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Gravity Kills

jagdtier44jagdtier44 Member Posts: 376 Arc User
So, we've all played it a bunch, I'm sure there's gotta be.. someone out there that enjoys Gravity Kills but in all honestly, and not in a rage from just playing it, but I sincerely hope whoever came up with the idea of Gravity Kills no longer works on the game.

Why? Because look at the TFO, there is no "good way" to do Gravity kills, fast ships die to the barrages and massed torpedo spreads, slow tanky ships get bogged down in the Tzenkethi ship clusters + gravity well pulling. Getting and delivering the particles is a hassle with the interruptions, the constant attacks both around the gathering areas and the Jupiter and it takes far to many particles to charge up the Jupiter to take out a base, and the TFO simply keeps ramping up with each base destroyed.

There is nothing redeeming, enjoyable or strategic about Gravity kills, its a slog to get through, everything about it is overly punishing and its the one TFO beyond all others that should be removed from this game, it's literally trash, just a festering pile of strewn garbage that someone slapped together and another Dev should of said "Ok so what's the strat people will use to beat this?" and when the first Dev shrugged and said "I dunno.. but I think we need more enemy ships that buff each other, high damage barrages and un-dodgeable torpedo spreads and an optional based around keeping a stationary carrier under constant attack alive" the plug should of been pulled on the TFO and the person reassigned in the company

It's bad when it's just faster to bail out and wait out the timer than to actually try and play the thing, far less frustrating too.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on

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    rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,147 Community Moderator
    It WAS more strategic when it first came out actually, because the Black Hole also affected the Tzenkethi ships as well, and it was a viable tactic to push them into it. Eventually though they made it so the Tzenkethi weren't affected, and it kinda devolved into what you described. When the Tzenkethi were affected by the Black Hole, we had a lot more creative options for dealing with the enemy ships.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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    jagdtier44jagdtier44 Member Posts: 376 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    rattler2 wrote: »
    It WAS more strategic when it first came out actually, because the Black Hole also affected the Tzenkethi ships as well, and it was a viable tactic to push them into it. Eventually though they made it so the Tzenkethi weren't affected, and it kinda devolved into what you described. When the Tzenkethi were affected by the Black Hole, we had a lot more creative options for dealing with the enemy ships.

    I'm assuming this was before random was a thing? Because I could see that possibly being a thing "hey wanna run GK?" ugh.. sure let me put on Repulsors..

    But even if it was still a thing it being in the random queue would still be a pain because that's not a common power to run, even less common to see it without the pull doff instead so it would still suck.

    I guess what bothers me the most is we've seen them pull arcs out of the game because they are old and out of date, but they won't take something that's pretty much universally hated by the players and yank it from random and leave it as something you can run with a group if you desire to punish yourselves.
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    rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,147 Community Moderator
    I don't know about "universally" hated. But it is a bit of a pain for a lot of builds.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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    ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,571 Arc User
    And yet it will show up as a Universal Endeavor.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
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    rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,147 Community Moderator
    ltminns wrote: »
    And yet it will show up as a Universal Endeavor.

    A Universal Endeavor that can be ignored. lol
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • Options
    foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    This is definitely an unenjoyable STF. While there are obvious strategies to beat it, they are well, stupid. You can't fight through it because by design, everything respawns extremely quickly if not instantly. Therefore the only answer to keep the space turtles away from the Jupiter or the stations is continuous gravity well baby sitting with some other means of getting them away in the first place. But, gravity well to pull them all together only makes them stronger, so do it wrong and you just make it worse. Add to that the insane damage output they can manage and surprise, no fun to be had.

    Usually all I can do is put power to engines and run in circles powering up the Jupiter, even on science ships I tend not to bother trying to grav well trap them because someone is going to kill them and then they respawn out of range of the well.
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    trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    I actually do enjoy this one, and want more TFO's like it. I'm tired of mindless and boring pewfests that reward you just for showing up, that has become the new normal.

    On this one, I give my respect to Cryptic. It's a challenge, something this game sorely lacks. But one cannot blame the designer for what is the fault of the players. This is one TFO where the normal, "Just DPS" doesn't work. This is the failure of the players.

    The one thing that can be blamed on Cryptic here is that in Phase 2 and Phase 3 the ships are spawning on top of the Jupiter. Instead of about 10km away like they use to. Use to be able to grav well these and keep in the stew pot where they spawned in.

    As for pushing the Tzenkethi into the black hole. It's still viable. Does it kill them, I dunno, but it does keep the away from the station for a good amount of time, meaning they don't respawn and particle gathering just got easier.
    Mm5NeXy.gif
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    ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    So... next featured Event Gravity Kills? <3
    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
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    eazzieeazzie Member Posts: 4,050 Arc User
    @darkbladejk More a Featured Ep. events and pve content thread ?
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    fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,904 Arc User
    This is one of the most fun missions in the game.

    Precisely because you need to stay alert and do more than just shooting enemies.


    Tzenkethi torpedoes can be annoying, yes, but if you just make sure to have more than one heal (or healing based on outgoing damage, through the Iconian reputation trait for example) it's hardly a problem. Sure, it means you may have to sacrifice some tactical skills or offensive traits - but if you're unwilling to make that sacrifice, that's the player's problem, not the content's. Not every piece of content needs to be something you can easily shoot your way through.

    Go play one of the dozens of other missions that provide that, if that's what you're looking for.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.

    [6/12 9:59][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 24097 (13711) Physical Damage(Critical) to Elite Tactical Drone
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    fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,904 Arc User
    Literally everything mentioned in the opening post is something that can be solved by the player himself - if the player is willing to look for solutions. As far as they are problems anyway, instead of simple misconceptions like the second point below:


    - Put some speed boosters on your ship if you feel getting the particles takes too long

    - tanking ships don't need to be slow, fast ships do not need to be vulnerable to an incoming torpedo spread

    - constant attacks around the Jupiter are targeting the Jupiter, not the players. Evade them, or ignore them by just using aforementioned speed boosts

    - keeping the Jupiter alive is hardly a challenge - if you think about the heals you are using. Use tactical team on the Jupiter instead of science team for example.

    - And of course players should be bothered to heal it at all - you don't want to know how often I've been in the mission with two players camping near the Jupiter only pew pewing, resulting in me having to throw it heals while flying hence and forth. Again, hardly a problem of the content, more a problem of lazy players who don't seem to know the effects of some of the most basic abilities in the game.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.

    [6/12 9:59][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 24097 (13711) Physical Damage(Critical) to Elite Tactical Drone
  • Options
    fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,904 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    This is definitely an unenjoyable STF. While there are obvious strategies to beat it, they are well, stupid. You can't fight through it because by design, everything respawns extremely quickly if not instantly. Therefore the only answer to keep the space turtles away from the Jupiter or the stations is continuous gravity well baby sitting with some other means of getting them away in the first place. But, gravity well to pull them all together only makes them stronger, so do it wrong and you just make it worse. Add to that the insane damage output they can manage and surprise, no fun to be had.

    Usually all I can do is put power to engines and run in circles powering up the Jupiter, even on science ships I tend not to bother trying to grav well trap them because someone is going to kill them and then they respawn out of range of the well.

    That's the case in so many missions.

    Battle at the Binary stars: no point in keeping killing enemies. Assault on Terok Nor: pushing an enemy away prevents spawning of new ones. Same for Borg Disconnected. Gateway to Grethor: no point in killing enemies as that's not the goal of the main part of the mission. Battle of Procyon V, same story.

    There are so many missions that are set up the same way as Gravity Kills. It's not the developers fault that the majority of the players are by default in 'must shoot everything instead of reading the objective and use my brain' mode. Nor is it their fault that these patterns are, apparently, not recognised.


    Communicate with your team, divide tasks with one player throwing gravity wells well out of range of the Jupiter or pushing them away, have some fast players collect the particles while another one covers them... it really isn't that hard. You can even just keep killing them if you do want to shoot your way through the mission.


    And if a mission that requires some coordination is not enjoyable to you - then don't play it. Some players actually want to play missions that require some tactics and cooperation.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.

    [6/12 9:59][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 24097 (13711) Physical Damage(Critical) to Elite Tactical Drone
  • Options
    fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,904 Arc User
    As for the random rotation: I'll say what I've said before on that topic, also when they cut out infected ground:
    if you don't want to risk playing a mission that you may be unprepared for, don't use a feature that entirely revolves around not knowing what you're going to get.

    Players really ought to quit whining about not easily getting the bonus rewards from random missions. You want the bonus rewards, you take the uncertainty that comes with it - and for which you are rewarded.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.

    [6/12 9:59][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 24097 (13711) Physical Damage(Critical) to Elite Tactical Drone
  • Options
    foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    This is definitely an unenjoyable STF. While there are obvious strategies to beat it, they are well, stupid. You can't fight through it because by design, everything respawns extremely quickly if not instantly. Therefore the only answer to keep the space turtles away from the Jupiter or the stations is continuous gravity well baby sitting with some other means of getting them away in the first place. But, gravity well to pull them all together only makes them stronger, so do it wrong and you just make it worse. Add to that the insane damage output they can manage and surprise, no fun to be had.

    Usually all I can do is put power to engines and run in circles powering up the Jupiter, even on science ships I tend not to bother trying to grav well trap them because someone is going to kill them and then they respawn out of range of the well.

    That's the case in so many missions.

    Battle at the Binary stars: no point in keeping killing enemies. Assault on Terok Nor: pushing an enemy away prevents spawning of new ones. Same for Borg Disconnected. Gateway to Grethor: no point in killing enemies as that's not the goal of the main part of the mission. Battle of Procyon V, same story.

    There are so many missions that are set up the same way as Gravity Kills. It's not the developers fault that the majority of the players are by default in 'must shoot everything instead of reading the objective and use my brain' mode. Nor is it their fault that these patterns are, apparently, not recognised.


    Communicate with your team, divide tasks with one player throwing gravity wells well out of range of the Jupiter or pushing them away, have some fast players collect the particles while another one covers them... it really isn't that hard. You can even just keep killing them if you do want to shoot your way through the mission.


    And if a mission that requires some coordination is not enjoyable to you - then don't play it. Some players actually want to play missions that require some tactics and cooperation.


    No mission is acceptable with instantly respawning infinite enemies, and not all the ones you listed are like that, but many are. Borg Disconnected, for as boring as that one is, at least killing the enemies can be done and they don't instantly respawn. You have time to breathe there, to rescue the ships if you kill enemies. It isn't as absolutely pointless as it is in Gateway to Grethor or Gravity kills.
  • Options
    fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,904 Arc User
    This is definitely an unenjoyable STF. While there are obvious strategies to beat it, they are well, stupid. You can't fight through it because by design, everything respawns extremely quickly if not instantly. Therefore the only answer to keep the space turtles away from the Jupiter or the stations is continuous gravity well baby sitting with some other means of getting them away in the first place. But, gravity well to pull them all together only makes them stronger, so do it wrong and you just make it worse. Add to that the insane damage output they can manage and surprise, no fun to be had.

    Usually all I can do is put power to engines and run in circles powering up the Jupiter, even on science ships I tend not to bother trying to grav well trap them because someone is going to kill them and then they respawn out of range of the well.

    That's the case in so many missions.

    Battle at the Binary stars: no point in keeping killing enemies. Assault on Terok Nor: pushing an enemy away prevents spawning of new ones. Same for Borg Disconnected. Gateway to Grethor: no point in killing enemies as that's not the goal of the main part of the mission. Battle of Procyon V, same story.

    There are so many missions that are set up the same way as Gravity Kills. It's not the developers fault that the majority of the players are by default in 'must shoot everything instead of reading the objective and use my brain' mode. Nor is it their fault that these patterns are, apparently, not recognised.


    Communicate with your team, divide tasks with one player throwing gravity wells well out of range of the Jupiter or pushing them away, have some fast players collect the particles while another one covers them... it really isn't that hard. You can even just keep killing them if you do want to shoot your way through the mission.


    And if a mission that requires some coordination is not enjoyable to you - then don't play it. Some players actually want to play missions that require some tactics and cooperation.


    No mission is acceptable with instantly respawning infinite enemies, and not all the ones you listed are like that, but many are. Borg Disconnected, for as boring as that one is, at least killing the enemies can be done and they don't instantly respawn. You have time to breathe there, to rescue the ships if you kill enemies. It isn't as absolutely pointless as it is in Gateway to Grethor or Gravity kills.

    Then don't kill them - if you already know it is pointless to do so.

    It works in Borg Disconnected, fewer enemies will spawn if fewer ones are killed.

    I'm offering (pretty obvious I might note) solutions here, whether you use them or not is up to you.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.

    [6/12 9:59][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 24097 (13711) Physical Damage(Critical) to Elite Tactical Drone
  • Options
    trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    This is definitely an unenjoyable STF. While there are obvious strategies to beat it, they are well, stupid. You can't fight through it because by design, everything respawns extremely quickly if not instantly. Therefore the only answer to keep the space turtles away from the Jupiter or the stations is continuous gravity well baby sitting with some other means of getting them away in the first place. But, gravity well to pull them all together only makes them stronger, so do it wrong and you just make it worse. Add to that the insane damage output they can manage and surprise, no fun to be had.

    Usually all I can do is put power to engines and run in circles powering up the Jupiter, even on science ships I tend not to bother trying to grav well trap them because someone is going to kill them and then they respawn out of range of the well.

    That's the case in so many missions.

    Battle at the Binary stars: no point in keeping killing enemies. Assault on Terok Nor: pushing an enemy away prevents spawning of new ones. Same for Borg Disconnected. Gateway to Grethor: no point in killing enemies as that's not the goal of the main part of the mission. Battle of Procyon V, same story.

    There are so many missions that are set up the same way as Gravity Kills. It's not the developers fault that the majority of the players are by default in 'must shoot everything instead of reading the objective and use my brain' mode. Nor is it their fault that these patterns are, apparently, not recognised.


    Communicate with your team, divide tasks with one player throwing gravity wells well out of range of the Jupiter or pushing them away, have some fast players collect the particles while another one covers them... it really isn't that hard. You can even just keep killing them if you do want to shoot your way through the mission.


    And if a mission that requires some coordination is not enjoyable to you - then don't play it. Some players actually want to play missions that require some tactics and cooperation.


    No mission is acceptable with instantly respawning infinite enemies, and not all the ones you listed are like that, but many are. Borg Disconnected, for as boring as that one is, at least killing the enemies can be done and they don't instantly respawn. You have time to breathe there, to rescue the ships if you kill enemies. It isn't as absolutely pointless as it is in Gateway to Grethor or Gravity kills.

    Actually on this one, if you have a team, or get a team that can actually keep killing. It'll level up that ship mastery pretty fast. So this one can have a use other than marks.

    But again, this does still require that the players know what they are doing. I do random a lot. I get this one on occasion, so I've seen great teams and I've seen teams like, "Are you even sure you know how to fly your ship?"

    An truly, this one is the reason I originally slotted TBR. Now, I use all the time, I've found very few circumstances where it's not useful.
    Mm5NeXy.gif
  • Options
    foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    This is definitely an unenjoyable STF. While there are obvious strategies to beat it, they are well, stupid. You can't fight through it because by design, everything respawns extremely quickly if not instantly. Therefore the only answer to keep the space turtles away from the Jupiter or the stations is continuous gravity well baby sitting with some other means of getting them away in the first place. But, gravity well to pull them all together only makes them stronger, so do it wrong and you just make it worse. Add to that the insane damage output they can manage and surprise, no fun to be had.

    Usually all I can do is put power to engines and run in circles powering up the Jupiter, even on science ships I tend not to bother trying to grav well trap them because someone is going to kill them and then they respawn out of range of the well.

    That's the case in so many missions.

    Battle at the Binary stars: no point in keeping killing enemies. Assault on Terok Nor: pushing an enemy away prevents spawning of new ones. Same for Borg Disconnected. Gateway to Grethor: no point in killing enemies as that's not the goal of the main part of the mission. Battle of Procyon V, same story.

    There are so many missions that are set up the same way as Gravity Kills. It's not the developers fault that the majority of the players are by default in 'must shoot everything instead of reading the objective and use my brain' mode. Nor is it their fault that these patterns are, apparently, not recognised.


    Communicate with your team, divide tasks with one player throwing gravity wells well out of range of the Jupiter or pushing them away, have some fast players collect the particles while another one covers them... it really isn't that hard. You can even just keep killing them if you do want to shoot your way through the mission.


    And if a mission that requires some coordination is not enjoyable to you - then don't play it. Some players actually want to play missions that require some tactics and cooperation.


    No mission is acceptable with instantly respawning infinite enemies, and not all the ones you listed are like that, but many are. Borg Disconnected, for as boring as that one is, at least killing the enemies can be done and they don't instantly respawn. You have time to breathe there, to rescue the ships if you kill enemies. It isn't as absolutely pointless as it is in Gateway to Grethor or Gravity kills.

    Then don't kill them - if you already know it is pointless to do so.

    It works in Borg Disconnected, fewer enemies will spawn if fewer ones are killed.

    I'm offering (pretty obvious I might note) solutions here, whether you use them or not is up to you.


    ????

    I'm not asking anyone for help or solutions. I've been playing some of these STFs before some of the people here even started playing this game, I'm sure. I know how they work and why they suck.

    And obviously, fewer enemies spawn in BD if you kill less, the issue, though is you have to deal with existing spawns somehow to rescue the Borg. Yes I also know it is possible to avoid killing them entirely to rescue the ships. Also killing enemies in BD increases score, whether it matters enough or not to be worth it is another question, however again, BD was not designed to punish you for killing enemies, as they don't insta respawn, and when they do respawn they may ignore you for other enemies.

    Maybe I wasn't clear, but I don't like playing a glorified FedEx driver in Gravity Kills, or a mobile F dispenser (yes I know there are spots you can literally sit still and close the gates, isn't that exciting?) in Gateway to Grethor, where killing enemies does absolutely nothing of value.
    trennan wrote: »
    This is definitely an unenjoyable STF. While there are obvious strategies to beat it, they are well, stupid. You can't fight through it because by design, everything respawns extremely quickly if not instantly. Therefore the only answer to keep the space turtles away from the Jupiter or the stations is continuous gravity well baby sitting with some other means of getting them away in the first place. But, gravity well to pull them all together only makes them stronger, so do it wrong and you just make it worse. Add to that the insane damage output they can manage and surprise, no fun to be had.

    Usually all I can do is put power to engines and run in circles powering up the Jupiter, even on science ships I tend not to bother trying to grav well trap them because someone is going to kill them and then they respawn out of range of the well.

    That's the case in so many missions.

    Battle at the Binary stars: no point in keeping killing enemies. Assault on Terok Nor: pushing an enemy away prevents spawning of new ones. Same for Borg Disconnected. Gateway to Grethor: no point in killing enemies as that's not the goal of the main part of the mission. Battle of Procyon V, same story.

    There are so many missions that are set up the same way as Gravity Kills. It's not the developers fault that the majority of the players are by default in 'must shoot everything instead of reading the objective and use my brain' mode. Nor is it their fault that these patterns are, apparently, not recognised.


    Communicate with your team, divide tasks with one player throwing gravity wells well out of range of the Jupiter or pushing them away, have some fast players collect the particles while another one covers them... it really isn't that hard. You can even just keep killing them if you do want to shoot your way through the mission.


    And if a mission that requires some coordination is not enjoyable to you - then don't play it. Some players actually want to play missions that require some tactics and cooperation.


    No mission is acceptable with instantly respawning infinite enemies, and not all the ones you listed are like that, but many are. Borg Disconnected, for as boring as that one is, at least killing the enemies can be done and they don't instantly respawn. You have time to breathe there, to rescue the ships if you kill enemies. It isn't as absolutely pointless as it is in Gateway to Grethor or Gravity kills.

    Actually on this one, if you have a team, or get a team that can actually keep killing. It'll level up that ship mastery pretty fast. So this one can have a use other than marks.

    But again, this does still require that the players know what they are doing. I do random a lot. I get this one on occasion, so I've seen great teams and I've seen teams like, "Are you even sure you know how to fly your ship?"

    An truly, this one is the reason I originally slotted TBR. Now, I use all the time, I've found very few circumstances where it's not useful.

    Well, I'll just stick to patrols for mastery. I'm not sure STFs can beat them, nor do I want to subject other people to Gravity Kills just because I want to level a ship. A lot of these insta respawn queues do not give XP for ship kills, though.

    TBR does have its uses. The question of course is what are you sacrificing for that slot, and do you have enough power, aux and ctrlx, for that to be useful in any given build? In many cases it doesn't work out well. Funny thing is, an EPG oriented ship can be a problem with TBR and grav wells because they can easily kill the ships you are just trying to relocate.
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    legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    jagdtier44 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    It WAS more strategic when it first came out actually, because the Black Hole also affected the Tzenkethi ships as well, and it was a viable tactic to push them into it. Eventually though they made it so the Tzenkethi weren't affected, and it kinda devolved into what you described. When the Tzenkethi were affected by the Black Hole, we had a lot more creative options for dealing with the enemy ships.

    I'm assuming this was before random was a thing? Because I could see that possibly being a thing "hey wanna run GK?" ugh.. sure let me put on Repulsors..

    But even if it was still a thing it being in the random queue would still be a pain because that's not a common power to run, even less common to see it without the pull doff instead so it would still suck.

    I guess what bothers me the most is we've seen them pull arcs out of the game because they are old and out of date, but they won't take something that's pretty much universally hated by the players and yank it from random and leave it as something you can run with a group if you desire to punish yourselves.

    just let kael play it - i guarantee it will be gone by next patch

    and while we're at it, he can play assault on terok nor too​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • Options
    trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    This is definitely an unenjoyable STF. While there are obvious strategies to beat it, they are well, stupid. You can't fight through it because by design, everything respawns extremely quickly if not instantly. Therefore the only answer to keep the space turtles away from the Jupiter or the stations is continuous gravity well baby sitting with some other means of getting them away in the first place. But, gravity well to pull them all together only makes them stronger, so do it wrong and you just make it worse. Add to that the insane damage output they can manage and surprise, no fun to be had.

    Usually all I can do is put power to engines and run in circles powering up the Jupiter, even on science ships I tend not to bother trying to grav well trap them because someone is going to kill them and then they respawn out of range of the well.

    That's the case in so many missions.

    Battle at the Binary stars: no point in keeping killing enemies. Assault on Terok Nor: pushing an enemy away prevents spawning of new ones. Same for Borg Disconnected. Gateway to Grethor: no point in killing enemies as that's not the goal of the main part of the mission. Battle of Procyon V, same story.

    There are so many missions that are set up the same way as Gravity Kills. It's not the developers fault that the majority of the players are by default in 'must shoot everything instead of reading the objective and use my brain' mode. Nor is it their fault that these patterns are, apparently, not recognised.


    Communicate with your team, divide tasks with one player throwing gravity wells well out of range of the Jupiter or pushing them away, have some fast players collect the particles while another one covers them... it really isn't that hard. You can even just keep killing them if you do want to shoot your way through the mission.


    And if a mission that requires some coordination is not enjoyable to you - then don't play it. Some players actually want to play missions that require some tactics and cooperation.


    No mission is acceptable with instantly respawning infinite enemies, and not all the ones you listed are like that, but many are. Borg Disconnected, for as boring as that one is, at least killing the enemies can be done and they don't instantly respawn. You have time to breathe there, to rescue the ships if you kill enemies. It isn't as absolutely pointless as it is in Gateway to Grethor or Gravity kills.

    Then don't kill them - if you already know it is pointless to do so.

    It works in Borg Disconnected, fewer enemies will spawn if fewer ones are killed.

    I'm offering (pretty obvious I might note) solutions here, whether you use them or not is up to you.


    ????

    I'm not asking anyone for help or solutions. I've been playing some of these STFs before some of the people here even started playing this game, I'm sure. I know how they work and why they suck.

    And obviously, fewer enemies spawn in BD if you kill less, the issue, though is you have to deal with existing spawns somehow to rescue the Borg. Yes I also know it is possible to avoid killing them entirely to rescue the ships. Also killing enemies in BD increases score, whether it matters enough or not to be worth it is another question, however again, BD was not designed to punish you for killing enemies, as they don't insta respawn, and when they do respawn they may ignore you for other enemies.

    Maybe I wasn't clear, but I don't like playing a glorified FedEx driver in Gravity Kills, or a mobile F dispenser (yes I know there are spots you can literally sit still and close the gates, isn't that exciting?) in Gateway to Grethor, where killing enemies does absolutely nothing of value.
    trennan wrote: »
    This is definitely an unenjoyable STF. While there are obvious strategies to beat it, they are well, stupid. You can't fight through it because by design, everything respawns extremely quickly if not instantly. Therefore the only answer to keep the space turtles away from the Jupiter or the stations is continuous gravity well baby sitting with some other means of getting them away in the first place. But, gravity well to pull them all together only makes them stronger, so do it wrong and you just make it worse. Add to that the insane damage output they can manage and surprise, no fun to be had.

    Usually all I can do is put power to engines and run in circles powering up the Jupiter, even on science ships I tend not to bother trying to grav well trap them because someone is going to kill them and then they respawn out of range of the well.

    That's the case in so many missions.

    Battle at the Binary stars: no point in keeping killing enemies. Assault on Terok Nor: pushing an enemy away prevents spawning of new ones. Same for Borg Disconnected. Gateway to Grethor: no point in killing enemies as that's not the goal of the main part of the mission. Battle of Procyon V, same story.

    There are so many missions that are set up the same way as Gravity Kills. It's not the developers fault that the majority of the players are by default in 'must shoot everything instead of reading the objective and use my brain' mode. Nor is it their fault that these patterns are, apparently, not recognised.


    Communicate with your team, divide tasks with one player throwing gravity wells well out of range of the Jupiter or pushing them away, have some fast players collect the particles while another one covers them... it really isn't that hard. You can even just keep killing them if you do want to shoot your way through the mission.


    And if a mission that requires some coordination is not enjoyable to you - then don't play it. Some players actually want to play missions that require some tactics and cooperation.


    No mission is acceptable with instantly respawning infinite enemies, and not all the ones you listed are like that, but many are. Borg Disconnected, for as boring as that one is, at least killing the enemies can be done and they don't instantly respawn. You have time to breathe there, to rescue the ships if you kill enemies. It isn't as absolutely pointless as it is in Gateway to Grethor or Gravity kills.

    Actually on this one, if you have a team, or get a team that can actually keep killing. It'll level up that ship mastery pretty fast. So this one can have a use other than marks.

    But again, this does still require that the players know what they are doing. I do random a lot. I get this one on occasion, so I've seen great teams and I've seen teams like, "Are you even sure you know how to fly your ship?"

    An truly, this one is the reason I originally slotted TBR. Now, I use all the time, I've found very few circumstances where it's not useful.

    Well, I'll just stick to patrols for mastery. I'm not sure STFs can beat them, nor do I want to subject other people to Gravity Kills just because I want to level a ship. A lot of these insta respawn queues do not give XP for ship kills, though.

    TBR does have its uses. The question of course is what are you sacrificing for that slot, and do you have enough power, aux and ctrlx, for that to be useful in any given build? In many cases it doesn't work out well. Funny thing is, an EPG oriented ship can be a problem with TBR and grav wells because they can easily kill the ships you are just trying to relocate.

    Due to my setup, all my subsystems start as a base of 75 power. Which gives me,

    Control Expertise 103
    Shield Drain 159(Skill pointed for the polaron power drain)
    EPG 43.

    With my base combat subsystem power being
    W: 104/50
    S: 103/60
    E: 75/50
    A: 76/40

    This allows me to have the full 13.2% damage from [AMP] on my core all the time.

    With this I keep a Red Matter Capacitor, Quantum Singularity Manipulation(Rank 2), Auxiliary Batteries, EPtW II, and Aux2Bat II. This is all mainly due to that I use the Terran Rep Core, don't get any straight bonuses, but it give 7.5% weapon power to Aux and 7.5% weapon power to shield. It also allows all 4 subsystems to break the 125 limit. Another is the Trellium-D plating that adds 7.5% aux to shield, with a few other consoles that add in subsystem power. This is all accomplished without any fleet gear, including trait, active doff expansion, and SRO's. It's what I call a poor mans build. I mean, most of my boffs are ones I picked up back on 2012. Granted, it just happens to be on a Maquis Raider. But the original idea was built around the Vorgon Xyfius Heavy Escort.

    I have this in two different setups actually. This one is on my Fed main. I have a version of it on a Rom/KDF char that's a bit more damage focused. But both are still a work in progress.

    Edit: Almost forgot the Weapon Capacitor from my core as well.
    Post edited by trennan on
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    jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,100 Arc User
    There are so many missions that are set up the same way as Gravity Kills. It's not the developers fault that the majority of the players are by default in 'must shoot everything instead of reading the objective and use my brain' mode. Nor is it their fault that these patterns are, apparently, not recognised.
    It is absolutely the developers fault - though there are not patterns in GK to be recognized.
    Wanna know why? Exactly because there are "dozens" of other missions that don't require anything but "pew pew pew".
    And who made those, I wonder?
    And why they made them, I wonder? For the same reason why Infected Ground was removed from the random pool.
    In short, because people started complaining that "oh no, it's too hard... we can't do it!" so the developers started going for easier and easier content.
    And now the majority of queues are nothing but "enter, shoot once, sit tight and wait for the timer" and those few STFs that actually requires coordination and communication are practically unplayed.

    Gravity Kills does not require neither communication nor coordination.
    It just requires patience and for you to keep your fingers crossed that, somehow, you can get to the end of it without losing your mind out of sheer boredom or frustration.

    All in all, I'm going to quote you @jagdtier44: "It's bad when it's just faster to bail out and wait out the timer than to actually try and play the thing, far less frustrating too."​​
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
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    trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    There are so many missions that are set up the same way as Gravity Kills. It's not the developers fault that the majority of the players are by default in 'must shoot everything instead of reading the objective and use my brain' mode. Nor is it their fault that these patterns are, apparently, not recognised.
    It is absolutely the developers fault - though there are not patterns in GK to be recognized.
    Wanna know why? Exactly because there are "dozens" of other missions that don't require anything but "pew pew pew".
    And who made those, I wonder?
    And why they made them, I wonder? For the same reason why Infected Ground was removed from the random pool.
    In short, because people started complaining that "oh no, it's too hard... we can't do it!" so the developers started going for easier and easier content.
    And now the majority of queues are nothing but "enter, shoot once, sit tight and wait for the timer" and those few STFs that actually requires coordination and communication are practically unplayed.

    Gravity Kills does not require neither communication nor coordination.
    It just requires patience and for you to keep your fingers crossed that, somehow, you can get to the end of it without losing your mind out of sheer boredom or frustration.

    All in all, I'm going to quote you @jagdtier44: "It's bad when it's just faster to bail out and wait out the timer than to actually try and play the thing, far less frustrating too."​​

    Wait.. Infected Ground to hard? HAHAHAHAHA! Not for the last 6 years. But advanced and elite back then also had fail conditions, like not completing the optional in time.

    The induction of Fleets and fleet gear is really when the cries of "Oh no, it's too hard." began, as the game started shifting more toward the glass cannon approach. There are players that have left the game because of the direction it went. The induction of even more of it a Delta Rising caused even more to leave.

    We can blame Cryptic for the state of the game, yes. But, we can also agree on the fact that they're doing what they can to make the most money. Because PWE doesn't invest in game improvements. CBS doesn't care as long as it profits them. That, and with PWE, if STO drops below a certain profit margin for a long enough period of time, instead of investing to help it, they'll just shut it down.

    However, we can also agree that the pewfest maps are boring. IT would be more entertaining to watch paint dry or the grass grow.
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This discussion has been closed.