I think the next specialization should be martial arts based. You could have a branch of several styles of martial arts, from taekwondo to jiu jitsu, maybe some Krav Maga(the Israeli martial art) or mixed martial arts. Maybe have a mechanic where if you wanted you could lock out your second weapon slot and use melee attacks there or recieve some kind of stand in 'weapon' for different martial arts styles. Maybe have something like the cyclic modulation weapons that change energy type only for this it changes martial arts styles. If not a specialization then maybe they could be regular weapons like 'Krav Maga mk 1' or 'jiu jitsu mk x'. The rarities could be connected to various forms in a certain style. For example a common quality 'Taekwondo mk I' could use forms for a white belt in taekwondo, an uncommon version could use blue belt forms all the way up to epic versions using black belt forms.
Well martial arts that focus on redirects or throws will probably be more or less impossible with STO engine as it is now as IIRC STO is not capable of doing synced movements between 2 3D objects.
Now I'm not against a martial arts based kits or specialization possibly with more moves then the current unarmed melee gives, however I'd keep it "generic" rather then naming any specific styles as that way Cryptic doesn't have mocap masters of various styles to get moves correct as you can't really say the moves don't fit that style as there's no specific style.
Also using white belt techniques on an actual battle is called "getting beat up" as those don't really work against opponents that are trying to kill you and thus don't follow the rules, there's a reason it's said that best self defense is not get into a fight in the first place.
I think in order for this to happen, they need to rework melee to be viable against ranged opponents that keep retreating. The main thing that needs to change is the fact that initiating a melee attack roots you until the attack animation finishes. This basically makes melee completely useless in most ground combat.
Sounds like a lot of animation work. From what I understand, there was a bit of negotiation just to get the Temer's wings to animate(and getting the guns to animate/rotate was a no-go).
Personally, I'd rather see them add stuff like Vulcan and Andorian martial arts instead of modern human styles. Even stuff like Sulu's Fencing from TOS/JJTrek or the iconic Starfleet 2-handed fist fighting style would be nice additions.
Sounds like a lot of animation work. From what I understand, there was a bit of negotiation just to get the Temer's wings to animate(and getting the guns to animate/rotate was a no-go).
Personally, I'd rather see them add stuff like Vulcan and Andorian martial arts instead of modern human styles. Even stuff like Sulu's Fencing from TOS/JJTrek or the iconic Starfleet 2-handed fist fighting style would be nice additions.
Simple punches and kicks shouldn't be too much of an issue the problem with animation comes if you include redirects, grapples or throws as those demand rather complex sync animations especially due the size difference STO characters can have, since you can have a around 1 meter tall alien gen character fight a nearly 3 meters tall Gorn and the martial arts animations would still have to look smooth and intentional.
Simple kicks and punches can be done with mocap so they're not as big of an issue though obviously even that's not as easy as people might think as you still need to clean up the mocap data.
Punch, palm strike, dropkick, roundhouse kick/sweep are already in the game. That's not more animations than actual melee weapons have, maybe a few combos and you would be good. I think waiting for throws and fluid, synced animations is, without being rude, illusionary. STO is simply not the game/engine that can handle this.
EDIT: Psionic/Telekinetic blasts could be included and yes, absolutely the double-fisted-overhead punch. Next to the Kirk-missile-dropkick the most iconic Star Trek martial art!
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I think the next specialization should be martial arts based. You could have a branch of several styles of martial arts, from taekwondo to jiu jitsu, maybe some Krav Maga(the Israeli martial art) or mixed martial arts. Maybe have a mechanic where if you wanted you could lock out your second weapon slot and use melee attacks there or recieve some kind of stand in 'weapon' for different martial arts styles. Maybe have something like the cyclic modulation weapons that change energy type only for this it changes martial arts styles. If not a specialization then maybe they could be regular weapons like 'Krav Maga mk 1' or 'jiu jitsu mk x'. The rarities could be connected to various forms in a certain style. For example a common quality 'Taekwondo mk I' could use forms for a white belt in taekwondo, an uncommon version could use blue belt forms all the way up to epic versions using black belt forms.
Whilst I applaud the suggestion, it's completely unworkable. Keep it generic. A few punches and kicks, like we already have are fine. What you see on-screen mostly won't work in a real-life scenario. "If it looks fancy, it's not going to work"....not just my saying (after 30 years in martial arts, I'm entitled to say so ), but the saying of any traditional martial artist ever. How can you tell a punch is from a particular style? You can't, because technically they are not. Show me a 'unique' Krav-Maga or BJJ technique....you can't, simply because they've been around for centuries already, Krav and BJJ haven't. The primary goal of a martial art is to kill 'efficiently', not to spend 10 minutes in an epic dance in a vain hope of knocking them out. Oh, and the traditional American response....pull out their gun and shoot!
And you're missing the main thing Star Trek brings us.....technology! Whilst fights do happen in Star Trek....they are often in scenarios where technology is not available; where it is, there is a swift end.
I could go about such a system like this, but things like differentiating about what 'belt level' a technique should is folly. Different styles within styles have different ideas of what 'quality' is. This would open a whole can of worms the Dev's really wouldn't want to get into, considering the 'sportification' of most martial arts, removing effectiveness for a gymnastic show.
Leave it be.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
Punch, palm strike, dropkick, roundhouse kick/sweep are already in the game. That's not more animations than actual melee weapons have, maybe a few combos and you would be good. I think waiting for throws and fluid, synced animations is, without being rude, illusionary. STO is simply not the game/engine that can handle this.
EDIT: Psionic/Telekinetic blasts could be included and yes, absolutely the double-fisted-overhead punch. Next to the Kirk-missile-dropkick the most iconic Star Trek martial art!
Telekinetic blast already exist as a trait, this one, my main uses it as her species is both telepathic and telekinetic (and also my own invention using the alien gen option).
Those Kirk based attacks should only be added if they also gave you a ripped shirt and massive boost to unarmed attacks while your shirt is ripped
Punch, palm strike, dropkick, roundhouse kick/sweep are already in the game. That's not more animations than actual melee weapons have, maybe a few combos and you would be good. I think waiting for throws and fluid, synced animations is, without being rude, illusionary. STO is simply not the game/engine that can handle this.
EDIT: Psionic/Telekinetic blasts could be included and yes, absolutely the double-fisted-overhead punch. Next to the Kirk-missile-dropkick the most iconic Star Trek martial art!
Telekinetic blast already exist as a trait, this one, my main uses it as her species is both telepathic and telekinetic (and also my own invention using the alien gen option).
Those Kirk based attacks should only be added if they also gave you a ripped shirt and massive boost to unarmed attacks while your shirt is ripped
I use the the telekinetic blast a lot too, all my Vorta have it (and some of my aliens) since the visuals came from Eris's telekinetic attack in DS9.
Telekinetic blast already exist as a trait, this one, my main uses it as her species is both telepathic and telekinetic (and also my own invention using the alien gen option).
Unfortunately, this trait is not right on my Remans, as the Wiki says. It is not an active, damaging trait, maybe because Remans have Mind Drain.
Well I was thinking of matching the belts with the rarities just on a mechanical level. Each rarity adds a melee attack(like stacking passive abilities with set bonuses). Maybe tie the combos to a style if they go the 'weapon' route. Maybe the common quality could be just a punch, uncommon could add a kick, rare could add a special kick (i.e. roundhouse, side, etc), very rare could be some kind of throw, ultra rare a fast combo and epic could have an option for if you sneak up on an enemy the normal options change to snapping the neck, or an otherwise a lethal combo.
Or instead of a weapons slot have it be a personal ground trait that modifies standard melee combos based on a style. Taekwondo for example could have more kick combos, Krav Maga could use combinations of aikido, boxing, wrestling, judo, and karate moves, and with that style since it is particularly lethal a certain combo if executed properly could critically hit and kill an enemy in a few moves.
Of course in a character could only really use these on other humaniod species (Vulcan, Klingon, Cardassian, Orion etc) They may not work great on the larger Gorn or Tzenkethi never mind the Hur'q, but they have their uses in other situations. I'd like to see a mechanic where if a humaniod enemy gets close enough your primary weapon is disabled and you automatically switch to martial arts strikes say if they get within 1-2 meters.
Here's the thing Judo, Wrestling (even the "sports entertainment" style"), jujitsu and IIRC Aikido would be out as move sets due demand sync animations, a throw without sync animations would look bad and grapples even worse, Judo is pretty much nothing but throws and grapples. The issues don't need 2 meters to manifest, lets take 1 person who is 178 cm and another who is 192 cm, that's less then a foot of size difference (around half a foot to be exact, a foot is about 30 cm and the difference here is 14 cm) that too would cause issues in animations due the size difference and 192 cm isn't abnormally tall either (and 178 cm is around average height for most western countries).
STO does have a bit of synch animation it's used only in cutscenes and for static poses (there used to be an issue in the episode "mindscape" that if you used a taller character Tuvok would fondling your chest instead of touching your face during the mindmeld, that has since been fixed by syncing Tuvok's hand into the player character's face).
There's reason people (myself included) are saying "keep it generic", the animations we already have serve well enough for a generic CQC style and by keeping it generic you won't run into the "that's wrong for this style" issue because it's "Starfleet CQC"(or KDF, Romulan navy or Jem'Hadar equilevant) style which doesn't exist in real life.
Also a lot of martial arts these days are sports first and foremost and thus aren't that effective in real combat that's not limited by rules of the sport in question.
You managed to both overthink and not think about it enough at same time.
Comments
Now I'm not against a martial arts based kits or specialization possibly with more moves then the current unarmed melee gives, however I'd keep it "generic" rather then naming any specific styles as that way Cryptic doesn't have mocap masters of various styles to get moves correct as you can't really say the moves don't fit that style as there's no specific style.
Also using white belt techniques on an actual battle is called "getting beat up" as those don't really work against opponents that are trying to kill you and thus don't follow the rules, there's a reason it's said that best self defense is not get into a fight in the first place.
Personally, I'd rather see them add stuff like Vulcan and Andorian martial arts instead of modern human styles. Even stuff like Sulu's Fencing from TOS/JJTrek or the iconic Starfleet 2-handed fist fighting style would be nice additions.
Simple punches and kicks shouldn't be too much of an issue the problem with animation comes if you include redirects, grapples or throws as those demand rather complex sync animations especially due the size difference STO characters can have, since you can have a around 1 meter tall alien gen character fight a nearly 3 meters tall Gorn and the martial arts animations would still have to look smooth and intentional.
Simple kicks and punches can be done with mocap so they're not as big of an issue though obviously even that's not as easy as people might think as you still need to clean up the mocap data.
EDIT: Psionic/Telekinetic blasts could be included and yes, absolutely the double-fisted-overhead punch. Next to the Kirk-missile-dropkick the most iconic Star Trek martial art!
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Whilst I applaud the suggestion, it's completely unworkable. Keep it generic. A few punches and kicks, like we already have are fine. What you see on-screen mostly won't work in a real-life scenario. "If it looks fancy, it's not going to work"....not just my saying (after 30 years in martial arts, I'm entitled to say so
And you're missing the main thing Star Trek brings us.....technology! Whilst fights do happen in Star Trek....they are often in scenarios where technology is not available; where it is, there is a swift end.
I could go about such a system like this, but things like differentiating about what 'belt level' a technique should is folly. Different styles within styles have different ideas of what 'quality' is. This would open a whole can of worms the Dev's really wouldn't want to get into, considering the 'sportification' of most martial arts, removing effectiveness for a gymnastic show.
Leave it be.
Telekinetic blast already exist as a trait, this one, my main uses it as her species is both telepathic and telekinetic (and also my own invention using the alien gen option).
Those Kirk based attacks should only be added if they also gave you a ripped shirt and massive boost to unarmed attacks while your shirt is ripped
I use the the telekinetic blast a lot too, all my Vorta have it (and some of my aliens) since the visuals came from Eris's telekinetic attack in DS9.
Unfortunately, this trait is not right on my Remans, as the Wiki says. It is not an active, damaging trait, maybe because Remans have Mind Drain.
Or instead of a weapons slot have it be a personal ground trait that modifies standard melee combos based on a style. Taekwondo for example could have more kick combos, Krav Maga could use combinations of aikido, boxing, wrestling, judo, and karate moves, and with that style since it is particularly lethal a certain combo if executed properly could critically hit and kill an enemy in a few moves.
Of course in a character could only really use these on other humaniod species (Vulcan, Klingon, Cardassian, Orion etc) They may not work great on the larger Gorn or Tzenkethi never mind the Hur'q, but they have their uses in other situations. I'd like to see a mechanic where if a humaniod enemy gets close enough your primary weapon is disabled and you automatically switch to martial arts strikes say if they get within 1-2 meters.
STO does have a bit of synch animation it's used only in cutscenes and for static poses (there used to be an issue in the episode "mindscape" that if you used a taller character Tuvok would fondling your chest instead of touching your face during the mindmeld, that has since been fixed by syncing Tuvok's hand into the player character's face).
There's reason people (myself included) are saying "keep it generic", the animations we already have serve well enough for a generic CQC style and by keeping it generic you won't run into the "that's wrong for this style" issue because it's "Starfleet CQC"(or KDF, Romulan navy or Jem'Hadar equilevant) style which doesn't exist in real life.
Also a lot of martial arts these days are sports first and foremost and thus aren't that effective in real combat that's not limited by rules of the sport in question.
You managed to both overthink and not think about it enough at same time.