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Add Catians to TOS starfleet.

darkwing228darkwing228 Member Posts: 83 Arc User
Now, I've played all of the different starts in STO, except for the TOS, but one thing confuses me, why is it that the only races available are human, Andorian, Telerite and Vulcan. Considering that the Catiens were first introduced and originally only appeared in the TOS with their next appearance not being until lower decks, why is it that they aren't among the playable races there for those that have already unlocked them, I doubt it would take too much work to import them in and it would make sense and be a nice nod to the fact that before lower decks, TOS was their only on-screen appearance.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Comments

  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 7,058 Arc User
    They actually were not in TOS, they were in TAS. While this may seem like semantics, they actually said in an interview before AoY that the TOS faction was ONLY TOS and that TAS did not count.
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  • darkwing228darkwing228 Member Posts: 83 Arc User
    They actually were not in TOS, they were in TAS. While this may seem like semantics, they actually said in an interview before AoY that the TOS faction was ONLY TOS and that TAS did not count.

    Okay, understandable.
  • darkwing228darkwing228 Member Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    They actually were not in TOS, they were in TAS. While this may seem like semantics, they actually said in an interview before AoY that the TOS faction was ONLY TOS and that TAS did not count.

    Although it wasn't just TAS, they also appeared in the motion picture which forgive me if I am wrong is still considered part of TOS, infact, one of the starfleet admirals at the time was shown to be a catian.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 59,174 Community Moderator
    edited November 2020
    Word on the grapevine though is that we may be getting M'Ress hair for Caitians.
    Also a Caitian appeared in ST4.

    And I would like to know why I can't link pics from Memory Alpha...
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,668 Arc User
    add aliens to it, too.


    Disco got to have that.
    dvZq2Aj.jpg
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 7,058 Arc User
    They actually were not in TOS, they were in TAS. While this may seem like semantics, they actually said in an interview before AoY that the TOS faction was ONLY TOS and that TAS did not count.

    Although it wasn't just TAS, they also appeared in the motion picture which forgive me if I am wrong is still considered part of TOS, infact, one of the starfleet admirals at the time was shown to be a catian.

    Before AoY launched the devs explained that their definition of TOS was only the original 3 live action seasons. TAS and the movies did not count. Personally I don't think it would have hurt to include TAS stuff since that followed the same design aesthetic as TOS, but for whatever reason the devs drew the line at the end of TOS season 3.
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  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,336 Arc User
    add aliens to it, too.


    Disco got to have that.

    Discovery got to have aliens because they showed alien crewmembers amongst the officers on the ships we saw the most of.

    TOS was limited to either Vulcan or humans on screen for starfleet officers (too expensive at the time to keep running other kinds of makeup at the time for each time they wanted to include an andorian or tellarite in the crew).

    We know there were other aliens, but they are trying to keep things pretty close to what they can allow as possible.

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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 6,085 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    One of the early episodes of TAS has dialog to the effect that the crew diversification was made possible by advances in the life support and medical fields that made it practical to have more than just a few closely related species on board.

    Also, Starfleet was not quite as homogenous earlier, while they only had the Constitution class model to work with the setup was actually more like a United Nations Peacekeeping Force drawn from the member worlds in some ways. In fact early in TOS Kirk identified the Enterprise as being a UESPA ship (and yes, I know I will get an argument about this statement even though if you watch the series he actually does say it).

    Apparently one of the few areas were DSC technology actually leads TOS tech instead of lagging far behind is that they obviously have the medical and life support tech to support TAS and even TNG style crew mix levels.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,558 Arc User
    I know it was referred to as "United Earth" in the first pilot, and the UESPA was referenced when discussing the downed ship they found at Talos IV, but did Kirk use the term? I guess I'll have to go rewatch the first few episodes. Oh, the horror. :smile:

    I do know that the UFP, Starfleet Command, the Klingons, the Romulans, and a number of other things came from Gene Coon, not Gene Roddenberry, and weren't introduced until several episodes in.
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,573 Arc User
    'Charlie X' and 'Tomorrow is Yesterday'. Kirk used the term in those.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 59,174 Community Moderator
    Personally I don't think it would have hurt to include TAS stuff since that followed the same design aesthetic as TOS, but for whatever reason the devs drew the line at the end of TOS season 3.

    I think for a while the canon status of TAS was in question. For a long time it seemed to flip-flop between canon and non-canon. Right now I think the pendulum has swung back to canon, especially now with Lower Decks being a thing.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,745 Arc User
    They actually were not in TOS, they were in TAS. While this may seem like semantics, they actually said in an interview before AoY that the TOS faction was ONLY TOS and that TAS did not count.

    otherwise I want Lt Arrexx
    We Want Vic Fontaine
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 59,174 Community Moderator
    otherwise I want Lt Arrexx

    Well... we did see a member of his species in Lower Decks...
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
    colored text = mod mode
  • faelon#8433 faelon Member Posts: 362 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Word on the grapevine though is that we may be getting M'Ress hair for Caitians.
    Also a Caitian appeared in ST4.

    And I would like to know why I can't link pics from Memory Alpha...

    I was going to say, wasn't there one or more Caitians in Voyage Home? In the background scenes either at Starfleet or on the Saratoga? (I've never been sure if the one officer with the long white hair, facial hair and funky eyes was one?)

    Also since we've gotten the Caitians can we not get the Endosians? Now that we have also met them in Lower Decks? (And please please please give us the Black and Red ship of the damned!)
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 6,085 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    I know it was referred to as "United Earth" in the first pilot, and the UESPA was referenced when discussing the downed ship they found at Talos IV, but did Kirk use the term? I guess I'll have to go rewatch the first few episodes. Oh, the horror. :smile:

    I do know that the UFP, Starfleet Command, the Klingons, the Romulans, and a number of other things came from Gene Coon, not Gene Roddenberry, and weren't introduced until several episodes in.

    Actually, the Romulans were invented by Paul Schneider because of a tip about Roddenberry's fondness for the Romans that D.C. Fontana gave him when he was having trouble getting his adaptation of The Enemy Below accepted. Somehow a myth started that the script was Coon's but he was one of the few who had nothing to do with it.

    All in all it was Schneider who wrote the drafts, then John D.F. Black did the first polish pass, then Roddenberry did the final finish to the script. Unfortunately, as it went to copy someone noticed the 'error' of some unknown offbeat weapon called a "photon torpedo" and 'corrected' it to "phaser" which is how Trek ended up with the complication of the "proximity blast" phaser setting, and why it looks exactly like a photon torpedo when fired.

    After the Romulans were established they were turned over to D.C. Fontana who fleshed them out more for use in later episodes (though with the show's cancellation there was only one more that featured them and used only a small part of the information).
  • psiameesepsiameese Member Posts: 1,650 Arc User
    I'm perpetuating the rumor that Caitians could easily appear at some point during the future Strange New Worlds series. Perfect way to bridge any gaps between Discovery and The Original Series. Time will tell...then STO could justify spreading the Caitians around a bit more across factions. ;)
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 6,085 Arc User
    If SNL does do them it would be good if they got them right, something that has so far eluded any of the live action movies that attempted to show them in the foreground.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,284 Arc User
    it's cat people - it is ridiculously hard to TRIBBLE up cat people especially when you have a clear example of what they're supposed to look like...and yet, the wing commander movie still managed to do exactly that

    they had one job...ONE JOB, and they couldn't even do that right!​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

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  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,435 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Word on the grapevine though is that we may be getting M'Ress hair for Caitians.
    Also a Caitian appeared in ST4.

    And I would like to know why I can't link pics from Memory Alpha...

    I was going to say, wasn't there one or more Caitians in Voyage Home? In the background scenes either at Starfleet or on the Saratoga? (I've never been sure if the one officer with the long white hair, facial hair and funky eyes was one?)

    Also since we've gotten the Caitians can we not get the Endosians? Now that we have also met them in Lower Decks? (And please please please give us the Black and Red ship of the damned!)

    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Efrosian You mean these guys? Obviously they're not catians.

    TUC catians looked like this https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Caitian

    Endosian as playable is very unlikely due to their 100% unique model skeleton, now we might get NPCs from that race but PCs are highly unlikely,
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 6,085 Arc User
    The funny thing about the Efrosians is that they make a great symmetry between the Federation and their close neighbors the Klingons. In TOS they showed some of the more human looking Klingons and later shows the almost Klingon looking Efrosians.

    In theory, especially with the Ancient seeding and multiple old interstellar communities like the Kalandans, the Orions, and especially the Preservers going about their business and even outright moving people around, the area really should have a lot of different-yet-similar Humanoids, Klingonoids, and Vulcanoids like it does.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 59,174 Community Moderator
    it's cat people - it is ridiculously hard to TRIBBLE up cat people especially when you have a clear example of what they're supposed to look like...and yet, the wing commander movie still managed to do exactly that

    they had one job...ONE JOB, and they couldn't even do that right!​​

    Yea... instead of the lions...
    340?cb=20111208201752

    we got naked lions with fu manchu beards.
    rock3.jpg

    However most of the WC3 Kilrathi looked quite stiff in their movements, like they could only move their arms from the elbows down, but that's probably due to the costumes. Hobbes didn't really have that problem, but he did tend to hang his arms awkwardly compared to humans.
    Gotta love the 90s prosthetics and animatronics. ;)
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
    colored text = mod mode
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,435 Arc User
    The WC movie Kilrathi weren't that bad as a base design but it needed more hair and better lighting.

    That said we got live-action catians thanks to TUC you could probably use that design just upgrade the mouth articulation.
  • darkwing228darkwing228 Member Posts: 83 Arc User
    True. But can we all agree that JJ somehow managed to royally TRIBBLE up the catians in his films. I mean seriously, those twins were meant to be catians? I think he's been looking at too much henti, they looked more like nekos
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,284 Arc User
    i don't think they WERE meant to be caitians - that guy who said they were to a question about it clearly didn't actually know what a caitian was​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,435 Arc User
    I think it was less due female poultry neck decorations and more due a combination of lack of research and wanting "something sexy".
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,016 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    > @darkwing228 said:
    > True. But can we all agree that JJ somehow managed to royally TRIBBLE up the catians in his films. I mean seriously, those twins were meant to be catians? I think he's been looking at too much henti, they looked more like nekos

    Check the design process of those characters. They were never meant to be Caitian, as Shadowfang pointed out. They are just pretty generic aliens, with the more exotic looking variations having been dismissed in favour of basically having humans with tails.

    The infamous quote why everyone believes they are Caitians was clearly a off-hand comment by someone neither caring nor knowing what they were replying to. However, what puzzles me more is why the question came up in the first place, as the designs look nothing, not remotely, alike.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
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    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • flash525flash525 Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
    I don't get why the TOS and DISCO factions have such a limited choice.

    If my memory serves, TOS doesn't even have the Tellarite option, and DISCO is lacking both the Tellarite and Andorian (despite them both being active in Starfleet as admirals at this time). I get not enabling the Bajoran, Benzite or Cardassian, but to gloss over the founding members of the Federation?

    Couldn't Cryptic have allowed for a little more originality too? Give something unique to DISCO or TOS players? Kelpien for DISCO, maybe Deltan for TOS (I'm thinking cause of TMP film).

    I'd like to point out that we've seen Saurian's on Discovery, and Caitian's in TMP(era); they're both available for the 2409 timeline despite neither of them having appeared in TNG, DS9 or VOY.

    Vulcan's would not be happy with the lack of logic here.
    attachment.php?attachmentid=42556&d=1518094222
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 6,085 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    i don't think they WERE meant to be caitians - that guy who said they were to a question about it clearly didn't actually know what a caitian was​​

    Actually, they were meant to be caitian, the writers said that in interviews, and the shooting script describes them as caitian. Needless to say they were not happy with the abominations in the movie.

    Abrams was hesitant to use them and wanted to tone down the cat features a bit (a likely theory is that he was worried about backlash from viewers seeing it as beastiality), to something more like nekkos (which the twins are not, the lack the ears and eyes and the only (vaguely) cat feature they have are the tails, and those look more like monkey tails than cat) instead of an anamorphic furry.

    The biggest problem was that M'ress's features were a kind of illusion that is easy to do in drawings but nearly impossible to do physically without the result looking freakish and ugly. For one thing she didn't have a muzzle as such, she had that split upper lip and a modified but still mostly human nose. On top of that all the attempts to put fur on the actresses' faces came out looking like something out of one of the old Lon Chaney wolfman movies, and ended up rejected.

    Then the makeup department came up with the idea of using that variant of screened makeup to suggest a very very fine and patterned fur which would work in the low lighting of the scene. Unfortunately, when they tried putting a swath of it on to test the idea and went to Abrams to see what he thought of it he took it as the final version and said to stop working on alternates and they would go with that exact makeup. So we end up with what looks more like Trill with the spots running down the center of their faces and having monkey tails instead of anything resembling caitians in the least.
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