For me, variety would've meant: "here, you have 7 pieces of content you can run to get the daily progression goals... but look! You need to run only one". That would've been way better, because you could've run something different every day while, at the same time, not making it longer.
Why pretend that's a variety issue when all you actually mean is it's too long?
I'll be very curious to see the requirements for Q's Wonderland. I personally do the run for the ship in under 2 minutes. I will be quite displeased if this time is greatly increased.
Me too. Though in my case I would totally love it if they replaced the boring run-around-the-block login bonus with actual gameplay.
@warpangel I'd thank you not to put words in my mouth. You quoted me yourself but, as usual, you only read what you want to read and then interpret the rest as you see fit to spint the whole thing in you favour, making us all look as nothing more than useless whiners.
So, since apparently it was not clear enough the first time:
For me, variety would've meant: "here, you have 7 pieces of content you can run to get the daily progression goals... but look! You need to run only one". That would've been way better, because you could've run something different every day while, at the same time, not making it longer.
Would that mean not taking as long as it currently takes? Sure thing. Does time spent = variety? Nope. Did I ever implied it did? Again, nope.
But do go on, please. I'm gonna make some popcorn to eat while I read whatever else you think of next.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
For me, variety would've meant: "here, you have 7 pieces of content you can run to get the daily progression goals... but look! You need to run only one". That would've been way better, because you could've run something different every day while, at the same time, not making it longer.
Would that mean not taking as long as it currently takes? Sure thing. Does time spent = variety? Nope. Did I ever implied it did? Again, nope.
But do go on, please. I'm gonna make some popcorn to eat while I read whatever else you think of next.
If you read any of what I wrote, you wouldn't be pretending I didn't just say the exact same thing.
it is not a set number of waves - i have had the defeat remaining enemies objective come up while i was still fighting the SECOND wave failboating mastery traits, sometimes even the first
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
> @shadowfang240 said: > the price of zen is currently 430 - so to get 3k (the standard price for a T6 ship), you would need 1,290,000...even if zen hits 500, you would still only need 1,500,000 > > those uniforms are DISGUSTINGLY overpriced and should NEVER be used in any calculations
No, but it gives a window into Cryptic's mentality.
I got one Epic Token during the very first Phoenix Prize Pack Event and traded it for two URs and got a Bulwark and JHAS as I have all the other T5s and T6s. I have not laid mine eyes on one since.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Sentinel is the only one that doesn't have a hidden timer. You get a wave before alpha, one after beta, one after gamma, one attacking alpha after delta than attack delta and than attack gamma with the cruiser and you are done. I have personally done more than 2 waves at the end in EVERYTHING ELSE with ninth reaching a record 38 waves...or more than what the klingons fielded in a major encounter of war in your example and half of what the federation did for the same encounter (and there are lots of other examples where those numbers would dwarf the number of ships involved). For ONE STUPID FERANGI. The fact that you failboated so bad that you only got 2 waves in the time I did 38...yeah not sure what you tell you. But there is a hidden timer. It is confirmed. On everything but sentinel. Those needs to go away...no seriously. The fact that you think sentinel has a hidden timer...yeah...what you think matters not one bit when you are that clueless.
Game developers will never design general game content for the ultra DPS crowd because they know that only a very small minority of people ever try to reach that point in the first place, thus meaning any content made for them is ultimately wasted money as the majority of players will never play it. I see the same complaints on everything from WoW to Guild Wars 2, and it never changes because its never a viable option for the devs. At most, devs will occasionally throw said crowd a new high end raid or something, but that is what the 33 elite TFOs in STO are for.
Not to mention, no game company will make it to where you can just DPS your way through everything in less then a minute because that completely removes the need to actually do something for a reward, and, generally speaking, most situations wouldn't, and thus shouldn't, be solvable through sheer DPS. In fact, if you do more DPS you should be made to fight more NPCs because the point of combat isn't to DEEPS, its so be able to survive the encounter. If you can massively out DPS someone it makes sense you should be made to fight significantly more enemies to balance it out, and, again, most games tend to do this for this very reason. Your extra work is rewarded with extra drops you can either upgrade/re-engineer for your ship, salvage for crafting materials to make new/better items, or just sell for more EC to buy those ultra stupid expensive items on the exchange.
You set yourself up for failure and frustration by DPS grinding in a game where it isn't necessary, or even advised, and thus reached a situation where your DPS isn't even remotely necessary for the game content, and thus the game isn't designed for it, so now you feel like your DPS isn't be rewarded when it was never going to be since the point of games isn't the DEEPS, its about playing the game.
I also never said Sentinel had a time gate/hidden timer, I said it took longer because I generally have to fight more enemies, and spend more time flying around. So that is just a plain straw man. I don't understand why you feel the need to constantly misrepresent what I actually said.
I'm sorry...did you mistaken me for Sea or Peter? I do JACK compared to those two because i don't actually chase DPS. Hell, I am using a tact/sci hybrids with mixed weapons in escort style ships which is so off meta that you are gonna find me in another universe from people who actually DPS chase. All I did was make something not completely stupid. I mean there is plenty of stupid from a DPS point of view...but it isn't completely so is all. Oh and my skill at games is so bad, I failed the new spiderman game's TUTORIAL on easy mode. So if you think I am some wiz bang skill player...yeah nope. This is all doing something that anyone can easily replicate and anyone who isn't completely physically crippled should be able to do. Honestly, the fact that I can cake walk elite in this game means something is terribly wrong. I am not Peter or Sea. Hell I do worse than Pottsey most of the time. I suck at games. If i find your game too easy (remember FAILED TUTORIAL)...on the hardest mode...you may just have a problem.
So to quote since you left this off to try and hide...
it is not a set number of waves - i have had the defeat remaining enemies objective come up while i was still fighting the SECOND wave failboating mastery traits, sometimes even the first
it's a hidden timer, plain and simple
Some of the waves are only two waves long. I've seen YouTube videos of people doing Rescue and Search, and they have the same number of waves I do when doing it, despite killing them much faster then I do.
Something like Sentinel may be different, since its more focused on just "kill enemies" with little in the way of any other action, but typically speaking, the patrols seem to be wave based, with a limited number of waves per section, and you can even kill waves so fast that you kill them before the next wave will spawn.
You claim the patrols are wave based. Than you say sentinel may be different. When we are talking about hidden timers vs waves. That LITERALLY MEANS YOU THINK SENTINEL MAY BE HAS A HIDDEN TIMER. Not what you back tracked into. Also if sentinel takes you longer than the hidden timer mission, your earlier claim of it takes 30 min tops is utterly FALSE. Wanna keep piling on the lies? You realize this is stupid obvious right? There is no straw man here. There is you walking back when you get caught in a lie...again. Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?
Oh and little more than killing for sentinel you say. Let's take rescue and search. You kill a group of mooks. You than kill another mob. Than you interact with a ship and than another ship and than a rift. Than you kills an endless wave of mooks until the end. Which for me is in the 8-12 waves range depending on how often I get tagged with viral impulse. That is 3 interacts and 10-14 groups murdered. Sentinel has 4 sats for 4 interacts with only a 6 group limit on the genocide you can commit. One of these has less interacts than the other and more murder as well. It ain't sentinel. Ninth is even worse. You have a grand total of one interact to drag Madran to jail. You have one wave when he decloaks. two for the engine failure and drag him back phase. And than endless wave of murder. This one I average around 25 waves. So 1 interact and 28 waves of ships crew murder hoboed. Yeah that seems WAY more killy than sentinel to me. With less other stuff to boot.
So once again...sentinel with set number of mobs to kill with other stuff to do...good. EVERY OTHER NEW PATROLS with hidden time gates where you can kill entire an fleet worth of ships if you have a none completely moronic ship...bad.
Cold, you're just shouting into a vacuum sir.
Everything you said was correct, but that won't stop the argument. I think we all know that.
Uhm, no?
Those are nice screenshots, I give you that, but they don't say anywhere what you've been doing while in game.
If you want to prove something, then give solid proof. 'Cause these screenshots ain't proof of anything more than the total time you've been in game.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
“*edit*
For anyone who doubts the veracity of how long it takes me to complete the patrols””
I just don’t see how that proves anything. Just because you can do them that fast it doesn’t mean that’s the average time or that everyone else has the same experience. For me Sentinels is in the middle for time taken to complete. While Briars is slower then doing 2 or 3 other patrols. In fact, I can do Sentinels on Elite faster than I can do Briars on Normal.
The other patrols still have time gates and time gates are very frustrating and not fun to play. Sentinels even if it takes longer which it does not always is way more fun because it doesn’t have silly time gate. Time Gates are always bad they are what ruined the Mirror event, the CE revamp and others. I don’t mind the time Sentinels takes because it’s fun. Sitting that watching/waiting for time gates to go by is bad.
EDIT: One core problem is time gates take away the feeling of your actions having any meaningful impact. In Sentinels I can boost my damage, I can change my turn rate, change my speed, you can play badly, you can play really well and more all of which impact the mission and how long it takes making your actions feel meaningfull. In a time gate nothing you do matters you can go AFK and alt tab onto the internet, you can play badly, really well yet nothing has an impact meaning you lose that feeling of meaningful impact while doing the mission.
“Because THAT is the game we had 1.5-2 years ago. And if THAT is the kind of game you want to play, well, good for you, but I'm glad no game I can think of thinks that's good game design.” )”
No that is the game we have now. That’s just how the current game feels to me today. In the past the game had challenge, a feeling of accomplishment, a feeling of reward. That has been stripped away and replaced with auto win, auto handout over streamlined systems that are less fun with no feeling of accomplishment or reward. That is not good game design for long term retention. That it was you do for short term quick fix players.
“They made it to where you can play the TFOs you want, instead of being stuck in…”)”
You know that is not 100% true so why do you keep spreading that lie? I can no longer play the TFOs I want via the queue system and am now more limited and stuck in less playable TFO’s that I like to play. I all but stopped using the queue system because I can no longer get the TFOs that I used to play daily to start. All because of a silly UI change that could be undone leaving us with the best of both worlds. Please stop pretending everyone benefited from that change. While some benefited others lost out. I still say that UI change has done more harm then good. Leave Randoms how it is but undo the UI change even if its only for Elites. Then we all benefit. Best of both worlds.
“They have incentivized people to go do more of the game's end-game content, making those areas more populated, and thus more playable(personal endeavors)”
What are you talking about they all but killed off end game content destroying the end game content population. Ground Simulations as one example the population was all but wiped out after a patch change it. Elites all but killed off apart from a few small private groups, Raids removed from game (old style space+ground combined), the amazing NWS was removed and revamped into a worse vision that was no good as end game content. Star Trek Online has a major problem right now with lack of end game content being in the worst state it’s ever been. As much as I love Endeavours they have done nothing for the real end game content.
“They made it quicker. and easier. to find, and get to, patrols, giving you more ways to level ship mastery besides Argala(patrol update)”
Accept for levelling up mastery is now less fun and in a worst state then it was and it looks to take much longer as well. They also removed the fun and usefulness of repeating a set map with different equipment to see how different setups perform. There is no suitable replacement for that. Quicker. and easier is not better, in fact I find it worse. Giving us more but worse ways to level up is not an improvement.
“but their data shows more people are playing more TFOs then before,” .
How much of that data is real or marketing twisting the facts. Showing the first 3 or 6 months of data since the feature got added and I bet you get a completely different picture over showing just the past 3 or 6 months. For all we know in the past 3 or 6 months a lower ratio of the player base take part in TFO’s but because they add the data in from 9 to 12 months ago it looks like an increase. I would like to see the data after the initial spike has tempered off. Is there really an increase of people doing TFO right now in the past 1 month? For me it doesn’t feel like it. I have found public TFO’s very hard to get started. (even advanced ones). See my quote below. The ratio of the player base taking part in TFO's also matters for a true picture.
“For all of your constant claims that Cryptic has done all of these "terrible" things(most of which go unlisted because I doubt you really have that many) more people are playing the game, and more often, then before according to Cryptic's own data.”
More often is debatable they have just changed what they are doing and they are leaving after less then a year now. What was the average retention 8 or 9 months before they quit? Or is it now lower?
I also question more people playing TFO’s today. This time last year there was in increase over 2017 but today I am reasonably sure there has been a large drop off now compared to this time last year (2018). I do wonder how 2019 Sep, Nov, Dec will compare to those months last year. I would be very surprised if he we have not had a reduction in TFO’s as a ratio of the player base taking part.
Game developers will never design general game content for the ultra DPS crowd because they know that only a very small minority of people ever try to reach that point in the first place, thus meaning any content made for them is ultimately wasted money as the majority of players will never play it.
No, that's just STO. I play lots of games that have extreme challenges. One particular game recently had a quest you needed one of two specific lootbox jackpot prizes with a perfect build to even have a theoretical chance to score 100%.
Uhm, no?
Those are nice screenshots, I give you that, but they don't say anywhere what you've been doing while in game.
If you want to prove something, then give solid proof. 'Cause these screenshots ain't proof of anything more than the total time you've been in game.
They literally show the patrol menu, with all of the cooldown times clearly visible. The patrol cooldowns are 30 minutes long, and begin the moment you start them. Thus, its easy to just subtract them from the next patrol in the list to determine how long was spent on them.
For example,
-In the second pic, it clearly shows I started playing 30 minutes ago
-There is 9 seconds left on The Ninth Rule patrol cooldown, meaning I started that patrol 29 minutes and 51 seconds before that pic was taken.
-The second patrol, Within the Briars, still has 5min 50sec left on its cooldown. Meaning I started that one 24min 10sec before I took that pic
-29min 51sec - 24min 10sec= 5min 41sec, the amount of that that I had to have completed the patrol before going onto the next one.
Nope. Cooldown means nothing because, as you were so quick to praise, you can get it and get out and the cooldown would start. Why, just yesterday a fleetmate of mine lost connection when doing The Ninth Rule and when he got back in game, the cooldown had started and he barely had the time to load in the patrol system to begin with!
Also, they don't show if you were alone or not while doing them - which can skew the running time quite a lot.
If you want give us proofs... then give us proofs. This, I'm afraid, it's not enough to show anything.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
“Time gates also do nothing to encourage AFKing. If you AFK during a time gate, it means you aren't there to do the objective, or get the bonus objective, which means losing out on all or part of the reward.” .
There are at least two types of time gates. A 2 minuet trying to keep an NPC alive while they hack a console is perfectly acceptable. I don’t really count that as a time gate but it can be by some definitions. Either way used correctly there is nothing wrong with that as us as a player is engaging with the mission and having an impact.
A time gate to me is the 2nd definition. A pointless wait timer where you have nothing meaningful to do. No impact and being AFK is the same as being active. That is what these patrols are. Once the time gate starts it makes no difference if I walk away from the computer or stay and wait for the timers. Those time gates are poor design as there is no player engagement that matters and no real impact on the mission. In this case it is just a meaningless wait timer to drag the mission out.
Now if they did something like add a ship in that needs repair itself and you have to keep it alive and could do something to help with the repair. That type of time gate is different that’s ok.
“Like the only things they did change was they added a briefing timer to CCA and ISA to allow people to spawn in(which changes nothing about how much effort the TFO takes),” .
The briefing timer is a very good change but they did far more then just add a briefing timer to CCA they made others changes which made it less fun and added two time gates that combined with the briefing timer mean you spend aprox 50% of the TFO with nothing to do and made the player get less involved with the TFO. There are now less options and less to do in that TFO. Spending half of a TFO just waiting for timers is bad design. That’s why I stopped playing it. Before that change I played it every single day.
“-End game content is STO is TFOs and Battlezones, which both the RTFO system, and the personal endeavor system, direct people towards. This has caused places like the Undine, MU, and Gon'Cra, battlezones to be significantly more played then before, and TFOs like Days of Doom, and Assault on Terok Nor, to actually get the occasional play when they come up in the Endeavor system, instead of everyone just huddling in ISA, CCA, Swarm, and the Voth BZ all day every day.” .
That is not end game content that is mostly mid game content. Not only do you access most of that well before reaching end game a lot of that is normal difficulty. How can say normal difficulty’s style content is end game content? Typically, you advanced though difficulty and end game is the hard content. What other game lists content you hit well before max level and is only accessible in easy mode as end game? Since when are standard TFO’s classed as end game in any game? Even Neverwinter doesn’t class the TFO’s as end game. Perhaps some of the Elite only TFO’s could be classed as and game.
The only Battlezone that is high enough level so could be only barely beclassed as end game is gamma Quadrant and that one is all but dead and Endeavours did nothing for it. The Undine Battlezone is only level 50 and while it is fun even with scaling we are overpowered for it at level 65. The same for the other Battlezone’s by level 65 we are to powerful for them to be end game.
Star Trek is overflowing with mid game content but it has a major problem with lack of end game content.
“-Elite TFOs were unchanged by the RTFO system, since most people didn't pug Elites in the first place because you need a good team to do them.” .
You know that is not true the RTFO came with a UI change and that is what caused all the problems. But we have been over all this before and I don’t want to derail the thread going into it again.
“A. You now have significantly more ways to get ship mastery, meaning you don't have to 4/5 Argala all day every day.” .
Which is meaningless as the more ways is worse. What we have now is worse than doing 4/5 Argala all day every day. The idea is better and the new system should have been better but the poor way it has been designed has put us in a worse spot. I don’t find the new patrols as remotely an acceptable replacement for Argala. I can see what the devs where aiming for but they missed the mark big time.
“B. They added the Starbase 234 map to tribble JUST for the purpose of testing builds. “.
Which is almost completely unsuitable and x10 worse then the system we had in place before. Its another case of a good idea but the way they have designed it has made it way less practical to use then what they removed. Leaving us players with a worse QoL.
“Al just said two weeks ago or so that event participation is higher then its ever been. So its still apparently doing quite well for them player wise.” .
They often say things based on marketing and what looks best. Data can be shown in multiples ways to show different things. The statement itself doesn’t tell us anything meaningful. Depending how the data is formatted you can have a drop in the play base engaging in TFO’s but still show an increase in TFO participation.
Event participation I can see being higher than it’s ever been as the free ship token for event runs went down very well. It would be interesting to see this recent events numbers as I expect a lot of people who used to run the full event drop out before this event end. For the first time in is it 10 years? I am not going to run 99% days of an event. I have hard a lot of other people say the same thing.
We also don’t know if AL was just thinking about the older chart he saw which includes the TFO spike. Or after the spike. Without knowing what that comment was based on I have to take it with a pinch of salt. I am not saying he is lying. Only that without knowing which months he is talking about or how he is interrupting the data the statement doesn’t mean much. (I have not listened to that recent audio. if he did go into detail then I will revise what I just said)
"For example,
-In the second pic, it clearly shows I started playing 30 minutes ago"
While I am inclined to believe you in doing them in 30mins give or take 2 mins. I had two patrols fail on me and had to warp out starting the cooldowns. It would be very easy for someone to fake the completion time of 4 patrols by warping out early before the patrol had finished. Saying that 30mins feels around right to me give or take a little.
EDIT: (going start a stop watch and time mine solo later today, not going speed run just go though my typical speed as I fly big slow ships I am expecting 35mins ish) even if I am slower it should help prove your times.
It's quite clear that it doesn't matter what @somtaawkhar says or proof he provides, he's just going to be argued against, because y'all don't agree with him or his position. Whether that's because he's perceived as a Cryptic supporter or there's a personal issue there, I can't say. But that doesn't necessarily make him wrong.
Som, the thing I think you're overlooking is while you're arguing for what's typically possible, they're arguing their personal experience. For example: @pottsey5g 's experiences in-game are a bit atypical. He DID PUG Elites when the system allowed him to, and even though the "number of players queued" counter was never accurate, it did let him know which TFOs were active. While it may be possible to do "Briars" in 5.5-8 minutes, his playstyle (using pets, I believe he said) causes his Red Alert time to be up longer than typical. So, while the average player may be able to do the content they want, when they want, and do it faster, his experience is different. That doesn't make him wrong.
Sometimes, it's not about being right or wrong. Sometimes, it's just about being heard and acknowledged.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
I know for me it is taking me 8 to 10 minutes for the patrols, some are longer than others, never finished in 5.
The TFO is taking me 10 to 15 minutes to run depending on the team I have with me, some are quicker than others (not complaining everyone has their own playing style).
I have also had situations where one day the patrol went faster than the next, and on my end I made no changes to the ship used. I have a friend who has done the same thing. Runs the ninth rule x4. sometimes it runs faster than others.
I think one of the contributing factors to the varied play time for some in "The Ninth Rule" is the enemies sometimes change, which means tactics may need to change. So far, I've gone up against Mo'Kai Klingons, Gorn, Nausicaans, and Hirogen in that patrol.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
I think one of the contributing factors to the varied play time for some in "The Ninth Rule" is the enemies sometimes change, which means tactics may need to change. So far, I've gone up against Mo'Kai Klingons, Gorn, Nausicaans, and Hirogen in that patrol.
And that fact alone is what changes the length of time it takes, some enemies are faster to kill than others.
Yeah nice try Som...how about VIDEOS like was asked? Just because those patrols are on cooldown doesn't mean SQUAT as you can get them on cooldown by quitting the patrols before they are done. You proved NOTHING other than you are willing to lie and lie some more...and lie again. So thank you for proving me right...yet again.
It's quite clear that it doesn't matter what @somtaawkhar says or proof he provides, he's just going to be argued against, because y'all don't agree with him or his position. Whether that's because he's perceived as a Cryptic supporter or there's a personal issue there, I can't say. But that doesn't necessarily make him wrong.
No...being a supporter of cryptic does not make you wrong. Being WRONG makes you wrong and he is willing to basically lie steal and cheat to support cryptic. There comes a point where your reputation precedes you. He has one...and so do I. I don't expect him to tell the truth...and many on this forum doesn't either...so we look at anything he says with a microscope. Just like nobody on this forum expects me to be not be a jerk. I find it funny you say proof...as what he provided was easily doctored to support whatever he wanted to say.
It seems like an odd thing to lie about to me. It is perfectly possible to do some of the patrols like Ruins of Doom in 5mins, I think with practice I could even do that one in 5mins on Elite as long as the loading screen goes fast enough. So with Somtaawkhar playing on normal I can fully believe that.
As for Sentinels due to no time gate I can do that in under 3mins on normal while solo with the loading screen included in the time and I fly a slow Dreadnought so that could be improved. While I have never timed the entire run it just took me 9mins total to do Ruins of Doom and Sentinels combined. Somtaawkhar 22mins for 4 patrols seems reasonable to me. Although I wouldn't expect every player to be able to do it that fast.
The only bit I disagree about is with the right build Sentinels is the fastest as its possible to do that one faster then the time gates in the other patrols. I don't see how its possible for me to do the other patrols anywhere near as fast as I can do Sentinels.
RNGesus, guys! C'mon, do me a solid and don't make me moderate this thread. There's some good discussion, good feedback here. Just dial it back a bit.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
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Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
I think one of the contributing factors to the varied play time for some in "The Ninth Rule" is the enemies sometimes change, which means tactics may need to change. So far, I've gone up against Mo'Kai Klingons, Gorn, Nausicaans, and Hirogen in that patrol.
you can add breen, terrans and fek'ihri to that list
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
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Me too. Though in my case I would totally love it if they replaced the boring run-around-the-block login bonus with actual gameplay.
So, since apparently it was not clear enough the first time: Would that mean not taking as long as it currently takes? Sure thing. Does time spent = variety? Nope. Did I ever implied it did? Again, nope.
But do go on, please. I'm gonna make some popcorn to eat while I read whatever else you think of next.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
it's a hidden timer, plain and simple
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
> the price of zen is currently 430 - so to get 3k (the standard price for a T6 ship), you would need 1,290,000...even if zen hits 500, you would still only need 1,500,000
>
> those uniforms are DISGUSTINGLY overpriced and should NEVER be used in any calculations
No, but it gives a window into Cryptic's mentality.
I got one Epic Token during the very first Phoenix Prize Pack Event and traded it for two URs and got a Bulwark and JHAS as I have all the other T5s and T6s. I have not laid mine eyes on one since.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Cold, you're just shouting into a vacuum sir.
Everything you said was correct, but that won't stop the argument. I think we all know that.
Those are nice screenshots, I give you that, but they don't say anywhere what you've been doing while in game.
If you want to prove something, then give solid proof. 'Cause these screenshots ain't proof of anything more than the total time you've been in game.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
The other patrols still have time gates and time gates are very frustrating and not fun to play. Sentinels even if it takes longer which it does not always is way more fun because it doesn’t have silly time gate. Time Gates are always bad they are what ruined the Mirror event, the CE revamp and others. I don’t mind the time Sentinels takes because it’s fun. Sitting that watching/waiting for time gates to go by is bad.
EDIT: One core problem is time gates take away the feeling of your actions having any meaningful impact. In Sentinels I can boost my damage, I can change my turn rate, change my speed, you can play badly, you can play really well and more all of which impact the mission and how long it takes making your actions feel meaningfull. In a time gate nothing you do matters you can go AFK and alt tab onto the internet, you can play badly, really well yet nothing has an impact meaning you lose that feeling of meaningful impact while doing the mission.
No that is the game we have now. That’s just how the current game feels to me today. In the past the game had challenge, a feeling of accomplishment, a feeling of reward. That has been stripped away and replaced with auto win, auto handout over streamlined systems that are less fun with no feeling of accomplishment or reward. That is not good game design for long term retention. That it was you do for short term quick fix players.
You know that is not 100% true so why do you keep spreading that lie? I can no longer play the TFOs I want via the queue system and am now more limited and stuck in less playable TFO’s that I like to play. I all but stopped using the queue system because I can no longer get the TFOs that I used to play daily to start. All because of a silly UI change that could be undone leaving us with the best of both worlds. Please stop pretending everyone benefited from that change. While some benefited others lost out. I still say that UI change has done more harm then good. Leave Randoms how it is but undo the UI change even if its only for Elites. Then we all benefit. Best of both worlds.
What are you talking about they all but killed off end game content destroying the end game content population. Ground Simulations as one example the population was all but wiped out after a patch change it. Elites all but killed off apart from a few small private groups, Raids removed from game (old style space+ground combined), the amazing NWS was removed and revamped into a worse vision that was no good as end game content. Star Trek Online has a major problem right now with lack of end game content being in the worst state it’s ever been. As much as I love Endeavours they have done nothing for the real end game content.
Accept for levelling up mastery is now less fun and in a worst state then it was and it looks to take much longer as well. They also removed the fun and usefulness of repeating a set map with different equipment to see how different setups perform. There is no suitable replacement for that. Quicker. and easier is not better, in fact I find it worse. Giving us more but worse ways to level up is not an improvement.
How much of that data is real or marketing twisting the facts. Showing the first 3 or 6 months of data since the feature got added and I bet you get a completely different picture over showing just the past 3 or 6 months. For all we know in the past 3 or 6 months a lower ratio of the player base take part in TFO’s but because they add the data in from 9 to 12 months ago it looks like an increase. I would like to see the data after the initial spike has tempered off. Is there really an increase of people doing TFO right now in the past 1 month? For me it doesn’t feel like it. I have found public TFO’s very hard to get started. (even advanced ones). See my quote below. The ratio of the player base taking part in TFO's also matters for a true picture.
More often is debatable they have just changed what they are doing and they are leaving after less then a year now. What was the average retention 8 or 9 months before they quit? Or is it now lower?
I also question more people playing TFO’s today. This time last year there was in increase over 2017 but today I am reasonably sure there has been a large drop off now compared to this time last year (2018). I do wonder how 2019 Sep, Nov, Dec will compare to those months last year. I would be very surprised if he we have not had a reduction in TFO’s as a ratio of the player base taking part.
Also, they don't show if you were alone or not while doing them - which can skew the running time quite a lot.
If you want give us proofs... then give us proofs. This, I'm afraid, it's not enough to show anything.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
A time gate to me is the 2nd definition. A pointless wait timer where you have nothing meaningful to do. No impact and being AFK is the same as being active. That is what these patrols are. Once the time gate starts it makes no difference if I walk away from the computer or stay and wait for the timers. Those time gates are poor design as there is no player engagement that matters and no real impact on the mission. In this case it is just a meaningless wait timer to drag the mission out.
Now if they did something like add a ship in that needs repair itself and you have to keep it alive and could do something to help with the repair. That type of time gate is different that’s ok.
The briefing timer is a very good change but they did far more then just add a briefing timer to CCA they made others changes which made it less fun and added two time gates that combined with the briefing timer mean you spend aprox 50% of the TFO with nothing to do and made the player get less involved with the TFO. There are now less options and less to do in that TFO. Spending half of a TFO just waiting for timers is bad design. That’s why I stopped playing it. Before that change I played it every single day.
That is not end game content that is mostly mid game content. Not only do you access most of that well before reaching end game a lot of that is normal difficulty. How can say normal difficulty’s style content is end game content? Typically, you advanced though difficulty and end game is the hard content. What other game lists content you hit well before max level and is only accessible in easy mode as end game? Since when are standard TFO’s classed as end game in any game? Even Neverwinter doesn’t class the TFO’s as end game. Perhaps some of the Elite only TFO’s could be classed as and game.
The only Battlezone that is high enough level so could be only barely beclassed as end game is gamma Quadrant and that one is all but dead and Endeavours did nothing for it. The Undine Battlezone is only level 50 and while it is fun even with scaling we are overpowered for it at level 65. The same for the other Battlezone’s by level 65 we are to powerful for them to be end game.
Star Trek is overflowing with mid game content but it has a major problem with lack of end game content.
You know that is not true the RTFO came with a UI change and that is what caused all the problems. But we have been over all this before and I don’t want to derail the thread going into it again.
Which is meaningless as the more ways is worse. What we have now is worse than doing 4/5 Argala all day every day. The idea is better and the new system should have been better but the poor way it has been designed has put us in a worse spot. I don’t find the new patrols as remotely an acceptable replacement for Argala. I can see what the devs where aiming for but they missed the mark big time.
Which is almost completely unsuitable and x10 worse then the system we had in place before. Its another case of a good idea but the way they have designed it has made it way less practical to use then what they removed. Leaving us players with a worse QoL.
They often say things based on marketing and what looks best. Data can be shown in multiples ways to show different things. The statement itself doesn’t tell us anything meaningful. Depending how the data is formatted you can have a drop in the play base engaging in TFO’s but still show an increase in TFO participation.
Event participation I can see being higher than it’s ever been as the free ship token for event runs went down very well. It would be interesting to see this recent events numbers as I expect a lot of people who used to run the full event drop out before this event end. For the first time in is it 10 years? I am not going to run 99% days of an event. I have hard a lot of other people say the same thing.
We also don’t know if AL was just thinking about the older chart he saw which includes the TFO spike. Or after the spike. Without knowing what that comment was based on I have to take it with a pinch of salt. I am not saying he is lying. Only that without knowing which months he is talking about or how he is interrupting the data the statement doesn’t mean much. (I have not listened to that recent audio. if he did go into detail then I will revise what I just said)
While I am inclined to believe you in doing them in 30mins give or take 2 mins. I had two patrols fail on me and had to warp out starting the cooldowns. It would be very easy for someone to fake the completion time of 4 patrols by warping out early before the patrol had finished. Saying that 30mins feels around right to me give or take a little.
EDIT: (going start a stop watch and time mine solo later today, not going speed run just go though my typical speed as I fly big slow ships I am expecting 35mins ish) even if I am slower it should help prove your times.
It's quite clear that it doesn't matter what @somtaawkhar says or proof he provides, he's just going to be argued against, because y'all don't agree with him or his position. Whether that's because he's perceived as a Cryptic supporter or there's a personal issue there, I can't say. But that doesn't necessarily make him wrong.
Som, the thing I think you're overlooking is while you're arguing for what's typically possible, they're arguing their personal experience. For example: @pottsey5g 's experiences in-game are a bit atypical. He DID PUG Elites when the system allowed him to, and even though the "number of players queued" counter was never accurate, it did let him know which TFOs were active. While it may be possible to do "Briars" in 5.5-8 minutes, his playstyle (using pets, I believe he said) causes his Red Alert time to be up longer than typical. So, while the average player may be able to do the content they want, when they want, and do it faster, his experience is different. That doesn't make him wrong.
Sometimes, it's not about being right or wrong. Sometimes, it's just about being heard and acknowledged.
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The TFO is taking me 10 to 15 minutes to run depending on the team I have with me, some are quicker than others (not complaining everyone has their own playing style).
I have also had situations where one day the patrol went faster than the next, and on my end I made no changes to the ship used. I have a friend who has done the same thing. Runs the ninth rule x4. sometimes it runs faster than others.
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And that fact alone is what changes the length of time it takes, some enemies are faster to kill than others.
As for Sentinels due to no time gate I can do that in under 3mins on normal while solo with the loading screen included in the time and I fly a slow Dreadnought so that could be improved. While I have never timed the entire run it just took me 9mins total to do Ruins of Doom and Sentinels combined. Somtaawkhar 22mins for 4 patrols seems reasonable to me. Although I wouldn't expect every player to be able to do it that fast.
The only bit I disagree about is with the right build Sentinels is the fastest as its possible to do that one faster then the time gates in the other patrols. I don't see how its possible for me to do the other patrols anywhere near as fast as I can do Sentinels.
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you can add breen, terrans and fek'ihri to that list
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"