Would like an inspect feature.

vetteguy904

I know other MMOs have an inspect feature, where you click or right click on a toon and you can see thier outfits and equipment.
I would love to see that introduced for ground at least but for ships as well.

foxrockssocks

Outfits I'd like to see, but equipment, well, that's probably not a can of worms worth opening. Until then, ask them.

davefenestrator

The five remaining PVP players would not be happy about this.

rattler2

Right now there is no method of doing that in STO.

baddmoonrizin

Vague title. Please change for clarification. Thank you.

ichaerus1

I do not consent to anyone attempting to peep on what I have for outfits/gear/traits/skills loadout, without asking. And if such a mechanic is instituted, there had better be one implemented with a "closed door" option. Warhammer Online/Return of Reckoning has this. You can already see what outfit someone is wearing when they walk around in STO. If you're THAT curious, all you have to do is open a line of communication with the player that caught your attention.

sthe91

I do not want anyone creeping on my toon or my ship, no thanks. It would be cool if you clicked on a toon it actually told you what outfit they were wearing in case you also want to get it for your character. Though right now I wish they would fix the broken code of looking at a person whether it is yourself or someone else, you see that in the chat window. Just ask somebody what skills they are using, powers, etc in a private message but be polite about it. Thanks.

vetteguy904

even just the visuals would be fine. Galaxy class, Omega deflector visual, Terran vanity shield, Iconian warp core visual would be nice.

sthe91

vetteguy904 wrote: »

even just the visuals would be fine. Galaxy class, Omega deflector visual, Terran vanity shield, Iconian warp core visual would be nice.

I could get behind that. Otherwise, no.

doctorstegi

Not sure why people are all like oh no don't peep at my toon, considering its only the gear what would be showing and not how your skill tree looks like or your traits. It would be a good thing for not so good players and there is plenty of them around lately. But yeah it wont happen and there used to be a gateway thing back in the day where you actually could look people up who signed up for that and see what they were using. https://sto.gamepedia.com/STO_Gateway it retired in 2017.

warpangel

Making the player info screen correctly identify what ship they're in (instead of showing their shuttle half the time) would be a good start.

bobsled624

Going to show my in-game age here....

The STO Gateway used to be a really useful resource for players to see the current build on a specific character (this is my PvE toon, this is my PvP toon, etc) and it was updated in real time as you updated equipment on your ship, but the function seemed to wain in popularity and wasn't in active development meaning that as new character types, equipment and functions (T6 Starship traits, etc) were added, they weren't reflected in the Gateway display.

I know that when asked about it, the Dev Team advised that it would take a dedicated number of developers taken away from other critical tasks to keep the gateway up to date, possibly severely impacting the pace of development for new content and features (don't quote me on the specifics, because I really don't know.)

Like the foundry, I think it was a brilliant tool that was just overtaken by the pace of development and would have taken far too much remedial action to rectify that couldn't be justified at the time.

Here's hoping that Cryptic and either bring it up to date and re-launch it or create a new system or feature with similar functions, but I'm happy to see them devote the resources right now to more content and events like Kobayashi Maru and the Free T6 campaign.

theraven2378

You can inspect other players' armour and gear on Destiny 2, not sure if such a feature would be applicable in STO

wideningxgyre

Any more than what you can find out from the right click>info is too invasive.

There is no legitimate reason for one player to know what equipment you have available to another one.

saurializard

theraven2378 wrote: »

You can inspect other players' armour and gear on Destiny 2, not sure if such a feature would be applicable in STO

Heck, Warframe recently introduced a feature where players can actually SHARE their looks at will via a link.

And before that you could and can still inspect a character, too and learn about a few stats.

seaofsorrows

wideningxgyre wrote: »

Any more than what you can find out from the right click>info is too invasive.

There is no legitimate reason for one player to know what equipment you have available to another one.

Disagreed.

If you're in a queue and you notice a player is doing particularly well, being able to see what they're running can give you an idea of how you can improve your own build.

While I like the idea of an inspect option, I can see it's downsides as well.. namely 'gear shaming' which wouldn't be good for anyone.

Ultimately, while I believe an inspection system has it's merits, the potential downsides probably outweigh the gains.

peterconnorfirst

seaofsorrows wrote: »

wideningxgyre wrote: »

Any more than what you can find out from the right click>info is too invasive.

There is no legitimate reason for one player to know what equipment you have available to another one.

Disagreed.

If you're in a queue and you notice a player is doing particularly well, being able to see what they're running can give you an idea of how you can improve your own build.

While I like the idea of an inspect option, I can see it's downsides as well.. namely 'gear shaming' which wouldn't be good for anyone.

Ultimately, while I believe an inspection system has it's merits, the potential downsides probably outweigh the gains.

Yea pretty much.

The gateway had such functionality. Back in 2012 or so a troll fleet’s player used it against me to tease in chat as he realized seeing my build that I didn’t know how to handle stuff in game well. Of course he kept on sending me one PvP invite after another. Hehe, too bad he is not around anymore as I would have some fun with him nowadays.

Good part is for the learning process that we have at least CLR. It does not decrypt an entire build but hands out good information as to what others are using and to what extend it does nor does not work. Of course like with everything in life what we make of it is what counts. If we put it to good use, its great. If we put to bad use its on us not CLR.

darkbladejk

World of Warcraft has had this feature pretty much since day one. As to why you might want to see someone's gear there's several in fact. You may like a visual they're using, or may not recognize a weapon they're using or such. If someone asks for help you can simply right click and inspect them and see exactly what they're running without the need for 3rd party apps like Discord calls and other similar things. In WoW when you're planning a raid, it lets you see if potential group members are indeed up to snuff or if they're just trying to pull one over on you expecting to be carried. In a game like that if everyone isn't pulling their weight, it can mean the difference between success and failure of up to 9+ other people. To put it in STO terms, if a queue were to demand that you have at least mk xii very rare in every slot, but you only have mk xii greens, then you are not yet ready for that queue and don't need to be in there yet, because your gear is not yet up to par with the basic minimum requirement.

In WoW even with that feature, gear shaming was at a minimum. People abuse every feature if they find a way to do it and admittedly there would be some that would try to gear shame. Thing is though they do that now even without an inspect feature, though they typically use the DPS parses to do it instead of gear shaming. As for gateway, it was never up to date in real time the way an inspect feature would be and often glitched out if it didn't recognize some of the newer gear. No feature is going to be entirely abuse free. In this instance so what if someone is able to look at my build, it has literally zero effect on my gameplay. It's not a business trade secret so it doesn't bother me. There's only so many combinations of items you can carry out and there is no 100% unique build in game.

Overall there are legitimate reasons to want such a feature and I've never really found any of the arguments against it, save one, to be that compelling. To each their own however.

ichaerus1

darkbladejk wrote: »

World of Warcraft has had this feature pretty much since day one. As to why you might want to see someone's gear there's several in fact. You may like a visual they're using, or may not recognize a weapon they're using or such. If someone asks for help you can simply right click and inspect them and see exactly what they're running without the need for 3rd party apps like Discord calls and other similar things. In WoW when you're planning a raid, it lets you see if potential group members are indeed up to snuff or if they're just trying to pull one over on you expecting to be carried. In a game like that if everyone isn't pulling their weight, it can mean the difference between success and failure of up to 9+ other people. To put it in STO terms, if a queue were to demand that you have at least mk xii very rare in every slot, but you only have mk xii greens, then you are not yet ready for that queue and don't need to be in there yet, because your gear is not yet up to par with the basic minimum requirement.

In WoW even with that feature, gear shaming was at a minimum. People abuse every feature if they find a way to do it and admittedly there would be some that would try to gear shame. Thing is though they do that now even without an inspect feature, though they typically use the DPS parses to do it instead of gear shaming. As for gateway, it was never up to date in real time the way an inspect feature would be and often glitched out if it didn't recognize some of the newer gear. No feature is going to be entirely abuse free. In this instance so what if someone is able to look at my build, it has literally zero effect on my gameplay. It's not a business trade secret so it doesn't bother me. There's only so many combinations of items you can carry out and there is no 100% unique build in game.

Overall there are legitimate reasons to want such a feature and I've never really found any of the arguments against it, save one, to be that compelling. To each their own however.

Here's a compelling reason. Right to privacy with my gear, outfit slots, or trait loadout. Here's another. Roleplaying reasons. Here's a third. Opportunity to communicate w/ the player. If someone wants to know, they're free to message me and ask about my look, or what I'm carrying. If I'm not busy, I'll tell the player. It's almost as if opening lines of communication via messaging is an alien concept nowadays.

It's why I like Warhammer Online/Return of Reckoning's option to disable the inspecting for players. There's plenty of times where I see something that catches my eye, and so I ask that player politely if they have a moment to talk to me about their gear or there look. Same with Dungeon&Dragons Online.

"Hey, that armor you're wearing really looks great! Those skulls on your shoulders are awesome! That dismembered hand trophy placement on the front of your belt near the middle is...interesting, yet funny. Would you happen to spare a few moments to regale the tales of how you acquired such things?"

It's really not that to type out. And what's the worst that they can say? No? You might even get a story out of it, or tips on how to get it as well. You might even make a friend out of it.

darkbladejk

ichaerus1 wrote: »

Here's a compelling reason. Right to privacy with my gear, outfit slots, or trait loadout. Here's another. Roleplaying reasons. Here's a third. Opportunity to communicate w/ the player. If someone wants to know, they're free to message me and ask about my look, or what I'm carrying. If I'm not busy, I'll tell the player. It's almost as if opening lines of communication via messaging is an alien concept nowadays.

It's why I like Warhammer Online/Return of Reckoning's option to disable the inspecting for players. There's plenty of times where I see something that catches my eye, and so I ask that player politely if they have a moment to talk to me about their gear or there look. Same with Dungeon&Dragons Online.

"Hey, that armor you're wearing really looks great! Those skulls on your shoulders are awesome! That dismembered hand trophy placement on the front of your belt near the middle is...interesting, yet funny. Would you happen to spare a few moments to regale the tales of how you acquired such things?"

It's really not that to type out. And what's the worst that they can say? No? You might even get a story out of it, or tips on how to get it as well. You might even make a friend out of it.

First off, you don't lose the ability to talk to the other people just because a game has or may implement an inspect feature. You still retain the option to send them a tell and talk to them about it. If you choose not to whisper them that's a conscious decision you as a player have made and has nothing to do with an inspect function. Some of those same conversations can be had with and spurred on by the inspect function as well. If a player notices you did alot of damage they can inspect you and if they see a trait they don't recognize, they can ask you where you got it as just one example.

Outfit slots: No one is asking to have full access to your entire outfit roster. On this point as well there are so many custom outfits that can be created using bits and pieces of other outfits. The ability to ask folks is still present with or without an inspect, and even then folks can see your currently equipped outfit anyways so this is really not that compelling to me.

Privacy with gear: Have you ever gone into a run where someone in the run or even yourself has used a dps parser? If so then they already have enough information to decipher your build from that parser data. I find it ironic that you talk about opening lines of communication with other players and hint at wanting to see it more, yet at the same time want to keep everything to yourself. There are times and places in some of the games you've mentioned where its imperative to know what your teammates are bringing to the table. In WoW as just one example, if I am forming a raid group, I need to know that the people I'm bringing to the group are up to snuff and aren't just expecting to be carried. In random runs or the Raid Finder if there is an issue with someone under-performing this helps the group eliminate possible issues with gear as a possibility. If they're a melee class but cheesed all caster gear to get into the run, then they can be vote kicked for cheesing the system or given time to put on their proper gear. In STO we don't have a vote kick system so you don't have to worry about someone kicking you if your gear is insufficient. Worst case scenario you don't get brought along for some pre-made games.

Bearing that in mind, how does someone knowing your build effect you in the game today? What negative effects would you experience? You lose nothing by someone knowing what you're running, nor do you gain anything by trying to hide it like a Ferengi trying to protect his latinum. It's not some super huge business secret and the information can be acquired easily enough if someone runs a dps parser while you're in the run. For that matter I can figure out what alot of your build is simply by watching your buff bar and reading the icons. Ultimately you give alot of your build information out whether you realize it or not each time you step into a run. If someone knows the sounds and looks of your weapons, they can generally figure out what you're running by that alone. Otherwise like most everything else, it will tell on a parser or can be gleaned by watching your buff bar. You're never as completely "secret" as you think you are in terms of build information.

Finally, if someone sees you doing alot of damage or doing well, they're going to want to at least know what you're running. Instead of looking at it like "oh no they're invading my privacy" look at it as you helping someone else out to improve. For all you know as well, they may even give you an idea to improve. Honestly the whole privacy with gear argument doesn't hold any weight in my book in a video game. Otherwise to apply that logic consistently, I would need permission to look at parse data I collected using my tool, and I certainly don't need that.

Roleplaying Reasons: Again, how does this effect you in the positive or negative unless it's somehow related to an RP session? Even then if that's the case, that's a problem for you and the DM of your session and not a Cryptic problem.

jennycolvin

I wouldn't be opposed to an inspect feature. It can be quite helpful to new players, some of which can be quite shy or simply wants to avoid any toxic response (I mean, just look at ESD chat).
It can also be useful to give pointers to people if they ask without the need for them to list every single piece of equipment they're using.
And even though both traits and skill points can be quite useful to know, there's no need to have an inspection feature for those, too.

All in all, it could be good and I see absolutely nothing wrong with it.​​

ichaerus1

darkbladejk wrote: »

ichaerus1 wrote: »

Here's a compelling reason. Right to privacy with my gear, outfit slots, or trait loadout. Here's another. Roleplaying reasons. Here's a third. Opportunity to communicate w/ the player. If someone wants to know, they're free to message me and ask about my look, or what I'm carrying. If I'm not busy, I'll tell the player. It's almost as if opening lines of communication via messaging is an alien concept nowadays.

It's why I like Warhammer Online/Return of Reckoning's option to disable the inspecting for players. There's plenty of times where I see something that catches my eye, and so I ask that player politely if they have a moment to talk to me about their gear or there look. Same with Dungeon&Dragons Online.

"Hey, that armor you're wearing really looks great! Those skulls on your shoulders are awesome! That dismembered hand trophy placement on the front of your belt near the middle is...interesting, yet funny. Would you happen to spare a few moments to regale the tales of how you acquired such things?"

It's really not that to type out. And what's the worst that they can say? No? You might even get a story out of it, or tips on how to get it as well. You might even make a friend out of it.

First off, you don't lose the ability to talk to the other people just because a game has or may implement an inspect feature. You still retain the option to send them a tell and talk to them about it. If you choose not to whisper them that's a conscious decision you as a player have made and has nothing to do with an inspect function. Some of those same conversations can be had with and spurred on by the inspect function as well. If a player notices you did alot of damage they can inspect you and if they see a trait they don't recognize, they can ask you where you got it as just one example.

Outfit slots: No one is asking to have full access to your entire outfit roster. On this point as well there are so many custom outfits that can be created using bits and pieces of other outfits. The ability to ask folks is still present with or without an inspect, and even then folks can see your currently equipped outfit anyways so this is really not that compelling to me.

Privacy with gear: Have you ever gone into a run where someone in the run or even yourself has used a dps parser? If so then they already have enough information to decipher your build from that parser data. I find it ironic that you talk about opening lines of communication with other players and hint at wanting to see it more, yet at the same time want to keep everything to yourself. There are times and places in some of the games you've mentioned where its imperative to know what your teammates are bringing to the table. In WoW as just one example, if I am forming a raid group, I need to know that the people I'm bringing to the group are up to snuff and aren't just expecting to be carried. In random runs or the Raid Finder if there is an issue with someone under-performing this helps the group eliminate possible issues with gear as a possibility. If they're a melee class but cheesed all caster gear to get into the run, then they can be vote kicked for cheesing the system or given time to put on their proper gear. In STO we don't have a vote kick system so you don't have to worry about someone kicking you if your gear is insufficient. Worst case scenario you don't get brought along for some pre-made games.


Bearing that in mind, how does someone knowing your build effect you in the game today? What negative effects would you experience? You lose nothing by someone knowing what you're running, nor do you gain anything by trying to hide it like a Ferengi trying to protect his latinum. It's not some super huge business secret and the information can be acquired easily enough if someone runs a dps parser while you're in the run. For that matter I can figure out what alot of your build is simply by watching your buff bar and reading the icons. Ultimately you give alot of your build information out whether you realize it or not each time you step into a run. If someone knows the sounds and looks of your weapons, they can generally figure out what you're running by that alone. Otherwise like most everything else, it will tell on a parser or can be gleaned by watching your buff bar. You're never as completely "secret" as you think you are in terms of build information.

Finally, if someone sees you doing alot of damage or doing well, they're going to want to at least know what you're running. Instead of looking at it like "oh no they're invading my privacy" look at it as you helping someone else out to improve. For all you know as well, they may even give you an idea to improve. Honestly the whole privacy with gear argument doesn't hold any weight in my book in a video game. Otherwise to apply that logic consistently, I would need permission to look at parse data I collected using my tool, and I certainly don't need that.

Roleplaying Reasons: Again, how does this effect you in the positive or negative unless it's somehow related to an RP session? Even then if that's the case, that's a problem for you and the DM of your session and not a Cryptic problem.

Ok, for the first part. I'm saying that I do not want an inspect function. If one is to be implemented, an option to deny it should be instituted as well. Just as I don't let people peep on me in the shower to see what's under the hood unless I welcome them in. Do you let strangers run up and pop the hood on your car without asking? No? It's the same principle if not same scale. Is option or desire to be private with personal effects to an extent to be verboten in this day and age?

To the second part: It appears, going by your statement, that @foxrockssocks is a nobody, because this player specifically asked for outfit scanning. Good job thinking of the player there, calling him or her a nobody. When I read his or her statement, I saw the request wanting to delve into another player's wardrobe. I don't agree with wanting an inspect outfits option like the player does, but I wouldn't call him or her a nobody. My characters' wardrobes have outfits that aren't anyone's business unless I bring them out, and if I do, they're usually for specific characters or reasons. Roleplaying reasons usually.

To the third part: Yes I have. I've done my time in WoW, and various MMOs over the decades. I currently play Warhammer Online and DDO. I've played with DPS parsers in multiple MMOs, or MMOs that use the addons. I've done the raids, I've led raids. I've used the addons, to monitor myself, not other people. I also know that there's two types of DPS in a game like WoW. Sustained, and burst. I've also seen the paladins in druid or priest gear that have main-healed on raids. And the warriors in leather armor crit builds work. Or the Windfury 2hnd shaman burst builds in crit leather work. So get off your high horse with that "melee cheesing" drek. I want to keep things private until someone approaches me, and if I feel like it, I'll divulge information about what I've gotten, or where I've gotten it. If not, that's my choice as well. To turn your question on you, how does my privacy affect your gameplay today? Are you stumbling because you have to guess what a person's traits or loadout is? Are you burning time trying to snoop on someone's buffbar to see if they're rocking a metabuild? Yes, I've been run down before for my gear or my build because someone's scanned me, when I was less experienced or knowledgeable than I am now. In WoW, and in this game. And I'm glad that the Gateway snooper function is gone. I'm okay with mystery. If you're curious, walk up and pop the question. But I guess manners and politeness being taught as you were growing up, were in short supply. Things like asking permission, or not mad-dogging someone. In case you missed it when you were thinking of the Ferengi remark, I said if I feel like it, I'll take the time to talk with the Curious George that asks me what I'm carrying. I do it to this day, when I'm in the mood, or not occupied with something/someone else.

For the roleplaying reasons, it's called not wanting to deal with the risk of someone metagaming or injecting player knowledge into character knowledge. Because that sort of thing will disrupt an RP session real fast. Regardless of whether there's a DM or not(I don't play with DMs for my roleplaying sessions, nor do I DM in an MMORPG. I play with players.) I never turned my character sheet over to another player to ratphuck through like it was a case of MREs without a reason I felt comfortable with. Why should I have it done for me here without my greenlight?

Only one person values what holds weight in your book with privacy in a video game. That's you. Your book means less to me than a pile of lawn fudge. And I'm okay with that. Just as I'm okay with volunteering certain information when I feel like it. Until then, you're damn right I'm going to keep my loadouts and such to myself like the Ferengi.

davefenestrator wrote: »

The five remaining PVP players would not be happy about this.

At least one more than just the 5 remaining PvP players would not be happy about this if it was installed, if there's no means to self-disable the option.

jennycolvin

Oh my god, @ichaerus1 take a chill pill! Why is it that every discussion must turn into a thinly veiled insult exchange?
You don't want the inspect feature? Cool, others would be glad to have it. That's no reason to go off like this, RNJesus.​​

poddli

I'm not fussed either way about an inspect feature. In some MMOs it's useful. In STO there are so many other variables other than gear it quickly becomes pointless.

What I would like is seeing a costume I REALLY like and being able to do some right click shenanigans to save the costume details to my own Tailor list.

where2r1

How many acks is this going to take?
Why add reasons for the server to interact with MORE player requests.
I need it to respond to my powers tray... not "what are you wearing today". LOL!

@ichaerus1 Listen to your Klingon Granny.... Not worth it.
Think about it... It is not going to change their minds on TRIBBLE (about you... or about the game),
So let it be.

theraven2378

While I can see the pros (helping other players grow as an example), it also has cons (gear shaming).

jennycolvin

theraven2378 wrote: »

While I can see the pros (helping other players grow as an example), it also has cons (gear shaming).

I see your point, but let's be real: it's happening anyway. Maybe not because of gear, but it's still happening. A queue goes south or an optional is missed and all bets are off, unfortunately ​​

theraven2378

jennycolvin wrote: »

theraven2378 wrote: »

While I can see the pros (helping other players grow as an example), it also has cons (gear shaming).

I see your point, but let's be real: it's happening anyway. Maybe not because of gear, but it's still happening. A queue goes south or an optional is missed and all bets are off, unfortunately ​​

All too true

vetteguy904

theraven2378 wrote: »

While I can see the pros (helping other players grow as an example), it also has cons (gear shaming).

Gear shaming? that's the argument? in that case Cryptic should ban app DPS parsers. the few times I ran TFOs back where I was new some jackhole with a parser would inevitably spout off in shat how lame my DPS was, and that i should never play the game again, yada yada. and it was not the one player it seemed like EVERY time I ran with a pug I got the same treatment. that is why I NEVER played TFOs of any kind until the Disco ones, and I hate that the universal endeavours are invariably "play the TRIBBLE TFO" so yeah, you are so right i am completely wrong about checking out how someone is equipped or what uniform combo they have.. and Parsers should be banned.. on the basis of gear shaming.

on the other hand, maybe there are players out there who have tailor hacks and an inspect would put them at risk of being outed.

darkbladejk

ichaerus1 wrote: »

Ok, for the first part. I'm saying that I do not want an inspect function. If one is to be implemented, an option to deny it should be instituted as well. Just as I don't let people peep on me in the shower to see what's under the hood unless I welcome them in. Do you let strangers run up and pop the hood on your car without asking? No? It's the same principle if not same scale. Is option or desire to be private with personal effects to an extent to be verboten in this day and age?

First off, dial back the attitude, there's no need for it. I have not attacked you or anyone else here. You're welcome to your opinions on the matter and so am I. If you disagree, as you clearly do, then attempt to counter my points and logic. Attacking me will not help you.

If this were real life we're speaking of, or said feature being proposed was somehow able to expose your personal information such as your email address, I would be agreeing with you 100%. However we're not speaking about real life and someone inspecting your stats or your gear in a video game is NOT the same thing as someone trying to creep around your house in real life. That's a false equivalency. Otherwise by that logic, if someone blows up my car in a game like GTA, that would give me the right to blow up their car in real life in retaliation and it doesn't work like that, not in the slightest. I get the desire for privacy, however I'm going to be blunt and ask if you're that private of an individual why play games like MMOs? I'm going to elaborate on this further down below, but when you play with other people in STO, whether they're running a parser or not, you're giving them enough information just through playing the mission that they can discern large portions of your build if not all of it. By joining a group and playing a mission you've already consented to them seeing your buff bars and so on.

ichaerus1 wrote: »

To the second part: It appears, going by your statement, that @foxrockssocks is a nobody, because this player specifically asked for outfit scanning. Good job thinking of the player there, calling him or her a nobody. When I read his or her statement, I saw the request wanting to delve into another player's wardrobe. I don't agree with wanting an inspect outfits option like the player does, but I wouldn't call him or her a nobody. My characters' wardrobes have outfits that aren't anyone's business unless I bring them out, and if I do, they're usually for specific characters or reasons. Roleplaying reasons usually.

From my reading of their statement I didn't see them asking for the ability to scan your entire roster, simply your current active outfit, thus seeing outfits. If they wish to correct me and say they meant the entire roster then I will be glad to admit I was wrong. Until then really neither of us knows for sure and both have made assumptions.

ichaerus1 wrote: »

To the third part: Yes I have. I've done my time in WoW, and various MMOs over the decades. I currently play Warhammer Online and DDO. I've played with DPS parsers in multiple MMOs, or MMOs that use the addons. I've done the raids, I've led raids. I've used the addons, to monitor myself, not other people. I also know that there's two types of DPS in a game like WoW. Sustained, and burst. I've also seen the paladins in druid or priest gear that have main-healed on raids. And the warriors in leather armor crit builds work. Or the Windfury 2hnd shaman burst builds in crit leather work. So get off your high horse with that "melee cheesing" drek. I want to keep things private until someone approaches me, and if I feel like it, I'll divulge information about what I've gotten, or where I've gotten it. If not, that's my choice as well. To turn your question on you, how does my privacy affect your gameplay today? Are you stumbling because you have to guess what a person's traits or loadout is? Are you burning time trying to snoop on someone's buffbar to see if they're rocking a metabuild? Yes, I've been run down before for my gear or my build because someone's scanned me, when I was less experienced or knowledgeable than I am now. In WoW, and in this game. And I'm glad that the Gateway snooper function is gone. I'm okay with mystery. If you're curious, walk up and pop the question. But I guess manners and politeness being taught as you were growing up, were in short supply. Things like asking permission, or not mad-dogging someone. In case you missed it when you were thinking of the Ferengi remark, I said if I feel like it, I'll take the time to talk with the Curious George that asks me what I'm carrying. I do it to this day, when I'm in the mood, or not occupied with something/someone else.

Gonna pretend for the moment you didn't use that high horse insult.

With that said there's a few differences you need to understand. First off it was never intended that warriors be allowed to wear leather crit gear and succeed, same with your paladin example, or prolly paladins that went half prot half holy. Those things can be viewed as exploits as it was never intended to happen. As for melee cheesing caster gear I used that example because I ran into a few guys, namely paladins who cheesed caster to up their gearscore to get into raids they were not ready for. I did not name specific individuals as that would be naming and shaming which is against forum rules.

With that said the further reason I don't buy the privacy argument is virtually all the information needed to discern your build or most of it is publicly available via your buff bars and the combat log that STO itself records. It makes no difference whether someone reads the log file manually or uses the 3rd party parser to do it, all of the information is there. By going into a TFO where someone is recording the data you're already giving them the data they need whether you realize it or not. You're also giving people the ability to see your buff bars whether you realize this or not. By doing content with other people you are essentially consenting to give some of this information away just by the sheer nature of the TFO itself. Your privacy isn't being invaded because the information is publicly available stuff that you give away anyways. They may not know the exact build, but they can know the key components of it. At that the jig is up. There's nothing snooping about it since it's information that's 85% visible already. We're not talking real life information here, but stuff in a video game.

As for gear shaming, you'll never completely eliminate it, and even with an inspect function in WoW, that's at a minimum and always has been. In STO you would simply block them and move on.

In regards to how someone's gear or lack of can effect me here's just a couple examples of how. Let's suppose I join a Battle of Korfez which requires a fair amount of damage to be able to clear it from everyone in group. I don't know what the actual number is but lets say 50k minimum from each person to keep it simple. if 4 people in there are only dealing the 50k minimum and that 5th guy is only dealing 30k, then that 5th is not ready to be in there and has guaranteed the run is going to fail because they're not pulling their weight. At some point they will be ready, but that time isn't now. So yes your build and gear can have an impact on the game of other people. If I am forming a group of people to take on a specific kind of content, I have a right to know the people I am inviting are up to the task, just as they would have a right to know the same about me. The same was true in WoW. Unlike WoW, STO has no kick function so you can't be kicked. The only time 99% of people will say anything is if you didn't carry your weight in the run in the kind of scenario I outlined above. For that matter I don't care if you're running all mk xii greens as long as you're able to do your part, and I guarantee you most folks won't care either. For the 0.00000000000000000000000000000001% of people who will and that will talk TRIBBLE no matter what, you can block them or report them if it gets serious enough. Also from time to time people have traits that can effect their teammates. If that trait is effecting my performance in the positive or the negative, then I want to know what that trait is and I have a right to know.

In regards to my own performance I can run over 100k dps as a tank with the ability to go higher if I focused more on dps, and I can rake in 65%+ of the threat. Point being I know where I'm at and I have nothing to prove to anyone.

Overall I see no reason to try to hide something when most of the information needed to find it out is already 90% visible just from a combat log. If they know my build they know my build, big whoop. Maybe they'll be able to glean something from it to improve their own performance, or may notice something I'm missing to improve my performance. It's kind of like a guy trying to say he doesn't have a new car even though I can hear it when he starts it up and revs the engine, I may see him out washing it, see him driving it, hear if he honks he horn, I pass him on the street going home, or see it parked in his driveway. At that point why hide the fact you have a new car? It's not a perfect analogy but you get the point. I just don't see the point in trying to hide something that's already 85% visible anyways.

ichaerus1 wrote: »

For the roleplaying reasons, it's called not wanting to deal with the risk of someone metagaming or injecting player knowledge into character knowledge. Because that sort of thing will disrupt an RP session real fast. Regardless of whether there's a DM or not(I don't play with DMs for my roleplaying sessions, nor do I DM in an MMORPG. I play with players.) I never turned my character sheet over to another player to ratphuck through like it was a case of MREs without a reason I felt comfortable with. Why should I have it done for me here without my greenlight?

Finally once again on the RP front that's an issue to sort out within your own group and is a player problem, not a Cryptic problem. Whatever rules you guys set for your RP group is up to you, and would still be up to you as to how you enforce them. To be perfectly blunt I don't see one small group's dislike of a potential feature as enough reason not to include it.

tobiashirt

An example here about how much of a build you can deduce from a parse...

Some while back, I ran alongside one of the MW flight deck cruisers that was obliterating things so fast I was hurrying to catch up. Looking at the parse told me the weapon type they were using as well as all but one of the bridge officer powers, and the ranks of powers.

Several consoles showed up too, so I could see colony tac consoles, the ship's own native console, the lukari console, and approaching agony.

Buff bar told me that the 2-part nukara set was in use, as well as competitive rep engines and 2-part counter-command set and a kentari officer.

The healing portion of the log also told me at least one of their doffs, namely agent nerul.

Assuming that, since I didn't see the bio- molecular turret, the CC set was completed as console/console that tells me 2 consoles. There wasn't enough healing to suggest more than 2 colony consoles, so we assume the rest are spire.
Seeing the t6 NX console implies the dynamic power redistributor, and seeing the gamma rep Omni implies that console from the set.

Buff bar also showed duellist's fervor/inspirational leader/context is for kings/repair crews/anchored plus the buffs from the CrtH and CrtD EWOs and the cold-hearted buff.

Thus, I know all the weapons/space gear/consoles/boff powers, all the doffs (assuming 3x Technician to go with cold-hearted), a majority of the personal traits and all the ship traits. Probably 90-95% of the build, all from publicly available data.

I would love to have an inspect feature, if only so I don't have to spend half an hour each time someone asks writing it up in the Skill Planner. That way, I can field questions about why I use something rather than what I'm using. Gear shaming happens regardless, mostly via the proxy of dps shaming, so it doesn't feel like inspections would change much.

I'm fond of the inspection feature in WoW, seeing as I only jumped in 2 weeks ago, have 1 toon at 27, and want to avoid asking "how do I mine for fish?" type questions in zone chat.