Life Time Subscriber and played since Closed Beta here.
I welcome these costumes.
I am all for everyone getting something new in the game, plus nothing is being taken away from anyone.
It is when exclusivity was, for years, one of the main selling points of the lifetime subscription.
That exclusivity is taken away now.
In my opinion, it is wrong to monetise a certain feature for years and then take it away. While it is true that no assets are taken away from Lifers (in the sense that they can still create new LibBorg characters) their exclusivity that was advertised to them and for which they paid, is actually taken away.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
Life Time Subscriber and played since Closed Beta here.
I welcome these costumes.
I am all for everyone getting something new in the game, plus nothing is being taken away from anyone.
It is when exclusivity was, for years, one of the main selling points of the lifetime subscription.
That exclusivity is taken away now.
In my opinion, it is wrong to monetise a certain feature for years and then take it away. While it is true that no assets are taken away from Lifers (in the sense that they can still create new LibBorg characters) their exclusivity that was advertised to them and for which they paid, is actually taken away.
On one hand I am completely excited for the new borg stuff. However this was a pretty strong argument to make that got me thinking really and I agree completely. It is sold as being exclusive to lifetimers, and actually the skills in the box are far better then what the liberated borg have. We are going to see lots of people running around looking like borg, which is not a bad thing. But its not fair that lockbox content has superior items then someone who paid lifetime and got the basics
So how about a compromise? Lifetimers get the skills from the box and the costume from the lobi store for free on all alts they make and have? I mean the look and skills are what we actually paid lifetime for in essence, its only in the spirit of fairness this is updated to reflect that fact.
Well, first of. Peoples still have to pay to get the lobi crystals to get the costume. They aren't getting the costume for free.
Meanwhile, if you have been a lifetimer for more than 3 and a half year, you already played for more than what lifetime is worth. Since lifetime costs about the same as 3 and a half years worth of regular subscription did.
So if you played for more than 3 and a half year as a a lifetimer, the game has lost money on you since you still get your Zen stipendium, so they are technically paying you now.
Furthermore, the lifetime Borg character is worth... what... 8 or 10 dollars out of the entire lifetime subcription cost. You got other things with the lifetime subcription, so don't wanna see anyone suddenly claim the entire cost of lifetime as what the Borg is worth. The Borg is only a fraction of it.
Which means people got 10 dollars worth of entitlement on a 10 year old (and imo, outdated) item. Which if you played more than 3,5 years, the game would have payed you back for and then have lost money on you.
So Yeah... I welcome the new borg costume. It adds something new to the game, and nothing is being taken away from anyone.
"Please, Captain, not in front of the Klingons." Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
So how about a compromise? Lifetimers get the skills from the box and the costume from the lobi store for free on all alts they make and have? I mean the look and skills are what we actually paid lifetime for in essence, its only in the spirit of fairness this is updated to reflect that fact.
I do like the sound of that.
"Please, Captain, not in front of the Klingons." Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
Life Time Subscriber and played since Closed Beta here.
I welcome these costumes.
I am all for everyone getting something new in the game, plus nothing is being taken away from anyone.
It is when exclusivity was, for years, one of the main selling points of the lifetime subscription.
That exclusivity is taken away now.
In my opinion, it is wrong to monetise a certain feature for years and then take it away. While it is true that no assets are taken away from Lifers (in the sense that they can still create new LibBorg characters) their exclusivity that was advertised to them and for which they paid, is actually taken away.
I don't think so.
Giving out kit modules and some traits does not equal to unlocking the entire species. That remains an exclusive of those that possess the LTS.
We already had this discussion when they decided to put the Visier up for sale in Mudd's Market and while I see no reason to have it again, apparently we must.
I paid a very small fraction of the LTS price to have the Liberated Borg species unlocked for me. Open the Zen Store and see how much a species unlock actually cost, then compare it with the LTS usual price or even with the discounted one(s) and you'll see what "a very small fraction" means. I have liberated borg characters and I've had them for close to 10 years now.
I'm not going to cry because a lockbox is going to give out kit modules and traits that works better than what I have.
If and when I'll be interested into trying them out, I'll buy them off the exchange or open some box.
But really, this old "exclusivity is taken away, STOOOOOP" discourse is old, trite and amounts to nothing but the absolute need of some to have unending bragging rights.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
You know, I guess if anyone actually bought a LTS for the sole purpose of the lib borg, I guess I can understand not liking this. But as someone who has a LTS (but didn't buy it for that sole purpose) I actually happy I'll finally be able to have a full Borg costume. Plus, my LTS has paid for itself with zen a LONG time ago.
Life Time Subscriber and played since Closed Beta here.
I welcome these costumes.
I am all for everyone getting something new in the game, plus nothing is being taken away from anyone.
It is when exclusivity was, for years, one of the main selling points of the lifetime subscription.
That exclusivity is taken away now.
In my opinion, it is wrong to monetise a certain feature for years and then take it away. While it is true that no assets are taken away from Lifers (in the sense that they can still create new LibBorg characters) their exclusivity that was advertised to them and for which they paid, is actually taken away.
On one hand I am completely excited for the new borg stuff. However this was a pretty strong argument to make that got me thinking really and I agree completely. It is sold as being exclusive to lifetimers, and actually the skills in the box are far better then what the liberated borg have. We are going to see lots of people running around looking like borg, which is not a bad thing. But its not fair that lockbox content has superior items then someone who paid lifetime and got the basics
So how about a compromise? Lifetimers get the skills from the box and the costume from the lobi store for free on all alts they make and have? I mean the look and skills are what we actually paid lifetime for in essence, its only in the spirit of fairness this is updated to reflect that fact.
That does sound like a reasonable compromise.
It's unlikely to happen unfortunately.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
Life Time Subscriber and played since Closed Beta here.
I welcome these costumes.
I am all for everyone getting something new in the game, plus nothing is being taken away from anyone.
It is when exclusivity was, for years, one of the main selling points of the lifetime subscription.
That exclusivity is taken away now.
In my opinion, it is wrong to monetise a certain feature for years and then take it away. While it is true that no assets are taken away from Lifers (in the sense that they can still create new LibBorg characters) their exclusivity that was advertised to them and for which they paid, is actually taken away.
I don't think so.
Giving out kit modules and some traits does not equal to unlocking the entire species. That remains an exclusive of those that possess the LTS.
We already had this discussion when they decided to put the Visier up for sale in Mudd's Market and while I see no reason to have it again, apparently we must.
I paid a very small fraction of the LTS price to have the Liberated Borg species unlocked for me. Open the Zen Store and see how much a species unlock actually cost, then compare it with the LTS usual price or even with the discounted one(s) and you'll see what "a very small fraction" means. I have liberated borg characters and I've had them for close to 10 years now.
I'm not going to cry because a lockbox is going to give out kit modules and traits that works better than what I have.
If and when I'll be interested into trying them out, I'll buy them off the exchange or open some box.
But really, this old "exclusivity is taken away, STOOOOOP" discourse is old, trite and amounts to nothing but the absolute need of some to have unending bragging rights.
The 'entire species' is nothing but a line in the character overview screen and a trait that's hardly worth using and likely has a longer cooldown than many of the new abilities. And until now, visuals that will soon be much more limited than the new ones. Now these visuals gave a distinct feel to the species until now, but that will soon be gone.
The fact that other species only cost a handful of Zen is not very relevant; Zen can be obtained in other ways than spending real money on the game.
As for the 'bragging rights': is it unreasonable to expect exclusivity when that has for years been used as a marketing tool to sell the lifer subscriptions to players? Whether you think exclusivity needs to remain (or have existedin the first place) or not is something we're unlikely to going to agree on, but I hope that at least you can understand why I dislike first making that exclusivity a major selling point and then removing it.
It has nothing to do with bragging rights, it's what people paid for - even if they paid for that among other things, it was still sold as a feature.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
A further point I'd like to add is that, besides the Talaxians and the lifer ships that were in the basics already a part of the package, no real updates have been made to the Lifer bundle for a long time. Some things, like the forum titles, were even taken away even though they are still advertised as being a part of it.
The fact that they have now found the resources to develop and add things that are related to a species that could only be obtained at a very high price, combined with what I described above is why I'm slightly annoyed at this.
It feels like that, rather than ensuring that players who pay large sums for an unique species get the full package, they want people to pay for a lifer subscription and still unlock additional gear through the lobi store and lock boxes. An alternative would be to make some long requested additions to the lifer subscription package and include the newly developed stuff in there.
At least then one could say that a lifer subscription retains its value because, even though not all of it may be unique anymore, you at least get the species that was for years sold as being unique but now with an extended full package. Instead of a line in the character screen without the other options. Because that's basically what the vet's LibBorgs are reduced to.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
You know, I guess if anyone actually bought a LTS for the sole purpose of the lib borg, I guess I can understand not liking this. But as someone who has a LTS (but didn't buy it for that sole purpose) I actually happy I'll finally be able to have a full Borg costume. Plus, my LTS has paid for itself with zen a LONG time ago.
I've been here from the start, I kind of agree in a way but there are two issues to this point
Firstly, I didn't stop 'paying' for things way back when I became a lifetime member that some comments are arguing that being a lifer means you stop paying full stop. You get 500 zen a month. The whole reason you pay lifetime is mainly because you feel you'll spend a lot of time playing the game or why bother? In that time, I have got ships, expansions, costumes slots and so on. All which I paid for on top of because I made a commitment to the game. It doesn't matter if you're a new LTS or old, its still a selling point today as it was then. The liberated Borg are in need of an update I think its fair to say. (costume and skills only)
This is just a general observation not directed at you Grand Nagus.
Secondly, and importantly The LTS is still being sold 'as is' and it is a selling point which is firmly placed so anyone new paying now is getting a raw deal with. (I mean in terms of the current Borg costume which is low res and awful along with the skills which are meh compared to what's in the lockbox. Why should the lock box be 'superior' (a casual one off purchase) to what people who pony up cash up front and make a 'lifetime' commitment too? It should be more attractive to the LTS no? After all you'd want them sticking around paying more money into the game as they have made that big commitment.
I'm not advocating that LTS get 'everything' in the lock box, more a revision of what people get, such as the costume and skills.
Incidentally, I've got 100 keys which I have paid for ready for release but it kinda sucks that as a LTS I have to have the costume bound to one character and then the skills. I've no issue with kits or weapons in the box etc, that's fine.
To be fair, back then I think it was only the liberated Borg and the free ships etc there was no Romulan faction and so on. So it is and remains a good deal. In fact I got the LTS for the Borg.
It just seems to me that if you're going to cross that line or as some may argue muddy the waters, at least be on the same page. In all fairness to the ones that did pay LTS for the Borg.
Life Time Subscriber and played since Closed Beta here.
I welcome these costumes.
I am all for everyone getting something new in the game, plus nothing is being taken away from anyone.
It is when exclusivity was, for years, one of the main selling points of the lifetime subscription.
That exclusivity is taken away now.
In my opinion, it is wrong to monetise a certain feature for years and then take it away. While it is true that no assets are taken away from Lifers (in the sense that they can still create new LibBorg characters) their exclusivity that was advertised to them and for which they paid, is actually taken away.
I don't think so.
Giving out kit modules and some traits does not equal to unlocking the entire species. That remains an exclusive of those that possess the LTS.
We already had this discussion when they decided to put the Visier up for sale in Mudd's Market and while I see no reason to have it again, apparently we must.
I paid a very small fraction of the LTS price to have the Liberated Borg species unlocked for me. Open the Zen Store and see how much a species unlock actually cost, then compare it with the LTS usual price or even with the discounted one(s) and you'll see what "a very small fraction" means. I have liberated borg characters and I've had them for close to 10 years now.
I'm not going to cry because a lockbox is going to give out kit modules and traits that works better than what I have.
If and when I'll be interested into trying them out, I'll buy them off the exchange or open some box.
But really, this old "exclusivity is taken away, STOOOOOP" discourse is old, trite and amounts to nothing but the absolute need of some to have unending bragging rights.
The 'entire species' is nothing but a line in the character overview screen and a trait that's hardly worth using and likely has a longer cooldown than many of the new abilities. And until now, visuals that will soon be much more limited than the new ones. Now these visuals gave a distinct feel to the species until now, but that will soon be gone.
The fact that other species only cost a handful of Zen is not very relevant; Zen can be obtained in other ways than spending real money on the game.
As for the 'bragging rights': is it unreasonable to expect exclusivity when that has for years been used as a marketing tool to sell the lifer subscriptions to players? Whether you think exclusivity needs to remain (or have existedin the first place) or not is something we're unlikely to going to agree on, but I hope that at least you can understand why I dislike first making that exclusivity a major selling point and then removing it.
It has nothing to do with bragging rights, it's what people paid for - even if they paid for that among other things, it was still sold as a feature.
And it continues to be a feature, no matter how you may decide to spin it.
"Nothing but a line", then don't complain if you will still be able to have it while those that do not have the LTS still can't. This is what you got from having the species unlocked: visuals and traits that gives a Liberated Borg character bonus passives.
No cooldown whatsoever and if you don't think that they are worth using that's a matter of your personal preference.
Many may disagree, just as many may not.
As for the cost Zen of unlocking a species, you may not find it "very revelant". I disagree.
And I respect your dislike of this choice, but I do no understand it. I didn't buy the LTS to have "exclusivity": I bought it to have access to stuff that would've been otherwise inaccessible to me.
It has everything to do with bragging rights, for nothing is being taken away from LTS owners.
You're right, though: we're unlikely to ever agree on this, so I'm gonna leave the field to someone else, because if there's something that this community surely doesn't need it's discussions like this one that adds nothing to the community itself
.
Thank you for the polite exchange of words, but I'm off this.
I will continue to enjoy my Liberate Borg characters and I will be happy to see people going around enjoying the content of this new lockbox and lobi content.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Anyone with a current LTS loses nothing but it does to a certain extent reduce the allure or perceived value for anyone considering a purchase.
It might be nice for them to extend the "liberation" to all species at character creation to allow slightly more options like libbed reman cardies or gorn but if the LTS no longer highlights liberated as an LTS perk who knows whats planned. Another pseudo-faction is more unlikely if stuff is being gambleboxed.
Another pseudo-faction is more unlikely if stuff is being gambleboxed.
As I said earlier any Borg pseudo-faction would be the Cooperative, and most of this stuff is distinctly Collective in nature and so wouldn't make sense to be used by the Cooperative. The ship itself is also unique, in Canon they're was only one of them, so it makes more sense for it to be in a lockbox to keep it somewhat rare. We also had both Jem'Hadar and ST:D ships in lockboxes before the factions themselves were released , and the Jem'Hadar uniform is also in the Lobi Store just like this drone armor will be.
true but I choose Picard to really push the "a liberated borg might not even look it" home even Seven basicly looks entirely human except for basicly some funky jewlery.
You know, I sometimes wonder if they would have kept Picard's facial implants from the final scene of BoBW had Voyager and Seven already existed.
The answer is no. Janeway, Tuvok and B'elanna were assimilated in "Unimatrix Zero" (which is after Seven) and had all implants removed.
Only characters that are supposed to be borg from the beginning retain some implants, to visibly identify them as such. Temporary transformations are reversed completely. As is usual in serial fiction.
I think what several people are forgetting is they are NOT taking anything away from Lifetimers, but the box if you buy the keys or have a lot of Energy Credit to spent, will only enhance those abilities Liberated Borg already have.
This really is NO different from having previously offered Tal-Shiar Adapted Starships or Warbirds in the past, and now with Picard were likely going to see more Borg technologies being utilized by the Romulan's Star Empire as the formerly dominant representatives of the Romulans.
I'm honestly curious to know what we might see in a future Picard Lockbox, as the Federation likely has to prepare to defend itself from this more Rogue element.
Plus, my LTS has paid for itself with zen a LONG time ago.
Mine paid for itself in sub fees before the game went F2P.
Same here and it easily paid for itself another few times with the 500 Zen Stipend.
Speaking of Exclusivities, how about most of the Loot Crate Exclusive Emotes becoming Anniversary Emotes. The only exclusives that are still exclusive seems to be the Chromodynamic Armor, Radiometric Converter, EMH Console, Light Phaser Satellite Turret console, Multi-spatial Personal Shield, Neodymium Deflector Array, TR-116A Sniper Rifle, Pink Vanity Pack, Black Alert Tribble, Andorian Light Escort, and maybe a few others I missed. There is no reason why most of these exclusives have remained exclusive.
My problem is the lack of borg armor for lib borg and now that look is behind gambling.
The armor isn't in the lockbox, it's being added to the Lobi Store. And having that as a default uniform for Liberated Borg captains wouldn't make sense, your captain isn't Borg anymore they have had their implants removed and rejoined their respective faction. It makes a little sense (but not much) for the boffs to have access to the low res version they've always had if you assume that you liberated them yourself and they just haven't had the implants removed yet. The Lobi Store has all kinds of nonsensical uniform options available so it's fine for it to be available there.
Lobi is aquired from boxes, just because its a default prise does not mean you dont have to gamble to get it.
Secondaly implants are harder to remove the longer someone has been a drone, that is why picard janeway tuvock and belanna had ALL of there taken out but seven could not. and i doubt the empire or the romulan have great acess to medical technology to remove all the parts if they even botherd to at all.
And speaking of low rez the implants they do have acess to are far inferior to the ones coming with the armor.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
I'm an LTS, two years ago, do i feel i lose something?.. no, not at all, i paid for what i wanted, used it, and im fine and had fun... i'm happy if others have access for things i have, if by other means, everything should be available to obtain, besides subscriptions..
The only exclusives that are still exclusive seems to be the Chromodynamic Armor, Radiometric Converter, EMH Console, Light Phaser Satellite Turret console, Multi-spatial Personal Shield, Neodymium Deflector Array, TR-116A Sniper Rifle, Pink Vanity Pack, Black Alert Tribble, Andorian Light Escort, and maybe a few others I missed. There is no reason why most of these exclusives have remained exclusive.
They said in a recent livestream that they are actively trying to discourage people from using the TR-116A because it apparently breaks stuff, so I doubt that will ever become available another way.
SO basically anyone can be one now...leaves the Vets basically a laser pointer and a few meh traits (And no one really cares about Talaxians, I can't remember the last time I've seen one)
Which is kinda ironic since the LTS is on sale right now..
Basically? No. The liberated borg races are still tied to LTS only. All of the awesome stuff in the borg lock box doesn't make non-liberated borg characters a liberated borg anymore than wearing Talaxian pants makes my Ferengi a Talaxian. That said, I would agree that they should add way more updates to the LTS than they currently do. If they had something new and fancy to show of say twice a year, they might generate more interest in the LTS.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
The one thing that baffles me is this, if it doesn't take away the 'exclusivity'
then if I create an alien race,
add infected skin,
add the skills from the lockbox, which you can buy from AH
add the armour/costume, buy keys from ah to get lobi
and then you have a borg
Which I may argue is superior to what the lifetime get in terms of visuals and skills
So by Cryptic saying its 'exclusive' to lts and we loose 'nothing' is not really winning the point for me. Because clearly you can circumnavigate the $300 if you wanted to play a borg now.
I also think its a bit insensitive to the people who paid for this, to be told how we should be feeling about this change regardless if you care or not. Some people who paid this do care and is it not a fair point to ask the question, why then people looking in the future should buy the $300 LTS if they want to play and access the borg. It might not be the 'sole' reason for purchase, but why should people have to just accept it? Its not on to shut people down if they feel aggrieved by this.
The fundamental sticking point for me is the word 'exclusive' which is still being used today for the lts. Maybe its just the principle of the thing, I don't know. But from my experience on issues like this, it becomes a 'slippy slope' to which if they can do this and get away with it, even if its a small change, then it leaves the door open for other issues too, some of which 'you' might care about one day. But by saying nothing on this issue, I am consenting to this.
All I care about is the skills and the visual look. I'm not asking for the moon on a stick. As I said, I'm happy to put my hand in my pocket and pay for the lootboxes for its pretty cool stuff to me. If fact I got 5x20 pack of keys. So I still support this game financially.
I accept that some people don't agree with me on this, but then don't diminish my right to complain if I feel something isn't right by something I was clearly sold on the understanding and principle that to this day it is sold as exclusive. As illustrated above, its not anymore.
I accept times change, but don't sell me something under the banner of exclusive to then give people a way to circumvent that. Either bring it up to standard or compensate. I'm just trying to be fair about it.
N.B
What do I mean in exclusivity?
I mean the identity in terms of looks and its abilities. So by giving that to the wider audience you are removing the defining unique look of the borg from lts to anyone now. That is what is lost.
The one thing that baffles me is this, if it doesn't take away the 'exclusivity'
then if I create an alien race,
add infected skin,
add the skills from the lockbox, which you can buy from AH
add the armour/costume, buy keys from ah to get lobi
and then you have a borg
Exactly, you would have a Borg and NOT a Liberated Borg. The skills are things a drone still connected to the Collective would do, not things a Liberated Borg has or would do in Canon. And no Liberated Borg has kept the armored look the costume will give us, all those implants are always removed.
Liberated Borg only keep the implants that cannot be safely removed, so they would and should look like a regular member of their species with limited implant options, not a fully assimilated drone.
The one thing that baffles me is this, if it doesn't take away the 'exclusivity'
then if I create an alien race,
add infected skin,
add the skills from the lockbox, which you can buy from AH
add the armour/costume, buy keys from ah to get lobi
and then you have a borg
Exactly, you would have a Borg and NOT a Liberated Borg. The skills are things a drone still connected to the Collective would do, not things a Liberated Borg has or would do in Canon. And no Liberated Borg has kept the armored look the costume will give us, all those implants are always removed.
Liberated Borg only keep the implants that cannot be safely removed, so they would and should look like a regular member of their species with limited implant options, not a fully assimilated drone.
What about the Borg that Lore had control of, they had free will and kept the armour (even had names) (Descent 1 & 2)
I think you're missing my point and not seeing what I'm getting at as you're going too deep into the lore etc.
I know that there are Borg and liberated Borg, are you saying when people open these boxes there are collective Borg running around ESD now, in Starfleet uniform or do they have free will but look like this? ie Liberated?
Which goes back to my points, you cant have both and say its exclusive? Its the unique selling point.
So, let me see if I got the OP's point. Here goes.
A Lobi Store Costume, useable on any character, purchaseable by FTP players, has completely removed all value from the Life Time Subscriber Playable Borg Race?
To quote the Little Green Guy "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."
Star Trek Online is a game. It should never be elevated to a lifestyle choice. I have quite a few items which are currently unavailable. Or have extremely limited availability due to Exchange Derangement Syndrome. Some of them are quite fun to use or display. They indicate I was ingame at a certain time and had the opportunity to acquire them while they were available.
Since I enjoy them, I'd be delighted if others got the chance to because Cryptic released them again.
How small would my life have to be if I publicly displayed dismay and contempt for the items in question becoming available again? How badly out of proportion would my priorities be if I bemoaned the fact people who I view as inferiors could "look just like me!" in an MMO?
Exclusivity for items in a game is a marketing trick. Nothing more. P.T. Barnum said over one hundred years ago, "There is a sucker born every minute." How refreshing to see he is still correct a century on.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
After reading the reply's to this and being a lifetime member for the entire length of the game i can say this about it.
To those spouting that it removes no perk and it provides a borg look but not a liberated borg look my my we do love splitting hairs these days.
Rather like every time the exclusivity topic pops up regarding ships event's and the like it always has a group crying the second they may have to share there exclusivity. But so long as its on the other foot and you get more that was some one else having exclusivity removed... o well that's fine and those that have it should not have a problem over some hair splitting reason.
Now as a personal note i don't care that items that are exclusive become available. I am happy to see exclusivity removed even if just in mudd's store at high price.
What i am not happy about is the double standard of what remains exclusive and whats not. want to make sure sold or not that everyone can get an item fine lock it to a 3 year limit on exclusivity after that its available to every one. or 2 years or 1 even.
But make it known to everyone they can take there limited and exclusivity and forget it after a set time frame. And if people think they need some form of compensation for loosing that exclusivity... All i can say is get over it as i have lost several exclusivity items and am sure i will loose more.
How ever don't try and decide if something like the liberated borg exclusivity part of the LTS is some how grand to have given out. And to be honest if you want to remove exclusivity from some free event that one only had to show up to get fine.
But if you are handing out one from a payed item like the LTS for all to see and to be honest that is all the liberated borg are at this point is the look. Then provide compensation to those that you are removing it from or decide no matter the outcry on the forum people can kiss there exclusivity of i was there so i have x argument good by.
But if you are handing out one from a payed item like the LTS for all to see and to be honest that is all the liberated borg are at this point is the look. Then provide compensation to those that you are removing it from or decide no matter the outcry on the forum people can kiss there exclusivity of i was there so i have x argument good by.
Since when are lock box items "handouts?" Also the new borg lock box items were never part of LTS benefits. They are completely new items to the game.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Even if these new traits and costume options would 100 % replicate the Liberated Borg... They still wouldn't give you up to 10 years of play with a Liberated Borg character.
And if Cryptic released a new Super-Duper Universe Lifetime Subscription that includes all the perks of the Lifetime Subscription plus a space pony, would you complain that this would also lose your "exclusiveness"?
But of course, the answer to the original question is - yes, anyone can be a liberated borg now. In fact, they always could - all it required was buying a lifetime subscription. Now, everyone can buy some Lobi items or open some lockboxes to get a facsimile of the Liberated Borg...
Of course, a lifetime subscriber can actually use both the Liberated Borg, and the new stuff, and be even more borgier than ever!
For similar reasons, I like the new martial arts stuff from the Discovery Rep or new telepathy-themed abilities, I can make my Vulcan even more Vulcany now.
I've been a lifer since 9 years now, I believe. I never felt that the lifetime subscription needed to be expanded, I bought it for what it was. That said, if there is a thing they should do, is look at whether they can upgrade some visuals (including the Liberated Borg stuff). But that is more a general thing - I'd also appreciate if they were to create a new Aegis or Assimilated Set with updated visuals. Ideally they keep the old around so that no one loses something, but the game could really benefit if some of the old stuff got improved to current standards. New players will appreciate it as much as long-term players-
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Comments
It is when exclusivity was, for years, one of the main selling points of the lifetime subscription.
That exclusivity is taken away now.
In my opinion, it is wrong to monetise a certain feature for years and then take it away. While it is true that no assets are taken away from Lifers (in the sense that they can still create new LibBorg characters) their exclusivity that was advertised to them and for which they paid, is actually taken away.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
On one hand I am completely excited for the new borg stuff. However this was a pretty strong argument to make that got me thinking really and I agree completely. It is sold as being exclusive to lifetimers, and actually the skills in the box are far better then what the liberated borg have. We are going to see lots of people running around looking like borg, which is not a bad thing. But its not fair that lockbox content has superior items then someone who paid lifetime and got the basics
So how about a compromise? Lifetimers get the skills from the box and the costume from the lobi store for free on all alts they make and have? I mean the look and skills are what we actually paid lifetime for in essence, its only in the spirit of fairness this is updated to reflect that fact.
Meanwhile, if you have been a lifetimer for more than 3 and a half year, you already played for more than what lifetime is worth. Since lifetime costs about the same as 3 and a half years worth of regular subscription did.
So if you played for more than 3 and a half year as a a lifetimer, the game has lost money on you since you still get your Zen stipendium, so they are technically paying you now.
Furthermore, the lifetime Borg character is worth... what... 8 or 10 dollars out of the entire lifetime subcription cost. You got other things with the lifetime subcription, so don't wanna see anyone suddenly claim the entire cost of lifetime as what the Borg is worth. The Borg is only a fraction of it.
Which means people got 10 dollars worth of entitlement on a 10 year old (and imo, outdated) item. Which if you played more than 3,5 years, the game would have payed you back for and then have lost money on you.
So Yeah... I welcome the new borg costume. It adds something new to the game, and nothing is being taken away from anyone.
Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
I do like the sound of that.
Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
Giving out kit modules and some traits does not equal to unlocking the entire species. That remains an exclusive of those that possess the LTS.
We already had this discussion when they decided to put the Visier up for sale in Mudd's Market and while I see no reason to have it again, apparently we must.
I paid a very small fraction of the LTS price to have the Liberated Borg species unlocked for me. Open the Zen Store and see how much a species unlock actually cost, then compare it with the LTS usual price or even with the discounted one(s) and you'll see what "a very small fraction" means. I have liberated borg characters and I've had them for close to 10 years now.
I'm not going to cry because a lockbox is going to give out kit modules and traits that works better than what I have.
If and when I'll be interested into trying them out, I'll buy them off the exchange or open some box.
But really, this old "exclusivity is taken away, STOOOOOP" discourse is old, trite and amounts to nothing but the absolute need of some to have unending bragging rights.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
That does sound like a reasonable compromise.
It's unlikely to happen unfortunately.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
The 'entire species' is nothing but a line in the character overview screen and a trait that's hardly worth using and likely has a longer cooldown than many of the new abilities. And until now, visuals that will soon be much more limited than the new ones. Now these visuals gave a distinct feel to the species until now, but that will soon be gone.
The fact that other species only cost a handful of Zen is not very relevant; Zen can be obtained in other ways than spending real money on the game.
As for the 'bragging rights': is it unreasonable to expect exclusivity when that has for years been used as a marketing tool to sell the lifer subscriptions to players? Whether you think exclusivity needs to remain (or have existedin the first place) or not is something we're unlikely to going to agree on, but I hope that at least you can understand why I dislike first making that exclusivity a major selling point and then removing it.
It has nothing to do with bragging rights, it's what people paid for - even if they paid for that among other things, it was still sold as a feature.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
The fact that they have now found the resources to develop and add things that are related to a species that could only be obtained at a very high price, combined with what I described above is why I'm slightly annoyed at this.
It feels like that, rather than ensuring that players who pay large sums for an unique species get the full package, they want people to pay for a lifer subscription and still unlock additional gear through the lobi store and lock boxes. An alternative would be to make some long requested additions to the lifer subscription package and include the newly developed stuff in there.
At least then one could say that a lifer subscription retains its value because, even though not all of it may be unique anymore, you at least get the species that was for years sold as being unique but now with an extended full package. Instead of a line in the character screen without the other options. Because that's basically what the vet's LibBorgs are reduced to.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
I've been here from the start, I kind of agree in a way but there are two issues to this point
Firstly, I didn't stop 'paying' for things way back when I became a lifetime member that some comments are arguing that being a lifer means you stop paying full stop. You get 500 zen a month. The whole reason you pay lifetime is mainly because you feel you'll spend a lot of time playing the game or why bother? In that time, I have got ships, expansions, costumes slots and so on. All which I paid for on top of because I made a commitment to the game. It doesn't matter if you're a new LTS or old, its still a selling point today as it was then. The liberated Borg are in need of an update I think its fair to say. (costume and skills only)
This is just a general observation not directed at you Grand Nagus.
Secondly, and importantly The LTS is still being sold 'as is' and it is a selling point which is firmly placed so anyone new paying now is getting a raw deal with. (I mean in terms of the current Borg costume which is low res and awful along with the skills which are meh compared to what's in the lockbox. Why should the lock box be 'superior' (a casual one off purchase) to what people who pony up cash up front and make a 'lifetime' commitment too? It should be more attractive to the LTS no? After all you'd want them sticking around paying more money into the game as they have made that big commitment.
I'm not advocating that LTS get 'everything' in the lock box, more a revision of what people get, such as the costume and skills.
Incidentally, I've got 100 keys which I have paid for ready for release but it kinda sucks that as a LTS I have to have the costume bound to one character and then the skills. I've no issue with kits or weapons in the box etc, that's fine.
To be fair, back then I think it was only the liberated Borg and the free ships etc there was no Romulan faction and so on. So it is and remains a good deal. In fact I got the LTS for the Borg.
It just seems to me that if you're going to cross that line or as some may argue muddy the waters, at least be on the same page. In all fairness to the ones that did pay LTS for the Borg.
And it continues to be a feature, no matter how you may decide to spin it.
"Nothing but a line", then don't complain if you will still be able to have it while those that do not have the LTS still can't.
This is what you got from having the species unlocked: visuals and traits that gives a Liberated Borg character bonus passives.
No cooldown whatsoever and if you don't think that they are worth using that's a matter of your personal preference.
Many may disagree, just as many may not.
As for the cost Zen of unlocking a species, you may not find it "very revelant". I disagree.
And I respect your dislike of this choice, but I do no understand it. I didn't buy the LTS to have "exclusivity": I bought it to have access to stuff that would've been otherwise inaccessible to me.
It has everything to do with bragging rights, for nothing is being taken away from LTS owners.
You're right, though: we're unlikely to ever agree on this, so I'm gonna leave the field to someone else, because if there's something that this community surely doesn't need it's discussions like this one that adds nothing to the community itself
.
Thank you for the polite exchange of words, but I'm off this.
I will continue to enjoy my Liberate Borg characters and I will be happy to see people going around enjoying the content of this new lockbox and lobi content.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Mine paid for itself in sub fees before the game went F2P.
It might be nice for them to extend the "liberation" to all species at character creation to allow slightly more options like libbed reman cardies or gorn but if the LTS no longer highlights liberated as an LTS perk who knows whats planned. Another pseudo-faction is more unlikely if stuff is being gambleboxed.
As I said earlier any Borg pseudo-faction would be the Cooperative, and most of this stuff is distinctly Collective in nature and so wouldn't make sense to be used by the Cooperative. The ship itself is also unique, in Canon they're was only one of them, so it makes more sense for it to be in a lockbox to keep it somewhat rare. We also had both Jem'Hadar and ST:D ships in lockboxes before the factions themselves were released , and the Jem'Hadar uniform is also in the Lobi Store just like this drone armor will be.
Only characters that are supposed to be borg from the beginning retain some implants, to visibly identify them as such. Temporary transformations are reversed completely. As is usual in serial fiction.
This really is NO different from having previously offered Tal-Shiar Adapted Starships or Warbirds in the past, and now with Picard were likely going to see more Borg technologies being utilized by the Romulan's Star Empire as the formerly dominant representatives of the Romulans.
I'm honestly curious to know what we might see in a future Picard Lockbox, as the Federation likely has to prepare to defend itself from this more Rogue element.
Same here and it easily paid for itself another few times with the 500 Zen Stipend.
Speaking of Exclusivities, how about most of the Loot Crate Exclusive Emotes becoming Anniversary Emotes. The only exclusives that are still exclusive seems to be the Chromodynamic Armor, Radiometric Converter, EMH Console, Light Phaser Satellite Turret console, Multi-spatial Personal Shield, Neodymium Deflector Array, TR-116A Sniper Rifle, Pink Vanity Pack, Black Alert Tribble, Andorian Light Escort, and maybe a few others I missed. There is no reason why most of these exclusives have remained exclusive.
Lobi is aquired from boxes, just because its a default prise does not mean you dont have to gamble to get it.
Secondaly implants are harder to remove the longer someone has been a drone, that is why picard janeway tuvock and belanna had ALL of there taken out but seven could not. and i doubt the empire or the romulan have great acess to medical technology to remove all the parts if they even botherd to at all.
And speaking of low rez the implants they do have acess to are far inferior to the ones coming with the armor.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
They said in a recent livestream that they are actively trying to discourage people from using the TR-116A because it apparently breaks stuff, so I doubt that will ever become available another way.
Basically? No. The liberated borg races are still tied to LTS only. All of the awesome stuff in the borg lock box doesn't make non-liberated borg characters a liberated borg anymore than wearing Talaxian pants makes my Ferengi a Talaxian. That said, I would agree that they should add way more updates to the LTS than they currently do. If they had something new and fancy to show of say twice a year, they might generate more interest in the LTS.
then if I create an alien race,
add infected skin,
add the skills from the lockbox, which you can buy from AH
add the armour/costume, buy keys from ah to get lobi
and then you have a borg
Which I may argue is superior to what the lifetime get in terms of visuals and skills
So by Cryptic saying its 'exclusive' to lts and we loose 'nothing' is not really winning the point for me. Because clearly you can circumnavigate the $300 if you wanted to play a borg now.
I also think its a bit insensitive to the people who paid for this, to be told how we should be feeling about this change regardless if you care or not. Some people who paid this do care and is it not a fair point to ask the question, why then people looking in the future should buy the $300 LTS if they want to play and access the borg. It might not be the 'sole' reason for purchase, but why should people have to just accept it? Its not on to shut people down if they feel aggrieved by this.
The fundamental sticking point for me is the word 'exclusive' which is still being used today for the lts. Maybe its just the principle of the thing, I don't know. But from my experience on issues like this, it becomes a 'slippy slope' to which if they can do this and get away with it, even if its a small change, then it leaves the door open for other issues too, some of which 'you' might care about one day. But by saying nothing on this issue, I am consenting to this.
All I care about is the skills and the visual look. I'm not asking for the moon on a stick. As I said, I'm happy to put my hand in my pocket and pay for the lootboxes for its pretty cool stuff to me. If fact I got 5x20 pack of keys. So I still support this game financially.
I accept that some people don't agree with me on this, but then don't diminish my right to complain if I feel something isn't right by something I was clearly sold on the understanding and principle that to this day it is sold as exclusive. As illustrated above, its not anymore.
I accept times change, but don't sell me something under the banner of exclusive to then give people a way to circumvent that. Either bring it up to standard or compensate. I'm just trying to be fair about it.
N.B
What do I mean in exclusivity?
I mean the identity in terms of looks and its abilities. So by giving that to the wider audience you are removing the defining unique look of the borg from lts to anyone now. That is what is lost.
Exactly, you would have a Borg and NOT a Liberated Borg. The skills are things a drone still connected to the Collective would do, not things a Liberated Borg has or would do in Canon. And no Liberated Borg has kept the armored look the costume will give us, all those implants are always removed.
Liberated Borg only keep the implants that cannot be safely removed, so they would and should look like a regular member of their species with limited implant options, not a fully assimilated drone.
What about the Borg that Lore had control of, they had free will and kept the armour (even had names) (Descent 1 & 2)
I think you're missing my point and not seeing what I'm getting at as you're going too deep into the lore etc.
I know that there are Borg and liberated Borg, are you saying when people open these boxes there are collective Borg running around ESD now, in Starfleet uniform or do they have free will but look like this? ie Liberated?
Which goes back to my points, you cant have both and say its exclusive? Its the unique selling point.
A Lobi Store Costume, useable on any character, purchaseable by FTP players, has completely removed all value from the Life Time Subscriber Playable Borg Race?
To quote the Little Green Guy "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."
Star Trek Online is a game. It should never be elevated to a lifestyle choice. I have quite a few items which are currently unavailable. Or have extremely limited availability due to Exchange Derangement Syndrome. Some of them are quite fun to use or display. They indicate I was ingame at a certain time and had the opportunity to acquire them while they were available.
Since I enjoy them, I'd be delighted if others got the chance to because Cryptic released them again.
How small would my life have to be if I publicly displayed dismay and contempt for the items in question becoming available again? How badly out of proportion would my priorities be if I bemoaned the fact people who I view as inferiors could "look just like me!" in an MMO?
Exclusivity for items in a game is a marketing trick. Nothing more. P.T. Barnum said over one hundred years ago, "There is a sucker born every minute." How refreshing to see he is still correct a century on.
To those spouting that it removes no perk and it provides a borg look but not a liberated borg look my my we do love splitting hairs these days.
Rather like every time the exclusivity topic pops up regarding ships event's and the like it always has a group crying the second they may have to share there exclusivity. But so long as its on the other foot and you get more that was some one else having exclusivity removed... o well that's fine and those that have it should not have a problem over some hair splitting reason.
Now as a personal note i don't care that items that are exclusive become available. I am happy to see exclusivity removed even if just in mudd's store at high price.
What i am not happy about is the double standard of what remains exclusive and whats not. want to make sure sold or not that everyone can get an item fine lock it to a 3 year limit on exclusivity after that its available to every one. or 2 years or 1 even.
But make it known to everyone they can take there limited and exclusivity and forget it after a set time frame. And if people think they need some form of compensation for loosing that exclusivity... All i can say is get over it as i have lost several exclusivity items and am sure i will loose more.
How ever don't try and decide if something like the liberated borg exclusivity part of the LTS is some how grand to have given out. And to be honest if you want to remove exclusivity from some free event that one only had to show up to get fine.
But if you are handing out one from a payed item like the LTS for all to see and to be honest that is all the liberated borg are at this point is the look. Then provide compensation to those that you are removing it from or decide no matter the outcry on the forum people can kiss there exclusivity of i was there so i have x argument good by.
And if Cryptic released a new Super-Duper Universe Lifetime Subscription that includes all the perks of the Lifetime Subscription plus a space pony, would you complain that this would also lose your "exclusiveness"?
But of course, the answer to the original question is - yes, anyone can be a liberated borg now. In fact, they always could - all it required was buying a lifetime subscription. Now, everyone can buy some Lobi items or open some lockboxes to get a facsimile of the Liberated Borg...
Of course, a lifetime subscriber can actually use both the Liberated Borg, and the new stuff, and be even more borgier than ever!
For similar reasons, I like the new martial arts stuff from the Discovery Rep or new telepathy-themed abilities, I can make my Vulcan even more Vulcany now.
I've been a lifer since 9 years now, I believe. I never felt that the lifetime subscription needed to be expanded, I bought it for what it was. That said, if there is a thing they should do, is look at whether they can upgrade some visuals (including the Liberated Borg stuff). But that is more a general thing - I'd also appreciate if they were to create a new Aegis or Assimilated Set with updated visuals. Ideally they keep the old around so that no one loses something, but the game could really benefit if some of the old stuff got improved to current standards. New players will appreciate it as much as long-term players-