test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
The game could really use more TOS (not Discovery) era designs
mattingly1
Member Posts: 206 Arc User
I'm a fan of the Ranger, even if I feel like someone took the NX-1701 refit and shoved the primary hull forward. And I own and fly both of the other temporal boats (although you have to admit that they both look more than a little like the awkward step sisters of the much more elegant USS Bonaventure).
But, aside from the Atlas (probably STO's strongest TOS-era ship, but I can't own one, since Romulan aligned players cannot captain it), I really feel like not only is there a distinct lack of craft from what is an almost universally-popular timeframe in the continuity*, but that the ones we have are kind of... uninspired.
I am well aware that fan ships are apparently dead to Cryptic, but one need only look at the magnificent designs of Bill Krause...
... to realize that some more risks can be taken with ships from TOS that produce really satisfying results that look quite simply like they 'belong.' And I'm not saying "LOLADDTHESENTINEL!" but rather that Cryptic themselves should sit down for a few days and hack out their own in-house designs that, like the Sentinel, do some things that we haven't seen before (as opposed to, as mentioned, a series of TOS ships that look suspiciously like kit-bashes of known quantities).
Additionally, there should also be more TOS-era Klingon and Romulan ships in their own right. Much as I love the Fed stuff, both of the other major factions had their own distinct style in this era. Aside from a legendary version (which I think we all want), the game does not need another D7/K'tinga variant, and my guess is that someone creative could crack out a few competing Romulan designs that don't boil down to "hey, let's see what happens when we smash a D'deridex and a T'liss togeth-- AHHH, KILL IT WITH FIRE!" without breaking the proverbial bank.
The game doesn't have to be flooded with TOS stuff, but a few designs added every year or so doesn't seem like too much to ask, either. I like the 'modern' look that STO has developed; I fly 25th-century ships a great deal. But the game could use just a bit more of that 1960s nostalgia... and not just in the form of Discovery knock-offs, which seem themselves to be enormously hit-and-miss/controversial.
*Seriously: I've never met anyone griping about TOS ships.
But, aside from the Atlas (probably STO's strongest TOS-era ship, but I can't own one, since Romulan aligned players cannot captain it), I really feel like not only is there a distinct lack of craft from what is an almost universally-popular timeframe in the continuity*, but that the ones we have are kind of... uninspired.
I am well aware that fan ships are apparently dead to Cryptic, but one need only look at the magnificent designs of Bill Krause...
... to realize that some more risks can be taken with ships from TOS that produce really satisfying results that look quite simply like they 'belong.' And I'm not saying "LOLADDTHESENTINEL!" but rather that Cryptic themselves should sit down for a few days and hack out their own in-house designs that, like the Sentinel, do some things that we haven't seen before (as opposed to, as mentioned, a series of TOS ships that look suspiciously like kit-bashes of known quantities).
Additionally, there should also be more TOS-era Klingon and Romulan ships in their own right. Much as I love the Fed stuff, both of the other major factions had their own distinct style in this era. Aside from a legendary version (which I think we all want), the game does not need another D7/K'tinga variant, and my guess is that someone creative could crack out a few competing Romulan designs that don't boil down to "hey, let's see what happens when we smash a D'deridex and a T'liss togeth-- AHHH, KILL IT WITH FIRE!" without breaking the proverbial bank.
The game doesn't have to be flooded with TOS stuff, but a few designs added every year or so doesn't seem like too much to ask, either. I like the 'modern' look that STO has developed; I fly 25th-century ships a great deal. But the game could use just a bit more of that 1960s nostalgia... and not just in the form of Discovery knock-offs, which seem themselves to be enormously hit-and-miss/controversial.
*Seriously: I've never met anyone griping about TOS ships.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
With use of fan ships it isn't a case of Cryptic hating them, but rather US laws (and remember Cryptic is California based company) being such that using fan designs isn't worth it.
Pretty much all canon TOS/TAS ships for UFP, Klingons or Romulans are used (I think there might be one D7 variant that's not used).
The fact of the matter is that TOS has a extremely limited pool of canon design and EU(aka official) designs don't add that much to it. Fan designs are pretty much impossible due to legal reasons as are designs that resemble those fan designs too much.
I know. What I'm saying is that they should do what they've pretty much done since the game launched, and just make stuff up. There are a million different ways to skin a cat that don't involve stealing someone else's IP. We're dealing with some fundamental pieces: 1-4 nacelles, a saucer (probably), some kind of engineering/main hull (probably), and a deflector dish (probably). You can arrange those parts in a LOT of different ways.
Frankly, the USS Sentinel - much as I adore it - is really just a TOS "neckless" Sovereign-class back-dated to the 23rd Century. It comes out looking so good because its a conscious nod to Star Trek's 'future,' much as it is its past. It would not take too much effort to come up with a dozen similar designs that don't borrow from anything but influences in the main canon.
> EU ships are a big maybe due to rights issues and fan made ships are a such a major legal headache that Cryptic is not gonna use them in the foreseeable future.
>
> With use of fan ships it isn't a case of Cryptic hating them, but rather US laws (and remember Cryptic is California based company) being such that using fan designs isn't worth it.
>
> Pretty much all canon TOS/TAS ships for UFP, Klingons or Romulans are used (I think there might be one D7 variant that's not used).
>
> The fact of the matter is that TOS has a extremely limited pool of canon design and EU(aka official) designs don't add that much to it. Fan designs are pretty much impossible due to legal reasons as are designs that resemble those fan designs too much.
I know. What I'm saying is that they should do what they've pretty much done since the game launched, and just make stuff up. There are a million different ways to skin a cat that don't involve stealing someone else's IP. We're dealing with some fundamental pieces: 1-4 nacelles, a saucer (probably), some kind of engineering/main hull (probably), and a deflector dish (probably). You can arrange those parts in a LOT of different ways.
Frankly, the USS Sentinel - much as I adore it - is really just a TOS "neckless" Sovereign-class back-dated to the 23rd Century. It comes out looking so good because its a conscious nod to Star Trek's 'future,' much as it is its past. It would not take too much effort to come up with a dozen similar designs that don't borrow from anything but influences in the main canon.
The Khenn I believe, which we know better as the Stormbird or simply Romulan D7. Its only an NPC ship. Not playable.
The reality is the Discovery era Enterprise, or others from Discovery were great updates, at least in my opinion. We'll also likely see more Ships, once Strange New Worlds launches with Pike & Spock in the pre-TOS era.
I'm also a huge fan of Discovery, especially with Season 3 being in the 32nd Century. I also like Burnham's character, despite many being conflicted about her. I also really wish we'd see a Grudge kitten &/or Cat in game of the same species at some point.
https://cbswatchmagazine.com/extras/star-trek-discovery-cat-grudge
We require Mane Coons!
They weren't updates...just concepts, a lot of thought was not put into them. As for any other ships of the line to come, CBS holds those cards, and given to how they feel about the Trek of old.
Don't expect much from them, if something happens, it will be a bloody miracle.
> While I'm all for a few of TOS improved ships being improved upon; specifically the Ranger.
>
> The reality is the Discovery era Enterprise, or others from Discovery were great updates, at least in my opinion.
>
> I'm also a huge fan of Discovery, especially with Season 3 being in the 32nd Century. I'm also like Burnham's character, despite many being conflicted about her. I also really wish we'd see a Grudge kitten &/or Cat in game of the same species at some point.
I don't like the Discovery-era's square nacelles and very harsh lines/color schemes. I'm also opposed to how those ships dwarf the TOS stuff. It's very hard to reconcile the two styles.
> In other words, what's in game already is pretty much all there's ever going to be of TOS-era ships. Everything else from the TOS era is going to come from Discovery's first 2 seasons and/or its spin off, Strange New Worlds. Anybody who can't handle that is just going to have to get over yourselves -- CBS/Paramount is driving; they have the final say with all things Star Trek.
Never is a very sweeping statement. I'm inclined to disregard it out-of-hand.
Real fans can tell the difference between Disco and TOS ships; Disco is hardly - not even remotely - the final say in TOS design. What's more, Discovery may have CBS' backing, but it's been widely acknowledged to have been a flop for All Access, and appears to only still be in production to suit some kind of political or cultural agenda. It does not, and will not, stand the test of time.
Hate to say it, but you're kinda wrong. DSC has been in the top 10 for Netflix viewings for a reasonable amount of time, irrespective of your opinion of whether it's been a flop. I'm also sorry to say that DSC and TOS ship designs will merge, whether people like it or not. It's not for the fans to dictate CBS policy. They run the ship, they are ST God, and they literally can dictate what appears in STO.
On a side note, I'm inclined to dismiss out of hand any statement that includes the phrase "true fans". Almost always, they dismiss me as not being a "true fan" for disagreeing with them, even though I've been watching the shows for so long that my earliest clear memory is of watching the classic NCC-1701 passing in front of one of those monochromatic-swirl planets that looked like my dad's bowling ball. (Now that the old eps have all been remastered, it's hard to figure out which one it was, but I think it was probably from the first season, because the memory includes my little sister graduating to the high chair for meals.)
I think people tend to forget that the original TOS Connie wasn't the absolute most advanced, cutting edge design. She was an old workhorse already by the time of TOS.
Honestly a lot of the DSC ships still fit into the overall Fed design philosophy. And respectfully... other than the Connie, we really never actually saw any other Fed design from the TOS era due to budget. While people have used the Connie asthetics to design other ships, on screen canon really has only the Connie as a reference. We see more Fed ships in the TMP era than we do TOS. So frankly... the DSC ships are a nice addition to that particular era. And some of them in game don't look too bad with the TOS Type 0 hull material.
No disagreement there, but we the fans do have the last say, and it is called the Power of the Purse. No buy, it doesn't sell.
> Hear, hear! I'd also like more Enterprise stuff; has a lot of potential, and I'm not happy with the way Discovery handled things (primarily the Klingons, but also the completely unnecessary Constitution redesign.
The Connie redesign is actually pretty decent - particularly the lighting. And while I don't like Disco's overall scaling because it makes the Starfleet of ~two decades later look like they experienced severe budget cuts and had to build in a smaller scale, with regards to the Enterprise specifically, the upsize made sense. Did you know that the neck of the original is (probably) only 9 feet in width?
The other good news about the appearance of the NCC-1701 in Discovery is that it confirmed that the timeline's 'future' remains the 60's style round nacelles, spinning bussards, clean hull lines, etc. - the technical people had just enough sense not to stomp all over TOS. And, since Michael Spockington has now traveled into a far future where she can cry every episode without risking trampling on any more surviving canon, I no longer have to worry about what the show does. She's someone else's problem now.
I was actually speaking mainly of the radically different angle of the nacelle pylons. Very jarring.
I'm inclined to agree. I think I'm looking forward more to Strange New Worlds (because Pike was probably the best part of S2) than I am to Disco S4. I stopped watching S3 the moment Jim Brass appeared in the snow with a newspaper.
"There's No Way Like Poway!"
Real Join Date: October 2010
Isn't that an old tech manual or FASA class and pretty much a no go, due to both being EU and part of the EU that's almost as problematic as fan works legally.
Love the Tos era stuff in this game, so much so that i just grabbed the Tos Holo crew, made a new Tos Kirk charactor, claimed the Tos holo crew as my Boff crew and i am now working towards getting them onto the legend Tos T6 Connie.....The adventure is just beginning.
Khenn was explained to be a no go due CBS veto a while back due to being an iconic Klingon design (well technically the D-7 is but the Khenn is just a D-7 with a bird decal).
The variant I was referring to was from TAS where it had a bulb like structure in place of the Torp launcher opening (that bulb had energy weapon IIRC but I'm not 100% sure).