Being of the opinion that something is okay as long as it does not affect you personally is a selfish attitude.
That is ONLY true if you are talking about something that is actually HARMFUL to others. Yes, not caring about a problem that effects other people just because it doesn't effect you is selfish; I agree.
But if something does not actually harm ANYONE, AT ALL, then there is nothing "selfish" about not caring about it. In the specific example of the rocket event that you are apparently so upset about, someone not participating does not effect you or ANYONE else negatively, AT ALL.
In that specific circumstance, yes it IS silly to let it upset you so much.
As far as other events where participation actually MATTERS, I agree each person should be doing their part.
for whatever reason last year i was getting bugged if i didn't find all 3 parts of the rocket. so this year i find one of each part then go out for a smoke.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Setting bugs aside for the moment, I think that if you're going to do a TFO then you should put in the effort to do it, and if you don't even try, you shouldn't get the rewards. (In the case of this TFO, if I was making it, I would want a player to at least get one part of each type and not just stand around doing nothing in order to get the reward.)
I also think it might encourage more participation from some people if there were variable rewards depending on how your rocket does. (I don't think that the part quality has no effect on the rockets flight, but the random factor may be a bit much as is.) Ultimately I don't know what capabilities and limitations the TFO designers have, so it's possible they may not be able to make AFK penalties that are specific to this TFO without major work.
As far as the bug mentioned, I've never seen it. But having read posts here, if I encountered it and was the one bugged, I would keep gathering parts and adjust parts. And I'd report the bug so I could be sure that they actually know it exists. I won't fault someone who doesn't participate if they are bugged though. (I think I've seen one occasion where a person apparently failed to get into the TFO so there was a blank name in the list. As I recall, that rocket exploded right at launch.)
And I know that the AFK penalties don't always work right. On one occasion, during a Sompek event, I seemingly was joining a game in progress, (I could hear it) but by the time the loading screen was done, the event was over, and I got an AFK penalty even though I never got the chance to do anything. (I reported that as a bug at the time, suggesting that they not have people join in-progress events like that. Don't know if anything came of that, but I haven't encountered a similar situation since then.)
I've also seen that the TFO system can be more forgiving then I expected, when I've had my internet die on me right when going into a TFO/Red Alert but managed to get back on and get back in before it ended so I could actually contribute. (Router probably was rebooting after an automatic update or something, given the time I was playing.)
The only way there will be any type of punishment for those that AFK on purpose in a TFO is if/when Cryptic deems it a problem that the vast majority of the player base wants addressed. And, being that it’s ftp I don’t personally see the issue being resolved anytime soon. It sucks that there are those that don’t “play in the spirit” but that’s unfortunately a by-product of life. Sad part is reading some of these forum comments. Whether or not it “hurts” isn’t the issue. It’s about the spirit of camaraderie of players working together that’s the issue. We’re all supposed to to join together to complete a team event. If you’re not going to be a team player, it’d be nice if they just stay away. Since we don’t have the mechanisms in place, we gotta suffer and deal unfortunately.
The only way there will be any type of punishment for those that AFK on purpose in a TFO is if/when Cryptic deems it a problem that the vast majority of the player base wants addressed. And, being that it’s ftp I don’t personally see the issue being resolved anytime soon. It sucks that there are those that don’t “play in the spirit” but that’s unfortunately a by-product of life. Sad part is reading some of these forum comments. Whether or not it “hurts” isn’t the issue. It’s about the spirit of camaraderie of players working together that’s the issue. We’re all supposed to to join together to complete a team event. If you’re not going to be a team player, it’d be nice if they just stay away. Since we don’t have the mechanisms in place, we gotta suffer and deal unfortunately.
This is such an interesting take on a queue that it's not actually a "team event" by any means.
Every player search parts for them, only.
Every player assemble said parts for them, only.
Every player watch their own rocket going off, with no impact from others whatsoever.
So, to talk about the "spirit of camaraderie of players working together" for an event such as this one makes absolutely no sense.
And really, while I may have at some point thought that if you don't do the work you shouldn't get rewarded, I've since changed my mind because, as others have said multiple times already: this is just a time gated queue that goes on regardless of whether you do something or not. Not even the rockets flight reflect the effort you make, because you can have an all purple rocket exploding just off the ramp while a green one goes all the way up to "victory".
On top of that, people actually searching for parts makes it more difficult for everyone else in the queue with them, so there's even less "spirit of camaraderie of players working together" because they aren't actually working together. Quite the opposite, in fact.
In short: having people not supporting a team in a proper queue is not ideal, but coming to the forums to whine about people doing nothing in a queue where not only it doesn't matter, but it makes it easier for those that do something is, quite frankly, idiotic.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
The only way there will be any type of punishment for those that AFK on purpose in a TFO is if/when Cryptic deems it a problem that the vast majority of the player base wants addressed. And, being that it’s ftp I don’t personally see the issue being resolved anytime soon. It sucks that there are those that don’t “play in the spirit” but that’s unfortunately a by-product of life. Sad part is reading some of these forum comments. Whether or not it “hurts” isn’t the issue. It’s about the spirit of camaraderie of players working together that’s the issue. We’re all supposed to to join together to complete a team event. If you’re not going to be a team player, it’d be nice if they just stay away. Since we don’t have the mechanisms in place, we gotta suffer and deal unfortunately.
This is such an interesting take on a queue that it's not actually a "team event" by any means.
Every player search parts for them, only.
Every player assemble said parts for them, only.
Every player watch their own rocket going off, with no impact from others whatsoever.
So, to talk about the "spirit of camaraderie of players working together" for an event such as this one makes absolutely no sense.
And really, while I may have at some point thought that if you don't do the work you shouldn't get rewarded, I've since changed my mind because, as others have said multiple times already: this is just a time gated queue that goes on regardless of whether you do something or not. Not even the rockets flight reflect the effort you make, because you can have an all purple rocket exploding just off the ramp while a green one goes all the way up to "victory".
On top of that, people actually searching for parts makes it more difficult for everyone else in the queue with them, so there's even less "spirit of camaraderie of players working together" because they aren't actually working together. Quite the opposite, in fact.
In short: having people not supporting a team in a proper queue is not ideal, but coming to the forums to whine about people doing nothing in a queue where not only it doesn't matter, but it makes it easier for those that do something is, quite frankly, idiotic.
It makes things awkward when people are referring to building rockets, a specific event TFO, and TFO's in general all under one roof and in one thread.
What applies to a combat mission isn't necessarily applicable to building rockets or even the event TFO.
Except that's not true. I've had rockets with 2 purples and a blue that only scored 26. One of those was today. It was massively outscored (into the 200s) by someone who had one blue and two green.
That *should* be true, but it isn't.
I think RNG is more of a factor then it should be, but I'm sure it's not the only factor. In the TFO I just did a bit ago, I saw the bug for the first time. The game was fine for me, but my character was listed twice and from what I saw the person who was bugged didn't put in as much of an effort. Someone else also didn't put in much effort. (They never even found a hull part.) And the last person and I did put an effort into it. The bugged player and the one who didn't put much effort into it scored less then 50. I came in second, (think I had two purple and one blue part) and the final player came in first with an all purple rocket.
I have had an all purple rocket take off and immediately explode before, I chalk that up to a really bad RNG result. (Like rolling 1 on 1d20 in D&D.)
It makes things awkward when people are referring to building rockets, a specific event TFO, and TFO's in general all under one roof and in one thread.
What applies to a combat mission isn't necessarily applicable to building rockets or even the event TFO.
Absolutely right!
The rocket building is not your typical queue. While I personally don’t condone the AFK approach outside of premade groups where everyone agrees.. this queue is an exception. As others pointed out, it’s nothing but a time gate, there is no teamwork of any type to be had.. getting upset because someone AFK’s seems silly.
It is important to establish this distinction though, excellent point.
It makes things awkward when people are referring to building rockets, a specific event TFO, and TFO's in general all under one roof and in one thread.
What applies to a combat mission isn't necessarily applicable to building rockets or even the event TFO.
Absolutely right!
The rocket building is not your typical queue. While I personally don’t condone the AFK approach outside of premade groups where everyone agrees.. this queue is an exception. As others pointed out, it’s nothing but a time gate, there is no teamwork of any type to be had.. getting upset because someone AFK’s seems silly.
It is important to establish this distinction though, excellent point.
100% agreed with both.
This is not a normal queue and should be treated as such.
If we want to, once again!, discuss the merit of the current AFK penalty system while trying to come up with other possible solutions, by all means. We just had a thread about this, but it's always interesting to see new points of view on the situation.
But for this queue? Nah. They're not hurting anyone. On the contrary, considering the nature of the queue one could argue they are playing as intended.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
It makes things awkward when people are referring to building rockets, a specific event TFO, and TFO's in general all under one roof and in one thread.
What applies to a combat mission isn't necessarily applicable to building rockets or even the event TFO.
Take it up with the OP. He is the one that decided to lead with the rocket example, so he is 100% to "blame" for people talking about that, not the people replying to what he said.
In the rocket event, for instance: Players should be required to gather at least one of each part or be disqualified. These losers just stand by their table and wait until it's over.
Here is the thing: both yesterday and today when I queued up for the rocket event I couldn't even participate because good ole Cryptic hasn't seen fit to fix this bug:
So until Cryptic bothers to fix things like this, you can take your post and...do something with it
I agree. The event (the rocket launch event) is bugged and lucky if you don't get a glitch at all. No need to go after people until this is FULLY fixed. Better to do some research before accusing others and direct the fault where it lays.
People are always easily flamed before actually reading OLDER posts. The rocket event has been bugged for ages and has not been fixed like some other maps in the game. This nothing new and not a disqualification but a glitch.
I have a new PC with all new gadgets and this morning all Players doing the rocket event were shown as "000000"....ridiculous to say the least. I got glitched as well and could not pick up any junk after my first one. Luckily I was able to make it up during the random upgrades....even that is glitched at times.
Look even the forums are glitched here. Everytime I tried to sign in...takes me to ARC then it does nothing to get in the forums. This is a late bug but just shows that STO is a glitched game. A way of life so to speak. If one does not understand its handicaps don't ask don't flame others. We have grown to play STO "as it is" and hear the same posts year after year with a new group of players. Perhaps an FCT might be helpful.
To be honest, it's probably not "worth" the development time to fix this (unless the fix were VERY simple...in which case you would assume it would be done already).
I mean, this isn't something that is effecting their bottom line in any way. The goal of the event is to get people to log in every day, which it does. And since players still get credit for the event even when bugged, that's all the players really care about.
So leaving it as is basically works for both the devs and the players, I guess
Look even the forums are glitched here. Everytime I tried to sign in...takes me to ARC then it does nothing to get in the forums. This is a late bug but just shows that STO is a glitched game. A way of life so to speak. If one does not understand its handicaps don't ask don't flame others. We have grown to play STO "as it is" and hear the same posts year after year with a new group of players. Perhaps an FCT might be helpful.
As far as the forums go, trouble logging in could be due to anti-tracking systems working too well. (And Cryptic doesn't make the forum software, they just use it, so forum issues have nothing to do with game issues.)
Sort of tired seeing the slackers join events and not do anything but stand there or sit there in a ship and not participate while the rest of the team carries the weight. There should be some minimums in place that a player must achieve or not receive credit for the mission.
In the rocket event, for instance: Players should be required to gather at least one of each part or be disqualified. These losers just stand by their table and wait until it's over.
In space missions, you should need to fly a certain distance and do a minimum amount of damage.
Original Poster, try doing what you just said. Stand in this TFO and do nothing and see what happens. There has been a AFK disqualification and time out penalty on this TFO for at least the past couple of years as far as I know. Had it last year for sure I do know.
Look even the forums are glitched here. Everytime I tried to sign in...takes me to ARC then it does nothing to get in the forums. This is a late bug but just shows that STO is a glitched game. A way of life so to speak. If one does not understand its handicaps don't ask don't flame others. We have grown to play STO "as it is" and hear the same posts year after year with a new group of players. Perhaps an FCT might be helpful.
As far as the forums go, trouble logging in could be due to anti-tracking systems working too well. (And Cryptic doesn't make the forum software, they just use it, so forum issues have nothing to do with game issues.)
They might not make it but surely they "own" it as theirs. Anything buggy you "own" and do not resolve still yours. My point being is that it is Ok and we have to come to live with it.
Comments
That is ONLY true if you are talking about something that is actually HARMFUL to others. Yes, not caring about a problem that effects other people just because it doesn't effect you is selfish; I agree.
But if something does not actually harm ANYONE, AT ALL, then there is nothing "selfish" about not caring about it. In the specific example of the rocket event that you are apparently so upset about, someone not participating does not effect you or ANYONE else negatively, AT ALL.
In that specific circumstance, yes it IS silly to let it upset you so much.
As far as other events where participation actually MATTERS, I agree each person should be doing their part.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Did you mean @darkbladejk?
Nope. I'll PM you the details
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I also think it might encourage more participation from some people if there were variable rewards depending on how your rocket does. (I don't think that the part quality has no effect on the rockets flight, but the random factor may be a bit much as is.) Ultimately I don't know what capabilities and limitations the TFO designers have, so it's possible they may not be able to make AFK penalties that are specific to this TFO without major work.
As far as the bug mentioned, I've never seen it. But having read posts here, if I encountered it and was the one bugged, I would keep gathering parts and adjust parts. And I'd report the bug so I could be sure that they actually know it exists. I won't fault someone who doesn't participate if they are bugged though. (I think I've seen one occasion where a person apparently failed to get into the TFO so there was a blank name in the list. As I recall, that rocket exploded right at launch.)
And I know that the AFK penalties don't always work right. On one occasion, during a Sompek event, I seemingly was joining a game in progress, (I could hear it) but by the time the loading screen was done, the event was over, and I got an AFK penalty even though I never got the chance to do anything. (I reported that as a bug at the time, suggesting that they not have people join in-progress events like that. Don't know if anything came of that, but I haven't encountered a similar situation since then.)
I've also seen that the TFO system can be more forgiving then I expected, when I've had my internet die on me right when going into a TFO/Red Alert but managed to get back on and get back in before it ended so I could actually contribute. (Router probably was rebooting after an automatic update or something, given the time I was playing.)
This is such an interesting take on a queue that it's not actually a "team event" by any means.
Every player search parts for them, only.
Every player assemble said parts for them, only.
Every player watch their own rocket going off, with no impact from others whatsoever.
So, to talk about the "spirit of camaraderie of players working together" for an event such as this one makes absolutely no sense.
And really, while I may have at some point thought that if you don't do the work you shouldn't get rewarded, I've since changed my mind because, as others have said multiple times already: this is just a time gated queue that goes on regardless of whether you do something or not. Not even the rockets flight reflect the effort you make, because you can have an all purple rocket exploding just off the ramp while a green one goes all the way up to "victory".
On top of that, people actually searching for parts makes it more difficult for everyone else in the queue with them, so there's even less "spirit of camaraderie of players working together" because they aren't actually working together. Quite the opposite, in fact.
In short: having people not supporting a team in a proper queue is not ideal, but coming to the forums to whine about people doing nothing in a queue where not only it doesn't matter, but it makes it easier for those that do something is, quite frankly, idiotic.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
10/10
Well said on all points.
This thread is silly.
What applies to a combat mission isn't necessarily applicable to building rockets or even the event TFO.
I think RNG is more of a factor then it should be, but I'm sure it's not the only factor. In the TFO I just did a bit ago, I saw the bug for the first time. The game was fine for me, but my character was listed twice and from what I saw the person who was bugged didn't put in as much of an effort. Someone else also didn't put in much effort. (They never even found a hull part.) And the last person and I did put an effort into it. The bugged player and the one who didn't put much effort into it scored less then 50. I came in second, (think I had two purple and one blue part) and the final player came in first with an all purple rocket.
I have had an all purple rocket take off and immediately explode before, I chalk that up to a really bad RNG result. (Like rolling 1 on 1d20 in D&D.)
Absolutely right!
The rocket building is not your typical queue. While I personally don’t condone the AFK approach outside of premade groups where everyone agrees.. this queue is an exception. As others pointed out, it’s nothing but a time gate, there is no teamwork of any type to be had.. getting upset because someone AFK’s seems silly.
It is important to establish this distinction though, excellent point.
100% agreed with both.
This is not a normal queue and should be treated as such.
If we want to, once again!, discuss the merit of the current AFK penalty system while trying to come up with other possible solutions, by all means. We just had a thread about this, but it's always interesting to see new points of view on the situation.
But for this queue? Nah. They're not hurting anyone. On the contrary, considering the nature of the queue one could argue they are playing as intended.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Take it up with the OP. He is the one that decided to lead with the rocket example, so he is 100% to "blame" for people talking about that, not the people replying to what he said.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I agree. The event (the rocket launch event) is bugged and lucky if you don't get a glitch at all. No need to go after people until this is FULLY fixed. Better to do some research before accusing others and direct the fault where it lays.
I have a new PC with all new gadgets and this morning all Players doing the rocket event were shown as "000000"....ridiculous to say the least. I got glitched as well and could not pick up any junk after my first one. Luckily I was able to make it up during the random upgrades....even that is glitched at times.
Look even the forums are glitched here. Everytime I tried to sign in...takes me to ARC then it does nothing to get in the forums. This is a late bug but just shows that STO is a glitched game. A way of life so to speak. If one does not understand its handicaps don't ask don't flame others. We have grown to play STO "as it is" and hear the same posts year after year with a new group of players. Perhaps an FCT might be helpful.
Original STO beta tester.
I mean, this isn't something that is effecting their bottom line in any way. The goal of the event is to get people to log in every day, which it does. And since players still get credit for the event even when bugged, that's all the players really care about.
So leaving it as is basically works for both the devs and the players, I guess
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
As far as the forums go, trouble logging in could be due to anti-tracking systems working too well. (And Cryptic doesn't make the forum software, they just use it, so forum issues have nothing to do with game issues.)
Original Poster, try doing what you just said. Stand in this TFO and do nothing and see what happens. There has been a AFK disqualification and time out penalty on this TFO for at least the past couple of years as far as I know. Had it last year for sure I do know.
They might not make it but surely they "own" it as theirs. Anything buggy you "own" and do not resolve still yours. My point being is that it is Ok and we have to come to live with it.
Original STO beta tester.
https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/mmbyvo/when_someone_else_does_all_the_work_for_you/
Original STO beta tester.
As you can see, both myself and someone else got duplicated, meaning 2 other players don't see their own stats.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008