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Experimental Tech upgrades, Epic prize tokens.

bcstarbcstar Member Posts: 335 Arc User
They are limited time in the Ultra rare. Just a thought but, would be nice to make them permanent however in exchange for a epic prize token, and instead of 2 upgrades make them x3. The ships are nice and all but personally, Those tokens would be a good option for those that like the ships they already have. Just my thoughts.
klingon%2Bbird%2Bof%2Bprey.jpg

"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"

Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on

Comments

  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    I fail to see the benefits of this idea.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,573 Arc User
    The UR Token exchange for two T6X Upgrade Tokens should just be permant addition to the Phoenix Store. We don't need everything in the game tied to a bloody Event or Pseudo-Event.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • bcstarbcstar Member Posts: 335 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    The UR Token exchange for two T6X Upgrade Tokens should just be permant addition to the Phoenix Store. We don't need everything in the game tied to a bloody Event or Pseudo-Event.

    Yeah I Agree, I don't know why it says limited time. it is pretty much fine how it is, but should be permanent. I was more or less offering an alternative but either way.
    klingon%2Bbird%2Bof%2Bprey.jpg

    "bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"

    Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,602 Arc User
    bcstar wrote: »
    ltminns wrote: »
    The UR Token exchange for two T6X Upgrade Tokens should just be permant addition to the Phoenix Store. We don't need everything in the game tied to a bloody Event or Pseudo-Event.

    Yeah I Agree, I don't know why it says limited time. it is pretty much fine how it is, but should be permanent. I was more or less offering an alternative but either way.

    The alternative is the already available C-Store purchase, which in all honesty, it's far better to do than hope for a UR or EPIC drop.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,190 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    bcstar wrote: »
    ltminns wrote: »
    The UR Token exchange for two T6X Upgrade Tokens should just be permant addition to the Phoenix Store. We don't need everything in the game tied to a bloody Event or Pseudo-Event.

    Yeah I Agree, I don't know why it says limited time. it is pretty much fine how it is, but should be permanent. I was more or less offering an alternative but either way.

    The alternative is the already available C-Store purchase, which in all honesty, it's far better to do than hope for a UR or EPIC drop.

    True, but also that would be an incentive fore some dilithium sinking
    The forces of darkness are upon us!
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    gaevsman wrote: »
    True, but also that would be an incentive fore some dilithium sinking

    This.

    I would even go a step further.. but I know it would never happen. Remove the Upgrades from the C-Store completely and then make them permanent additions to the Phoenix Boxes. I would also change the Phoenix Variant to make them tradeable so that they could be sold on the exchange. I would do this entirely to create a valid dilithium sink, people will buy boxes trying to get these tokens. Making them available on the exchange also still provides a method of getting them without gambling.

    If someone wanted to just buy the tokens for cash, they still could buy buying keys and selling them for EC. The game needs a good strong Dilithium Sink and these seem like a wasted opportunity to provide just that.

    I strongly believe that this would put a fairly good cut into the Dilithium Exchange Rate. If it doesn't for some reason, you can always revert back.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • bcstarbcstar Member Posts: 335 Arc User
    gaevsman wrote: »
    True, but also that would be an incentive fore some dilithium sinking

    This.

    I would even go a step further.. but I know it would never happen. Remove the Upgrades from the C-Store completely and then make them permanent additions to the Phoenix Boxes. I would also change the Phoenix Variant to make them tradeable so that they could be sold on the exchange. I would do this entirely to create a valid dilithium sink, people will buy boxes trying to get these tokens. Making them available on the exchange also still provides a method of getting them without gambling.

    If someone wanted to just buy the tokens for cash, they still could buy buying keys and selling them for EC. The game needs a good strong Dilithium Sink and these seem like a wasted opportunity to provide just that.

    I strongly believe that this would put a fairly good cut into the Dilithium Exchange Rate. If it doesn't for some reason, you can always revert back.

    I really Like this Idea!! ^
    klingon%2Bbird%2Bof%2Bprey.jpg

    "bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"

    Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
  • daimon97daimon97 Member Posts: 373 Arc User
    bcstar wrote: »
    gaevsman wrote: »
    True, but also that would be an incentive fore some dilithium sinking

    This.

    I would even go a step further.. but I know it would never happen. Remove the Upgrades from the C-Store completely and then make them permanent additions to the Phoenix Boxes. I would also change the Phoenix Variant to make them tradeable so that they could be sold on the exchange. I would do this entirely to create a valid dilithium sink, people will buy boxes trying to get these tokens. Making them available on the exchange also still provides a method of getting them without gambling.

    If someone wanted to just buy the tokens for cash, they still could buy buying keys and selling them for EC. The game needs a good strong Dilithium Sink and these seem like a wasted opportunity to provide just that.

    I strongly believe that this would put a fairly good cut into the Dilithium Exchange Rate. If it doesn't for some reason, you can always revert back.

    I really Like this Idea!! ^

    Seconded!
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    gaevsman wrote: »
    True, but also that would be an incentive fore some dilithium sinking

    This.

    I would even go a step further.. but I know it would never happen. Remove the Upgrades from the C-Store completely and then make them permanent additions to the Phoenix Boxes. I would also change the Phoenix Variant to make them tradeable so that they could be sold on the exchange. I would do this entirely to create a valid dilithium sink, people will buy boxes trying to get these tokens. Making them available on the exchange also still provides a method of getting them without gambling.

    If someone wanted to just buy the tokens for cash, they still could buy buying keys and selling them for EC. The game needs a good strong Dilithium Sink and these seem like a wasted opportunity to provide just that.

    I strongly believe that this would put a fairly good cut into the Dilithium Exchange Rate. If it doesn't for some reason, you can always revert back.

    I also like this idea.
  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,190 Arc User
    gaevsman wrote: »
    True, but also that would be an incentive fore some dilithium sinking

    This.

    I would even go a step further.. but I know it would never happen. Remove the Upgrades from the C-Store completely and then make them permanent additions to the Phoenix Boxes. I would also change the Phoenix Variant to make them tradeable so that they could be sold on the exchange. I would do this entirely to create a valid dilithium sink, people will buy boxes trying to get these tokens. Making them available on the exchange also still provides a method of getting them without gambling.

    If someone wanted to just buy the tokens for cash, they still could buy buying keys and selling them for EC. The game needs a good strong Dilithium Sink and these seem like a wasted opportunity to provide just that.

    I strongly believe that this would put a fairly good cut into the Dilithium Exchange Rate. If it doesn't for some reason, you can always revert back.

    I love your idea too.. but i dont think it will happen.. but thr uphrades i the box are already there and just need to be enabled..
    The forces of darkness are upon us!
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 6,085 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    gaevsman wrote: »
    True, but also that would be an incentive fore some dilithium sinking

    This.

    I would even go a step further.. but I know it would never happen. Remove the Upgrades from the C-Store completely and then make them permanent additions to the Phoenix Boxes. I would also change the Phoenix Variant to make them tradeable so that they could be sold on the exchange. I would do this entirely to create a valid dilithium sink, people will buy boxes trying to get these tokens. Making them available on the exchange also still provides a method of getting them without gambling.

    If someone wanted to just buy the tokens for cash, they still could buy buying keys and selling them for EC. The game needs a good strong Dilithium Sink and these seem like a wasted opportunity to provide just that.

    I strongly believe that this would put a fairly good cut into the Dilithium Exchange Rate. If it doesn't for some reason, you can always revert back.

    Making them tradeable on the exchange and eliminating the control that the c-store version provides would drive the prices into whale-only territory and drive up the value of zen because the main way of getting huge chunks of EC is via zen-bought keys. It would also effectively lock a vital must have item exclusively into a gamble box, something that is rather shady and the game is trying to avoid (or has been so far).
  • This content has been removed.
  • daimon97daimon97 Member Posts: 373 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    gaevsman wrote: »
    True, but also that would be an incentive fore some dilithium sinking

    This.

    I would even go a step further.. but I know it would never happen. Remove the Upgrades from the C-Store completely and then make them permanent additions to the Phoenix Boxes. I would also change the Phoenix Variant to make them tradeable so that they could be sold on the exchange. I would do this entirely to create a valid dilithium sink, people will buy boxes trying to get these tokens. Making them available on the exchange also still provides a method of getting them without gambling.

    If someone wanted to just buy the tokens for cash, they still could buy buying keys and selling them for EC. The game needs a good strong Dilithium Sink and these seem like a wasted opportunity to provide just that.

    I strongly believe that this would put a fairly good cut into the Dilithium Exchange Rate. If it doesn't for some reason, you can always revert back.

    Making them tradeable on the exchange and eliminating the control that the c-store version provides would drive the prices into whale-only territory and drive up the value of zen because the main way of getting huge chunks of EC is via zen-bought keys. It would also effectively lock a vital must have item exclusively into a gamble box, something that is rather shady and the game is trying to avoid (or has been so far).

    You do realize that IF what you say will happen actually does happen, than the price of keys will plummet into the ground as the market gets flooded with them and than people won't use zen to get EC to buy the upgrades...right? And than you will see people sell of their zen to get dil to get the tokens themselves. Which will lower the dil to zen rate. Which is the whole point of this exercise.

    Also this is a want item...not a need...but if you feel this is a need...fine have it so you get one free token after you open say 100 boxes of the kind that is not tradeable once per account.

    This is so true
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    gaevsman wrote: »
    True, but also that would be an incentive fore some dilithium sinking

    This.

    I would even go a step further.. but I know it would never happen. Remove the Upgrades from the C-Store completely and then make them permanent additions to the Phoenix Boxes. I would also change the Phoenix Variant to make them tradeable so that they could be sold on the exchange. I would do this entirely to create a valid dilithium sink, people will buy boxes trying to get these tokens. Making them available on the exchange also still provides a method of getting them without gambling.

    If someone wanted to just buy the tokens for cash, they still could buy buying keys and selling them for EC. The game needs a good strong Dilithium Sink and these seem like a wasted opportunity to provide just that.

    I strongly believe that this would put a fairly good cut into the Dilithium Exchange Rate. If it doesn't for some reason, you can always revert back.

    Making them tradeable on the exchange and eliminating the control that the c-store version provides would drive the prices into whale-only territory and drive up the value of zen because the main way of getting huge chunks of EC is via zen-bought keys. It would also effectively lock a vital must have item exclusively into a gamble box, something that is rather shady and the game is trying to avoid (or has been so far).

    You do realize that IF what you say will happen actually does happen, than the price of keys will plummet into the ground as the market gets flooded with them and than people won't use zen to get EC to buy the upgrades...right? And than you will see people sell of their zen to get dil to get the tokens themselves. Which will lower the dil to zen rate. Which is the whole point of this exercise.

    Also this is a want item...not a need...but if you feel this is a need...fine have it so you get one free token after you open say 100 boxes of the kind that is not tradeable once per account.

    Yeah, I didn't really understand the thinking of that reply either.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 6,085 Arc User
    .....
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    gaevsman wrote: »
    True, but also that would be an incentive fore some dilithium sinking

    This.

    I would even go a step further.. but I know it would never happen. Remove the Upgrades from the C-Store completely and then make them permanent additions to the Phoenix Boxes. I would also change the Phoenix Variant to make them tradeable so that they could be sold on the exchange. I would do this entirely to create a valid dilithium sink, people will buy boxes trying to get these tokens. Making them available on the exchange also still provides a method of getting them without gambling.

    If someone wanted to just buy the tokens for cash, they still could buy buying keys and selling them for EC. The game needs a good strong Dilithium Sink and these seem like a wasted opportunity to provide just that.

    I strongly believe that this would put a fairly good cut into the Dilithium Exchange Rate. If it doesn't for some reason, you can always revert back.

    Making them tradeable on the exchange and eliminating the control that the c-store version provides would drive the prices into whale-only territory and drive up the value of zen because the main way of getting huge chunks of EC is via zen-bought keys. It would also effectively lock a vital must have item exclusively into a gamble box, something that is rather shady and the game is trying to avoid (or has been so far).

    You do realize that IF what you say will happen actually does happen, than the price of keys will plummet into the ground as the market gets flooded with them and than people won't use zen to get EC to buy the upgrades...right? And than you will see people sell of their zen to get dil to get the tokens themselves. Which will lower the dil to zen rate. Which is the whole point of this exercise.

    Also this is a want item...not a need...but if you feel this is a need...fine have it so you get one free token after you open say 100 boxes of the kind that is not tradeable once per account.

    If the X-upgrades only worked on T5/T5u ships to bring them close to T6 that would be a "want" because it would not add to power creep. But they don't work that way so they effectively increase the power level cap, and eventually content gets adjusted because people complain about boredom. They are not an absolute must have now, but they will drift in that direction, it is inevitable the way game power balance works.

    And if it did indeed plummet the value of keys as you say then that would be a bad thing since it would effectively increase the cost of anything bought with them, like popular T6 ships on the exchange.

    Then there is the stigma of placing power increase items (which the X-upgrade token certainly is) in a gamble-only scheme without a fixed-price direct cash buy option, a practice that may even become outright illegal in some parts of the world soon (if it isn't already). And no, the ability to trade or buy excess gambled-for tokens from the exchange does not mitigate that problem.
  • daimon97daimon97 Member Posts: 373 Arc User
    .....
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    gaevsman wrote: »
    True, but also that would be an incentive fore some dilithium sinking

    This.

    I would even go a step further.. but I know it would never happen. Remove the Upgrades from the C-Store completely and then make them permanent additions to the Phoenix Boxes. I would also change the Phoenix Variant to make them tradeable so that they could be sold on the exchange. I would do this entirely to create a valid dilithium sink, people will buy boxes trying to get these tokens. Making them available on the exchange also still provides a method of getting them without gambling.

    If someone wanted to just buy the tokens for cash, they still could buy buying keys and selling them for EC. The game needs a good strong Dilithium Sink and these seem like a wasted opportunity to provide just that.

    I strongly believe that this would put a fairly good cut into the Dilithium Exchange Rate. If it doesn't for some reason, you can always revert back.

    Making them tradeable on the exchange and eliminating the control that the c-store version provides would drive the prices into whale-only territory and drive up the value of zen because the main way of getting huge chunks of EC is via zen-bought keys. It would also effectively lock a vital must have item exclusively into a gamble box, something that is rather shady and the game is trying to avoid (or has been so far).

    You do realize that IF what you say will happen actually does happen, than the price of keys will plummet into the ground as the market gets flooded with them and than people won't use zen to get EC to buy the upgrades...right? And than you will see people sell of their zen to get dil to get the tokens themselves. Which will lower the dil to zen rate. Which is the whole point of this exercise.

    Also this is a want item...not a need...but if you feel this is a need...fine have it so you get one free token after you open say 100 boxes of the kind that is not tradeable once per account.

    If the X-upgrades only worked on T5/T5u ships to bring them close to T6 that would be a "want" because it would not add to power creep. But they don't work that way so they effectively increase the power level cap, and eventually content gets adjusted because people complain about boredom. They are not an absolute must have now, but they will drift in that direction, it is inevitable the way game power balance works.

    And if it did indeed plummet the value of keys as you say then that would be a bad thing since it would effectively increase the cost of anything bought with them, like popular T6 ships on the exchange.

    Then there is the stigma of placing power increase items (which the X-upgrade token certainly is) in a gamble-only scheme without a fixed-price direct cash buy option, a practice that may even become outright illegal in some parts of the world soon (if it isn't already). And no, the ability to trade or buy excess gambled-for tokens from the exchange does not mitigate that problem.

    I feel like for the sake of balance they will also nerf the MW ships abit, since its unfair how they get max 13 console slots while everyone else gets 12 max, not to mention the abilities to mix up cannons and beams and so on...
  • This content has been removed.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 6,085 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    .....
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    gaevsman wrote: »
    True, but also that would be an incentive fore some dilithium sinking

    This.

    I would even go a step further.. but I know it would never happen. Remove the Upgrades from the C-Store completely and then make them permanent additions to the Phoenix Boxes. I would also change the Phoenix Variant to make them tradeable so that they could be sold on the exchange. I would do this entirely to create a valid dilithium sink, people will buy boxes trying to get these tokens. Making them available on the exchange also still provides a method of getting them without gambling.

    If someone wanted to just buy the tokens for cash, they still could buy buying keys and selling them for EC. The game needs a good strong Dilithium Sink and these seem like a wasted opportunity to provide just that.

    I strongly believe that this would put a fairly good cut into the Dilithium Exchange Rate. If it doesn't for some reason, you can always revert back.

    Making them tradeable on the exchange and eliminating the control that the c-store version provides would drive the prices into whale-only territory and drive up the value of zen because the main way of getting huge chunks of EC is via zen-bought keys. It would also effectively lock a vital must have item exclusively into a gamble box, something that is rather shady and the game is trying to avoid (or has been so far).

    You do realize that IF what you say will happen actually does happen, than the price of keys will plummet into the ground as the market gets flooded with them and than people won't use zen to get EC to buy the upgrades...right? And than you will see people sell of their zen to get dil to get the tokens themselves. Which will lower the dil to zen rate. Which is the whole point of this exercise.

    Also this is a want item...not a need...but if you feel this is a need...fine have it so you get one free token after you open say 100 boxes of the kind that is not tradeable once per account.

    If the X-upgrades only worked on T5/T5u ships to bring them close to T6 that would be a "want" because it would not add to power creep. But they don't work that way so they effectively increase the power level cap, and eventually content gets adjusted because people complain about boredom. They are not an absolute must have now, but they will drift in that direction, it is inevitable the way game power balance works.

    And if it did indeed plummet the value of keys as you say then that would be a bad thing since it would effectively increase the cost of anything bought with them, like popular T6 ships on the exchange.

    Then there is the stigma of placing power increase items (which the X-upgrade token certainly is) in a gamble-only scheme without a fixed-price direct cash buy option, a practice that may even become outright illegal in some parts of the world soon (if it isn't already). And no, the ability to trade or buy excess gambled-for tokens from the exchange does not mitigate that problem.

    The price of keys plummeting is based on WHAT YOU SAID WOULD HAPPEN. Not based on anything I said would happen with the idea. In fact, I don't think ANYTHING you said would happen would happen...but if your theory is correct and it does happen, the price of keys crashing would be the logical economic result of it...or...are you one of the people who don't understand basic economics?

    What the blazes are you talking about? EVERYTHING on normal difficulty for this game can be done in a T1 by TRIBBLE gamers like me. T3 is all that is needed for advanced. Good gamers can still use T1 ships. Elites...okay SOME of that needs a T5 (not T5-U or T5-X...and yeah some of that can be done in a T3 ship still) for me...but great gamers once again still only need a T1 ship. Unless they make the game something like 200000% harder, you don't NEED anything beyond a T1 ship for normal.

    And the stigma if selling power in a gamble box...looks at the ships in the promo pile...yeah I think they are okay with that stigma.

    I understand basic economics well enough, I have even had classes in it though I did not major in it. I tend to craft a lot in games that support it in an interesting way (like Black Desert and a few others), had stores in Second Life for years (though that was a while ago), etc., so I have a general feel for what goes on in game economies too, and how they interact with cash shops and whatnot.

    I suspect that we subscribe to very different theories of economics, which is ok, it is not like it is basic arithmetic where everything sticks to rigid formulas and there is only one right answer.

    I have not done much with the exchange in STO, I don't really find the economic side of this game that interesting, I tend to tinker with builds and do light roleplay instead here, but I have seen enough of how it works to be reasonably confident that removing the fixed price c-store version of the X-upgrades would cause the exchange price of them to skyrocket. The C-store version acts as competition to keep that from happening, just like things set up like that do in other games.

    Putting powerful or otherwise desirable ships in a gamble structure is not the same as putting a wide application persistent powerup that can boost even those powerful ships in one, especially in a way that is so ripe for exploitations by speculators as the one you suggest.

    Mudd's Market shows that STO is trying to step back from the gamble box mechanic a bit so having the primary way of getting the X-upgrades be the c-store and the gamble part just a random bonus of doing normal upgrading makes a lot of sense.

    And I never said the game was impossible to get through without top end ships, but gaming in general has drifted away from hardcore combat towards a more casual style and causals often see blowing up as an immersion break. That combined with the fact that the upper end hardcore DPS players can often clear a map before the casuals can get in range to shoot anything is already causing problems. The current mass-wave stuff is a symptom of that, a balance move to give casuals something that will not just bounce their fire to shoot at but in enough numbers that the hardcores don't vaporize them all instantly.

    At the end of the day it does not really even matter if things like the X-upgrades actually are must-have game changers or not as long as that is the perception, so putting them at the mercy of speculators is a bad move.
This discussion has been closed.