued products at Cryptic.”

    Source:
    https://embracer.com/release/embracer-group-enters-into-agreement-to-acquire-perfect-world-entertainment/
    700 million is in SEK which is around $7.6million ish dollers per year. By the time running costs are removed we get numbers that show Cryptic is healthy enough but not really that profitable at the moment.

  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,891 Arc User
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    Makes me all the more understanding about "we have to cut / sunset X-Y-Z from the game" cuz we can't afford to maintain it ... . /s
    They've never said this though?

    Yes , their favorite way of NOT saying this is "the talent or 'legacy knowledge' is no longer available" .
    You know, 'puff went the magic dragon' and such . :neutral:
    It's very natural. Happens at all the places. (not really)

    Here's Cryptic for you :
    the legacy knowledge required to maintain the Foundry at our quality standards is no longer available
    the development time and resources required to maintain the Foundry would impede on these new features and systems.

    Oh wait, i was wrong ... , they did manage to say 'resources' there ... , which means $$$ .

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/11102923






  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,965 Arc User
    Manpower is just as much of a resource to a company as money is.​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • naabal421#0722 naabal421 Member Posts: 162 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    Makes me all the more understanding about "we have to cut / sunset X-Y-Z from the game" cuz we can't afford to maintain it ... . /s
    They've never said this though?

    Yes , their favorite way of NOT saying this is "the talent or 'legacy knowledge' is no longer available" .
    You know, 'puff went the magic dragon' and such . :neutral:
    It's very natural. Happens at all the places. (not really)

    Here's Cryptic for you :
    the legacy knowledge required to maintain the Foundry at our quality standards is no longer available
    the development time and resources required to maintain the Foundry would impede on these new features and systems.

    Oh wait, i was wrong ... , they did manage to say 'resources' there ... , which means $$$ .

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/11102923
    What you posted here isn't what you originally said about closing things down due to not being able to afford it.

    Not being able to afford something means they literally don't have the money to do it. What you posted here is that they did have the money to do it, they just didn't have the knowledge of the code to do it. Which is something else entirely.

    Same thing with the latter comment about resources. Not wanting to take resources away from other content to keep the Foundry up doesn't mean you don't have the money to keep the Foundry up. It means keeping the Foundry up isn't worth the money spent doing so. Which is, again, something else entirely.

    You're treating multiple different things as the same, when they aren't. Its like saying they don't have the money to do a PVP revamp, citing that they haven't done one already as proof, when them not doing a PVP revamp has nothing to do with not having the money to do it, but rather a lack of playerbase interest in PVP to make spending that money worth it. They have the money to do it, its just worth the money to do it.
  • theanothernametheanothername Member Posts: 1,486 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    Conflicting. Embracer group does seem to be genuinely interested in building up a quality B+ branch in gaming from everything I heard in he past and experienced with their THQ branch. Its a good, no, a very good & healthy place for Cryptic to be in. Gearbox/Pitchford on the other hand is the worst though :(

    Jo Cryptic; cant you ask your bosses boss to get into the THQ umbrella? Or get your own? Or anything else?
  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,578 Arc User
    I still have a soft spot for Gearbox from Half-Life:Opposing Force :)

    Yeah, me too. OpFor was great, though I did have persistent CTD issues in the final bossfight
  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,891 Arc User
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    Makes me all the more understanding about "we have to cut / sunset X-Y-Z from the game" cuz we can't afford to maintain it ... . /s
    They've never said this though?

    Yes , their favorite way of NOT saying this is "the talent or 'legacy knowledge' is no longer available" .
    You know, 'puff went the magic dragon' and such . :neutral:
    It's very natural. Happens at all the places. (not really)

    Here's Cryptic for you :
    the legacy knowledge required to maintain the Foundry at our quality standards is no longer available
    the development time and resources required to maintain the Foundry would impede on these new features and systems.

    Oh wait, i was wrong ... , they did manage to say 'resources' there ... , which means $$$ .

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/11102923
    What you posted here isn't what you originally said about closing things down due to not being able to afford it.

    Not being able to afford something means they literally don't have the money to do it. What you posted here is that they did have the money to do it, they just didn't have the knowledge of the code to do it. Which is something else entirely.

    Same thing with the latter comment about resources. Not wanting to take resources away from other content to keep the Foundry up doesn't mean you don't have the money to keep the Foundry up. It means keeping the Foundry up isn't worth the money spent doing so. Which is, again, something else entirely.

    You're treating multiple different things as the same, when they aren't. Its like saying they don't have the money to do a PVP revamp, citing that they haven't done one already as proof, when them not doing a PVP revamp has nothing to do with not having the money to do it, but rather a lack of playerbase interest in PVP to make spending that money worth it. They have the money to do it, its just worth the money to do it.

    My dude, you've stopped having a convo with me , and started having a convo with whatever / whomever your mind conjured up .

    Or to put it in another way, you've taken two lines of text that I wrote + direct proof about what I wrote (from a Cryptic blog) and stated to read into them things that weren't there .
    I can only wish you luck with that, but that's not a game I'm going to play with you .
    You're welcome to internet-layer someone else . :smile:
  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,891 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    Manpower is just as much of a resource to a company as money is.​​

    True .
    In fact, in "company speak" , they can be one and the same , as they're at times interchangeable on a spread sheet .

    What I always found ... cryptic , about Cryptic -- was that they often (often enough to pick up on) referenced 'loss of knowledge' about game systems / functions (Foundry, PVP, the original long Borg STF's) .
    They went as far as ... Al once saying on Priority One (podcast) that they've gotten "much better" at documenting development .

    While that sounds fine ... -- it seems that training and maintaining personnel with specific know-how about certain systems was clearly an Achilles' heel for Cryptic's STO team at some point (and I'm not 100% sure that that point is totally behind them) .

    Which is why ... admittedly , I have asked myself more then once :
    How can you maintain a system when you don't know how it works exactly ?

    You're either not being truthful about 'not knowing' , or you know that it would take $$$ (i.e. time+manpower) to go through the spaghetti code and essentially 're-learn' stuff that was programmed years ago by other ppl ... -- which is why we sometimes see bugs persist for years/forever because said $$$ (i.e. time+manpower) gets allocated to other projects.

  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 3,023 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    The fact that GearBox with randy pitchford is involved makes me very concerned.
  • usscapitalusscapital Member Posts: 985 Arc User
    avoozuul wrote: »
    The fact that GearBox with randy pitchford is involved makes me very concerned.

    Well Said
    NERF NERF NERF ONLINE

    DELTA PRICE RISING
  • qziqzaqziqza Member Posts: 1,044 Arc User
    First, I will just say I am glad that they are retaining the Cryptic staff. I wouldn't wish job insecurity right before Christmas on anyone, and the team doesn't deserve that type of stress. I am happy to hear that, for now at least, things are stable at Cryptic and people don't have to worry.

    As far as how much or how little Gearbox will invest into Cryptic and specifically STO.. I'll just wait and see. Speculating does little for anyone so I'll just see how it plays out. As for the people that don't like Randy Pitchford (I am right there with you) back in October, Pitchford stepped away from the Video Game operation to concentrate more on TV/Film media. Yes, he is still the CEO of Gearbox but is not involved in day to day operations of their Video Game media. His former job is now held by a man named Steve Jones who I have seen nothing negative on.. though I'll admit, I didn't look that hard.

    Thanks Kael for the news, I am glad you and your team can continue to do your jobs and hope that Gearbox realizes the value of your studio when considering how they should use their assets. I still feel you guys deserve some extra staff, and it would be nice for you to get it.

    I hope that this will be a boon for the game and it's player base. I do however like to keep my hope and my expectations separate, so we'll see how it pans out.

    Aye, i second this in its entirety. Very happy that all seems to be 'business as normal' and hope that, at least for the workforce, that doesn't change anytime soon.

    Someone posted that..

    The optimist in them is hopeful things will work out, while the pessimist is worried it won't.

    While we are unlikely to see no change at all, I sincerely hope that for every potential negative, there is an equal and opposite positive to.. as the Deferi say.. keep all in balance.

    Peace.
    tYld1gu.gif?1
    TOS style icons used with the kind permission of irvinis.deviantart.com ©2013-2015
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    usscapital wrote: »
    avoozuul wrote: »
    The fact that GearBox with randy pitchford is involved makes me very concerned.

    Well Said

    No, it isn't because as I linked earlier, Pitchford is no longer part of the Video Game division of Gearbox. His position was filled by Steve Jones.

    I get why people don't like Pitchford, I don't like him either. But he's not a concern for us. Yes, he is still the CEO of the Company, but he is not involved in the Video Game side of the studio anymore.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 3,023 Arc User
    My concern is my own, and while I was already aware of his position change it doesn't make me much less concerned, after the disgusting things he was found out to be doing it's really not acceptable that he still has a position at all.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,108 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    ...he is not involved in the Video Game side of the studio anymore.

    I'll be honest; I know nothing about this situation.

    That said, how can you or anyone else actually know what his level of involvement is?

    Just because someone changes positions and titles "on paper" does not in any way mean they suddenly have ZERO involvement in other parts of the company.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

    og9Zoh0.jpg
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    ...he is not involved in the Video Game side of the studio anymore.

    I'll be honest; I know nothing about this situation.

    That said, how can you or anyone else actually know what his level of involvement is?

    Just because someone changes positions and titles "on paper" does not in any way mean they suddenly have ZERO involvement in other parts of the company.

    Because it was well publicized. It’s always possible that the information given online is not entirely true, but that is what was published. It’s all available for anyone to look up whenever they wish.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
This discussion has been closed.