At least Cryptic is trying new pricings to see what makes them enough money for account-wide versions. The $150 3-ship Mudd's bundles, the $60-300 Legendary packs.
It makes sense to me that the D7 and Connie are going to be $60-$150 and not the $30 for an Arbiter/Avenger but beyond that I have no idea what price they need to keep the lights on and make a profit.
If they need to hit a certain price point to keep the lights on then they need to offer things that are actually WORTH that price point. Four new variants of existing C-Store ships packaged with a metric ton of unwanted junk isn't gonna get my wallet open.
They only need the magic number of people buying that bundle to hit their mandated quota. You or I may not be willing to fork over the zen, whether bough with out own or other people's money, but they are counting on the majority who do not participate in community discussion on the forums, on reddit or on social media to do so, and it can be inferred from Ambassador Kael's statement, they actually do. See it's the metrics from them that they pay closest attention to.
Cryptic could post a C-store purchase of a digital pile of turds and these people who just play and buy would throw money at it. We would see it as just a money grab and say so. But the fact that it would sell would justify more piles of turds...
The people making the decisions only pay attention to the metrics that reflect successful sales, not the ones reflecting people who pass on the offered items. It does not matter how many of us express our dislike for an offered item so long as they hit their profit quota. And it doesn't matter how much we ask for something so long as actual sales of something similarly offered do not hit that quota. The former gets priority treatment, and the latter gets marginalized.
While you're not necessarily wrong, its pretty clear this bundle has made most everyone unhappy. Unhappy customers are not good for long term business.
At least personally I do actually intend to buy this bundle. 3/4 of the ships are ships I've wanted in legendary form (even though the L. B'rel is really underwhelming,) and I already have the zen sitting there so I don't need to buy any more. However, I'm keenly aware this bundle is a rip off. This means I'm not giving Cryptic any more $$ in the forseeable future which means I may well miss out on a L. D7, and L. D'Deridex. Does Cryptic have the ability to connect those dots? Probably not and that's a problem listening only to numbers.
I don't know how many are in my boat, who planned ahead and saved for this bundle, and are going to get it grudgingly. That may well send the wrong message, but that is also on Cryptic for not listening properly. Hopefully they can properly distinguish between people who had the zen already and people who bought zen and the bundle immediately after. If they can't, they will suffer long term if everyone else who didn't buy the bundle sticks to their guns and refuses to continue supporting the company for bad bundle practices.
Your problem is that you plan to buy it anyway, even though you feel you are being ripped off. If you feel like it is a rip off, then close your wallet and refuse.
Don't grudgingly give them money. That will just feed the metrics they are looking for and ensure that more of the same will happen.
I'm not giving them money. The zen is already there.
This bundle is not aimed at veteran players who are picky about what they spend money on. This bundle is aimed at new players with money burning a hole in their pocket.
The Romulan Legendary Bundle with lvl65 Token was aimed at new players too... why is everything only "aimed" at new players?
Why was there a "Standard Bundle" for the 10th Anniversary Bundle which was attractive to "long time players" as well and a "Premium Bundle" for the "new players" and why is there none now?
They can have their fluff bundle.
We only ask for a no fluff bundle option... and they deny it.
And the reason they do it is because this fluff bundle has better margins for them while providing little to meaningless benefits to long time players.
Simple as that.
They do not give a rats TRIBBLE about the players, they only care about their bottom line. And that makes them TRIBBLE. Simple as that.
And don't give me "it is a business" BS. No one asks for free stuff and their business by their own statements is better than ever.
We only want a fair deal. So TRIBBLE that.
At least Cryptic is trying new pricings to see what makes them enough money for account-wide versions. The $150 3-ship Mudd's bundles, the $60-300 Legendary packs.
It makes sense to me that the D7 and Connie are going to be $60-$150 and not the $30 for an Arbiter/Avenger but beyond that I have no idea what price they need to keep the lights on and make a profit.
If they need to hit a certain price point to keep the lights on then they need to offer things that are actually WORTH that price point. Four new variants of existing C-Store ships packaged with a metric ton of unwanted junk isn't gonna get my wallet open.
They only need the magic number of people buying that bundle to hit their mandated quota. You or I may not be willing to fork over the zen, whether bough with out own or other people's money, but they are counting on the majority who do not participate in community discussion on the forums, on reddit or on social media to do so, and it can be inferred from Ambassador Kael's statement, they actually do. See it's the metrics from them that they pay closest attention to.
Cryptic could post a C-store purchase of a digital pile of turds and these people who just play and buy would throw money at it. We would see it as just a money grab and say so. But the fact that it would sell would justify more piles of turds...
The people making the decisions only pay attention to the metrics that reflect successful sales, not the ones reflecting people who pass on the offered items. It does not matter how many of us express our dislike for an offered item so long as they hit their profit quota. And it doesn't matter how much we ask for something so long as actual sales of something similarly offered do not hit that quota. The former gets priority treatment, and the latter gets marginalized.
While you're not necessarily wrong, its pretty clear this bundle has made most everyone unhappy. Unhappy customers are not good for long term business.
At least personally I do actually intend to buy this bundle. 3/4 of the ships are ships I've wanted in legendary form (even though the L. B'rel is really underwhelming,) and I already have the zen sitting there so I don't need to buy any more. However, I'm keenly aware this bundle is a rip off. This means I'm not giving Cryptic any more $$ in the forseeable future which means I may well miss out on a L. D7, and L. D'Deridex. Does Cryptic have the ability to connect those dots? Probably not and that's a problem listening only to numbers.
I don't know how many are in my boat, who planned ahead and saved for this bundle, and are going to get it grudgingly. That may well send the wrong message, but that is also on Cryptic for not listening properly. Hopefully they can properly distinguish between people who had the zen already and people who bought zen and the bundle immediately after. If they can't, they will suffer long term if everyone else who didn't buy the bundle sticks to their guns and refuses to continue supporting the company for bad bundle practices.
Your problem is that you plan to buy it anyway, even though you feel you are being ripped off. If you feel like it is a rip off, then close your wallet and refuse.
Don't grudgingly give them money. That will just feed the metrics they are looking for and ensure that more of the same will happen.
I'm not giving them money. The zen is already there.
Yes... But they track what the Zen is spent on. Every unit of Zen enters the game via real money transaction. Whether you bought the Zen yourself or traded dilithium for it. Each Zen represents real money. It doesn't matter how long you've had it. They will see it as money spent for this bundle. Remember, it's all about numbers.
Then that is a problem with their metrics. Not tracking where the zen comes from is one thing, but not tracking when the zen comes from is another. It says a lot more if zen/dil trading skyrockets after a bundle announcement, or if a lot of people buy zen and immediately spend it on the bundle once they have a charge bonus. If on the other hand very few charge up and trading falls off, its easy to see the bundle is a loser, even if a bunch of people who already had zen on hand do buy it.
It isn't like I can use the Zen on a hamburger. Its store credit, only valuable here, and the only other things I would spend it on do not yet exist, and may not ever exist.
Probably because their metrics show that more people bough the fluff bundle than those who bought the standard bundle.
[x] Doubt
The margin on the Deluxe Bundle was/is considerably higher than that of the Standard Bundle.
On top of that the incentive to increase Zen availability is also higher.
The Deluxe Bundle earns more money for less work and the Standard Bundle gives less incentive to flood the system with new Zen.
Therefore the Standard Bundle undermines the imaginative value of the Deluxe Bundle and despite higher sales probably made less money per investment for Cryptic while providing about the same perceived value for the players.
That is why it had to go.
Whether you want to hear it or not, they are a business, whose model is driven entirely by metrics.
Any prove? No of course not... because they never give it to you anything else than "our data shows this what you want".
They never show you the data...
Never trust a statistic you haven't falsified yourself isn't it?
If you buy the fluff bundle, there is no reason to buy the standard bundle... And if you buy the standard bundle, there's no reason to buy the fluff bundle.
So?
The point is they no longer give us the choice.
But you do hold the power of the purse. If you don't like what they charge for something that you don't even really NEED to spend a dime of your own money on, then don't spend it.
You don't say... never crossed my mind even once... I always thought whatever Cryptic puts forward you have to buy.
Hu... a new perspective. Need to write that down.
If enough people stop throwing money at fluff, then they will start looking at other options. But as long as that magic number of sales is reached, where they meet or exceed their projected sales threshold, then not only will they continue, but they will double and even triple down on it.
Sounds like unhinged capitalism. Are you by any chance from the USA?
While you're not necessarily wrong, its pretty clear this bundle has made most everyone unhappy. Unhappy customers are not good for long term business.
By "most everyone" I'd have to assume you are referring to those who've voiced their displeasure toward the bundle. Sadly, its pretty much a fact that the 'voices' of the vocal minority here (and on Social Media) are very much drowned out by metrics that contradict the negative feedback.
What do you think they'd pay more attention to?
- 500 players on the forum/Social Media saying "its terrible and I won't buy it"
- Metrics that show 1000+ bundle sales
(random numbers, but you get the point).
In this instance I'm not even sure the masses will be that interested either. It's a bloated price for two downgraded Klingon C-Store ships, 1 marginally better Fed C-Store ship, and another Fed C-Store ship whose stats are currently unknown. At this point I really don't know how ANYONE could justify making this purchase, even a stripped down ships only bundle would be a hard sell for me now with these stats. So far only the BoP has a decent new skin, the stats are terrible, and the price is absurd ... I just don't understand. There are probably some people who just buy every new ship regardless, but other than that there's just no reason anyone should want this.
While you're not necessarily wrong, its pretty clear this bundle has made most everyone unhappy. Unhappy customers are not good for long term business.
By "most everyone" I'd have to assume you are referring to those who've voiced their displeasure toward the bundle. Sadly, its pretty much a fact that the 'voices' of the vocal minority here (and on Social Media) are very much drowned out by metrics that contradict the negative feedback.
What do you think they'd pay more attention to?
- 500 players on the forum/Social Media saying "its terrible and I won't buy it"
- Metrics that show 1000+ bundle sales
(random numbers, but you get the point).
I'm aware of that, but how many quiet people are going to look at a mere 4 ships for $250 /$185 and press purchase? This especially if they read the stats of each ship first and scratch their head looking at the B'rel and Vor'cha.
At this point I really don't know how ANYONE could justify making this purchase, even a stripped down ships only bundle would be a hard sell for me now with these stats.
The overwhelming majority of people who play MMOs are casuals, and casuals don't care about the meta, and generally either don't understand, or simply don't care, about the actual stats of the things they are using, and instead jut fly whatever they think looks cool.
Look at how many people can't break like 20K DPS, despite many of them having played the game since it went F2P.
I definitely count myself among those who don't care about the meta and just do what they find fun, but even I can see that these aren't worth the higher cost over the normal C-Store versions.
Off topic, how easy is 20k DPS to hit exactly? Just checked my DPS for the first time on three characters. The first two both are using Aux2Bat builds with FaW, BO, and KLW, my original main got 17k with the Promo version of the TOS Connie and my TOS character got 15k with the Lobi store NX Refit (I think cannons would probably perform better in this ship, but I just don't like using them). My science character hit 26.8 in the Legendary Intrepid with a mega GW + FaW build (most of her gear is still MK12 so that number would likely go significantly higher after some upgrades). I haven't tested my romulan or klingon characters yet, but they both use my usual Aux2Bat build with the addition of Override Subsystem Safeties. Logs were all done on the final battle of Ninth Rule.
The norm for checking your damage is Infected Space Advanced. Using Aux2Bat with beams you're already there. It's all you really need for advanced TFO's.
With the price of this stuff you would think we could get some real work done on the game. We always get "it would be too hard" as an excuse.
What I don't understand is they've said the past few years have been some of the best financially, so why don't they hire some more staff to increase the flow of new content? This is one of my favorite games but there's just nothing to do except for the same old missions and mindless TFOs. My two biggest wishes for this game have always been more missions, and TFOs with unique boss mechanics instead of wave after wave of normal enemies with the occasional dreadnaught.
With the price of this stuff you would think we could get some real work done on the game. We always get "it would be too hard" as an excuse.
What I don't understand is they've said the past few years have been some of the best financially, so why don't they hire some more staff to increase the flow of new content? This is one of my favorite games but there's just nothing to do except for the same old missions and mindless TFOs. My two biggest wishes for this game have always been more missions, and TFOs with unique boss mechanics instead of wave after wave of normal enemies with the occasional dreadnaught.
Their idea of "unique boss mechanics" is giving bosses pretty much the same abilities you can get your hands on, just crancked up to be OP.
I mean, I don't expect raid-like queues from this game, I never did, but now the quality of queues has gone down even more: it's nothing but timed thing after timed thing. Hell, they can't even program stuff properly and instead have ships purposefully fly into bases to get stuck there!
Proper mechanics - not just "you can either pew pew pew stuff or just sit tight and wait for 10+ minutes and the queue will auto-complete itself" - would be a nice change of pace for the endgame. And it doesn't even have to be like that for every queue, but of course I forget that the queues with actual mechanics are the ones that are dubbed "the worst" (starting with Infected Ground, and we all know how that one ended, don't we?).
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
With the price of this stuff you would think we could get some real work done on the game. We always get "it would be too hard" as an excuse.
What I don't understand is they've said the past few years have been some of the best financially, so why don't they hire some more staff to increase the flow of new content? This is one of my favorite games but there's just nothing to do except for the same old missions and mindless TFOs. My two biggest wishes for this game have always been more missions, and TFOs with unique boss mechanics instead of wave after wave of normal enemies with the occasional dreadnaught.
On the Cryptic Studios website for their games, they are hiring for 11 positions now for their games. So yes, they are hiring and they are looking for another environment artist for STO.
6 of the job openings on the Cryptic website are for Core staff (aka people working on the shared game engine STO uses) and 2 are for STO specifically. (Environment Artist, and Senior Systems Designer) The other three jobs are for Neverwinter or Magic: Legends.
Comments
I'm not giving them money. The zen is already there.
The Romulan Legendary Bundle with lvl65 Token was aimed at new players too... why is everything only "aimed" at new players?
Why was there a "Standard Bundle" for the 10th Anniversary Bundle which was attractive to "long time players" as well and a "Premium Bundle" for the "new players" and why is there none now?
They can have their fluff bundle.
We only ask for a no fluff bundle option... and they deny it.
And the reason they do it is because this fluff bundle has better margins for them while providing little to meaningless benefits to long time players.
Simple as that.
They do not give a rats TRIBBLE about the players, they only care about their bottom line. And that makes them TRIBBLE. Simple as that.
And don't give me "it is a business" BS. No one asks for free stuff and their business by their own statements is better than ever.
We only want a fair deal. So TRIBBLE that.
Then that is a problem with their metrics. Not tracking where the zen comes from is one thing, but not tracking when the zen comes from is another. It says a lot more if zen/dil trading skyrockets after a bundle announcement, or if a lot of people buy zen and immediately spend it on the bundle once they have a charge bonus. If on the other hand very few charge up and trading falls off, its easy to see the bundle is a loser, even if a bunch of people who already had zen on hand do buy it.
It isn't like I can use the Zen on a hamburger. Its store credit, only valuable here, and the only other things I would spend it on do not yet exist, and may not ever exist.
[x] Doubt
The margin on the Deluxe Bundle was/is considerably higher than that of the Standard Bundle.
On top of that the incentive to increase Zen availability is also higher.
The Deluxe Bundle earns more money for less work and the Standard Bundle gives less incentive to flood the system with new Zen.
Therefore the Standard Bundle undermines the imaginative value of the Deluxe Bundle and despite higher sales probably made less money per investment for Cryptic while providing about the same perceived value for the players.
That is why it had to go.
Any prove? No of course not... because they never give it to you anything else than "our data shows this what you want".
They never show you the data...
Never trust a statistic you haven't falsified yourself isn't it?
[x] Doubt
Maximizing revenue is not the same as actually increasing revenue...
So?
The point is they no longer give us the choice.
They are whale hunting.
No TRIBBLE TRIBBLE Sherlock.
Few do.
The greatest lie about F2P is that it is actually free...
Every Zen in the system was at some point purchased.
So is drug dealing... the point is it is morally bankrupt and wrong.
The service I want is not provided... that is the complaint.
You got some master degree on economics? You blowing my mind here... never read any of this TRIBBLE before...
You don't say... never crossed my mind even once... I always thought whatever Cryptic puts forward you have to buy.
Hu... a new perspective. Need to write that down.
Now how is that supposed to work?
Sounds like unhinged capitalism. Are you by any chance from the USA?
Nah it is mostly TRIBBLE excuses and some mostly basic explanations that miss the point really...
In this instance I'm not even sure the masses will be that interested either. It's a bloated price for two downgraded Klingon C-Store ships, 1 marginally better Fed C-Store ship, and another Fed C-Store ship whose stats are currently unknown. At this point I really don't know how ANYONE could justify making this purchase, even a stripped down ships only bundle would be a hard sell for me now with these stats. So far only the BoP has a decent new skin, the stats are terrible, and the price is absurd ... I just don't understand. There are probably some people who just buy every new ship regardless, but other than that there's just no reason anyone should want this.
I'm aware of that, but how many quiet people are going to look at a mere 4 ships for $250 /$185 and press purchase? This especially if they read the stats of each ship first and scratch their head looking at the B'rel and Vor'cha.
I definitely count myself among those who don't care about the meta and just do what they find fun, but even I can see that these aren't worth the higher cost over the normal C-Store versions.
Off topic, how easy is 20k DPS to hit exactly? Just checked my DPS for the first time on three characters. The first two both are using Aux2Bat builds with FaW, BO, and KLW, my original main got 17k with the Promo version of the TOS Connie and my TOS character got 15k with the Lobi store NX Refit (I think cannons would probably perform better in this ship, but I just don't like using them). My science character hit 26.8 in the Legendary Intrepid with a mega GW + FaW build (most of her gear is still MK12 so that number would likely go significantly higher after some upgrades). I haven't tested my romulan or klingon characters yet, but they both use my usual Aux2Bat build with the addition of Override Subsystem Safeties. Logs were all done on the final battle of Ninth Rule.
What I don't understand is they've said the past few years have been some of the best financially, so why don't they hire some more staff to increase the flow of new content? This is one of my favorite games but there's just nothing to do except for the same old missions and mindless TFOs. My two biggest wishes for this game have always been more missions, and TFOs with unique boss mechanics instead of wave after wave of normal enemies with the occasional dreadnaught.
Their idea of "unique boss mechanics" is giving bosses pretty much the same abilities you can get your hands on, just crancked up to be OP.
I mean, I don't expect raid-like queues from this game, I never did, but now the quality of queues has gone down even more: it's nothing but timed thing after timed thing. Hell, they can't even program stuff properly and instead have ships purposefully fly into bases to get stuck there!
Proper mechanics - not just "you can either pew pew pew stuff or just sit tight and wait for 10+ minutes and the queue will auto-complete itself" - would be a nice change of pace for the endgame. And it doesn't even have to be like that for every queue, but of course I forget that the queues with actual mechanics are the ones that are dubbed "the worst" (starting with Infected Ground, and we all know how that one ended, don't we?).
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
On the Cryptic Studios website for their games, they are hiring for 11 positions now for their games. So yes, they are hiring and they are looking for another environment artist for STO.