A GT 710 is not an appropriate card for gaming and never was, even when it was a new design. It simply doesn't have the power needed for a games rasterization process.
You can find quite a few old cards on ebay that are far more appropriate for actual gaming under or around $100. Of course you've already stated you don't know anything about graphics cards so that isn't going to be helpful if you don't know what are good buys and what are bad.
A short primer. Nvidia cards use XXYY format, where the XX is the generation, like 700 series cards where your 710 lies. The YY part is the grade of the card. Anything 50+ is useful for actual games. So you might be able to get a good deal on a 970 or a 1060. A 1030 would be a bad buy, though it would surely work better than your 710.
Radeon cards are a little more confusing in their naming and more rare in any case.
Of course then you'd have to know whether you have the power to run the card, which could be a problem. If you got your system from an OEM like Dell its probably garbage, and your power supply barely runs the machine its on with no real way to upgrade it because its made in a nonstandard way for a nonstandard case design.
And you'd have to know how to install any new part properly, which may well be in doubt here. If you've got a kid or a friend who knows this stuff better, you'd be much better off going to them and having them help you out if you think you can scrape some $$ together for ugprading.
First, it's easy to tell if you're running on your integrated graphics or a descrete GPU because you will have to plug the monitor into the input of the device you are using. If you are plugged into the port on your motherboard back plate (the silver block where your USB ports are) that's your Integrated Graphics. If you have an actual GPU card, then the monitor plugs into that, so if you put in a Graphics Card but leave the monitor plugged into the Integrated port, the Card will not function.
I know that seems basic to some, but I am stating it because I have seen this mistake made a thousand times. If you add in a GPU card, you have to plug the monitor into the card instead of the Motherboard.
Now, that being said.. An Intel 4000 Series should be enough to run STO but your Card (Nvidia GT710) is approximately a 30% overall boost over the integrated graphics and that's the device you should be using. You can see a comparison between these two cards by clicking here.
If you plug in the GT710, and you connect the monitor to it and Windows does not recognize it, you simply need a driver for it. That isn't as easy as it sounds since the driver is discontinued but you can still grab the last working driver by clicking here. You will want to power your PC down, unplug the power, install your GT710 Card, move the monitor plug from the Onboard port to the port on the back of the Graphics card. Then, power up the system and you should have a display and be able to load into windows. If you load into Windows and things look bad because the card isn't recognized, then install that driver pack, reboot and you should be good. The game is fuzzy on graphics requirements as it only lists an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470 as the minimum, but the system requirements have not been updated in a very long time, so that's just not accurate anymore. Still, the GT710 should be able to get you a playable experience in Low-Med settings. The driver I linked is 64 bit as well.
One other point of confusion though, you stated in your initial post that your CPU was a Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2320 CPU. If that's the case then you are only running 2000 Series integrated graphics which is substantially worse then a GT710. Integrated Graphics are the graphics that are included in your CPU and the i5 2320 does not have Intel 4000 Series Graphics.
Ok, a couple of things here.
<snip>
One other point of confusion though, you stated in your initial post that your CPU was a Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2320 CPU. If that's the case then you are only running 2000 Series integrated graphics which is substantially worse then a GT710. Integrated Graphics are the graphics that are included in your CPU and the i5 2320 does not have Intel 4000 Series Graphics.
Either way, use the GT710.
As it comes from the factory yes HD2000, however I bought this factory reconditioned and the HD2000 was upgraded to HD3000 and a search of the computer for drivers found the HD4000. I saw it come up as a 4000 but now it just says Intel HD Graphics. any idea how to get the details, I tried properties without much luck. So at least 3000 probably 4000.
Matz
Post edited by matzdaad on
MatzDaad
Fleet: 8th Expeditionary Command
Member since 2/15/2012
Ok, a couple of things here.
<snip>
One other point of confusion though, you stated in your initial post that your CPU was a Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2320 CPU. If that's the case then you are only running 2000 Series integrated graphics which is substantially worse then a GT710. Integrated Graphics are the graphics that are included in your CPU and the i5 2320 does not have Intel 4000 Series Graphics.
Either way, use the GT710.
As it comes from the factory yes HD2000, however I bought this factory reconditioned and the HD2000 was upgraged to HD3000 and a search of the computer for drivers found the HD4000. I saw it come up as a 4000 but now it just says Intel HD Graphics. any idea how to get the details, I tried properties without much luck. So at least 3000 probably 4000.
Matz
What you are saying is not possible unless the CPU was upgraded.
The graphics are integrated, meaning they are part of the CPU. The only way to upgrade your integrated graphics is to upgrade the CPU. If you're still using the i5-2320 then you still have 2000 Series Integrated Graphics. It's possible you're using a newer driver, I would have to look at the display, but there is no way to upgrade integrated graphics while maintaining the same CPU. You can find the specifications of your CPU here.
Rather the Graphics are 2000, 3000, or even 4000 series though, the GT 710 is a better overall card. I would strongly recommend trying that again using the driver I suggested above. All of the Black Screen and other problems I have seen like this have all been with Integrated Chips. Besides the improvement gain, I believe that using the Nvidia Card will also bypass your technical issues.
I wish you luck, I hope it works and you're able to game trouble free.
Ok, a couple of things here.
<snip>
One other point of confusion though, you stated in your initial post that your CPU was a Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2320 CPU. If that's the case then you are only running 2000 Series integrated graphics which is substantially worse then a GT710. Integrated Graphics are the graphics that are included in your CPU and the i5 2320 does not have Intel 4000 Series Graphics.
Either way, use the GT710.
As it comes from the factory yes HD2000, however I bought this factory reconditioned and the HD2000 was upgraged to HD3000 and a search of the computer for drivers found the HD4000. I saw it come up as a 4000 but now it just says Intel HD Graphics. any idea how to get the details, I tried properties without much luck. So at least 3000 probably 4000.
Wait, wut?! Upgraded to HD 4000? I don't think so. Sea is right: the i5-2320 comes with the integrated Intel® HD Graphics 2000 chip. There's no upgrading those (unless you buy a whole new CPU, of course). And if you mean 'upgraded' to use a HD 4000 driver, don't do that: your Windows driver will start writing cheques your graphics card can't cash. That is not going to end well.
A GT 710 is not an appropriate card for gaming and never was, <snip>
Nvidia cards use XXYY format, where the XX is the generation, like 700 series cards where your 710 lies. The YY part is the grade of the card. Anything 50+ is useful for actual games. So you might be able to get a good deal on a 970 or a 1060.
Of course then you'd have to know whether you have the power to run the card, which could be a problem. If you got your system from an OEM like Dell its probably garbage, and your power supply barely runs the machine its on with no real way to upgrade it because its made in a nonstandard way for a nonstandard case design.
I will look into the 970 and 1060 (I assume NVIDIA)
Power supply is LITEON PS 6301 08A3 (Google gave me 300 WATTS)
MatzDaad
Fleet: 8th Expeditionary Command
Member since 2/15/2012
Ok, a couple of things here.
<snip>
One other point of confusion though, you stated in your initial post that your CPU was a Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2320 CPU. If that's the case then you are only running 2000 Series integrated graphics which is substantially worse then a GT710. Integrated Graphics are the graphics that are included in your CPU and the i5 2320 does not have Intel 4000 Series Graphics.
Either way, use the GT710.
As it comes from the factory yes HD2000, however I bought this factory reconditioned and the HD2000 was upgraged to HD3000 and a search of the computer for drivers found the HD4000. I saw it come up as a 4000 but now it just says Intel HD Graphics. any idea how to get the details, I tried properties without much luck. So at least 3000 probably 4000.
Wait, wut?! Upgraded to HD 4000? I don't think so. Sea is right: the i5-2320 comes with the integrated Intel® HD Graphics 2000 chip. There's no upgrading those (unless you buy a whole new CPU, of course). And if you mean 'upgraded' to use a HD 4000 driver, don't do that: your Windows driver will start writing cheques your graphics card can't cash. That is not going to end well.
I must have 2000 then have no idea why it said 3000...
In device manager no option to roll back driver and under HD properties/events/imformation/ I got this
Device PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0102&SUBSYS_063D1025&REV_09\3&11583659&0&10 requires further installation. ?? My ?'s
MatzDaad
Fleet: 8th Expeditionary Command
Member since 2/15/2012
The Intel HD Graphics use a unified driver arcitecture, you don't need to roll back your driver. If anything, that will cause you even more problems, I would leave the integrated graphics setup alone. You have that working, don't poke the bear.
I would work instead on getting the Nvidia Card working. And to be clear, while the GT 710 isn't a great card, I am pushing it because the other option is a 2000 series Intel Integrated system. Even though the GT 710 isn't current or a powerhouse, it's gaming performance is between 350-420% better then the Intel 2000 series.
Yes, if you can get a good deal on a GTX 970 then by all means grab it.. that's still a great card and would play stuff like STO with ease. You just have to be careful in the current hardware climate as even those GPU's are going for far more then they are worth. When it comes to an upgrade, that comes down to what you have available and what you are willing/able to pay.
What we're trying to do here is get you up and running on what you already have. Try the GT710 with the Nvidia Driver, just see how it does. If it sucks, you're just out a little time, if it works.. you can get by until GPU prices normalize and then we can talk about an upgrade.
Driver link you posted gave me"353.62-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql" (2015)
The driver I have on my desktop is "471.68-desktop-win10-win11-64bit-international-whql" (Aug 17, 2021)
Shouldn't I use the newer?
Matz
PS" When I put the 710 in earlier (no drivers yet) HD Graphics disabled, switched monitor cable to GPU and started up. Got
Gateway (press delete for BIOS, press F12 for boot menu)
Won't go to windows and will not show boot menu.
Does that tell you anything?
Post edited by matzdaad on
MatzDaad
Fleet: 8th Expeditionary Command
Member since 2/15/2012
Driver link you posted gave me"353.62-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql" (20150
The driver I have on my desktop is "471.68-desktop-win10-win11-64bit-international-whql" (Aug 17, 2021)
Shouldn't I use the newer?
Matz
PS" When I put the 710 in earlier (no drivers yet) HD Graphics disabled, switched monitor cable to GPU and started up. Got
Gateway (press delete for BIOS, press F12 for boot menu)
Won't go to windows and will not show boot menu.
Does that tell you anything?
The driver I posted was the newest one I could find for the GT710, Nvidia actually doesn’t make drivers for that card anymore. If that newer one will work, then sure.. use that, but if it doesn’t detect the card then use the link I gave you.
As for the boot, I was under the impression that you could get to Windows and Windows just didn’t recognize the card. What you’re saying is strange, it sounds like you have disabled the main boot device. I am not sure why people have told you to disable anything, but you shouldn’t have to. Go back in, re-enable whatever you disabled and try and boot again off the Graphics Card.
What you are saying sounds like you have somehow disabled the boot device for the PC, I am wondering if maybe you disabled the wrong thing. If your BIOS has a ‘Fail Safe Settings’ or something like that, then you can use that. Otherwise, just try undoing whatever you did and using the Graphics Card. There is absolutely no reason why you should have to disable the Intel Graphics to use the GPU Card. Leave them both enabled and just use the card. It does absolutely no harm to have both enabled.
Have you ever been able to get into Windows off the Graphics Card? The Card is outputting video so it doesn’t sound like it’s bad, and a Graphics Card should not cause you to not be able to boot into Windows. Just undo whatever you did in the BIOS.
Driver link you posted gave me"353.62-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql" (20150
The driver I have on my desktop is "471.68-desktop-win10-win11-64bit-international-whql" (Aug 17, 2021)
Shouldn't I use the newer?
Matz
PS" When I put the 710 in earlier (no drivers yet) HD Graphics disabled, switched monitor cable to GPU and started up. Got
Gateway (press delete for BIOS, press F12 for boot menu)
Won't go to windows and will not show boot menu.
Does that tell you anything?
Have you ever been able to get into Windows off the Graphics Card? The Card is outputting video so it doesn’t sound like it’s bad, and a Graphics Card should not cause you to not be able to boot into Windows. Just undo whatever you did in the BIOS.
I got into windows when my monitor was in the original spot, but only the 'welcome' screen out of the 710.
I have not done anything to BIOS, but I recall a 'reset to defaults' should I do that?
MatzDaad
Fleet: 8th Expeditionary Command
Member since 2/15/2012
Driver link you posted gave me"353.62-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql" (20150
The driver I have on my desktop is "471.68-desktop-win10-win11-64bit-international-whql" (Aug 17, 2021)
Shouldn't I use the newer?
Matz
PS" When I put the 710 in earlier (no drivers yet) HD Graphics disabled, switched monitor cable to GPU and started up. Got
Gateway (press delete for BIOS, press F12 for boot menu)
Won't go to windows and will not show boot menu.
Does that tell you anything?
Have you ever been able to get into Windows off the Graphics Card? The Card is outputting video so it doesn’t sound like it’s bad, and a Graphics Card should not cause you to not be able to boot into Windows. Just undo whatever you did in the BIOS.
I got into windows when my monitor was in the original spot, but only the 'welcome' screen out of the 710.
I have not done anything to BIOS, but I recall a 'reset to defaults' should I do that?
Then I don't know. There is no reason why putting in a Graphics Card and making no other changes should prevent Windows from starting. Even if the Card was bad it would just give you a black screen with no output. When you said you disabled the onboard graphics, that's done in the BIOS, so I assumed that's what you did.
Given the climate currently.. that's an.. ok deal. It's about 100% higher then it should be, but that's normal right now. If however, you can't get a GPU Card to work in your machine, it would just be wasted money. I would suggest having someone who knows something about computers look at your start up issue and try and determine why the PC doesn't start using a Graphics Card. It sounds like something Gateway built in, there might be an option you're supposed to pick, I don't know.
seaofsorrows wrote:
When you said you disabled the onboard graphics, that's done in the BIOS
I didn't disable in BIOS, I expanded Display adaptor, right clicked on Intel HD Graphics and selected 'disable'.
I rarely even look into BIOS kind of dislike it.
MatzDaad
Fleet: 8th Expeditionary Command
Member since 2/15/2012
Shut everything down and then shut down computer, restarted and hit 'delete' to BIOS
A few tabs over to the right I saw BOOT PRIORITY, navigated over hit enter. I got:
BOOT PRIORITY ORDER
EFI DEVICE
HARD DISK
CD/DVD
REMOVABLE DEVICE
LAN: IBA GE SLOT DOC...
Left without saving, booted into Win 10 (no GPU in)
What is an EFI device? And I assume this is the correct order.
Post edited by matzdaad on
MatzDaad
Fleet: 8th Expeditionary Command
Member since 2/15/2012
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Your EFI Device is our Extensible Firmware Interface, it’s where your PC stores all the boot partition information. I am not sure why it’s your primary boot device, I would try swapping #1 and #2 so that it boots Windows straight off your Hard Disk.
This is up to you, but if you ever re-install Windows, you will do so off a bootable Flash Drive. For that reason, I leave that as my #1 option, if that option isn’t present then it goes to #2 which I set as the Hard Disk. I would re-map it like this:
[1] REMOVABLE DEVICE
[2] HARD DISK
[3] CD/DVD
[4] EFI DEVICE
[5] LAN: IBA GE SLOT DOC...
I am not sure why this would matter though, this should not effect how Windows starts with a Discrete Graphics Card. The boot up should be the same with either device but it’s worth a try, it won’t hurt anything to play with the boot order.
I hate messing with BIOS, I'll replace a dozen power supplies and a dozen HDD's first.
Someone is going to have to seriously dumb-down that wikipedia article for me. I can do most of the hardware stuff
(obviously not GPU's),
Your thumb drive (removable device makes sense, if its not plugged in the computer goes to #2 the HDD.
With the 710 out the computer boots into windows, but with it in and the monitor attached to the GPU it goes to GATEWAY and just sits there (the screen is obviously larger as the logo is a good 25% smaller), but not to Win 10.
MatzDaad
Fleet: 8th Expeditionary Command
Member since 2/15/2012
Will someone who knows BIOS explain how to swap them? If it doesn't work I suppose I can swap them back.
All BIOS are different, usually it's just using the arrow keys to put them in different order. I would do removable media 1st and HDD 2nd, after that whatever you want.
Why would the GPU have a problem with EFI??
I have no idea, your PC is not behaving in a way that makes sense, but it appears it's not booting into Windows so we're trying the boot devices. If that doesn't work, I have no idea, I guess you're stuck with the integrated graphics.
Actually I can go into BIOS and try, if they don't swap I can always exit without saving.
Exactly true, don't let the BIOS intimidate you, as long as you're not changing component Voltages (which I doubt the overly limited Gateway BIOS even allows) you can't do any permanent damage to anything. Changing BIOS settings is really no big deal.
With the 710 out the computer boots into windows, but with it in and the monitor attached to the GPU it goes to GATEWAY and just sits there (the screen is obviously larger as the logo is a good 25% smaller), but not to Win 10.
Are you able to boot into safe mode or otherwise boot up your computer perhaps with the monitor plugged into your Intel on-board graphics, so as to allow you to get into Windows and then try the 710 to check for error messages, see what Windows has to say about the status of the card, or perhaps try different drivers for it?
The boot up should be the same with either device but it’s worth a try, it won’t hurt anything to play with the boot order.
So I need to swap [1] and [2]?
1.HDD
2.EFI
Will someone who knows BIOS explain how to swap them? If it doesn't work I suppose I can swap them back.
Why would the GPU have a problem with EFI??
Actually I can go into BIOS and try, if they don't swap I can always exit without saving.
(U)EFI is simply another way of booting your computer (as opposed to booting from classical BIOS). UEFI is typically meant to make booting safer. Your motherboard will come provisioned with the correct keys in the UEFI Signature database to allow Windows to boot. Currently, you won't notice any difference; but come Windows 11, which will require Secure Boot, UEFI will be mandatory.
Fascinating story, but, to paraphrase another franchise, 'These are not the boot order options you are looking for.' I was talking about the PCI-E boot order options for your graphics card. Normally, btw, those are set to 'auto', and the determination which GPU will become Device 1 will be made, simply by the GPU your monitor is connected to (unless specifically overridden). Or simply by picking the 'biggest' card available to the system. And, in case of the latter, when your motherboard detects some sort of issue with your discrete GPU, it will fall back to integrated graphics.
So, first order of business, is to hook up your discrete GPU, boot your system, press 'Del' repeatedly, and see if you can boot into BIOS with it. If so, your GT 710 is essentially working properly.
N.B. Before I go any further, disabling onboard graphics is a very bad troubleshooting step! In case your GT 710 has a problem, and your mobo can't boot with it, you will have effectively locked yourself out of your computer (and a BIOS reset/flashback will be required to get it going again). If you want to play with GPU Device order, simply pick a priority, in the BIOS, instead, but don't disable your integrated GPU!
As Sea mentioned, there are actually Windows 10 drivers for your GT 710. I found those too (but decided not to link to them, as they're unofficial, third-party drivers), but those should work. Also, don't disable your onboard graphics driver either: no need, and it will only complicate matter should the integrated GPU be the first GPU boot device, somehow.
Shut everything down and then shut down computer, restarted and hit 'delete' to BIOS
A few tabs over to the right I saw BOOT PRIORITY, navigated over hit enter. I got:
BOOT PRIORITY ORDER
EFI DEVICE
HARD DISK
CD/DVD
REMOVABLE DEVICE
LAN: IBA GE SLOT DOC...
Left without saving, booted into Win 10 (no GPU in)
After a quick Google I went back to BIOS/Boot Menu/enter.
Seems all you need to reorder is select EFI (Position 1) and press down arrow or -sign and EFI says (Position 2)
Save and exit and now I have:
HARD DISK
EFI DEVICE
CD/DVD
REMOVABLE DEVICE
LAN: IBA GE SLOT DOC...
Everything seems to boot ok, I'll retry the 710 later (stuff to do) and see if I can get into Windows.
Matz
MatzDaad
Fleet: 8th Expeditionary Command
Member since 2/15/2012
I know Arc is 32 bit but now that 32 bit STO is no longer supported as of last month...
How do you tell if your STO is 32 bit or 64 bit??
What's strange is Arc is actually 64-bit not (32-bit) despite the fact that it spawns several Arc update showing (32-bit) updates, heck even STO which I've always seen in 64-bit mode sometimes launches (32-bit) STO Launcher despite the application later switching to 64-bit.
This has been a problem since the May 25 2021 update they did and don't know why, and it's even posted continuously throughout this bug REPORT:
But do they see it who knows, part of me wonders if it's a problem since Windows 21H1 (May) Update around the same time. As I often see Discord, Arc, and yes even STO Launcher sometimes start or spawn (32-bit) as well despite the CORE applications fully supporting yes 64-bit!
Before I go any further, disabling onboard graphics is a very bad troubleshooting step!
Also, don't disable your onboard graphics driver either: no need, and it will only complicate matter should the integrated GPU be the first GPU boot device, somehow.
Going into STO in safe-mode with Intel HD enabled all I see is black with an occasional 'blink-in'.
Doing the same thing but with Intel HD disabled at least I can see. Don't really have a choice.
MatzDaad
Fleet: 8th Expeditionary Command
Member since 2/15/2012
Before I go any further, disabling onboard graphics is a very bad troubleshooting step!
Also, don't disable your onboard graphics driver either: no need, and it will only complicate matter should the integrated GPU be the first GPU boot device, somehow.
Going into STO in safe-mode with Intel HD enabled all I see is black with an occasional 'blink-in'.
Doing the same thing but with Intel HD disabled at least I can see. Don't really have a choice.
Which graphics card is Star Trek Online using if the Intel HD is disabled and the GT 710 isn't hooked up as it prevents you from being able to boot into Windows?
Before I go any further, disabling onboard graphics is a very bad troubleshooting step!
Also, don't disable your onboard graphics driver either: no need, and it will only complicate matter should the integrated GPU be the first GPU boot device, somehow.
Going into STO in safe-mode with Intel HD enabled all I see is black with an occasional 'blink-in'.
Doing the same thing but with Intel HD disabled at least I can see. Don't really have a choice.
You're not doing anything but wasting your time.
If your Integrated Graphics are your only output device and your video card is not in the system, you can't disable it. You can click Disable in the Device Manager and Windows might tell you 'yeah, ok buddy' but obviously it's not working. If it worked, your monitor would go black and you would no longer be able to use your PC. Device Manager is telling you it's doing it, but it's actually just saving you from yourself.
What you're attempting to do is render your PC unusable and you should stop doing it. The only reason your PC is working is because Windows realizes you're trying to do something you shouldn't be doing.
Again, there is absolutely no reason to disable your onboard graphics. Even if we get the GT710 working, you should leave your integrated graphics enabled. If your video card ever fails, you have a secondary display device to get back into windows. Please stop disabling things, especially if you're not sure what they are or how they work.
Before I go any further, disabling onboard graphics is a very bad troubleshooting step!
Also, don't disable your onboard graphics driver either: no need, and it will only complicate matter should the integrated GPU be the first GPU boot device, somehow.
Going into STO in safe-mode with Intel HD enabled all I see is black with an occasional 'blink-in'.
Doing the same thing but with Intel HD disabled at least I can see. Don't really have a choice.
You're not doing anything but wasting your time.
If your Integrated Graphics are your only output device and your video card is not in the system, you can't disable it. You can click Disable in the Device Manager and Windows might tell you 'yeah, ok buddy' but obviously it's not working. If it worked, your monitor would go black and you would no longer be able to use your PC. Device Manager is telling you it's doing it, but it's actually just saving you from yourself.
What you're attempting to do is render your PC unusable and you should stop doing it. The only reason your PC is working is because Windows realizes you're trying to do something you shouldn't be doing.
Again, there is absolutely no reason to disable your onboard graphics. Even if we get the GT710 working, you should leave your integrated graphics enabled. If your video card ever fails, you have a secondary display device to get back into windows. Please stop disabling things, especially if you're not sure what they are or how they work.
I tried to explain the same to him; except you said it much better.
Also, I may not look it, but I did nearly 10 years of UNIX administration at our university (as a side-job). That makes me an expert in exactly nothing per se, save to say I know my way around basic trouble-shooting steps.
So, @matzdaad, I reiterate, put back in the GT 710, boot, and try and get into the BIOS with it. That should determine whether the card is working at all. Also, your cabling is horridly unclear. So, connect your video cable to your GT 710 (DVI-D, HDMI, VGA) first, and unplug (a second?) video cable that is directly connected your integrated graphics (likely HDMI/DisplayPort at the back of your computer back plate). Typically, the BIOS will prioritize the GPU the monitor is connected to.
If your screen stays black, all the way, good chance you're hosed. Just turn off your computer then, and plug your monitor into the integrated GPU output. Boot with it. Onboard graphics should now be your primary GPU device. From there, try and install the Windows 10 drivers Sea linked you to (and hope it allows you to install them for a secondary card). Then connect monitor cable to GT 710 again (after having shut down your PC), and boot again.
Before I go any further, disabling onboard graphics is a very bad troubleshooting step!
Also, don't disable your onboard graphics driver either: no need, and it will only complicate matter should the integrated GPU be the first GPU boot device, somehow.
Going into STO in safe-mode with Intel HD enabled all I see is black with an occasional 'blink-in'.
Doing the same thing but with Intel HD disabled at least I can see. Don't really have a choice.
You're not doing anything but wasting your time.
If your Integrated Graphics are your only output device and your video card is not in the system, you can't disable it. You can click Disable in the Device Manager and Windows might tell you 'yeah, ok buddy' but obviously it's not working. If it worked, your monitor would go black and you would no longer be able to use your PC. Device Manager is telling you it's doing it, but it's actually just saving you from yourself.
What you're attempting to do is render your PC unusable and you should stop doing it. The only reason your PC is working is because Windows realizes you're trying to do something you shouldn't be doing.
Again, there is absolutely no reason to disable your onboard graphics. Even if we get the GT710 working, you should leave your integrated graphics enabled. If your video card ever fails, you have a secondary display device to get back into windows. Please stop disabling things, especially if you're not sure what they are or how they work.
I tried to explain the same to him; except you said it much better.
Also, I may not look it, but I did nearly 10 years of UNIX administration at our university (as a side-job). That makes me an expert in exactly nothing per se, save to say I know my way around basic trouble-shooting steps.
So, @matzdaad, I reiterate, put back in the GT 710, boot, and try and get into the BIOS with it. That should determine whether the card is working at all. Also, your cabling is horridly unclear. So, connect your video cable to your GT 710 (DVI-D, HDMI, VGA) first, and unplug (a second?) video cable that is directly connected your integrated graphics (likely HDMI/DisplayPort at the back of your computer back plate). Typically, the BIOS will prioritize the GPU the monitor is connected to.
If your screen stays black, all the way, good chance you're hosed. Just turn off your computer then, and plug your monitor into the integrated GPU output. Boot with it. Onboard graphics should now be your primary GPU device. From there, try and install the Windows 10 drivers Sea linked you to (and hope it allows you to install them for a secondary card). Then connect monitor cable to GT 710 again (after having shut down your PC), and boot again.
We have actually established that the video card works, for some reason though Windows will not start with the Graphics Card in the system which is something that in years of doing IT work I have never seen.
Apparently, when he starts the game using his IGP the PC loads windows fine. When he installs the GT710 and plugs the monitor into that card he starts the PC and gets a Gateway Screen that just takes him to some menu he can't get past. He can see the options on his screen, the card is working, but I cannot think of one logical reason why using a GPU instead of a IGP would stop Windows from starting. That is why we were looking at his boot order, my shot in the dark was that booting directly off the HD would cause the system to behave normally. If you have another idea, I would definitely value the input.
At this point, I think he needs someone that can assist him in person and he would be best served taking his PC somewhere to have them install the card and configure the system.
Comments
Fleet: 8th Expeditionary Command
Member since 2/15/2012
You can find quite a few old cards on ebay that are far more appropriate for actual gaming under or around $100. Of course you've already stated you don't know anything about graphics cards so that isn't going to be helpful if you don't know what are good buys and what are bad.
A short primer. Nvidia cards use XXYY format, where the XX is the generation, like 700 series cards where your 710 lies. The YY part is the grade of the card. Anything 50+ is useful for actual games. So you might be able to get a good deal on a 970 or a 1060. A 1030 would be a bad buy, though it would surely work better than your 710.
Radeon cards are a little more confusing in their naming and more rare in any case.
Of course then you'd have to know whether you have the power to run the card, which could be a problem. If you got your system from an OEM like Dell its probably garbage, and your power supply barely runs the machine its on with no real way to upgrade it because its made in a nonstandard way for a nonstandard case design.
And you'd have to know how to install any new part properly, which may well be in doubt here. If you've got a kid or a friend who knows this stuff better, you'd be much better off going to them and having them help you out if you think you can scrape some $$ together for ugprading.
First, it's easy to tell if you're running on your integrated graphics or a descrete GPU because you will have to plug the monitor into the input of the device you are using. If you are plugged into the port on your motherboard back plate (the silver block where your USB ports are) that's your Integrated Graphics. If you have an actual GPU card, then the monitor plugs into that, so if you put in a Graphics Card but leave the monitor plugged into the Integrated port, the Card will not function.
I know that seems basic to some, but I am stating it because I have seen this mistake made a thousand times. If you add in a GPU card, you have to plug the monitor into the card instead of the Motherboard.
Now, that being said.. An Intel 4000 Series should be enough to run STO but your Card (Nvidia GT710) is approximately a 30% overall boost over the integrated graphics and that's the device you should be using. You can see a comparison between these two cards by clicking here.
If you plug in the GT710, and you connect the monitor to it and Windows does not recognize it, you simply need a driver for it. That isn't as easy as it sounds since the driver is discontinued but you can still grab the last working driver by clicking here. You will want to power your PC down, unplug the power, install your GT710 Card, move the monitor plug from the Onboard port to the port on the back of the Graphics card. Then, power up the system and you should have a display and be able to load into windows. If you load into Windows and things look bad because the card isn't recognized, then install that driver pack, reboot and you should be good. The game is fuzzy on graphics requirements as it only lists an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470 as the minimum, but the system requirements have not been updated in a very long time, so that's just not accurate anymore. Still, the GT710 should be able to get you a playable experience in Low-Med settings. The driver I linked is 64 bit as well.
One other point of confusion though, you stated in your initial post that your CPU was a Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2320 CPU. If that's the case then you are only running 2000 Series integrated graphics which is substantially worse then a GT710. Integrated Graphics are the graphics that are included in your CPU and the i5 2320 does not have Intel 4000 Series Graphics.
Either way, use the GT710.
Matz
Fleet: 8th Expeditionary Command
Member since 2/15/2012
What you are saying is not possible unless the CPU was upgraded.
The graphics are integrated, meaning they are part of the CPU. The only way to upgrade your integrated graphics is to upgrade the CPU. If you're still using the i5-2320 then you still have 2000 Series Integrated Graphics. It's possible you're using a newer driver, I would have to look at the display, but there is no way to upgrade integrated graphics while maintaining the same CPU. You can find the specifications of your CPU here.
Rather the Graphics are 2000, 3000, or even 4000 series though, the GT 710 is a better overall card. I would strongly recommend trying that again using the driver I suggested above. All of the Black Screen and other problems I have seen like this have all been with Integrated Chips. Besides the improvement gain, I believe that using the Nvidia Card will also bypass your technical issues.
I wish you luck, I hope it works and you're able to game trouble free.
Wait, wut?! Upgraded to HD 4000? I don't think so. Sea is right: the i5-2320 comes with the integrated Intel® HD Graphics 2000 chip. There's no upgrading those (unless you buy a whole new CPU, of course). And if you mean 'upgraded' to use a HD 4000 driver, don't do that: your Windows driver will start writing cheques your graphics card can't cash. That is not going to end well.
I will look into the 970 and 1060 (I assume NVIDIA)
Power supply is LITEON PS 6301 08A3 (Google gave me 300 WATTS)
Fleet: 8th Expeditionary Command
Member since 2/15/2012
I must have 2000 then have no idea why it said 3000...
In device manager no option to roll back driver and under HD properties/events/imformation/ I got this
Device PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0102&SUBSYS_063D1025&REV_09\3&11583659&0&10 requires further installation. ?? My ?'s
Fleet: 8th Expeditionary Command
Member since 2/15/2012
I would work instead on getting the Nvidia Card working. And to be clear, while the GT 710 isn't a great card, I am pushing it because the other option is a 2000 series Intel Integrated system. Even though the GT 710 isn't current or a powerhouse, it's gaming performance is between 350-420% better then the Intel 2000 series.
Yes, if you can get a good deal on a GTX 970 then by all means grab it.. that's still a great card and would play stuff like STO with ease. You just have to be careful in the current hardware climate as even those GPU's are going for far more then they are worth. When it comes to an upgrade, that comes down to what you have available and what you are willing/able to pay.
What we're trying to do here is get you up and running on what you already have. Try the GT710 with the Nvidia Driver, just see how it does. If it sucks, you're just out a little time, if it works.. you can get by until GPU prices normalize and then we can talk about an upgrade.
Driver link you posted gave me"353.62-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql" (2015)
The driver I have on my desktop is "471.68-desktop-win10-win11-64bit-international-whql" (Aug 17, 2021)
Shouldn't I use the newer?
Matz
PS" When I put the 710 in earlier (no drivers yet) HD Graphics disabled, switched monitor cable to GPU and started up. Got
Won't go to windows and will not show boot menu.
Does that tell you anything?
Fleet: 8th Expeditionary Command
Member since 2/15/2012
The driver I posted was the newest one I could find for the GT710, Nvidia actually doesn’t make drivers for that card anymore. If that newer one will work, then sure.. use that, but if it doesn’t detect the card then use the link I gave you.
As for the boot, I was under the impression that you could get to Windows and Windows just didn’t recognize the card. What you’re saying is strange, it sounds like you have disabled the main boot device. I am not sure why people have told you to disable anything, but you shouldn’t have to. Go back in, re-enable whatever you disabled and try and boot again off the Graphics Card.
What you are saying sounds like you have somehow disabled the boot device for the PC, I am wondering if maybe you disabled the wrong thing. If your BIOS has a ‘Fail Safe Settings’ or something like that, then you can use that. Otherwise, just try undoing whatever you did and using the Graphics Card. There is absolutely no reason why you should have to disable the Intel Graphics to use the GPU Card. Leave them both enabled and just use the card. It does absolutely no harm to have both enabled.
Have you ever been able to get into Windows off the Graphics Card? The Card is outputting video so it doesn’t sound like it’s bad, and a Graphics Card should not cause you to not be able to boot into Windows. Just undo whatever you did in the BIOS.
I got into windows when my monitor was in the original spot, but only the 'welcome' screen out of the 710.
I have not done anything to BIOS, but I recall a 'reset to defaults' should I do that?
Fleet: 8th Expeditionary Command
Member since 2/15/2012
If I can find something like this (at about this price)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/284416669914?hash=item42388df8da:g:QlIAAOSw-45hIAX8
Fleet: 8th Expeditionary Command
Member since 2/15/2012
Then I don't know. There is no reason why putting in a Graphics Card and making no other changes should prevent Windows from starting. Even if the Card was bad it would just give you a black screen with no output. When you said you disabled the onboard graphics, that's done in the BIOS, so I assumed that's what you did.
Given the climate currently.. that's an.. ok deal. It's about 100% higher then it should be, but that's normal right now. If however, you can't get a GPU Card to work in your machine, it would just be wasted money. I would suggest having someone who knows something about computers look at your start up issue and try and determine why the PC doesn't start using a Graphics Card. It sounds like something Gateway built in, there might be an option you're supposed to pick, I don't know.
I didn't disable in BIOS, I expanded Display adaptor, right clicked on Intel HD Graphics and selected 'disable'.
I rarely even look into BIOS kind of dislike it.
Fleet: 8th Expeditionary Command
Member since 2/15/2012
A few tabs over to the right I saw BOOT PRIORITY, navigated over hit enter. I got:
BOOT PRIORITY ORDER
- EFI DEVICE
- HARD DISK
- CD/DVD
- REMOVABLE DEVICE
- LAN: IBA GE SLOT DOC...
Left without saving, booted into Win 10 (no GPU in)What is an EFI device? And I assume this is the correct order.
Fleet: 8th Expeditionary Command
Member since 2/15/2012
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
This is up to you, but if you ever re-install Windows, you will do so off a bootable Flash Drive. For that reason, I leave that as my #1 option, if that option isn’t present then it goes to #2 which I set as the Hard Disk. I would re-map it like this:
[1] REMOVABLE DEVICE
[2] HARD DISK
[3] CD/DVD
[4] EFI DEVICE
[5] LAN: IBA GE SLOT DOC...
I am not sure why this would matter though, this should not effect how Windows starts with a Discrete Graphics Card. The boot up should be the same with either device but it’s worth a try, it won’t hurt anything to play with the boot order.
Someone is going to have to seriously dumb-down that wikipedia article for me. I can do most of the hardware stuff
(obviously not GPU's),
Your thumb drive (removable device makes sense, if its not plugged in the computer goes to #2 the HDD.
With the 710 out the computer boots into windows, but with it in and the monitor attached to the GPU it goes to GATEWAY and just sits there (the screen is obviously larger as the logo is a good 25% smaller), but not to Win 10.
Fleet: 8th Expeditionary Command
Member since 2/15/2012
1.HDD
2.EFI
Will someone who knows BIOS explain how to swap them? If it doesn't work I suppose I can swap them back.
Why would the GPU have a problem with EFI??
Actually I can go into BIOS and try, if they don't swap I can always exit without saving.
Fleet: 8th Expeditionary Command
Member since 2/15/2012
All BIOS are different, usually it's just using the arrow keys to put them in different order. I would do removable media 1st and HDD 2nd, after that whatever you want.
I have no idea, your PC is not behaving in a way that makes sense, but it appears it's not booting into Windows so we're trying the boot devices. If that doesn't work, I have no idea, I guess you're stuck with the integrated graphics.
Exactly true, don't let the BIOS intimidate you, as long as you're not changing component Voltages (which I doubt the overly limited Gateway BIOS even allows) you can't do any permanent damage to anything. Changing BIOS settings is really no big deal.
Are you able to boot into safe mode or otherwise boot up your computer perhaps with the monitor plugged into your Intel on-board graphics, so as to allow you to get into Windows and then try the 710 to check for error messages, see what Windows has to say about the status of the card, or perhaps try different drivers for it?
(U)EFI is simply another way of booting your computer (as opposed to booting from classical BIOS). UEFI is typically meant to make booting safer. Your motherboard will come provisioned with the correct keys in the UEFI Signature database to allow Windows to boot. Currently, you won't notice any difference; but come Windows 11, which will require Secure Boot, UEFI will be mandatory.
Fascinating story, but, to paraphrase another franchise, 'These are not the boot order options you are looking for.' I was talking about the PCI-E boot order options for your graphics card. Normally, btw, those are set to 'auto', and the determination which GPU will become Device 1 will be made, simply by the GPU your monitor is connected to (unless specifically overridden). Or simply by picking the 'biggest' card available to the system. And, in case of the latter, when your motherboard detects some sort of issue with your discrete GPU, it will fall back to integrated graphics.
So, first order of business, is to hook up your discrete GPU, boot your system, press 'Del' repeatedly, and see if you can boot into BIOS with it. If so, your GT 710 is essentially working properly.
N.B. Before I go any further, disabling onboard graphics is a very bad troubleshooting step! In case your GT 710 has a problem, and your mobo can't boot with it, you will have effectively locked yourself out of your computer (and a BIOS reset/flashback will be required to get it going again). If you want to play with GPU Device order, simply pick a priority, in the BIOS, instead, but don't disable your integrated GPU!
As Sea mentioned, there are actually Windows 10 drivers for your GT 710. I found those too (but decided not to link to them, as they're unofficial, third-party drivers), but those should work. Also, don't disable your onboard graphics driver either: no need, and it will only complicate matter should the integrated GPU be the first GPU boot device, somehow.
After a quick Google I went back to BIOS/Boot Menu/enter.
Seems all you need to reorder is select EFI (Position 1) and press down arrow or -sign and EFI says (Position 2)
Save and exit and now I have:
Everything seems to boot ok, I'll retry the 710 later (stuff to do) and see if I can get into Windows.
Matz
Fleet: 8th Expeditionary Command
Member since 2/15/2012
What's strange is Arc is actually 64-bit not (32-bit) despite the fact that it spawns several Arc update showing (32-bit) updates, heck even STO which I've always seen in 64-bit mode sometimes launches (32-bit) STO Launcher despite the application later switching to 64-bit.
This has been a problem since the May 25 2021 update they did and don't know why, and it's even posted continuously throughout this bug REPORT:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1261957/since-5-25-update-just-black-screen-or-crashes
But do they see it who knows, part of me wonders if it's a problem since Windows 21H1 (May) Update around the same time. As I often see Discord, Arc, and yes even STO Launcher sometimes start or spawn (32-bit) as well despite the CORE applications fully supporting yes 64-bit!
Doing the same thing but with Intel HD disabled at least I can see. Don't really have a choice.
Fleet: 8th Expeditionary Command
Member since 2/15/2012
Which graphics card is Star Trek Online using if the Intel HD is disabled and the GT 710 isn't hooked up as it prevents you from being able to boot into Windows?
You're not doing anything but wasting your time.
If your Integrated Graphics are your only output device and your video card is not in the system, you can't disable it. You can click Disable in the Device Manager and Windows might tell you 'yeah, ok buddy' but obviously it's not working. If it worked, your monitor would go black and you would no longer be able to use your PC. Device Manager is telling you it's doing it, but it's actually just saving you from yourself.
What you're attempting to do is render your PC unusable and you should stop doing it. The only reason your PC is working is because Windows realizes you're trying to do something you shouldn't be doing.
Again, there is absolutely no reason to disable your onboard graphics. Even if we get the GT710 working, you should leave your integrated graphics enabled. If your video card ever fails, you have a secondary display device to get back into windows. Please stop disabling things, especially if you're not sure what they are or how they work.
I tried to explain the same to him; except you said it much better.
Also, I may not look it, but I did nearly 10 years of UNIX administration at our university (as a side-job). That makes me an expert in exactly nothing per se, save to say I know my way around basic trouble-shooting steps.
So, @matzdaad, I reiterate, put back in the GT 710, boot, and try and get into the BIOS with it. That should determine whether the card is working at all. Also, your cabling is horridly unclear. So, connect your video cable to your GT 710 (DVI-D, HDMI, VGA) first, and unplug (a second?) video cable that is directly connected your integrated graphics (likely HDMI/DisplayPort at the back of your computer back plate). Typically, the BIOS will prioritize the GPU the monitor is connected to.
If your screen stays black, all the way, good chance you're hosed. Just turn off your computer then, and plug your monitor into the integrated GPU output. Boot with it. Onboard graphics should now be your primary GPU device. From there, try and install the Windows 10 drivers Sea linked you to (and hope it allows you to install them for a secondary card). Then connect monitor cable to GT 710 again (after having shut down your PC), and boot again.
We have actually established that the video card works, for some reason though Windows will not start with the Graphics Card in the system which is something that in years of doing IT work I have never seen.
Apparently, when he starts the game using his IGP the PC loads windows fine. When he installs the GT710 and plugs the monitor into that card he starts the PC and gets a Gateway Screen that just takes him to some menu he can't get past. He can see the options on his screen, the card is working, but I cannot think of one logical reason why using a GPU instead of a IGP would stop Windows from starting. That is why we were looking at his boot order, my shot in the dark was that booting directly off the HD would cause the system to behave normally. If you have another idea, I would definitely value the input.
At this point, I think he needs someone that can assist him in person and he would be best served taking his PC somewhere to have them install the card and configure the system.