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Nomad and Vger reprogrammed from the same race?
navar
Member Posts: 198 Arc User
The similarities between Vger and Nomad are quite frankly hard to ignore. Is it possible they were both found by the same race and given intelligence through them?
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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It is probably more likely that Tan Ru was sent out by Gary Seven's hosts or some other mostly reclusive civilization or an ancient one like the Kalandan who had territory not too far away. It could have even been an ancient Orion one before their civilization fell into its current dark ages.
Voyager 6 had originally been designed to simply gather all information possible and transmit it toward Earth. V'ger was programmed to "learn all that is learnable", and then "unite" with its creator. It's not Tan-Ru-style sterilization and analysis at all. Rather, it would seem to me that the civilization that reprogrammed V'ger was completely unrelated to the expansionist regime that designed Tan Ru. (And neither one, quite frankly, seems much like the Borg at all.)
Edit: please excuse all the typos. Hooves and phones...
Edit2: Linking the two is done by the kind of people that think Voth, Gorn and Saurians HAVE to be the same because they all look reptillic...
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It's not that people 'misunderstand', you are wrong in that, as there is zero canon evidence about the Borg prior (Enterprise excluded); it's that some folk refuse to accept that the Borg 'created' V'Ger, and that the Unimatrix ship shown in the motion picture is a precursor to the Unimatrix we now see in game.....The model for V'Ger was created decades BEFORE STO, not the other way round, and the full ship can be seen other editions of ST:TMP as well as stills. CBS wouldn't have approved of Cryptic using a design so similar otherwise. V'Ger assimilated ships etc throughout it's journey and it's evident it grew physically as it did so.
Did I get it backwards? I'll have to hunt down the PC game (Star Trek Legends is what the name of it was IIRC) and watch the video again. Either way, the whole idea just seemed absurd to me and I never gave it much thought passed entertainment.
The small spherical structure containing the NASA Voyager was from V'ger's builders, the rest is stuff that V'ger analyzed to death with those fuzzy torpedo/sensors and recreated for itself. It is quite possible that it ran across a Borg Unimatrix and assimilated it to beef itself up after getting damaged by some of the civilizations it came across (the Borg were probably the most damaging in fact since they would be wild to get the kind of tech V'ger had even early in its journey, and V'ger would probably have picked the scariest thing it could think of to keep others from trying).
That novel is part of the "Shatnerverse" timeline, not Prime, so STO could not use any of it without signing a deal with the novel's publisher first, something they are not particularly likely to do considering the problems they have had already with that kind of thing.
It was Star Trek Legacy.
The only thing that could be used is the link between V'Ger and the Borg. Luckily that was something that was also used in Star Trek Legacy, and thus fair game as long as STO takes the idea in a different direction than the book and Legacy.
Although honestly the Legacy explanation was pretty well thought out. Right now the only thing that hints at V'Ger and the Borg in STO are the Unimatrix ships looking like smaller versions of V'Ger.
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> @leemwatson said:
> It's not that people 'misunderstand', you are wrong in that, as there is zero canon evidence about the Borg prior (Enterprise excluded); it's that some folk refuse to accept that the Borg 'created' V'Ger, and that the Unimatrix ship shown in the motion picture is a precursor to the Unimatrix we now see in game.....The model for V'Ger was created decades BEFORE STO, not the other way round, and the full ship can be seen other editions of ST:TMP as well as stills. CBS wouldn't have approved of Cryptic using a design so similar otherwise. V'Ger assimilated ships etc throughout it's journey and it's evident it grew physically as it did so.
V'Ger didn't assimilate anything, it literally saved and catalouged things, turned them into information for the creator. This is neither what the Borg did (singular) nor what the new Borg (plural) did.
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It DID assimilate things. It learned and adapted by taking in information AND the absorption of matter, making it part of itself, and using it to 'better' itself, which is also exactly what the Borg do. Simply put, by starting a new game and learning it's systems, you are assimilating that information. Assimilation isn't a simple definition, it has multiple definitions, and I won't patronize you by listing them all.
To put my 'canon' point of view across from just what we've seen on-screen, Voyager fell into a singularity, say for instance, the Barzan wormhole, which we know did have exits in the Delta Quadrant, where the Borg of that Era, with limited understanding of Humanity, captured it, and assumed 'The Creator' was a machine, souped up V'Ger and set it back on a course to Earth. Given that we know the Borg at the time had 'assimilation' technology less advanced than TNG Borg, it makes sense that V'Ger assimilated in the way it did. Whilst no-one can guess how long it had travelled, it had to have been at least 100 years, given it would have taken the USS Voyager (I'm sure the ship's name is a CBS/Paramount clue and can't really be coincidence
Where do you get it "absorbed matter" to "better itself"? This was not stated, as far as I remember. If I misremember I shall stand corrected, but the concept was that the Voyager probe landed on a "machine planet" who build the big ship around it to allow it to complete it's mission, which was to learn everything and report back to the creator. The things it "destroyed" it turned into data, into holographic 3D images. It did not alter it's function based on things it learned, aside from the one, tiny little side effect of becoming sentient. The only time it remotely assimilated something in the sense the Borg are shown to do is when Decker fused with it to create a new life form made of machine logic and human emotion.
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I don't know... in a way Ilia may be counted as "assimilated".
If she was killed... how does the duplicate not only have a similar molecular structure, but have her memories and personality, but suppressed? That kinda sounds assimilated to me. And I think in some of the Borg declarations they say straight up "Existence as you know it is over" or something along those lines.
Borg Assimilation alters the body and suppresses personality while the memories are maintained in the Collective. For all intents and purposes, the process "kills" the victim as well. The individual ceases to exist, becoming yet another nameless Drone controlled by the Collective.
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It assimiliated/absorbed/converted Ilya, as already mentioned, it assimilated/converted/absorbed 3 Klingon K'Tinga's and an entire Outpost.......ONSCREEN! It learned from what it assimilated, that was it's purpose....to assimilate information and then report it back to the 'Creator'. The Borg took it's core programming quite literally and gave it more tools to do so. It learned compassion from Ilya, who's knowledge it assimilated to create the probe, quite literally altering it's core program once it did, otherwise, it would have wiped out Earth without a second thought. Ilya, literally was V'ger's 'downfall'.
Assimilation, simply put....again, is the learning and/or absorption of something....please don't make me start posting the actual definitions.
There is literally no finite proof that V'ger is connected to the Borg and the only two sources that point to it are from a non-canon book and a non-canon game. The Borg didn't destroy things to assimilate, they took them over forcefully...
Daniel Stahl was a big fan of V'ger and even he wouldn't confirm the Unimatrix vessels were a direct connection to V'ger and it could all just be a coincidence because he was a fan.
You're treating hints and non-canon sources as fact
This is why I felt it would be a great discussion, since there are no facts to support this subject, but rather a fun topic that people would toss theories on.
Sadly, like any other thread, it is slowly turning in to a tug-of-war between people.
I mean it's okay if someone thinks it is a cool theory, I'm not a fan of it but to each is own...when you start presenting a unproven theory as fact is the problem, which is what lee was doing.
It is a great discussion, something I love about this game, but I'll reiterate, I used onscreen evidence to back my case. The proof isn't absolute, but cause there's no definitive assertion on screen, however, it's hard to make a case against, when we know there hasn't been any other advanced machine race onscreen. The lack of evidence isn't proof that something else does or does not exists. STO is 'soft' canon, and it presents the best link between the two, and the similarity between the the V'Ger vessel and the STO Unimatrix is one that warrants further investigation, because the answer to that question is the ultimate proof, as we know CBS has alot of say of what can and cannot be allowed within the game, right down to the story AND certain ships. If one Dev says CBS gave ANY input on the Unimatrix design, then that is almost absolute proof of who modified V'Ger.
The weight of onscreen evidence, not non-canon evidence, backs the Borg theory. To my knowledge, at least two books I've read and a game, not STO, directly use the Borg as V'Ger's benefactors.
> It assimiliated/absorbed/converted Ilya, as already mentioned, it assimilated/converted/absorbed 3 Klingon K'Tinga's and an entire Outpost.......ONSCREEN! It learned from what it assimilated, that was it's purpose....to assimilate information and then report it back to the 'Creator'. The Borg took it's core programming quite literally and gave it more tools to do so. It learned compassion from Ilya, who's knowledge it assimilated to create the probe, quite literally altering it's core program once it did, otherwise, it would have wiped out Earth without a second thought. Ilya, literally was V'ger's 'downfall'.
>
> Assimilation, simply put....again, is the learning and/or absorption of something....please don't make me start posting the actual definitions.
It turned all these into data and saved them as 3D holograns. The Ilya probe was a synthetic recreation of her body and memory engrans, like the Synths did with Picard. This is a process very different from what the Borg do. They integrate their victims forcefully - that's assimilation in the sense the Borg use the term.
I think you said it best in one of your other posts: you (and others) draw the conclusion because the Borg are one of the only 'machine people' we see, and solely through superficial similarities a connection is drawn. But Borg aren't even machine people, they are 'carbon units' tgat augmented themselves with technology. V'Ger is a sentient machine. It's a completely different animal 😉
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This.
Trelane being a Q is still more believable than V'Ger being a Borg-progenitor somehow (the Vaadwaur even pointed out the Borg almost failed when they emerged). Just because they are machinepeople doesn't mean they have to be behind everything that goes into this direction.
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> I just like to pretend the machine race Voyager ran into were the Cybertronians...even though it isn't, it still gives me a chuckle to think that, especially since the Voyager probe actually has a link to Transformers.
Unless Voyager went back in time though, Cybertron probably wasn't in a state that would have allowed this to happen. Or Cybertron in Trek prime was ruled by benevolent mirror Quintessons and never saw uprising and civil war😁
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They frequently use a black hole or wormhole to throw Voyager 6 back in time and across the galaxy before its transformation into V'Ger.
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