In a community where Disco ball use is equated to real life physical assault, it should be a no-brainer there will be many who will abuse any inspect feature to grief others that don't meet their "standards". If that's not common sense to you, I don't know what to tell you.
It's funny you bring up the disco ball scandal, since that had absolutely nothing to do with any kind of sense. Common, uncommon or otherwise.
I do feel the deja vu in some of the arguments here, but I wouldn't have expected the "no" side to bring it up first.
I do not agree with this ideal being a feature. I see several with the DPS league under there post wanting it. I see several reference to other games and a need for it to be here. I see a moderator arguing for it at the ideal people want to not be inspected.
If this is a needed feature for the game well we have managed what 9 years with out it so far. So i don't see the game falling apart over not having the ability to place a random person under a microscope.
As to privacy and the ideal of it not being a thing in game and you give away your information any way. Well if you want to pick thru the information and deconstruct or reverse engineer a build more power to you no one is saying that information should be less.
But it should also be respected for those not wanting the inspection and rather talk to a person in regards to build item or otherwise.
all this regarding i have a reason to know cause i am in a tfo with x random person to see who is not pulling there part. In a word NO! you have no reason or right. If anything you by clicking the join have decided to take what ever you may get. Not that the other person has decided to get some probe of them self from some random player.
If you "MUST KNOW" what is in your tfo private or fleet for a team for it.
I do not care in regards to how it is worded there is no right to know, and a person if only in a mental state that even causes anxiety over being berated shamed or attacked over this feature is more than enough let there be a opt out as well as opt in.
As to my own feelings on it. If i want to try for as high a dps or meta build i can get. Or if i want to load up the defiant in all common gear and grab my set of holo DS9 bridge officers dress in the admiralty uniform from the ds9 set and have theme night blue quality Bajoran ground weapons. Then that is my option to do so with out question or scanned by some random passer by that wont engage me in a chat.
The same as i turn down random friend requests that have never talked to me. I opt to provide information to those i talk with. The ideal that in a mmo i want to chat and know something of the person that wants to use me as a slide under a microscope before hand is not some crazy out of this world ideal.
It's funny you bring up the disco ball scandal, since that had absolutely nothing to do with any kind of sense. Common, uncommon or otherwise.
Oh I totally agree. However, to honestly sit there and say that it wouldn't be an issue when this is what happens here is totally naive or ignorant or dishonest or any combination of thereof.
Complaining that doesn't make sense is best ignored.
Well, since apparently being asked via chat equals "being assaulted by some disgusting, rude sperglord", I really don't see the difference.
As I said, I'd like to have this feature but I won't die if I don't and if I see something that I can't identify, I usually send out a /tell. More often then not, I get absolute silence. Once I was even put on ignore for asking "hey, cool rifle! Can I ask which one is that?".
All in all, even though I highly doubt they're ever gonna implent an inspect feature, I hope they do give the option of disabling it - in a "nobody can inspect you, but you can't inspect anyone either" kinda way because fair is fair - so that everyone will be happy.
Thinly veiled insults, calling out people for thinking differently than you and arguing about "rights" and "feeling assulted" by a simple question is, quite frankly, blowing this whole thing out of proportion.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Labeling anything you don't agree with as a contradiction to 'common sense' is an extremely short sided viewpoint.
You do not define common sense.
I never made any claims about defining anything for everyone. You're putting words in my mouth and misinterpreted my post.
In a community where Disco ball use is equated to real life physical assault, it should be a no-brainer there will be many who will abuse any inspect feature to grief others that don't meet their "standards". If that's not common sense to you, I don't know what to tell you.
But hey, you all want to judge and exclude others for what gear they are carrying, more power to you. I personally don't need to know what others have. Nor do I see using available tools as such an overwhelming burden. If fleetmates and I want to talk about builds or have questions about something, we, you know, talk to each other.
Fear has nothing to do with it. More like common sense.
This basically reads to me as anyone who's wanting an inspect feature is opposing "common sense."
Also I'm sorry but no, disco balls are nothing like a real life physical assault. No just a billion times no. With that said virtually every other MMO out there today with SWTOR and WoW being 2 primary examples have an inspect function and you rarely hear about gear shaming and such. There's the odd person who tries to DPS shame now and again with the combat log now, yet that's not a valid enough reason to remove the combat log. No feature is 100% abuse proof as that simply doesn't exist.
The other thing you miss is that if someone joins a group and is woefully under-equipped it can and does effect the team. If someone is not pulling their weight and pulling the basic minimum the queue requires, whether that's 10k, or 50k, then they are guaranteeing that run to fail and are being allowed to negatively impact the gaming experience of the other 4 people in there because they joined something they were not yet ready for. No one person is so important that their experience should trump the other 4 people. Once our hypothetical person gets a little more equipment and ups their output, then they will be ready for that queue. A prime example I've been using is Korfez and HSE. You have to bring the thunder for those queues. If your team doesn't have it, then you will fail just by the design of the queue itself. That's not players imposing those limits, that's the game itself. With Korfez if you don't have the damage output and strategy to clear that first wave, it automatically fails you. I want everyone to be able to get into Korfez, HSE, and other queues in game, but not before they're ready for it. That's not judging, that's expecting that if someone is joining a queue, they're able to pull the basic minimum required by the queue itself. If they can't do that then they don't need to be in there. Expecting others to eat a failed queue in the name of inclusiveness is not my idea of fun. I really don't get why it's so unreasonable to some people to expect folks are able to put forth a basic minimum amount of effort instead of leaching off the team. I really don't get that in today's game.
As for the inspect function, it's a quality of life tool that would be a valuable asset in sharing builds without having to resort to 3rd party tools or otherwise, much like an official Cryptic parser would be for the combat log. You don't lose the ability to communicate with people just because an inspect feature is implemented. Sto Academy is super behind on updates, and things like Discord are 3rd party. Even then I have to ask, what's the difference between something like the screen sharer in Discord showing a person's build and an in game inspect feature? You've yet to explain that or how you're harmed by someone knowing your build. You've also not answered the question, if someone is such a private person that the mere thought of someone being able to see their build in game is considered an invasion of privacy, why are they playing MMOs to start with if they're that private of a person? MMOs require you to interact with other people to do many forms of content. Why play MMOs at all if someone is that private of a person knowing full well it requires you to give away as much in-game data as it does? I really don't understand that.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
In my opinion both sides of this utterly meaningless argument are being equally insulting to the other. Neither has any kind of moral or other high ground either.
I never insulted anyone. So I hope I am not being included. I am in favor of a toggle on/off for an Inspect feature. As previous posters have said a combat parser as well as looking at the icons and bars can show what a person has. But yet I would like the insults to stop and people to act and talk like the one on the other side is a fellow human being.
Something about a pot and kettle and black comes to mind, but whatever. For a true inspection system around here you would either need a white glove or a rubber glove or both.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
As for the inspect function, it's a quality of life tool that would be a valuable asset in sharing builds without having to resort to 3rd party tools or otherwise, much like an official Cryptic parser would be for the combat log. You don't lose the ability to communicate with people just because an inspect feature is implemented. Sto Academy is super behind on updates, and things like Discord are 3rd party. Even then I have to ask, what's the difference between something like the screen sharer in Discord showing a person's build and an in game inspect feature? You've yet to explain that or how you're harmed by someone knowing your build. You've also not answered the question, if someone is such a private person that the mere thought of someone being able to see their build in game is considered an invasion of privacy, why are they playing MMOs to start with if they're that private of a person? MMOs require you to interact with other people to do many forms of content. Why play MMOs at all if someone is that private of a person knowing full well it requires you to give away as much in-game data as it does? I really don't understand that.
Yeah it's not like your build is any real secret. If I'm doing ground, people will see the gun I'm using every time I fire it. Anyone willing to call me a loser for using a "junk" gun would still call me a loser even if they can't use an inspect feature.
Something about a pot and kettle and black comes to mind, but whatever. For a true inspection system around here you would either need a white glove or a rubber glove or both.
Yep, especially when people that don't care about it either way feel the need to come into the thread and call the discussion an "utterly meaningless argument" with their usal condescension.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Labeling anything you don't agree with as a contradiction to 'common sense' is an extremely short sided viewpoint.
You do not define common sense.
I never made any claims about defining anything for everyone. You're putting words in my mouth and misinterpreted my post.
In a community where Disco ball use is equated to real life physical assault, it should be a no-brainer there will be many who will abuse any inspect feature to grief others that don't meet their "standards". If that's not common sense to you, I don't know what to tell you.
But hey, you all want to judge and exclude others for what gear they are carrying, more power to you. I personally don't need to know what others have. Nor do I see using available tools as such an overwhelming burden. If fleetmates and I want to talk about builds or have questions about something, we, you know, talk to each other.
Fear has nothing to do with it. More like common sense.
The other thing you miss is that if someone joins a group and is woefully under-equipped it can and does effect the team. If someone is not pulling their weight and pulling the basic minimum the queue requires, whether that's 10k, or 50k, then they are guaranteeing that run to fail and are being allowed to negatively impact the gaming experience of the other 4 people in there because they joined something they were not yet ready for. No one person is so important that their experience should trump the other 4 people. Once our hypothetical person gets a little more equipment and ups their output, then they will be ready for that queue.
Inspect tool does not change this or prevent this. At all.
A prime example I've been using is Korfez and HSE. You have to bring the thunder for those queues. If your team doesn't have it, then you will fail just by the design of the queue itself. That's not players imposing those limits, that's the game itself. With Korfez if you don't have the damage output and strategy to clear that first wave, it automatically fails you. I want everyone to be able to get into Korfez, HSE, and other queues in game, but not before they're ready for it. That's not judging, that's expecting that if someone is joining a queue, they're able to pull the basic minimum required by the queue itself. If they can't do that then they don't need to be in there. Expecting others to eat a failed queue in the name of inclusiveness is not my idea of fun. I really don't get why it's so unreasonable to some people to expect folks are able to put forth a basic minimum amount of effort instead of leaching off the team. I really don't get that in today's game.
Taking everything here as true, still nothing here has anything to do with the inspect tool. It won't stop people from joining randoms unprepared or ungeared or whatever. Not at all. So why are you bringing these issues up?
As for the inspect function, it's a quality of life tool that would be a valuable asset in sharing builds without having to resort to 3rd party tools or otherwise, much like an official Cryptic parser would be for the combat log. You don't lose the ability to communicate with people just because an inspect feature is implemented. Sto Academy is super behind on updates, and things like Discord are 3rd party. Even then I have to ask, what's the difference between something like the screen sharer in Discord showing a person's build and an in game inspect feature? You've yet to explain that or how you're harmed by someone knowing your build. You've also not answered the question, if someone is such a private person that the mere thought of someone being able to see their build in game is considered an invasion of privacy, why are they playing MMOs to start with if they're that private of a person? MMOs require you to interact with other people to do many forms of content. Why play MMOs at all if someone is that private of a person knowing full well it requires you to give away as much in-game data as it does? I really don't understand that.
And if I can only say it yet again, and I believe valoreah has already stated it too, I'm not against that. Have your inspect tool! I don't think anyone one is saying, "NO UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!!111oneeleven!" Just put in a simple opt in/out toggle! Everyone is happy then! Why is this so hard to understand?
[...]
Expecting others to eat a failed queue in the name of inclusiveness is not my idea of fun. I really don't get why it's so unreasonable to some people to expect folks are able to put forth a basic minimum amount of effort instead of leaching off the team. I really don't get that in today's game. [...]
because thats what cryptic tought us with basically all of the latest queust. close to all of them could be finished while being afk or doing maybe 1 thing at least on advanced, some even on elite.
and since thats the new standart based on the latest statements it wont change. we will be more likely see those more difficult queues removed
[...]
Expecting others to eat a failed queue in the name of inclusiveness is not my idea of fun. I really don't get why it's so unreasonable to some people to expect folks are able to put forth a basic minimum amount of effort instead of leaching off the team. I really don't get that in today's game. [...]
because thats what cryptic tought us with basically all of the latest queust. close to all of them could be finished while being afk or doing maybe 1 thing at least on advanced, some even on elite.
and since thats the new standart based on the latest statements it wont change. we will be more likely see those more difficult queues removed
It saddens me Kael said that in the latest livestream. Also that is the mindset "Jesse" is going with. "Old school" design? I think you devs need a reality check in regards to MMOs.
Never thought I would have to say that.
Also, i think alot of posters may not have realized. But i honesty believe cryptic have alrealy have internal discussions regarding a feature like this (my opinion only btw). STO gateway portal I think was honesty a direction they wanted to go. However internal shifts and shifts within the game made their development priorities move elsewhere.
Also the fact that people wanted gateway to do things by not logging into the game, which is the exact opposite of basically every MMO dev wants you to do.
As i think i related in a previous post. I suspect its a cost effective decision. The development time, support time after it is deployed and the cost verus what it would gain them just must not be feasible.
And no, the game is not funded entirely off player good will and rainbows Real world here folks Sadly good will doesnt play the bills.
And before someone says "Oh do this and I/players will buy more from the c store" please show me your third party verifable proof that this would happen
[...]
Expecting others to eat a failed queue in the name of inclusiveness is not my idea of fun. I really don't get why it's so unreasonable to some people to expect folks are able to put forth a basic minimum amount of effort instead of leaching off the team. I really don't get that in today's game. [...]
because thats what cryptic tought us with basically all of the latest queust. close to all of them could be finished while being afk or doing maybe 1 thing at least on advanced, some even on elite.
and since thats the new standart based on the latest statements it wont change. we will be more likely see those more difficult queues removed
It saddens me Kael said that in the latest livestream. Also that is the mindset "Jesse" is going with. "Old school" design? I think you devs need a reality check in regards to MMOs.
Never thought I would have to say that.
Also, i think alot of posters may not have realized. But i honesty believe cryptic have alrealy have internal discussions regarding a feature like this (my opinion only btw). STO gateway portal I think was honesty a direction they wanted to go. However internal shifts and shifts within the game made their development priorities move elsewhere.
Also the fact that people wanted gateway to do things by not logging into the game, which is the exact opposite of basically every MMO dev wants you to do.
As i think i related in a previous post. I suspect its a cost effective decision. The development time, support time after it is deployed and the cost verus what it would gain them just must not be feasible.
And no, the game is not funded entirely off player good will and rainbows Real world here folks Sadly good will doesnt play the bills.
And before someone says "Oh do this and I/players will buy more from the c store" please show me your third party verifable proof that this would happen
I'm not taking the mick. But I did not understand anything, of what you have just written.
I'm not taking the mick. But I did not understand anything, of what you have just written.
'cause they made a bunch of statements based on their personal opinion and their opinions are loosely connected to fact.
I have no problem with that Still did not make sense to me.
I'm Dyslexic and try not to make an issue of it (and go out of my way to re-read stuff more than the average person would). It still did not make sense to me.
*Shrugs*
Edit: Sometimes when I don't make sense (due to the aforementioned issues) I do appreciate people pointing it out to me.
Inspect tool does not change this or prevent this. At all.
No it on it's own, but that wasn't the point. For those folks who do legitimately want help it gives a valuable tool and starting point in getting them that help. There will always be those who refuse to learn and get better no matter what you do, however they are few and far between compared to those who legitimately do want to do well in game. Not adding such a valuable tool for sharing builds and forcing people to use 3rd party apps if you want to share a build in an organized and timely manor detracts from the game itself. Instead of having to spend 20-30 minutes or more sometimes filling out a build page on something like STO academy, and praying to Q that it's updated enough to have your current gear, a simple inspect and done solves that issue and gets them the help they're asking for faster.
Taking everything here as true, still nothing here has anything to do with the inspect tool. It won't stop people from joining randoms unprepared or ungeared or whatever. Not at all. So why are you bringing these issues up?
Once again inspect on its own won't prevent this, nor is that the intent of the inspect feature. It's mean to be a quick way to share builds and view info without having to go through third party apps and praying they're updated and wasting a bunch of time filling out some build page, when you can just right click, inspect, and done. Virtually every other modern mmo on the market out there today has this feature. I'm not going to repeat all the reasons I cited above as you can read those again above. Again the point is to give people a tool to share builds in a timely manor without having to waste a bunch of time and detract from the game, and it gives a valuable tool and starting point for those who do want help.
As to why i brought up those specific examples, the assertion was made that folks wanting an inspect feature purely want to judge others and exclude people from content. I demonstrated how that's not always the case. Sure you're going to have some folks that want to flaunt their DPS numbers and think they're better than everyone else, but you have that in every game and its not exclusive to STO. In the example of the fleet member, knowing their gear or lack of, tells me if they're ready for that Korfez run or not. As their fleet leader, I'm not going to pull punches and lie to them and suggest they're ready for content when they're certainly not. If I took them into Korfez or HSE unprepared, they're going to get trounced and it would be a miserable time for all. Plus the run is guaranteed to fail if they're not up to snuff. That person expecting myself and the other 3 fleet members in there to carry them is not fair to us. I want my fleet members to be able to complete any content in the game with little to no issues. At the same time I'm not going to hesitate to tell them if they're not ready for something yet or they need to up their game. I do them and the game itself a disservice otherwise. Having the inspect tool would allow me to check the gear of a fleet member, friend, or general person asking for help and give them more tailored advice alot faster than a 3rd party app ever could, and without all the frustration of if it's updated or not.
And if I can only say it yet again, and I believe valoreah has already stated it too, I'm not against that. Have your inspect tool! I don't think anyone one is saying, "NO UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!!111oneeleven!" Just put in a simple opt in/out toggle! Everyone is happy then! Why is this so hard to understand?
I understand it perfectly, I just don't buy the argument. What someone does while playing solo or in a single player game is on them. When it shifts to a multiplayer setting and something someone is doing that can negatively impact the team, the others have a right to say "hold the phone what are you doing." At that point there's more than just that single person to consider. Plus you give this information away freely each time you enter a TFO via buff bars and if there is a combat log running. All an inspect would do is simply formalize a bit more what's already there. The inspect also ZERO effect on you in the positive or the negative by someone inspecting you. It has no bearing on your ability to play the game in that regard. Once again if someone is that private of an individual that someone knowing their build bothers them, why are they playing MMOs to start with that require you to interact with other people? That makes zero sense to me.
Also have you considered perhaps that knowing your teammates' builds could lead to better planning in runs and make them more pleasant by playing to the strengths and weaknesses of each build?
I completely agree with you. However, there is a reason that Disco Balls are an F.C.T. topic. What I suggested is common sense (because it is) is that given the community reaction to Disco balls, are you honestly expecting there to be no outcry over people getting booted from teams because they were "inspected" and told the weren't up to some arbitrary standard? As a mod, you should know this. It's a no-brainer.
You simply saying something is "common sense" or a "no-brainer" doesn't make it so. We're also not going to debate disco balls. The only point I will say on that is there is a HUGE difference between the disco ball and the inspect feature. The disco ball can actually force another person's toon to do something against their will. The inspect feature has zero effect on the other person's toon and can't force them to do anything. In fact unless the person is trying to talk to you about something they see on your toon, then you won't even know you're being inspected. That's the chief difference between the two of them.
Secondly, anytime the devs do something in this game there is always someone complaining about it. It wasn't what they wanted, it didn't cater to their particular playstyle, it wasn't their favorite ship's turn for a t6 yet, it went into the lockboxes instead of cstore, or on down the line. I don't agree with every decision made myself and have voiced that disagreement to them several times, but to some people out in the community it seems that the devs can do no right. There's always going to be people complaining about something, which on its own is not a valid enough reason to withhold a tool like this. If we started holding back tools every single time someone complained for any reason then all development on the game would cease to exist and the game itself would stagnate.
Third on this point, there is no kick option currently for TFOs. The only exception to that rule being for people who are forming their own private groups, in which case they're free to set whatever standards they want for their group, even by your own admission. People aren't going to start magically getting kicked from TFOs just because an inspect function gets added to the game. That would mean that a kick function would need to have been added at the same time, and I don't see that happening for a long time if ever.
Fourth: There are certain queues that require a certain minimum amount of effort and gear or you're going to get trounced. Several queues also have various objectives that must be met or you will fail. If someone can't meet those basic standards outlined by the game itself, then they don't need to be in the queue because they're not ready for it yet. I really don't see what's so unreasonable about expecting folks to have at least a set of mk xi very rare mission reward gear and 8k dps as a hypothetical, or whatever the queue requires. Currently in queues where there is an AFK penalty, we're talking 1-2% of the damage for the entire run. That really on requires you to be conscious at the keyboard, and I don't get why some people find that unreasonable. If I'm going into a group as the tank in WoW or SWTOR as the tank, and the queue requires me to have all 435 level gear, but I'm only at 415, that wouldn't be fair to the group expecting them to keep me as the tank for that run. Likewise I would treat it the same way in STO. There's 4 other people in a group to consider besides me. If I can't pull my own weight, I shouldn't be in that run and certainly shouldn't be receiving any reward for it.
First, it is disingenuous to suggest that gear shaming isn't rampant in those games. I've seen it more often than not in WoW and in LoTRO. Second, that's great for SWTOR and WoW. WoW has a whole raid tier system which sort of requires a certain level of gear - which doesn't exist here. Nothing even close to it.
I played WoW for a bit in vanilla and came back during wrath. It's only in the last 3 years I've barely touched the game due to real life. I'm also a founder in SWTOR that's been playing since closed beta with my founder title as proof of this. In both games in all that time, unless someone is trying to talk smack, or is trying to cheese the system, I can count on hand how many times in a month I see someone trying to gear shame in either of those games. People that are determined to gear/dps shame someone are going to do it with or without an inspect function or damage meter. If/when that happens put them on ignore and report them if necessary. Best way to deal with people like that is to ignore them or better yet prove them wrong.
As to there not being basic standards people are required to have, the elite queues, especially Korfez and HSE, along with a few of the advanced queues would love to have a word with you on that one. In several of the queues like Korfez, HSE, Herald Sphere, and similar you have to bring the thunder or you're going to fail. That's not me placing an arbitrary standard, but the queue itself requiring certain minimum effort from the team. With STO being as simple as it is, with just a rudimentary of ship building and the game, getting a basic set of gear has never been easier in STO, especially with the free events that go around. If folks are having issues, then they should speak up so folks can tell them "okay if you're looking for Tetryon since it's your favorite energy type, missions X Y Z are good for getting a starting set of gear. I also recommend you use traits A B C, and boff powers D E F." I would rather take the time to help someone get a basic cohesive build put together than have them fumbling through the queues wondering why they're dying so much, or they can't seem to put out enough damage to avoid afk penalties etc. STO is not that complicated to figure out if someone wants to do it, even if they need a little help. If you put in 1 hour per day for a full week that's 7 hours of playtime total. That may not get you too much in SWTOR or WoW, but that can get you a full loadout in STO and some change. The question is going to be how badly the person in STO wants it and if they want to improve and get better or stay where they're at. Once again a few bad apples is not a valid enough reason in this instance to hold such a tool back.
For me personally, I don't care if someone can see my build or not. Makes no difference to me. I've said as much - repeatedly. If it is an optional thing, I'm all for it. Are people getting kicked from teams because some idiot thinks their build isn't "good enough" not harmful to the player(s) being kicked?
Honestly, as a mod here, I find it absolutely incredible that you cannot see that.
There is no kick feature in STO for public TFOs at the moment so this is a non-issue. I will humor you for the moment and assume for sake of argument it was a feature in STO. I find it more harmful to force 4 people to carry someone that's not yet ready for a particular bit of content as it's unfair to them, and gives the under-prepared person false hope that they're doing more than what they actually are. Thus you're setting them up for major disappointment down the road. If you're looking for a 100% abuse free feature, you're never going to find it because something like that doesn't exist. Folks who grief and harass others will try to do that with or without an inspect feature or a kick feature. If a kick feature existed in STO, it may suck for the person who gets kicked, but I find that 99% of the time if someone is getting kicked over and over again, there's usually a good reason for it and not just people abusing the system.
If someone can't pull the basic minimums required by the instance itself and the game itself, then someone telling them they're not ready for that content is not "some idiot who thinks their build isn't good enough." That's them not pulling the basic bare bones level of effort and weight required by the game. I would rather have 4 other people in a run only doing 4k DPS each that want to learn and get better and are teachable vs the alternative. The alternative being of course guys that are at 8k DPS, have no desire to learn and improve, and if you outdo them you must be a no-lifer using OP cheese gear and pay to win stuff. I'll help the 4k group as long as they're willing to learn and grow, even if they only improve by 1k each time I run with them. Having the inspect feature allows me to do just that in a timely manor.
So if I am reading some of these responses right, being forced to interact with someone by (heaven forbid) sending them a tell to chat about a build is bad - but those who choose to keep to themselves should be forced into interacting with others? Which is it?
No, that's not even close to what is being said. If someone doesn't want to talk to someone, they certainly have that right to not talk to them. I will make this as simple as I know how for you.
If someone is that concerned about someone knowing their build, and being able figure out what their build, and violating their privacy according to some, why is a person that concerned with privacy playing an MMO to start with? If someone is that concerned with privacy, why are they playing a game that requires you to interact with other people to complete various bits of content? Why are they going into TFOs that require 4 other people minimum, and where they're giving away enough data via their buff bars and combat logs to reverse engineer their build? That's like going into a packed shopping mall with your phone on speaker or with it in a clear case on your belt, and then getting mad at people around you for "snooping" on your phone conversation and what brand of phone you have. If someone is that concerned with privacy, why is the phone on speaker to start with, and why is the phone in a clear see-through case? They don't get to do something like that, then turn around and demand other people be kicked out of the mall for "snooping" on their phone and phone conversation. If they're that concerned about privacy, logic should tell them to keep the phone in an opaque non-clear case, don't put the phone on speaker, or don't bring the phone with them at all. Otherwise when someone steps into a TFO there are now 4 other people to take into account and consider besides just the original person. If they're doing something to negatively effect the gameplay of the other 4, then those other 4 have every right to know what it is.
You also don't lose the ability to communicate with someone just because an inspect feature comes into play. The inspect function can also lead to conversations as well. "I see you're running Phaser like I am but you're using X where as I'm using Y, can I ask why you're using X instead of Y?" I've had several conversations like that in WoW and SWTOR over the years. When I have put build pages out there of my builds for STO I have also gotten some questions about those. If someone is determined to make it a bad experience, they will generally find a way to do it. For those that want help and want to learn and grow, this gives a tool to help with that and eliminates alot of the extra "prep" time to create a build page on a 3rd party app or otherwise. It also grants a tool for fleet members and other players of similar gear levels to share different types of builds. Maybe guy A has a science build guy B wants to try. Guy B has a cannons build Guy A is interested in. Thus they do an inspect and discuss builds.
Overall an inspect has zero effect on someone's ability to play the game. It doesn't effect them in the positive or negative. It gives a starting point for folks who want help to get it by the veteran player(s) helping them being able to see their build in a timely manor. They don't have to learn some 3rd party app to display the data. It's overall a time-saver and quality of life thing for sharing builds.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
And if I can only say it yet again, and I believe valoreah has already stated it too, I'm not against that. Have your inspect tool! I don't think anyone one is saying, "NO UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!!111oneeleven!" Just put in a simple opt in/out toggle! Everyone is happy then! Why is this so hard to understand?
I understand it perfectly, I just don't buy the argument. What someone does while playing solo or in a single player game is on them. When it shifts to a multiplayer setting and something someone is doing that can negatively impact the team, the others have a right to say "hold the phone what are you doing." At that point there's more than just that single person to consider. Plus you give this information away freely each time you enter a TFO via buff bars and if there is a combat log running. All an inspect would do is simply formalize a bit more what's already there. The inspect also ZERO effect on you in the positive or the negative by someone inspecting you. It has no bearing on your ability to play the game in that regard. Once again if someone is that private of an individual that someone knowing their build bothers them, why are they playing MMOs to start with that require you to interact with other people? That makes zero sense to me.
Also have you considered perhaps that knowing your teammates' builds could lead to better planning in runs and make them more pleasant by playing to the strengths and weaknesses of each build?
I'm going to stop you right here, dark. While I agree that to play an MMO is implicitly agreeing to play with other people - at least to a certain degree, meaning "with friends" instead of "with everyone" - there is a big difference between checking someone's gear and what that someone might do wrong.
I should know, I was a raiding team leader for a long time, and played in others for even longer.
I made many, many exception for people that were still building up their gear on alts because "let's see what they do FIRST".
Vice versa, I refused to bring people that were absolutely incapable of following mechanics and yet had BiS for all their toons.
Gear does not equal skill, and while yeah, seeing someone with a mix of different weapons and/or different energies does not suggest that they know what they're doing, I still prefer to wait and see.
As for the "knowing your teammates' builds could lead to better planning" is a moot point:
- if you're friends/fleetmate, chances are you already know their build and you could always ask them directly if you're planning on doing something harder than usual;
- if you're pugging... dude, by the time you can get to them to actually SEE the build (because usually, you need to be in proximity to someone to be able to inspect them), it will be too late to change anything but some gear, and that might no be enough.
Also, seeing as we're missing a vote kick mechanic - though that's another story entirely - all of this would be useless, because you'd have no way of using it while pugging. And for private queues... if you think people will be all that ready to meet up somewhere to be inspected... nah.
Post edited by jennycolvin on
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Honestly I think it would require too much work on the devs part to implement such a feature in this game.
highly doubt that.
@darkbladejk
your statement could be most likely signed and i guess not much more to say there.
in swtor as example it helps to identify why someone is doing so well, so you could just get an idea of what to improve yourself. its just a great feature
I have to disagree with you, @felisean.
In SWTOR, unless you also know what rotation (or priority) the person in question is using, the gear alone does nothing to help understand why someone is doing so well. And up until now - unfortunately, 6.0 has changed things so much that we will not know for sure what works best for every class (or rather, every spec) for a while longer - there wasn't much to gain from inspecting someone in that way, (unless maybe to see if they were going with high or low alacrity, but that's just something that not every spec was benefitting from). Theory-crafting could be found (and still can) on the forums, on reddit, on vulkk, on hayete and a lot of other websites. There was no interpretation, no complexity there: you just had to check the numbers and then augment (and/or switch enhancements and/or mods) accordingly.
STO is another thing entirely, as there's not "forced" stats, there's no single bonus set that works for your class and your class only.
I'm not opposed to the feature, in fact I've already stated that it would be useful, but let's not warp the reality of things, please.
All in all, again, I agree with those that propose a way to turn it off if they don't want to be inspected - with the clause that if they do that, they won't be able to inspect others either.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Inspect tool does not change this or prevent this. At all.
No it on it's own, but that wasn't the point. For those folks who do legitimately want help it gives a valuable tool and starting point in getting them that help. There will always be those who refuse to learn and get better no matter what you do, however they are few and far between compared to those who legitimately do want to do well in game. Not adding such a valuable tool for sharing builds and forcing people to use 3rd party apps if you want to share a build in an organized and timely manor detracts from the game itself. Instead of having to spend 20-30 minutes or more sometimes filling out a build page on something like STO academy, and praying to Q that it's updated enough to have your current gear, a simple inspect and done solves that issue and gets them the help they're asking for faster.
No one is arguing an inspect tool wouldn't be a useful thing for sharing builds easier in game, if done right (which is a big if here, lets be honest) and no one is saying it shouldn't exist at all. There is no reason to keep going on about how useful it could be to people who want to share and who want to inspect.
Taking everything here as true, still nothing here has anything to do with the inspect tool. It won't stop people from joining randoms unprepared or ungeared or whatever. Not at all. So why are you bringing these issues up?
Once again inspect on its own won't prevent this, nor is that the intent of the inspect feature. It's mean to be a quick way to share builds and view info without having to go through third party apps and praying they're updated and wasting a bunch of time filling out some build page, when you can just right click, inspect, and done. Virtually every other modern mmo on the market out there today has this feature. I'm not going to repeat all the reasons I cited above as you can read those again above. Again the point is to give people a tool to share builds in a timely manor without having to waste a bunch of time and detract from the game, and it gives a valuable tool and starting point for those who do want help.
As to why i brought up those specific examples, the assertion was made that folks wanting an inspect feature purely want to judge others and exclude people from content. I demonstrated how that's not always the case. Sure you're going to have some folks that want to flaunt their DPS numbers and think they're better than everyone else, but you have that in every game and its not exclusive to STO. In the example of the fleet member, knowing their gear or lack of, tells me if they're ready for that Korfez run or not. As their fleet leader, I'm not going to pull punches and lie to them and suggest they're ready for content when they're certainly not. If I took them into Korfez or HSE unprepared, they're going to get trounced and it would be a miserable time for all. Plus the run is guaranteed to fail if they're not up to snuff. That person expecting myself and the other 3 fleet members in there to carry them is not fair to us. I want my fleet members to be able to complete any content in the game with little to no issues. At the same time I'm not going to hesitate to tell them if they're not ready for something yet or they need to up their game. I do them and the game itself a disservice otherwise. Having the inspect tool would allow me to check the gear of a fleet member, friend, or general person asking for help and give them more tailored advice alot faster than a 3rd party app ever could, and without all the frustration of if it's updated or not.
Most other MMOs also have more stringent gear requirements and more clear lines of performance capabilities. STO does not. You want to be an elitist and exclude people based on your prejudging of their gear alone. Again, that is not being argued against, despite the problems with a narrow idea of what constitutes a good or even sufficient build. You do you. Don't PUG.
I do PUG, and the chaos makes it interesting. Adapting to a team doing things you don't expect makes it interesting, far more than a boring predetermined thing where its all mapped out beforehand.
The issue remains, inspecting me and others who would turn off inspect is utterly irrelevant and affects you not even a little. What happens if one of us want to team with you? You simply say turn on inspect. If we say no, you say, sorry not teaming with you then. It is that easy.
And if I can only say it yet again, and I believe valoreah has already stated it too, I'm not against that. Have your inspect tool! I don't think anyone one is saying, "NO UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!!111oneeleven!" Just put in a simple opt in/out toggle! Everyone is happy then! Why is this so hard to understand?
I understand it perfectly, I just don't buy the argument. What someone does while playing solo or in a single player game is on them. When it shifts to a multiplayer setting and something someone is doing that can negatively impact the team, the others have a right to say "hold the phone what are you doing." At that point there's more than just that single person to consider. Plus you give this information away freely each time you enter a TFO via buff bars and if there is a combat log running. All an inspect would do is simply formalize a bit more what's already there. The inspect also ZERO effect on you in the positive or the negative by someone inspecting you. It has no bearing on your ability to play the game in that regard. Once again if someone is that private of an individual that someone knowing their build bothers them, why are they playing MMOs to start with that require you to interact with other people? That makes zero sense to me.
Also have you considered perhaps that knowing your teammates' builds could lead to better planning in runs and make them more pleasant by playing to the strengths and weaknesses of each build?
It isn't an argument against the inspect tool. It is an argument for an optional checkbox to turn it on or off. You're arguing for the tool itself, I'm arguing for the option. You're not even trying to argue against the option, you're ignoring it completely.
You keep going on these silly what ifs about bad teammates and yet I deal with them frequently because I PUG. Just the other day I did ISA where someone split and tried to solo the other side before we even killed the cube on the first side. Yeah we lost the optional. TRIBBLE happens. We cleaned up the mess and finished. No one has a bullet hole in the back of their chair for the mess. No one lost their job and home for failing the optional. We collectively wondered wtf the other person was thinking and moved on. No big deal. Inspect wouldn't have solved that problem either.
And you say it doesn't affect me, but it absolutely would. I know it does. People like you exist and sometimes you PUG and forget you're PUGging and don't have the authority to start criticizing other people's builds just cause you don't like them. It is extremely sad how few people in this thread think you should start a conversation with someone before looking up their stats and gear.
Do you have any idea how weird it is to have people send me tells out of the blue commenting on my huge accolade score? It freaks me out, no matter how friendly they are trying to be, because they spent some time looking at what they could find out about me before saying a single word to me, and I wasn't even aware they were staring at me. That isn't normal human interaction, no matter how much it has been normalized.
If on the other hand you send me a tell saying something like, "Hi! I was in queue XYZ with you and was intrigued by your build and tactics. I'm really curious about how you put it together, so would you mind sharing your build with me? Also I like the way your ship looks, you did a great job with the customization," then my first thought is that you're trying to hit on me, but my second is probably going to be, "Sure they seem friendly enough, why not get into that unmarked van if they have candy?" And I'd probably meet up and flip the toggle so you can look over the build. Flies, honey, you know? Humans are weird like that.
For me personally, I don't care if someone can see my build or not. Makes no difference to me. I've said as much - repeatedly. If it is an optional thing, I'm all for it. Are people getting kicked from teams because some idiot thinks their build isn't "good enough" not harmful to the player(s) being kicked?
Honestly, as a mod here, I find it absolutely incredible that you cannot see that.
There is no kick feature in STO for public TFOs at the moment so this is a non-issue. I will humor you for the moment and assume for sake of argument it was a feature in STO. I find it more harmful to force 4 people to carry someone that's not yet ready for a particular bit of content as it's unfair to them, and gives the under-prepared person false hope that they're doing more than what they actually are. Thus you're setting them up for major disappointment down the road. If you're looking for a 100% abuse free feature, you're never going to find it because something like that doesn't exist. Folks who grief and harass others will try to do that with or without an inspect feature or a kick feature. If a kick feature existed in STO, it may suck for the person who gets kicked, but I find that 99% of the time if someone is getting kicked over and over again, there's usually a good reason for it and not just people abusing the system.
If someone can't pull the basic minimums required by the instance itself and the game itself, then someone telling them they're not ready for that content is not "some idiot who thinks their build isn't good enough." That's them not pulling the basic bare bones level of effort and weight required by the game. I would rather have 4 other people in a run only doing 4k DPS each that want to learn and get better and are teachable vs the alternative. The alternative being of course guys that are at 8k DPS, have no desire to learn and improve, and if you outdo them you must be a no-lifer using OP cheese gear and pay to win stuff. I'll help the 4k group as long as they're willing to learn and grow, even if they only improve by 1k each time I run with them. Having the inspect feature allows me to do just that in a timely manor.
The answer here is simple. Don't PUG. Inspect would help you build the team you want, and I'm fine with that, but if you're PUGging, you don't need to know anyone's build. You rolled the dice and you get what you get. You deal with it as best as you can. Inspect will not change that at all, ever.
It's also sad you think that going with 4 people would be better than 5 if you could kick the 5th for having a build you don't like. That nonsense is exactly why I'm glad there is no vote kick in the game.
Just because I walk out my front door and into the wide world of society, doesn't mean someone can just walk up to me and look at my clothing tags because they like the jacket I'm wearing. Just because I drive my car to the grocery store and park in a public parking lot, doesn't mean that someone can just come up and pop the hood to see what kind of engine I've got under there. Certainly, some people do not mind being ogled by others, but some other people become very uncomfortable with such attention, even more so when they learn it was being done unawares and without permission.
Granted this is a video game and not real life, but my point is, just because you're in an MMO with other people, as in real life, it neither negates any sense of privacy a player may feel they deserve, nor does it confer any special rights on another player to invade that sense of privacy. So, the argument of "if you're so private why are you playing an MMO?" falls flat as far as I'm concerned, because we all go out into the world every day and do not surrender our rights of self to any random passersby that may want to know more than they can see on the surface. In my humble opinion, it should be no different here.
Granting an ability for any random player to look under your hood or peek under your dress at will, would violate the sense of privacy a player may feel they should have despite being in an MMO with other players. If such a hypothetical inspect feature should be implemented, perhaps it should only function when the proposed "target" grants permission, the player thereby retains their sense of privacy, but the usefulness of sharing such information is still an option.
Player A asks Player B for help with their build. Player A grants Player B permission to "inspect" their gear to facilitate the coaching. Problem solved, because Player A has control over sharing and Player B is enabled to render requested assistance.
Player A joins an RTFO but doesn't appear to be performing to the expectations of Player B. Player B attempts to "inspect" Player A to affirm his bias. Player B cannot, because Player A has not voluntarily allowed the inspection. Problem solved, because Player A has retained their sense of privacy over, and Player B through PUGing RTFOs has already accepted they get what they get, not only with regard to which TFO queues up, but also whomever they are teamed up with.
Player A, B, C, D, and E all decide to team together for a particular TFO. All players share their respective builds for inspection. Player B offers some advice to Player A on how they can improve their build for the particular TFO. Player A makes the suggested changes. Alternatively, Player A refuses to share their build with the team. The team decides not to team with Player A due to not being able to ascertain whether Player A is prepared for this TFO, and recruit Player F as a substitute. Problem solved, because all players had a choice and worked together to prepare for the TFO.
In my opinion, this is the only fair and reasonable way to implement such a feature where it addresses all possible concerns. If you're advocating to just be able to inspect players on a whim and without their knowledge or permission, then I cannot support your position, because that necessitates the other players surrendering their ability to choose. And player choice should be paramount when it comes to sharing their information.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
No one is arguing an inspect tool wouldn't be a useful thing for sharing builds easier in game, if done right (which is a big if here, lets be honest) and no one is saying it shouldn't exist at all. There is no reason to keep going on about how useful it could be to people who want to share and who want to inspect.
Unfortunately, that's not true. There is at least one person trying to argue that the idea has no merit at all.
In my opinion, this is the only fair and reasonable way to implement such a feature where it addresses all possible concerns. If you're advocating to just be able to inspect players on a whim and without their knowledge or permission, then I cannot support your position, because that necessitates the other players surrendering their ability to choose. And player choice should be paramount when it comes to sharing their information.
Inspect with an opt out works fine for me. I just want it because it would be far easier then people linking all their gear in chat and then thinking that's good enough to help with their build. I have no idea what their BoFF powers are, traits, anything. They can leave it off the entire time and then just turn it on when they would like to get help or share their build with others.. that's fine.
Apparently, not everyone shares/talks builds in game.. that's cool, to each their own. But many of us do, and being able to just group in the same zone and use an inspect feature would be quite helpful.
Again though, this is a big debate about nothing, if Cryptic hasn't added this in the last 10 years, I see no reason to think it would be considered today.
Comments
I do feel the deja vu in some of the arguments here, but I wouldn't have expected the "no" side to bring it up first.
If this is a needed feature for the game well we have managed what 9 years with out it so far. So i don't see the game falling apart over not having the ability to place a random person under a microscope.
As to privacy and the ideal of it not being a thing in game and you give away your information any way. Well if you want to pick thru the information and deconstruct or reverse engineer a build more power to you no one is saying that information should be less.
But it should also be respected for those not wanting the inspection and rather talk to a person in regards to build item or otherwise.
all this regarding i have a reason to know cause i am in a tfo with x random person to see who is not pulling there part. In a word NO! you have no reason or right. If anything you by clicking the join have decided to take what ever you may get. Not that the other person has decided to get some probe of them self from some random player.
If you "MUST KNOW" what is in your tfo private or fleet for a team for it.
I do not care in regards to how it is worded there is no right to know, and a person if only in a mental state that even causes anxiety over being berated shamed or attacked over this feature is more than enough let there be a opt out as well as opt in.
As to my own feelings on it. If i want to try for as high a dps or meta build i can get. Or if i want to load up the defiant in all common gear and grab my set of holo DS9 bridge officers dress in the admiralty uniform from the ds9 set and have theme night blue quality Bajoran ground weapons. Then that is my option to do so with out question or scanned by some random passer by that wont engage me in a chat.
The same as i turn down random friend requests that have never talked to me. I opt to provide information to those i talk with. The ideal that in a mmo i want to chat and know something of the person that wants to use me as a slide under a microscope before hand is not some crazy out of this world ideal.
As I said, I'd like to have this feature but I won't die if I don't and if I see something that I can't identify, I usually send out a /tell. More often then not, I get absolute silence. Once I was even put on ignore for asking "hey, cool rifle! Can I ask which one is that?".
All in all, even though I highly doubt they're ever gonna implent an inspect feature, I hope they do give the option of disabling it - in a "nobody can inspect you, but you can't inspect anyone either" kinda way because fair is fair - so that everyone will be happy.
Thinly veiled insults, calling out people for thinking differently than you and arguing about "rights" and "feeling assulted" by a simple question is, quite frankly, blowing this whole thing out of proportion.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
that will take umbrage and respond accordingly.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
In an earlier post you said and I quote below.
This basically reads to me as anyone who's wanting an inspect feature is opposing "common sense."
Also I'm sorry but no, disco balls are nothing like a real life physical assault. No just a billion times no. With that said virtually every other MMO out there today with SWTOR and WoW being 2 primary examples have an inspect function and you rarely hear about gear shaming and such. There's the odd person who tries to DPS shame now and again with the combat log now, yet that's not a valid enough reason to remove the combat log. No feature is 100% abuse proof as that simply doesn't exist.
The other thing you miss is that if someone joins a group and is woefully under-equipped it can and does effect the team. If someone is not pulling their weight and pulling the basic minimum the queue requires, whether that's 10k, or 50k, then they are guaranteeing that run to fail and are being allowed to negatively impact the gaming experience of the other 4 people in there because they joined something they were not yet ready for. No one person is so important that their experience should trump the other 4 people. Once our hypothetical person gets a little more equipment and ups their output, then they will be ready for that queue. A prime example I've been using is Korfez and HSE. You have to bring the thunder for those queues. If your team doesn't have it, then you will fail just by the design of the queue itself. That's not players imposing those limits, that's the game itself. With Korfez if you don't have the damage output and strategy to clear that first wave, it automatically fails you. I want everyone to be able to get into Korfez, HSE, and other queues in game, but not before they're ready for it. That's not judging, that's expecting that if someone is joining a queue, they're able to pull the basic minimum required by the queue itself. If they can't do that then they don't need to be in there. Expecting others to eat a failed queue in the name of inclusiveness is not my idea of fun. I really don't get why it's so unreasonable to some people to expect folks are able to put forth a basic minimum amount of effort instead of leaching off the team. I really don't get that in today's game.
As for the inspect function, it's a quality of life tool that would be a valuable asset in sharing builds without having to resort to 3rd party tools or otherwise, much like an official Cryptic parser would be for the combat log. You don't lose the ability to communicate with people just because an inspect feature is implemented. Sto Academy is super behind on updates, and things like Discord are 3rd party. Even then I have to ask, what's the difference between something like the screen sharer in Discord showing a person's build and an in game inspect feature? You've yet to explain that or how you're harmed by someone knowing your build. You've also not answered the question, if someone is such a private person that the mere thought of someone being able to see their build in game is considered an invasion of privacy, why are they playing MMOs to start with if they're that private of a person? MMOs require you to interact with other people to do many forms of content. Why play MMOs at all if someone is that private of a person knowing full well it requires you to give away as much in-game data as it does? I really don't understand that.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
I never insulted anyone. So I hope I am not being included. I am in favor of a toggle on/off for an Inspect feature. As previous posters have said a combat parser as well as looking at the icons and bars can show what a person has. But yet I would like the insults to stop and people to act and talk like the one on the other side is a fellow human being.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
My character Tsin'xing
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Inspect tool does not change this or prevent this. At all.
Taking everything here as true, still nothing here has anything to do with the inspect tool. It won't stop people from joining randoms unprepared or ungeared or whatever. Not at all. So why are you bringing these issues up?
And if I can only say it yet again, and I believe valoreah has already stated it too, I'm not against that. Have your inspect tool! I don't think anyone one is saying, "NO UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!!111oneeleven!" Just put in a simple opt in/out toggle! Everyone is happy then! Why is this so hard to understand?
because thats what cryptic tought us with basically all of the latest queust. close to all of them could be finished while being afk or doing maybe 1 thing at least on advanced, some even on elite.
and since thats the new standart based on the latest statements it wont change. we will be more likely see those more difficult queues removed
ingame: @Felisean
It saddens me Kael said that in the latest livestream. Also that is the mindset "Jesse" is going with. "Old school" design? I think you devs need a reality check in regards to MMOs.
Never thought I would have to say that.
Also, i think alot of posters may not have realized. But i honesty believe cryptic have alrealy have internal discussions regarding a feature like this (my opinion only btw). STO gateway portal I think was honesty a direction they wanted to go. However internal shifts and shifts within the game made their development priorities move elsewhere.
Also the fact that people wanted gateway to do things by not logging into the game, which is the exact opposite of basically every MMO dev wants you to do.
As i think i related in a previous post. I suspect its a cost effective decision. The development time, support time after it is deployed and the cost verus what it would gain them just must not be feasible.
And no, the game is not funded entirely off player good will and rainbows
And before someone says "Oh do this and I/players will buy more from the c store" please show me your third party verifable proof that this would happen
I'm not taking the mick. But I did not understand anything, of what you have just written.
My character Tsin'xing
I have no problem with that
I'm Dyslexic and try not to make an issue of it (and go out of my way to re-read stuff more than the average person would). It still did not make sense to me.
*Shrugs*
Edit: Sometimes when I don't make sense (due to the aforementioned issues) I do appreciate people pointing it out to me.
So please don't take it as an 'attack'.
No it on it's own, but that wasn't the point. For those folks who do legitimately want help it gives a valuable tool and starting point in getting them that help. There will always be those who refuse to learn and get better no matter what you do, however they are few and far between compared to those who legitimately do want to do well in game. Not adding such a valuable tool for sharing builds and forcing people to use 3rd party apps if you want to share a build in an organized and timely manor detracts from the game itself. Instead of having to spend 20-30 minutes or more sometimes filling out a build page on something like STO academy, and praying to Q that it's updated enough to have your current gear, a simple inspect and done solves that issue and gets them the help they're asking for faster.
Once again inspect on its own won't prevent this, nor is that the intent of the inspect feature. It's mean to be a quick way to share builds and view info without having to go through third party apps and praying they're updated and wasting a bunch of time filling out some build page, when you can just right click, inspect, and done. Virtually every other modern mmo on the market out there today has this feature. I'm not going to repeat all the reasons I cited above as you can read those again above. Again the point is to give people a tool to share builds in a timely manor without having to waste a bunch of time and detract from the game, and it gives a valuable tool and starting point for those who do want help.
As to why i brought up those specific examples, the assertion was made that folks wanting an inspect feature purely want to judge others and exclude people from content. I demonstrated how that's not always the case. Sure you're going to have some folks that want to flaunt their DPS numbers and think they're better than everyone else, but you have that in every game and its not exclusive to STO. In the example of the fleet member, knowing their gear or lack of, tells me if they're ready for that Korfez run or not. As their fleet leader, I'm not going to pull punches and lie to them and suggest they're ready for content when they're certainly not. If I took them into Korfez or HSE unprepared, they're going to get trounced and it would be a miserable time for all. Plus the run is guaranteed to fail if they're not up to snuff. That person expecting myself and the other 3 fleet members in there to carry them is not fair to us. I want my fleet members to be able to complete any content in the game with little to no issues. At the same time I'm not going to hesitate to tell them if they're not ready for something yet or they need to up their game. I do them and the game itself a disservice otherwise. Having the inspect tool would allow me to check the gear of a fleet member, friend, or general person asking for help and give them more tailored advice alot faster than a 3rd party app ever could, and without all the frustration of if it's updated or not.
I understand it perfectly, I just don't buy the argument. What someone does while playing solo or in a single player game is on them. When it shifts to a multiplayer setting and something someone is doing that can negatively impact the team, the others have a right to say "hold the phone what are you doing." At that point there's more than just that single person to consider. Plus you give this information away freely each time you enter a TFO via buff bars and if there is a combat log running. All an inspect would do is simply formalize a bit more what's already there. The inspect also ZERO effect on you in the positive or the negative by someone inspecting you. It has no bearing on your ability to play the game in that regard. Once again if someone is that private of an individual that someone knowing their build bothers them, why are they playing MMOs to start with that require you to interact with other people? That makes zero sense to me.
Also have you considered perhaps that knowing your teammates' builds could lead to better planning in runs and make them more pleasant by playing to the strengths and weaknesses of each build?
You simply saying something is "common sense" or a "no-brainer" doesn't make it so. We're also not going to debate disco balls. The only point I will say on that is there is a HUGE difference between the disco ball and the inspect feature. The disco ball can actually force another person's toon to do something against their will. The inspect feature has zero effect on the other person's toon and can't force them to do anything. In fact unless the person is trying to talk to you about something they see on your toon, then you won't even know you're being inspected. That's the chief difference between the two of them.
Secondly, anytime the devs do something in this game there is always someone complaining about it. It wasn't what they wanted, it didn't cater to their particular playstyle, it wasn't their favorite ship's turn for a t6 yet, it went into the lockboxes instead of cstore, or on down the line. I don't agree with every decision made myself and have voiced that disagreement to them several times, but to some people out in the community it seems that the devs can do no right. There's always going to be people complaining about something, which on its own is not a valid enough reason to withhold a tool like this. If we started holding back tools every single time someone complained for any reason then all development on the game would cease to exist and the game itself would stagnate.
Third on this point, there is no kick option currently for TFOs. The only exception to that rule being for people who are forming their own private groups, in which case they're free to set whatever standards they want for their group, even by your own admission. People aren't going to start magically getting kicked from TFOs just because an inspect function gets added to the game. That would mean that a kick function would need to have been added at the same time, and I don't see that happening for a long time if ever.
Fourth: There are certain queues that require a certain minimum amount of effort and gear or you're going to get trounced. Several queues also have various objectives that must be met or you will fail. If someone can't meet those basic standards outlined by the game itself, then they don't need to be in the queue because they're not ready for it yet. I really don't see what's so unreasonable about expecting folks to have at least a set of mk xi very rare mission reward gear and 8k dps as a hypothetical, or whatever the queue requires. Currently in queues where there is an AFK penalty, we're talking 1-2% of the damage for the entire run. That really on requires you to be conscious at the keyboard, and I don't get why some people find that unreasonable. If I'm going into a group as the tank in WoW or SWTOR as the tank, and the queue requires me to have all 435 level gear, but I'm only at 415, that wouldn't be fair to the group expecting them to keep me as the tank for that run. Likewise I would treat it the same way in STO. There's 4 other people in a group to consider besides me. If I can't pull my own weight, I shouldn't be in that run and certainly shouldn't be receiving any reward for it.
I played WoW for a bit in vanilla and came back during wrath. It's only in the last 3 years I've barely touched the game due to real life. I'm also a founder in SWTOR that's been playing since closed beta with my founder title as proof of this. In both games in all that time, unless someone is trying to talk smack, or is trying to cheese the system, I can count on hand how many times in a month I see someone trying to gear shame in either of those games. People that are determined to gear/dps shame someone are going to do it with or without an inspect function or damage meter. If/when that happens put them on ignore and report them if necessary. Best way to deal with people like that is to ignore them or better yet prove them wrong.
As to there not being basic standards people are required to have, the elite queues, especially Korfez and HSE, along with a few of the advanced queues would love to have a word with you on that one. In several of the queues like Korfez, HSE, Herald Sphere, and similar you have to bring the thunder or you're going to fail. That's not me placing an arbitrary standard, but the queue itself requiring certain minimum effort from the team. With STO being as simple as it is, with just a rudimentary of ship building and the game, getting a basic set of gear has never been easier in STO, especially with the free events that go around. If folks are having issues, then they should speak up so folks can tell them "okay if you're looking for Tetryon since it's your favorite energy type, missions X Y Z are good for getting a starting set of gear. I also recommend you use traits A B C, and boff powers D E F." I would rather take the time to help someone get a basic cohesive build put together than have them fumbling through the queues wondering why they're dying so much, or they can't seem to put out enough damage to avoid afk penalties etc. STO is not that complicated to figure out if someone wants to do it, even if they need a little help. If you put in 1 hour per day for a full week that's 7 hours of playtime total. That may not get you too much in SWTOR or WoW, but that can get you a full loadout in STO and some change. The question is going to be how badly the person in STO wants it and if they want to improve and get better or stay where they're at. Once again a few bad apples is not a valid enough reason in this instance to hold such a tool back.
There is no kick feature in STO for public TFOs at the moment so this is a non-issue. I will humor you for the moment and assume for sake of argument it was a feature in STO. I find it more harmful to force 4 people to carry someone that's not yet ready for a particular bit of content as it's unfair to them, and gives the under-prepared person false hope that they're doing more than what they actually are. Thus you're setting them up for major disappointment down the road. If you're looking for a 100% abuse free feature, you're never going to find it because something like that doesn't exist. Folks who grief and harass others will try to do that with or without an inspect feature or a kick feature. If a kick feature existed in STO, it may suck for the person who gets kicked, but I find that 99% of the time if someone is getting kicked over and over again, there's usually a good reason for it and not just people abusing the system.
If someone can't pull the basic minimums required by the instance itself and the game itself, then someone telling them they're not ready for that content is not "some idiot who thinks their build isn't good enough." That's them not pulling the basic bare bones level of effort and weight required by the game. I would rather have 4 other people in a run only doing 4k DPS each that want to learn and get better and are teachable vs the alternative. The alternative being of course guys that are at 8k DPS, have no desire to learn and improve, and if you outdo them you must be a no-lifer using OP cheese gear and pay to win stuff. I'll help the 4k group as long as they're willing to learn and grow, even if they only improve by 1k each time I run with them. Having the inspect feature allows me to do just that in a timely manor.
No, that's not even close to what is being said. If someone doesn't want to talk to someone, they certainly have that right to not talk to them. I will make this as simple as I know how for you.
If someone is that concerned about someone knowing their build, and being able figure out what their build, and violating their privacy according to some, why is a person that concerned with privacy playing an MMO to start with? If someone is that concerned with privacy, why are they playing a game that requires you to interact with other people to complete various bits of content? Why are they going into TFOs that require 4 other people minimum, and where they're giving away enough data via their buff bars and combat logs to reverse engineer their build? That's like going into a packed shopping mall with your phone on speaker or with it in a clear case on your belt, and then getting mad at people around you for "snooping" on your phone conversation and what brand of phone you have. If someone is that concerned with privacy, why is the phone on speaker to start with, and why is the phone in a clear see-through case? They don't get to do something like that, then turn around and demand other people be kicked out of the mall for "snooping" on their phone and phone conversation. If they're that concerned about privacy, logic should tell them to keep the phone in an opaque non-clear case, don't put the phone on speaker, or don't bring the phone with them at all. Otherwise when someone steps into a TFO there are now 4 other people to take into account and consider besides just the original person. If they're doing something to negatively effect the gameplay of the other 4, then those other 4 have every right to know what it is.
You also don't lose the ability to communicate with someone just because an inspect feature comes into play. The inspect function can also lead to conversations as well. "I see you're running Phaser like I am but you're using X where as I'm using Y, can I ask why you're using X instead of Y?" I've had several conversations like that in WoW and SWTOR over the years. When I have put build pages out there of my builds for STO I have also gotten some questions about those. If someone is determined to make it a bad experience, they will generally find a way to do it. For those that want help and want to learn and grow, this gives a tool to help with that and eliminates alot of the extra "prep" time to create a build page on a 3rd party app or otherwise. It also grants a tool for fleet members and other players of similar gear levels to share different types of builds. Maybe guy A has a science build guy B wants to try. Guy B has a cannons build Guy A is interested in. Thus they do an inspect and discuss builds.
Overall an inspect has zero effect on someone's ability to play the game. It doesn't effect them in the positive or negative. It gives a starting point for folks who want help to get it by the veteran player(s) helping them being able to see their build in a timely manor. They don't have to learn some 3rd party app to display the data. It's overall a time-saver and quality of life thing for sharing builds.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
I should know, I was a raiding team leader for a long time, and played in others for even longer.
I made many, many exception for people that were still building up their gear on alts because "let's see what they do FIRST".
Vice versa, I refused to bring people that were absolutely incapable of following mechanics and yet had BiS for all their toons.
Gear does not equal skill, and while yeah, seeing someone with a mix of different weapons and/or different energies does not suggest that they know what they're doing, I still prefer to wait and see.
As for the "knowing your teammates' builds could lead to better planning" is a moot point:
- if you're friends/fleetmate, chances are you already know their build and you could always ask them directly if you're planning on doing something harder than usual;
- if you're pugging... dude, by the time you can get to them to actually SEE the build (because usually, you need to be in proximity to someone to be able to inspect them), it will be too late to change anything but some gear, and that might no be enough.
Also, seeing as we're missing a vote kick mechanic - though that's another story entirely - all of this would be useless, because you'd have no way of using it while pugging. And for private queues... if you think people will be all that ready to meet up somewhere to be inspected... nah.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
highly doubt that.
@darkbladejk
your statement could be most likely signed and i guess not much more to say there.
in swtor as example it helps to identify why someone is doing so well, so you could just get an idea of what to improve yourself. its just a great feature
ingame: @Felisean
In SWTOR, unless you also know what rotation (or priority) the person in question is using, the gear alone does nothing to help understand why someone is doing so well. And up until now - unfortunately, 6.0 has changed things so much that we will not know for sure what works best for every class (or rather, every spec) for a while longer - there wasn't much to gain from inspecting someone in that way, (unless maybe to see if they were going with high or low alacrity, but that's just something that not every spec was benefitting from). Theory-crafting could be found (and still can) on the forums, on reddit, on vulkk, on hayete and a lot of other websites. There was no interpretation, no complexity there: you just had to check the numbers and then augment (and/or switch enhancements and/or mods) accordingly.
STO is another thing entirely, as there's not "forced" stats, there's no single bonus set that works for your class and your class only.
I'm not opposed to the feature, in fact I've already stated that it would be useful, but let's not warp the reality of things, please.
All in all, again, I agree with those that propose a way to turn it off if they don't want to be inspected - with the clause that if they do that, they won't be able to inspect others either.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
No one is arguing an inspect tool wouldn't be a useful thing for sharing builds easier in game, if done right (which is a big if here, lets be honest) and no one is saying it shouldn't exist at all. There is no reason to keep going on about how useful it could be to people who want to share and who want to inspect.
Most other MMOs also have more stringent gear requirements and more clear lines of performance capabilities. STO does not. You want to be an elitist and exclude people based on your prejudging of their gear alone. Again, that is not being argued against, despite the problems with a narrow idea of what constitutes a good or even sufficient build. You do you. Don't PUG.
I do PUG, and the chaos makes it interesting. Adapting to a team doing things you don't expect makes it interesting, far more than a boring predetermined thing where its all mapped out beforehand.
The issue remains, inspecting me and others who would turn off inspect is utterly irrelevant and affects you not even a little. What happens if one of us want to team with you? You simply say turn on inspect. If we say no, you say, sorry not teaming with you then. It is that easy.
It isn't an argument against the inspect tool. It is an argument for an optional checkbox to turn it on or off. You're arguing for the tool itself, I'm arguing for the option. You're not even trying to argue against the option, you're ignoring it completely.
You keep going on these silly what ifs about bad teammates and yet I deal with them frequently because I PUG. Just the other day I did ISA where someone split and tried to solo the other side before we even killed the cube on the first side. Yeah we lost the optional. TRIBBLE happens. We cleaned up the mess and finished. No one has a bullet hole in the back of their chair for the mess. No one lost their job and home for failing the optional. We collectively wondered wtf the other person was thinking and moved on. No big deal. Inspect wouldn't have solved that problem either.
And you say it doesn't affect me, but it absolutely would. I know it does. People like you exist and sometimes you PUG and forget you're PUGging and don't have the authority to start criticizing other people's builds just cause you don't like them. It is extremely sad how few people in this thread think you should start a conversation with someone before looking up their stats and gear.
Do you have any idea how weird it is to have people send me tells out of the blue commenting on my huge accolade score? It freaks me out, no matter how friendly they are trying to be, because they spent some time looking at what they could find out about me before saying a single word to me, and I wasn't even aware they were staring at me. That isn't normal human interaction, no matter how much it has been normalized.
If on the other hand you send me a tell saying something like, "Hi! I was in queue XYZ with you and was intrigued by your build and tactics. I'm really curious about how you put it together, so would you mind sharing your build with me? Also I like the way your ship looks, you did a great job with the customization," then my first thought is that you're trying to hit on me, but my second is probably going to be, "Sure they seem friendly enough, why not get into that unmarked van if they have candy?" And I'd probably meet up and flip the toggle so you can look over the build. Flies, honey, you know? Humans are weird like that.
The answer here is simple. Don't PUG. Inspect would help you build the team you want, and I'm fine with that, but if you're PUGging, you don't need to know anyone's build. You rolled the dice and you get what you get. You deal with it as best as you can. Inspect will not change that at all, ever.
It's also sad you think that going with 4 people would be better than 5 if you could kick the 5th for having a build you don't like. That nonsense is exactly why I'm glad there is no vote kick in the game.
Granted this is a video game and not real life, but my point is, just because you're in an MMO with other people, as in real life, it neither negates any sense of privacy a player may feel they deserve, nor does it confer any special rights on another player to invade that sense of privacy. So, the argument of "if you're so private why are you playing an MMO?" falls flat as far as I'm concerned, because we all go out into the world every day and do not surrender our rights of self to any random passersby that may want to know more than they can see on the surface. In my humble opinion, it should be no different here.
Granting an ability for any random player to look under your hood or peek under your dress at will, would violate the sense of privacy a player may feel they should have despite being in an MMO with other players. If such a hypothetical inspect feature should be implemented, perhaps it should only function when the proposed "target" grants permission, the player thereby retains their sense of privacy, but the usefulness of sharing such information is still an option.
Player A asks Player B for help with their build. Player A grants Player B permission to "inspect" their gear to facilitate the coaching. Problem solved, because Player A has control over sharing and Player B is enabled to render requested assistance.
Player A joins an RTFO but doesn't appear to be performing to the expectations of Player B. Player B attempts to "inspect" Player A to affirm his bias. Player B cannot, because Player A has not voluntarily allowed the inspection. Problem solved, because Player A has retained their sense of privacy over, and Player B through PUGing RTFOs has already accepted they get what they get, not only with regard to which TFO queues up, but also whomever they are teamed up with.
Player A, B, C, D, and E all decide to team together for a particular TFO. All players share their respective builds for inspection. Player B offers some advice to Player A on how they can improve their build for the particular TFO. Player A makes the suggested changes. Alternatively, Player A refuses to share their build with the team. The team decides not to team with Player A due to not being able to ascertain whether Player A is prepared for this TFO, and recruit Player F as a substitute. Problem solved, because all players had a choice and worked together to prepare for the TFO.
In my opinion, this is the only fair and reasonable way to implement such a feature where it addresses all possible concerns. If you're advocating to just be able to inspect players on a whim and without their knowledge or permission, then I cannot support your position, because that necessitates the other players surrendering their ability to choose. And player choice should be paramount when it comes to sharing their information.
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Unfortunately, that's not true. There is at least one person trying to argue that the idea has no merit at all.
Inspect with an opt out works fine for me. I just want it because it would be far easier then people linking all their gear in chat and then thinking that's good enough to help with their build. I have no idea what their BoFF powers are, traits, anything. They can leave it off the entire time and then just turn it on when they would like to get help or share their build with others.. that's fine.
Apparently, not everyone shares/talks builds in game.. that's cool, to each their own. But many of us do, and being able to just group in the same zone and use an inspect feature would be quite helpful.
Again though, this is a big debate about nothing, if Cryptic hasn't added this in the last 10 years, I see no reason to think it would be considered today.