Okay, seriously, standard carriers really need a buff, I was quite disappointed with the support carriers, sure they look great and have nice pets, but with Dreadnought carriers and Flight deck cruisers, both of which have two hanger slots and the Dreadnought carriers at least count as full carriers, standard carriers are obsolete, they really need a buff.
Compared to the other ships, they have less weaponry, worse Boff slots, are less manoeuvrable than Dreadnought carriers, they have less console slots and don't even have the special abilities that the cruisers and the Dreadnoughts do. Seriously, what is the point of them?
I agree that science carriers (what you call "standard") do need a boost of some kind.
I disagree with you completely that the science BOFF and Console layout is somehow inferior. Perhaps it is not what you like, but that certainly does not mean that the BOFF and Console layout is inferior.
Until the Stealth nerf last month Carriers like the Aspero beat any Flight Deck Carriers for pet DPS. Its just a shame the devs decided to nerf full carriers and make them rather pointless.
I agree that science carriers (what you call "standard") do need a boost of some kind.
I disagree with you completely that the science BOFF and Console layout is somehow inferior. Perhaps it is not what you like, but that certainly does not mean that the BOFF and Console layout is inferior.
No, seriously, look at it, this isn't opinion, it's fact, they have both fewer overall console and Boff slots than most other tier 6 ships. They only have about nine or ten consoles whilst most tier 6's have 11, this is on top of them having the weapons layout of a science ship without the secondary deflector and other abilities.
I agree that science carriers (what you call "standard") do need a boost of some kind.
I disagree with you completely that the science BOFF and Console layout is somehow inferior. Perhaps it is not what you like, but that certainly does not mean that the BOFF and Console layout is inferior.
No, seriously, look at it, this isn't opinion, it's fact, they have both fewer overall console and Boff slots than most other tier 6 ships. They only have about nine or ten consoles whilst most tier 6's have 11, this is on top of them having the weapons layout of a science ship without the secondary deflector and other abilities.
I misinterpretted, I appologize. You are absolutely correct, there is no reason the support carriers should have fewer BOFF seats. Carriers like the Jupiter do have the normal amount of BOFF seats. The fact that they have 10 consoles instead of 11 is not out of the ordinary however. They get the 11th console when upgraded to Fleet version.
The crazy thing is the free carrier they just gave away is actually better then the ones they want you to pay for. The Gok'Tad at least has 7 hardpoints, the proper number of BoFF stations and 11 consoles (12 with T6X Upgrade.)
I still have a guy flying the Jem Support Carrier because I think it looks cool.. but if he's going to do any serious content, the first thing I do is swap ships. He still does pretty well because he has Superior Area Denial but I fly the ship knowing it's inferior.
Yes all (Rare) T6 Ships that come with 10 Consoles, all get their 11th when upgraded to a Fleet Version.
Just got to be in a Fleet, have earned some Fleet Credit, and have a Fleet Module to upgrade it. Be it from the free upgrades available from REP, purchased with Credit off the Exchange, or acquired with ZEN.
Also the Bridge Stations on normal Carrier's is very standard to other ship's and quite flexible; I'd certainly ensure you have an Ultra Quality, or called Elite Hanger Pets. They are available in some REP's or at a Fleet Starbase Holdings... ...as someone else said they can be quite effective, but it also depends on how you build your ship.
Have you made the Fleet Version of the above, also upgraded with an Experimental Upgrade?
╙ That also gives another Starship Trait, on top of the 5th Trait unlockable at Fleet Research Stations.
╙ In Addition to another Console Slot.
Can earn two of them by saving Ultra Phoenix tokens, for when the Phoenix Events are also on.
Also the Bridge Stations on normal Carrier's is very standard to other ship's and quite flexible; I'd certainly ensure you have an Ultra Quality, or called Elite Hanger Pets. They are available in some REP's or at a Fleet Starbase Holdings... ...as someone else said they can be quite effective, but it also depends on how you build your ship.
Why would you ensure you have Ultra Quality/Elite Hanger Pets when its well known they are widely buged/broken and the further you upgrade past rare the worse many of them perform which gets even worse when you use the best carrier traits.
@strathkin just tagging you in as I would have thought after all the years and many bug reports this was well established and if not please look into it as I see you are a bug hunter. All the top carrier pilots I fly with use rare pets as bar a few expectations upgrading to Advanced or Elite makes them worse. This isn't aimed at you personally. I am just a little frustrated at the moment as everything I am trying in game is broken and bug reports do not seem to be doing anything.
Its really frustrating to spend over 60k dill on a set of pets only to have it worse then the basic version. Then go to the Fleet Starbase Holdings to by more starship equipment only to find everything I am buying is broken. Must have spent over 1 million dill on broken pets and items.
"Have you made the Fleet Version of the above, also upgraded with an Experimental Upgrade?
╙ That also gives another Starship Trait, on top of the 5th Trait unlockable at Fleet Research Stations.
╙ In Addition to another Console Slot."
Why would anyone want to do that? That doesn't solve the problem and just wastes money. Bar a few rare expectations I would advice any carrier pilot to ignore full carriers and not to waste any upgrade tokens on them. If the devs want us to spend upgrade tokens they should fix the problems with the full carrier ships. I know you are not a dev but it feels like you are advising people to waste money. Unless you really like the fluff of those ships, Experimental Upgrade and Fleet tokens is a terrible idea. Full Carriers are flawed and need fixing.
I agree that science carriers (what you call "standard") do need a boost of some kind.
I disagree with you completely that the science BOFF and Console layout is somehow inferior. Perhaps it is not what you like, but that certainly does not mean that the BOFF and Console layout is inferior.
What Science carriers need is a secondary deflector slot. That alone would be enough.
I agree that science carriers (what you call "standard") do need a boost of some kind.
I disagree with you completely that the science BOFF and Console layout is somehow inferior. Perhaps it is not what you like, but that certainly does not mean that the BOFF and Console layout is inferior.
What Science carriers need is a secondary deflector slot. That alone would be enough.
Not really...plus that would just make Science more inferior
Carriers need a new trait package...one trait that boosts offense for sure and maybe another that boosts defense. Or a third hangar bay, but with squadrons being introduced more and more that would add up to more spam so probably not the best idea
Also the Bridge Stations on normal Carrier's is very standard to other ship's and quite flexible; I'd certainly ensure you have an Ultra Quality, or called Elite Hanger Pets. They are available in some REP's or at a Fleet Starbase Holdings... ...as someone else said they can be quite effective, but it also depends on how you build your ship.
Why would you ensure you have Ultra Quality/Elite Hanger Pets when its well known they are widely buged/broken and the further you upgrade past rare the worse many of them perform which gets even worse when you use the best carrier traits.
@strathkin just tagging you in as I would have thought after all the years and many bug reports this was well established and if not please look into it as I see you are a bug hunter. All the top carrier pilots I fly with use rare pets as bar a few expectations upgrading to Advanced or Elite makes them worse. This isn't aimed at you personally. I am just a little frustrated at the moment as everything I am trying in game is broken and bug reports do not seem to be doing anything.
Its really frustrating to spend over 60k dill on a set of pets only to have it worse then the basic version. Then go to the Fleet Starbase Holdings to by more starship equipment only to find everything I am buying is broken. Must have spent over 1 million dill on broken pets and items.
"Have you made the Fleet Version of the above, also upgraded with an Experimental Upgrade?
╙ That also gives another Starship Trait, on top of the 5th Trait unlockable at Fleet Research Stations.
╙ In Addition to another Console Slot."
Why would anyone want to do that? That doesn't solve the problem and just wastes money. Bar a few rare expectations I would advice any carrier pilot to ignore full carriers and not to waste any upgrade tokens on them. If the devs want us to spend upgrade tokens they should fix the problems with the full carrier ships. I know you are not a dev but it feels like you are advising people to waste money. Unless you really like the fluff of those ships, Experimental Upgrade and Fleet tokens is a terrible idea. Full Carriers are flawed and need fixing.
Well I'll say I went back to Nov of 2019, and found only 1 mention in support - bug reports about a carrier pet. It was by one individual alone, and then they later admitted when they disbanded their carrier they've had for awhile, and reclaimed it they didn't notice any issues. Also most of the issue was focused on the consumable device not the pets themselves.
"I'm having an issue with the Elite Tactical Flyer Squadron pets from the Miracle Worker Flight-Deck Carrier. No matter what I do, the pets damage will not increase (with the addition of Swarmer Matrix) and are underperforming damage wise from 10/24/19 onwards. I'm not sure if it's a bug or not, but I figured I should mention it."
In Aug-Sept 2019, there was one other report made by 2-3 others, but was mostly about Hanger Pet's not following orders for Attack, Defense, and I can confirm I previously experienced that one.
I also recently spoken to those who use Very Rare Pets from DIL Store, or Elite Pet's from REP or Fleet Starbase just fine. One of my Romulan's uses Elite Scorpion Fighters.
Also the advice I provided, would likely be helpful to many, despite the methods you choose to respond to my suggestions.
All I will say is Cryptic has events has given out a few free Experimental Upgrades, and just running an event for another currently. There are also ways to earn more in game with Ultra Phoenix Token's during the Phoenix Event. As for Fleet Modules those can be earned as I mentioned by completing REP to Tier VI as noted.
Still, I'm supportive of having new Carriers possibly getting 2nd Deflector; yet realize most SCI builds only have 3/3 weapons without the 1-2 Hanger Bays. Same goes for TAC Builds as they add a single Hanger or Experimental Weapon.
The problem with giving sci carriers the same features as sci ships is probably that they make sci ships seem useless. Why not just use (and therefore buy) a carrier if they have all the abilities of a sci ship? (Although honestly I'd say the same for 'flight deck carriers' -- why buy a plain cruiser now?)
What they need to do is make sci carriers able to enhance their pets somehow. There are a few special abilities in game that let you do that, but they are associated with particular ships. What is needed is a few special pet-boosting abilities linked to sci carriers only. For example, pets launched from sci carriers could get a default defense bonus, making them harder to hit.
Yes, that was the same point I was trying to be subtle, yet clear, as you identified in your opening paragraph.
Though I like your suggestion in the 2nd Paragraph, it's constructive.
Note: The Breen Sarr Theln Carrier T6, also gives Reactive Repair Nanites, for those who earned thru Event or Phoenix Token.
╙ Hull Heals also heal your hanger pets within 5km of your target for 33% of healing caused.
Do I think Sci Carriers, might warrant a defensive boost to Hanger Pet's, I'm sure they could investigate.
Also the Bridge Stations on normal Carrier's is very standard to other ship's and quite flexible; I'd certainly ensure you have an Ultra Quality, or called Elite Hanger Pets. They are available in some REP's or at a Fleet Starbase Holdings... ...as someone else said they can be quite effective, but it also depends on how you build your ship.
Why would you ensure you have Ultra Quality/Elite Hanger Pets when its well known they are widely buged/broken and the further you upgrade past rare the worse many of them perform which gets even worse when you use the best carrier traits.
@strathkin just tagging you in as I would have thought after all the years and many bug reports this was well established and if not please look into it as I see you are a bug hunter. All the top carrier pilots I fly with use rare pets as bar a few expectations upgrading to Advanced or Elite makes them worse. This isn't aimed at you personally. I am just a little frustrated at the moment as everything I am trying in game is broken and bug reports do not seem to be doing anything.
Its really frustrating to spend over 60k dill on a set of pets only to have it worse then the basic version. Then go to the Fleet Starbase Holdings to by more starship equipment only to find everything I am buying is broken. Must have spent over 1 million dill on broken pets and items.
"Have you made the Fleet Version of the above, also upgraded with an Experimental Upgrade?
╙ That also gives another Starship Trait, on top of the 5th Trait unlockable at Fleet Research Stations.
╙ In Addition to another Console Slot."
Why would anyone want to do that? That doesn't solve the problem and just wastes money. Bar a few rare expectations I would advice any carrier pilot to ignore full carriers and not to waste any upgrade tokens on them. If the devs want us to spend upgrade tokens they should fix the problems with the full carrier ships. I know you are not a dev but it feels like you are advising people to waste money. Unless you really like the fluff of those ships, Experimental Upgrade and Fleet tokens is a terrible idea. Full Carriers are flawed and need fixing.
Well I'll say I went back to Nov of 2019, and found only 1 mention in support - bug reports about a carrier pet. It was by one individual alone, and then they later admitted when they disbanded their carrier they've had for awhile, and reclaimed it they didn't notice any issues. Also most of the issue was focused on the consumable device not the pets themselves.
"I'm having an issue with the Elite Tactical Flyer Squadron pets from the Miracle Worker Flight-Deck Carrier. No matter what I do, the pets damage will not increase (with the addition of Swarmer Matrix) and are underperforming damage wise from 10/24/19 onwards. I'm not sure if it's a bug or not, but I figured I should mention it."
In Aug-Sept 2019, there was one other report made by 2-3 others, but was mostly about Hanger Pet's not following orders for Attack, Defense, and I can confirm I previously experienced that one.
I also recently spoken to those who use Very Rare Pets from DIL Store, or Elite Pet's from REP or Fleet Starbase just fine. One of my Romulan's uses Elite Scorpion Fighters.
Also the advice I provided, would likely be helpful to many, despite the methods you choose to respond to my suggestions.
All I will say is Cryptic has events has given out a few free Experimental Upgrades, and just running an event for another currently. There are also ways to earn more in game with Ultra Phoenix Token's during the Phoenix Event. As for Fleet Modules those can be earned as I mentioned by completing REP to Tier VI as noted.
Still, I'm supportive of having new Carriers possibly getting 2nd Deflector; yet realize most SCI builds only have 3/3 weapons without the 1-2 Hanger Bays. Same goes for TAC Builds as they add a single Hanger or Experimental Weapon.
Over the years I have made many posts with backup data about the broken hangar pets and have summited many bug reports. The forums, STO reddit, popular discord channels, hangar pet guides are all full of people talking about the hangar pet bugs and how not to use Advanced or Elite pets.
There is as reason why all the top end players are flying around with Rare pets and never upgrade to Advance or Elite. Upgrading to advance is making the pets perform worse and upgrading to Elite is making them even worse than advance. Basically, they are back to front the more you upgrade them the worst they get on carrier builds. This does not affect every pet but it is very widespread. I haven’t got time right now but if you like I can go into far more detail. There is a major issue with pets getting worse as you upgrade them. Using Dill store and Fleet pets is often a bad idea on carrier builds and given the high resource cost I didn’t get why anyone would recommend them. Which is why I questioning your advice about upgrading something that I thought was a well known problem.
These numbers are not accurate but it goes along these lines, I will on my carrier build with some pets lines get over 100k DPS from rare pets, 70k DPS for advanced pets and 40k DPS from Elite pets this is repeatable in tests. Other pet lines like Stalker Squadrons will upgrade to advance and get zero benefit, then upgrade to Elite and get zero benefit or lose 1% DPS. So I advise people not to waste resources and stick with the basic rare pets.
“Also the advice I provided, would likely be helpful to many, despite the methods you choose to respond to my suggestions.”
I understand you are trying to be helpful but it feels like you misunderstood the reason behind this thread. The advice you gave is the very opposite to what I would have given as I see what you said as a waste of money. Those tokens are great but unless you love the way those carriers look you should not spend tokens on the full carriers as that is a waste. Those tokens are far better used on the other carriers which don’t have the nerfs and problems the full carriers do. Which is what this thread is about, the problem with the full carriers. By full carriers the players mean the carriers with 3/3 weapon slots as those carriers feel rather pointless and disappointing to use. They do look really nice but I have abandoned all my support carriers as there is zero reason to use them now. I had a reason before the pet Stealth nerfs of December 2020 but now no reason.
What I was trying to get across and sorry if it came across badly. Experimental tokens and fleet tokens do not solve the problem at hand and I do not understand why you think those tokens are good advice or helpful. People using those tokens are likely to feel even more disappointed after using them. If you only have limited tokens, I see using tokens on full carriers as bad advice. Skip the full carriers and use the token on the other carriers. Many of us have used fleet and experiential tokens on the full carriers and it was a mistake and waste of money leaving us feeling disappointed.
Outside of fluff reasons why would a player pick the so-called full carriers like the support carriers or Jupiter over the other carriers? That is why we are very disappointed with the support and full carriers. I am staying with carriers but unless the devs fix them I don’t see any reason to go back to using full carriers. Personally I am not convinced adding 2nd Deflector is the right path. They do need something adding to them, just not sure what is the best way to fix them. Flight Deck and other Carriers have made Full carriers like the Support Carriers absolute. I loved that the devs put out a carrier pack and they do look stunning but they are let down by the problems above.
EDIT @strathkin I am happy to do an extensive report on pet problems. If this will be useful please let me know what you need information wise and the best way to format the data.
it was presented in a patch or two ago they fixed the elite/ultra bug for pets. i dont do numbers, so i cant validate, but it was addressed, so they say.
From what I can see it was fixed for Advanced/Elite Lost Souls only. This needs double checking but it appears this fix did a HP nerf making Lost Souls die more. The same fix also broke my other pets like Stalker's Squadrons which used to do aprox 20% more DPS then now. All other pets I have tested are still broken and not fixed with the same style of Advanced/Elite bug that Lost Souls used to have. Lost Souls now perform correctly with advanced being better and Elite being best.
EDIT My post is unclear. Not all pets have the bug. I retested known problem pets so I only mean all pets out of what I retested.
I thought about this, too. They could add a special item like a secondary deflecter or experimental weapon, something like a 'communications array' with boni to pet range, health or launch speed (three types, like the three secondary deflectors). I wouldn't add a variant to directly boost pet weapon damage because, well, then they could just add a flat bonus since everyone will be using that
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
That's a good idea. Instead of secondary deflector a communications array for pet boosts. Only carriers or some carriers have access to the com array slot. There is also the option for a half sci/half pet boost coms array for the 3/3 sci Carriers so its not as good as full sci secondary deflector.
Replacing the built-in Subsystem Targeting abilities with something useful would be a good start for both carriers and science vessels that don't have any built-in specialization abilities.
Just 6% chance to knock a subsystem offline is pretty much useless and by the time the power drain has done what could be charitably called "significant damage" to the power levels, your target has most likely be vaporized by the rest of your group, even if it's just hangar pets.
I used to go with the Aspero as a carrier, before switching to the Ra'nodaire as at least, it has a battle cloak, singularity powers and can use the drone ships to make up for, well, being a sci carrier.
If you want an actual Starfleet carrier that looks like a carrier it's the Jupiter. Problem being the Sarr Theln freebie is a better carrier. And that's not even mentioning the fact that both are science ships with no secondary deflector. Hell, the Voth Bastion is better than both of them and it's a T5!
Comments
I agree that science carriers (what you call "standard") do need a boost of some kind.
I disagree with you completely that the science BOFF and Console layout is somehow inferior. Perhaps it is not what you like, but that certainly does not mean that the BOFF and Console layout is inferior.
No, seriously, look at it, this isn't opinion, it's fact, they have both fewer overall console and Boff slots than most other tier 6 ships. They only have about nine or ten consoles whilst most tier 6's have 11, this is on top of them having the weapons layout of a science ship without the secondary deflector and other abilities.
I misinterpretted, I appologize. You are absolutely correct, there is no reason the support carriers should have fewer BOFF seats. Carriers like the Jupiter do have the normal amount of BOFF seats. The fact that they have 10 consoles instead of 11 is not out of the ordinary however. They get the 11th console when upgraded to Fleet version.
I still have a guy flying the Jem Support Carrier because I think it looks cool.. but if he's going to do any serious content, the first thing I do is swap ships. He still does pretty well because he has Superior Area Denial but I fly the ship knowing it's inferior.
Just got to be in a Fleet, have earned some Fleet Credit, and have a Fleet Module to upgrade it. Be it from the free upgrades available from REP, purchased with Credit off the Exchange, or acquired with ZEN.
https://sto.gamepedia.com/Jupiter_Carrier
https://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_Jupiter_Carrier
Also the Bridge Stations on normal Carrier's is very standard to other ship's and quite flexible; I'd certainly ensure you have an Ultra Quality, or called Elite Hanger Pets. They are available in some REP's or at a Fleet Starbase Holdings... ...as someone else said they can be quite effective, but it also depends on how you build your ship.
Have you made the Fleet Version of the above, also upgraded with an Experimental Upgrade?
╙ That also gives another Starship Trait, on top of the 5th Trait unlockable at Fleet Research Stations.
╙ In Addition to another Console Slot.
Can earn two of them by saving Ultra Phoenix tokens, for when the Phoenix Events are also on.
Good Luck, and safe journey!
@strathkin just tagging you in as I would have thought after all the years and many bug reports this was well established and if not please look into it as I see you are a bug hunter. All the top carrier pilots I fly with use rare pets as bar a few expectations upgrading to Advanced or Elite makes them worse. This isn't aimed at you personally. I am just a little frustrated at the moment as everything I am trying in game is broken and bug reports do not seem to be doing anything.
Its really frustrating to spend over 60k dill on a set of pets only to have it worse then the basic version. Then go to the Fleet Starbase Holdings to by more starship equipment only to find everything I am buying is broken. Must have spent over 1 million dill on broken pets and items.
EDIT: Why would anyone want to do that? That doesn't solve the problem and just wastes money. Bar a few rare expectations I would advice any carrier pilot to ignore full carriers and not to waste any upgrade tokens on them. If the devs want us to spend upgrade tokens they should fix the problems with the full carrier ships. I know you are not a dev but it feels like you are advising people to waste money. Unless you really like the fluff of those ships, Experimental Upgrade and Fleet tokens is a terrible idea. Full Carriers are flawed and need fixing.
What Science carriers need is a secondary deflector slot. That alone would be enough.
Not really...plus that would just make Science more inferior
Carriers need a new trait package...one trait that boosts offense for sure and maybe another that boosts defense. Or a third hangar bay, but with squadrons being introduced more and more that would add up to more spam so probably not the best idea
Well I'll say I went back to Nov of 2019, and found only 1 mention in support - bug reports about a carrier pet. It was by one individual alone, and then they later admitted when they disbanded their carrier they've had for awhile, and reclaimed it they didn't notice any issues. Also most of the issue was focused on the consumable device not the pets themselves.
In Nov 2019 I found only (one) person who mentioned this:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1251986/elite-tactical-flyer-underperforming
"I'm having an issue with the Elite Tactical Flyer Squadron pets from the Miracle Worker Flight-Deck Carrier. No matter what I do, the pets damage will not increase (with the addition of Swarmer Matrix) and are underperforming damage wise from 10/24/19 onwards. I'm not sure if it's a bug or not, but I figured I should mention it."
In Aug-Sept 2019, there was one other report made by 2-3 others, but was mostly about Hanger Pet's not following orders for Attack, Defense, and I can confirm I previously experienced that one.
I also recently spoken to those who use Very Rare Pets from DIL Store, or Elite Pet's from REP or Fleet Starbase just fine. One of my Romulan's uses Elite Scorpion Fighters.
Also the advice I provided, would likely be helpful to many, despite the methods you choose to respond to my suggestions.
All I will say is Cryptic has events has given out a few free Experimental Upgrades, and just running an event for another currently. There are also ways to earn more in game with Ultra Phoenix Token's during the Phoenix Event. As for Fleet Modules those can be earned as I mentioned by completing REP to Tier VI as noted.
I've pinged the CM to 'check with their teams.
@ambassadorkael#6946
Still, I'm supportive of having new Carriers possibly getting 2nd Deflector; yet realize most SCI builds only have 3/3 weapons without the 1-2 Hanger Bays. Same goes for TAC Builds as they add a single Hanger or Experimental Weapon.
What they need to do is make sci carriers able to enhance their pets somehow. There are a few special abilities in game that let you do that, but they are associated with particular ships. What is needed is a few special pet-boosting abilities linked to sci carriers only. For example, pets launched from sci carriers could get a default defense bonus, making them harder to hit.
Though I like your suggestion in the 2nd Paragraph, it's constructive.
Note: The Breen Sarr Theln Carrier T6, also gives Reactive Repair Nanites, for those who earned thru Event or Phoenix Token.
╙ Hull Heals also heal your hanger pets within 5km of your target for 33% of healing caused.
Do I think Sci Carriers, might warrant a defensive boost to Hanger Pet's, I'm sure they could investigate.
There is as reason why all the top end players are flying around with Rare pets and never upgrade to Advance or Elite. Upgrading to advance is making the pets perform worse and upgrading to Elite is making them even worse than advance. Basically, they are back to front the more you upgrade them the worst they get on carrier builds. This does not affect every pet but it is very widespread. I haven’t got time right now but if you like I can go into far more detail. There is a major issue with pets getting worse as you upgrade them. Using Dill store and Fleet pets is often a bad idea on carrier builds and given the high resource cost I didn’t get why anyone would recommend them. Which is why I questioning your advice about upgrading something that I thought was a well known problem.
These numbers are not accurate but it goes along these lines, I will on my carrier build with some pets lines get over 100k DPS from rare pets, 70k DPS for advanced pets and 40k DPS from Elite pets this is repeatable in tests. Other pet lines like Stalker Squadrons will upgrade to advance and get zero benefit, then upgrade to Elite and get zero benefit or lose 1% DPS. So I advise people not to waste resources and stick with the basic rare pets.
I understand you are trying to be helpful but it feels like you misunderstood the reason behind this thread. The advice you gave is the very opposite to what I would have given as I see what you said as a waste of money. Those tokens are great but unless you love the way those carriers look you should not spend tokens on the full carriers as that is a waste. Those tokens are far better used on the other carriers which don’t have the nerfs and problems the full carriers do. Which is what this thread is about, the problem with the full carriers. By full carriers the players mean the carriers with 3/3 weapon slots as those carriers feel rather pointless and disappointing to use. They do look really nice but I have abandoned all my support carriers as there is zero reason to use them now. I had a reason before the pet Stealth nerfs of December 2020 but now no reason.
What I was trying to get across and sorry if it came across badly. Experimental tokens and fleet tokens do not solve the problem at hand and I do not understand why you think those tokens are good advice or helpful. People using those tokens are likely to feel even more disappointed after using them. If you only have limited tokens, I see using tokens on full carriers as bad advice. Skip the full carriers and use the token on the other carriers. Many of us have used fleet and experiential tokens on the full carriers and it was a mistake and waste of money leaving us feeling disappointed.
Outside of fluff reasons why would a player pick the so-called full carriers like the support carriers or Jupiter over the other carriers? That is why we are very disappointed with the support and full carriers. I am staying with carriers but unless the devs fix them I don’t see any reason to go back to using full carriers. Personally I am not convinced adding 2nd Deflector is the right path. They do need something adding to them, just not sure what is the best way to fix them. Flight Deck and other Carriers have made Full carriers like the Support Carriers absolute. I loved that the devs put out a carrier pack and they do look stunning but they are let down by the problems above.
EDIT
@strathkin I am happy to do an extensive report on pet problems. If this will be useful please let me know what you need information wise and the best way to format the data.
EDIT My post is unclear. Not all pets have the bug. I retested known problem pets so I only mean all pets out of what I retested.
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Just 6% chance to knock a subsystem offline is pretty much useless and by the time the power drain has done what could be charitably called "significant damage" to the power levels, your target has most likely be vaporized by the rest of your group, even if it's just hangar pets.
I used to go with the Aspero as a carrier, before switching to the Ra'nodaire as at least, it has a battle cloak, singularity powers and can use the drone ships to make up for, well, being a sci carrier.