How to choose between a Locators or Exploiters?

galacticgoo

I’m looking for a simple way to choose between a Locators or Exploiters.

I’ve read everything on the internet, and it is clear as mud for my application. And most of these discussions are for space/ground with baby Jesus (or baby noodle) level gear.

I have zero interest in elite content. As well as obtaining lock box or lobi gear, no thanks. But I do own all c-store ships for all 56 of my characters (all are at T6 rep for all reps and level 15 in all R&D) to draw consoles and traits for them. Last, for fun I use all the ship specific consoles/sets. I level all of them together so they are at the same place. Last, I’m a big fan of Omni’s and each has 3 Omni’s in the back (except plasma, curse you Cryptic!) and for kiss purposes all weapons will have 4 CrtD (or 3 CrtD and proc, yea space barbie).

For reference, generally, my cruisers do about 80k (all energy weapons), Cannon/Torpedo Escorts 95k and science ships around 120k. In space the average CrtH is 29 and CrtD is 127(or 207 counting the weapon specific CritD or the proc weapons at 187 with only 3 CrtD). Also, each character’s ship is x level.

Next outfitting step is tactical consoles.

So, how do I determine my CrtH and CrtD in STO to determine whether to get Locators or Exploiters or a combination? In theory it should be simpler since I don’t have all the fancy toys the elite guys have, in theory.

To my untrained eye, I’m short CrtD. But the meta says get all CrtH consoles.

westx211

Generally you want all locators. Its much harder to get meaningful crit chance boosts, but so easy to get crit severity boosts.

seaofsorrows

coldnapalm wrote: »

Locators...you want locators. On weapons crtH is 2% while crtD is 20%...so anything less than 1 to 10 ratio means you go for the crtH...generally speaking.

To expand on this a bit, CrtH is 2% for that individual weapon only.

While a console that grants you 2% critical chance, grants it for your entire ship so it covers all weapons.

For this reason, the advisable formula is to improve Critical Chance through your consoles, Traits and Skills. Severity can be improved on Weapons, and if you run out of critical boosting consoles then work on Severity. It should be noted though, when you do this, your statistics in space will not be accurate. If your weapons are CrtD, they only apply that bonus when a critical is scored, so it will not show up in your stats when you're just sitting in sector space because you haven't scored a critical hit.

There are some builds where Exploiters might be recommended, but in most standard energy builds rather it's beams or cannons you should almost always go Locators over Exploiters. Exploiters are for very specialized builds and if you were running one of those builds, you would know.

For more in depth descrption, I would suggest checking the following links provided by the STO-League team.

Beam Ships in the Current Century.
Cannon Ships in the Current Century.

I hope you find them helpful.

peterconnorfirst

As usual Napalm and Sea covered it well.

For numbers crunchers there should be calculators in the www around helping to math it out for what slot to fill you get a better return for your selection.

Whats crazy is that things might change at some point with cryptic being so loose on power creep.

Getting 50ish%+ Crit H ship wide is not a big deal on nowadays builds. Now that’s without all the circumstantial and temporal (activation based) stuff around. With it combat logs show that one of my fed toons, Neela, actually chills with mid 80ish% Critical Hits through some ISEs.

Now she knows the new trait Terran Goodbye that would grant her another 15% Crit H scratching the 100%. Shal I get it for her?

If one is at such a point more considerations might be in order as critical hits should cap at 100% or offer no more uses there while Crit D does not know such limits.

Certainly interesting times ahead.

peterconnorfirst

The product of Crit H and Crit D is counted as bonus dmg in the STO dmg formula and gets summed up with our other bonus dmg sources. Then it gets multiplied with other things like basic dmg increases.

In my experience there are no ratios to aim at for Crit H & D just to see to get the product of it as high as possible *but* under consideration of other dmg sources that could grant a larger benefit in the respected slot to fill.

seaofsorrows

peterconnorfirst wrote: »

Now she knows the new trait Terran Goodbye that would grant her another 15% Crit H scratching the 100%. Shal I get it for her?

I almost got it, but decided against it. I know it's super good, but I am just tired of spending 800M-1.2B for just traits. Especially considering they can just nerf it in a week, or the next ship will have something better and I'll have to save up for that.

I have so many traits that I don't use anymore that I once paid a premium for.. the formula is just starting to get old for me, but you're more 'space rich' then I am.

peterconnorfirst

> @seaofsorrows said:
> (Quote)
>
> I almost got it, but decided against it. I know it's super good, but I am just tired of spending 800M-1.2B for just traits. Especially considering they can just nerf it in a week, or the next ship will have something better and I'll have to save up for that.
>
> I have so many traits that I don't use anymore that I once paid a premium for.. the formula is just starting to get old for me, but you're more 'space rich' then I am.

You surely point out the way of reason here. Then again you are not the one with Neela in your neck. 🙋🏻‍♀️👊🏻😡

Good part is I can wait at least a few more days with my decision until prices begin to climb. 🤨

peterconnorfirst

> @westmetals said:
> (Quote)
>
> Well see that's the thing... with the available consoles, you get to a point where, all else being equal, you may be able to increase that product by changing out one console. That point tends to be right at about that ratio (or crit hit to severity) I mentioned.
>
> For example... if you're at 40% CrtH and 200% CrtD, with one tac slot vacant... adding either a Locator or an Exploiter would have the same benefit.
>
> You are kinda right in the sense that the ratio of those two stats to everything else... really doesn't matter. (i.e. the above example is also true if you're at 20% and 100%.)
>
> If you're already at a higher ratio (your crit severity is more than five times your crit hit), then a Locator is a better choice. In my experience, the vast majority of builds are in this range, or will be after the first or second console changeout.

Thank you for reply. 😏

You are right and Im not much of an expert here but I am curious. This example of 40% H and 200% Crit D you give will likely result in a certain amount of bonus dmg, right?

What if somebody for some reason has 80% crit H and 100% crit D, is the result in bonus dmg the same or different?

foxrockssocks

You want the 1:5 ratio roughly. That balance is what keeps you getting more damage at the best rate. I did the math for this in an earlier thread some months back, but I don't know if you can find that now.

Think of it like this: If you're critting 80%, with 100% crit d, someone else critting 40% with 200% crit d is doing the same damage as you. They crit half as often, but twice as hard, which means the net result is the same. Thus, we can easily see that person with 40% crit and 250% critd would be doing more damage than both of you.

That isn't completely accurate, but its close enough to understand the principle I hope.

peterconnorfirst

I got the concept of wanting the product of crit H and D as high as possible as well as the principle behind critical hit chance and severity, yea.

What I have trouble understanding is why maximizing it should be guided by a certain ratio between them. 🤔

peterconnorfirst

Roger oki @westmetals, I think I got it as far as the consoles on their own are concerned. 😏

You suggest to freeze the OPs build as it is now and mix and match the spire consoles to his current crit values as far as we can tell them.

Hm. I never viewed it that way because with a 100% certainty his numbers will change over time. He did rule out stuff but the moment he gets things like the Bio neural console from lobi store, one of the energy weapons officer from doffing or traits like Terran targeting his values will change again and he could find to have made the wrong call with the tac consoles. That does not even include the benefit of circumstantial but super powerful stuff like intel flanking.

I’d rather play it save and get the high end solution here right from start especially as he already called it to be meta.

Nevertheless the topic is interesting, now more than ever.

Considering the warp speed we head for 100% Crit H without crippling ourselves we can get at least then view one part of Crit product fixed.

Who knows, perhaps exploiter will be the new meta in the future. 🤓

——————-
@seaofsorrows feel free to shoot Neela next time you see her. She decided to buy that stupid Terran Warship for 650M short before maintenance. 🙆🏻‍♀️👊🏻

pottsey5g

There are a few rare exceptions like with mines which don't fit neatly into the 1:5 or 1:10 ratio due to the weird way they critical. As long as I am not remembering wrong Some EPG builds might want to consider different if they have Particle Manipulator they might be better off with Exploiters? I believe Science powers criticals are based off Crit Serverity? I need to refresh myself on Sci builds been ages since I ran one as playing around with Carriers.

pottsey5g

westmetals wrote: »

pottsey5g wrote: »

There are a few rare exceptions like with mines which don't fit neatly into the 1:5 or 1:10 ratio due to the weird way they critical. As long as I am not remembering wrong Some EPG builds might want to consider different if they have Particle Manipulator they might be better off with Exploiters? I believe Science powers criticals are based off Crit Serverity? I need to refresh myself on Sci builds been ages since I ran one as playing around with Carriers.

Technically science powers benefit from both, however there is a trait that applies only to EPG powers, and can give up to +50% crit hit.

https://sto.gamepedia.com/Trait:_Particle_Manipulator

... meaning that even without any crit from consoles AND without a colony deflector (just using traits, boffs, and endeavour), an EPG ship might have a static crit hit over 70%.

Thank you for confirming as I wasn't 100% sure it was like that as its been a while. So with a colony deflector there is a good argument for those builds using Exploiters.

peterconnorfirst

> @westmetals said:
> That's why I said to do the consoles last... I don't personally calculate based on temporary boosts (like intel flanking). The things like BOFFs, traits, etc, AND weapon reengineering should be done before choosing the consoles, yes.
>
> "I’d rather play it save and get the high end solution here right from start especially as he already called it to be meta." Except it's not automatically the meta. People just think it is.

Wow, that surely is a hell of a lot of people. 😃

Do you happen to have an example for your calculations? Perhaps from one of your own builds.

What gets me confused a bit is that you chose not to include temporal/circumstantial parts of your Crit values while min maxing via tac consoles to the static ones at your respective frozen build only. You do mention traits you include but sadly so many the starship traits appear to be very wild.

So what’s the numbers you use for calculation vs. let say, your real values recorded in your average combat log?

peterconnorfirst

Yo, what’s problematic for me it seems is that I do log.

Not only are my real critical values a lot higher than I can read out from the ship stats, they are also under a great deal of flux depending on the respective Infected Space run.

As far as the weapons mods are concerned @lordcruncher made some mathematical approach on the DPS league Homepage a year or so ago. There he concluded that DMG outweights CritD depending on the overall bonus dmg a player/team can bring. In high end scenarios the benefit points to the DMG mod.

When peeps build ships they do so with an optimum goal in mind instead of min/maxing at every stage of their respective ship building progress. I suppose that is the reason why we see the DMG mod so often on guns.

It’s at least my take on it as I would not want to min max all the time against these variables. That does not even include all the new releases we get all the time that have the habit to push power on all levels even further.

galacticgoo

Thank you all for responding.

Using the STO Combat Meter it says my CrtH is 42.96% (kind of amazing with no lobi or lockbox consoles/traits). With the data provided by the Combat Meter, is it possible to calc your CrtD?

Watching the Stats tab I noticed the CrtH/CrtD go up and down together maintaining whatever ratio they had (a I assume this is an advantage of not having lockbox/lobi stuff?)

Making a giant WAG, using STO Combat Meter data to calc the CrtH/CrtD (if possible) we would want to ratio to be 10:1? And to achieve this you’ll need a 5:1 ratio of your baseline in the Stats window to accomplish that.

Last, a little confusing here, are you guys using the sum of all the CrtD of all the energy weapons? Or the critD for each individual weapon? And then taking an average of of all 8 weapons?