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Awakening: Beneath the Skin

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  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,682 Arc User
    I'm going to go through this mission one more time, for the sake of getting the new BOff for a character whose shtick is being a mad scientist. And then I'm never going to touch it again, because it's a colossal pain.

    Plot: The idea of contamination of interdimensional mushrooms causing the destruction of the multiverse was a stupid plot in the show, and it's not any smarter in STO. The idea of feeding someone's research papers into a computer and getting an AI that reasonably imitates the original's personality was nonsensical when VOY did it with Cardassian Mengele, and it's no more logical with STO's Holo-Stamets.

    It makes somewhat more sense with Stamets as Starfleet does have his personal life and thus his psychological evaluation on record unlike with the cardassian scientist. So there's more then just the research papers to go on. Also pior
    getting the memories of the of the real Paul Stamets
    The hologram was just a rough approximation of Paul Stamets rather then a perfect copy of the real deal.
  • salvation4salvation4 Member Posts: 1,167 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    The first new mission felt a little like DOOM LITE with all the teleporting around from boulder to boulder..
    (Trolling/gatekeeping comments moderated out. - BMR)

    Also the new event tab is ok in the mission journal but why is it still there in the Reputations tab of the character/ship profile?! (Does the Picard slow face palm)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
    Adrian-Uss Sovereign NCC-73811 (LVL 65 FED ENG) UR/E MKXV Fleet Intel Assault Cruiser (April 2012) (Main)
    Adu-Uss Firefox NCC-93425-F (LVL 65 FED AoY ENG) UR/VR MKXV Fleet Intel Assault Cruiser (July 2016)
    Jean-Uss Seratoga Ravenna (LVL 60 FED Delta ENG) UC/R MKVI Bajoran Escort (April 2018)
    Dubsa-RRW Mnaudh (LVL 50 FED allied ROM Delta ENG) Warbird (May 2018)
    Marop-IKS Orunthi (LVL 50 KNG Delta ENG) BoP (May 2018)
    Kanak'lan-TRIBBLE (LVL 65 DOM Gamma ENG) TRIBBLE (June 2018)
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,951 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    I'm going to go through this mission one more time, for the sake of getting the new BOff for a character whose shtick is being a mad scientist. And then I'm never going to touch it again, because it's a colossal pain.

    Plot: The idea of contamination of interdimensional mushrooms causing the destruction of the multiverse was a stupid plot in the show, and it's not any smarter in STO. The idea of feeding someone's research papers into a computer and getting an AI that reasonably imitates the original's personality was nonsensical when VOY did it with Cardassian Mengele, and it's no more logical with STO's Holo-Stamets.

    Forgive me, also, for not feeling sorry for the Elachi, when the "friendly" one is still confirmed to have once been a Romulan before being overwritten by malevolent spores. Trying to make such a species sympathetic is even dumber than doing so with the Kobali, and that's saying something.

    Quoted for emphasis. At least when Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda made a species that reproduces by parasitizing sentient life forms, they had enough sense to describe it as [email protected] and consider the species non-negotiably inhuman monsters (aside from Token Heroic Magog Rev Bem).

    Was this mission written by the same person who wrote the damn Kobali arc? And why wasn't that person fired?
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,951 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    they had enough sense to describe it as [email protected] and consider the species non-negotiably inhuman monsters (aside from Token Heroic Magog Rev Bem).
    Ahh yes the "everyone who is different from us is evil and must be destroyed without hesitation" mindset.

    Are you actually incapable of telling the difference between "different" as in "smells funny", "different" as in "believes something different", and "different" as in "biologically required to kill and forcibly transform intelligent beings in order to reproduce"?

    Or are you just trying to pick a fight with me because you consider trolling random people on the Internet the best fun ever?
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,099 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    Are you actually incapable of telling the difference between "different" as in "smells funny", "different" as in "believes something different", and "different" as in "biologically required to kill and forcibly transform intelligent beings in order to reproduce"?

    Or are you just trying to pick a fight with me because you consider trolling random people on the Internet the best fun ever?
    The point was that treating a species as "non-negotiably inhuman monsters" for something that is part of their biology, and that is beyond their ability to control, is idiocy, and antithetical to the very meaning of Trek.

    Its like saying the Devidians are evil because they have to eat neural energy to survive, so we shouldn't try to make contact with them, and find some sort of way to coexist, we should just kill them all because "MUH MONSTERS"

    If there was some technology that allowed the Devidians to consume neural energy without having to harm the host... why not? Same thing with the Kobali. Hell, they could probably get many willing volunteers by pointing out people can essentially get a second life with them. The newest episode shows Elachification can be reverted, or changed, so the original organisms memories can be returned to them. Depending how how intact the Elachi need the original body to be, there's probably plenty of people within the literally trillions of sentient lifeforms within known space who would take the Elachi up on the offer because they suffer from sort of incurable illness, or full body paralysis, that renders their lives miserable, but doesn't affect an Elachified body.

    The only reason we are hostile to them is because we currently lack the technology, or communication, to find another way. There is nothing inherent about their nature that makes co-existing with them impossible unless you simply chose to not try. And just writing them off as non-negotiable inhuman monsters is lazy.

    The key word here is "willing".
    The Elachi didn't gave anyone a choice. Same as the Kobali - with the only difference being that the Kobali at least had the good sense of transforming those there were already dead (except the Vaadwaur, but meh) - and it took a war that almost destroyed them and their world for them to see that there was a better way, which was to simply ask.
    And under what circumstance is "we kidnapped you and Elachified you against your will, but ehi! You can retain your memories!" even remotely ok?
    It's actually worse than being Kobalified/Elachified without retaining your memories, because at least then you DON'T REMEMBER, and you can't miss what you don't remember.
    Not to mention what happen when you are subjected - against your will, no less! - to something like that and still remembers.
    Hello, Voyager anyone? Hell, even Dust to Dust in STO is a perfect example of why that's TRIBBLE up and how it can effectively make you go TRIBBLE crazy.

    But sure, let's just not be "lazy" and find a way to co-exist with them.
    Nevermind the fact that going around abducting people against their will IS what makes co-existing with them impossible, whether you chose to try or not.​​
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,099 Arc User
    The key word here is "willing".
    The Elachi didn't gave anyone a choice. Same as the Kobali - with the only difference being that the Kobali at least had the good sense of transforming those there were already dead (except the Vaadwaur, but meh) - and it took a war that almost destroyed them and their world for them to see that there was a better way, which was to simply ask.
    And under what circumstance is "we kidnapped you and Elachified you against your will, but ehi! You can retain your memories!" even remotely ok?
    It's actually worse than being Kobalified/Elachified without retaining your memories, because at least then you DON'T REMEMBER, and you can't miss what you don't remember.
    Not to mention what happen when you are subjected - against your will, no less! - to something like that and still remembers.
    Hello, Voyager anyone? Hell, even Dust to Dust in STO is a perfect example of why that's TRIBBLE up and how it can effectively make you go TRIBBLE crazy.

    But sure, let's just not be "lazy" and find a way to co-exist with them.
    Nevermind the fact that going around abducting people against their will IS what makes co-existing with them impossible, whether you chose to try or not.​​
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 5,969 Arc User
    Co-exist with the Elachi after everything they've done to the galaxy? **** off! They're monsters! They should be wiped out!
  • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,813 Arc User
    thay8472 wrote: »
    Co-exist with the Elachi after everything they've done to the galaxy? **** off! They're monsters! They should be wiped out!

    They're worse than the Borg and that's saying something
    NMXb2ph.png
      "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
      -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
    • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,099 Arc User
      edited September 2019
      They're worse than the Borg and that's saying something
      The Borg have a body count of 50+ trillion. The Elachi don't come anywhere close to that.
      The Elachi didn't gave anyone a choice.
      Neither did the Kobali, and we have worked to change that, just like we could theoretically do so with the Elachi. Hence why my entire third paragraph was about finding ways to reach that point.

      In your ravenous blind hatred you failed to actually read the whole post.
      the Kobali at least had the good sense of transforming those there were already dead (except the Vaadwaur, but meh)
      The only Vaadwaur the Kobali ever transformed were those whose life pods had failed, and had thus died.

      Come back when you're tired of your selective quoting, your flaming, your insults and your arrogance.
      Mean time, I'll be sleeping 'cause man... you're boring as hell.

      Back to the topic at hand, which is the entire episode and not just the Elachi:
      - VA was good, as I've already said, though I had difficulties recognizing Stamets' voice. But that's probably because I haven't touched Discovery since the end of season 1, so I may not remember it correctly in the first place;
      - the whole scenario feels like being underwater. Again, I may remember it wrong, but I didn't get the feeling of being in a giant aquarium when he travelled there in S1;
      - I got Shon's message that "the Enterprise is here to help", but I looked around and the ship simply wasn't there. A fleetmate said he saw it, though, so it might just have been a temporary glitch or something;
      - The white light effect when traveling from one island to the next was fine the first time, not so much those that followed;
      - The grafic of the travel from island to island made me go back to Stargate SG-1 days. Way too similar to that, imho;
      - The BOFF is nice if you don't have a full roster already, otherwise it's not worth it;
      - I appreciated using Patel as "vessel", but the whole thing about Stamets needing to regain his "live form" memories was unnecessary and the mechanic of actually doing it was... meh;
      - I would've liked to have at least part of the episode take place ON Andoria, instead of just being there orbiting the planet;
      - Also, it's more than possible I've missed something, but I don't think they said why J'Ula choose that particular system to launch her probe, did they? If that's the case, I sincerely hope that something's gonna happen on the planet surface in one of the next episodes, otherwise she could've choosen any other system and it would've been exactly the same thing.​​
      kv1Ohsx.png
      Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

      Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
      - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
      - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
      - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

      Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
      Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
    • trillbuffettrillbuffet Member Posts: 861 Arc User
      Not sure where to put this complaint but it has to do with the current lockbox and the ground kit drops. I assume when you make something character bound like this upon acquiring it that it would be of THE CLASS THE CHARACTER IS. What I mean by that is if I have a science officer opening this that it doesn't give me tactical kits that cannot be sold or done anything with. Although I say lets make a trade you guys take back these tactical kits and trade me one of those D7's :)
    • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,099 Arc User
      Although I say lets make a trade you guys take back these tactical kits and trade me one of those D7's :)

      Eheh, that would be nice eh? tiger-2.gif​​
      kv1Ohsx.png
      Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

      Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
      - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
      - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
      - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

      Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
      Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
    • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
      starswordc wrote: »
      Are you actually incapable of telling the difference between "different" as in "smells funny", "different" as in "believes something different", and "different" as in "biologically required to kill and forcibly transform intelligent beings in order to reproduce"?

      Or are you just trying to pick a fight with me because you consider trolling random people on the Internet the best fun ever?
      The point was that treating a species as "non-negotiably inhuman monsters" for something that is part of their biology, and that is beyond their ability to control, is idiocy, and antithetical to the very meaning of Trek.
      A creature biologically incapable of not murdering people, is the very definition of an inhuman monster.

      On the other hand, if they are capable of not murdering people, but are choosing to murder people anyway because it benefits them, that makes them willingly evil.
      The only reason we are hostile to them is because we currently lack the technology, or communication, to find another way. There is nothing inherent about their nature that makes co-existing with them impossible unless you simply chose to not try. And just writing them off as non-negotiable inhuman monsters is lazy.
      The only reason we are hostile to them is because they are hostile to us. What else are we supposed to do? Just let them murder and eat us?
    • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,523 Arc User
      We just finished binge watching Voyager and I have to say that the Delta Arc provided a pretty good follow on to what happened in Voyager. Even the Patrols tied in to the TV series. The Patrols there have a better story behind them to the typical Romulan Patrols, or even the new ones.
      'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
      Judge Dan Haywood
      'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
      l don't know.
      l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
      That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
      Lt. Philip J. Minns
    • thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 5,969 Arc User
      - Also, it's more than possible I've missed something, but I don't think they said why J'Ula choose that particular system to launch her probe, did they? If that's the case, I sincerely hope that something's gonna happen on the planet surface in one of the next episodes, otherwise she could've choosen any other system and it would've been exactly the same thing.​​
      Andoria seems to be a hub of temporal/multi-dimensional events.

      The Battle of Procyon V takes place there as well.

      The Procyon System isn't in the Andoria System in this game.
    • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 8,091 Community Moderator
      Ok, some of you folks in here need to dial it back a bit.
      GrWzQke.png
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      Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
      Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
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    • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,523 Arc User
      Anyway, as far as the Episode itself. It was obviously similar to the new TFO. Also it definitely reminded me of 'Pahvo Dissension'. It is interesting to note that they never mentioned the 'Special' Reward. Hopefully, what they said in the past about Episode Rewards (from the point they said it) was that the Rewards are permanent. That is, they do not go away when the 'featuredness' goes away (end of Event).

      See how easy it is to keep these Unique Rewards in their Episode. That's right I'm talking to you Reman, Breen, Cane, and Shard.
      'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
      Judge Dan Haywood
      'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
      l don't know.
      l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
      That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
      Lt. Philip J. Minns
    • terranempire#7881 terranempire Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
      thay8472 wrote: »
      Co-exist with the Elachi after everything they've done to the galaxy? **** off! They're monsters! They should be wiped out!

      group-1-copy-51.png?w=760

      Purge the alien mushroom murdering filth... Wipe them out! Glad I am not the only one that cringed at Cryptic attempt to humanise a kidnapping murdering TRIBBLE mushroom.
      so we should try to make contact with them, and find some sort of way to coexist

      2038f56b39331aec3b373215a31144613c007aec_hq.gif

      Not all aliens are peaceful and want to co-exist. This mushroom TRIBBLE race kidnaps people against their will and starts transforming them which is their version for sexual reproduction. Really getting sick of Cryptic trying to turn monsters into joining the happy Fed Alliance. It makes my skin crawl... this level of idiocy in the story writing is ground breaking.




      tumblr_p30rz12vWH1qdb2vqo6_r1_540.gif
      "Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer"
      "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
      #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
    • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 8,091 Community Moderator
      Again, dial it back. RNGesus, it's just a game, people.
      GrWzQke.png
      Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
      Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
      Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
      ----> Contact Customer Support <----
      Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
      Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
      Want the latest information on Star Trek Online? Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
    • thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 5,969 Arc User
      We should mutiny! The Federation isn't worth protecting if they're going to allow this!
    • terranempire#7881 terranempire Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
      edited September 2019
      thay8472 wrote: »
      We should mutiny! The Federation isn't worth protecting if they're going to allow this!

      Here here!
      JNvIWRd.gif?noredirect

      PS. The travelling to different parts of the magic mushroom land tunnel reminded me of Stargate. After the first three travel points I started to get dizzy. Whoever is responsible for the animations though should be given pat on the back. Love how all our characters and bridge officers get facial animations.




      tumblr_p30rz12vWH1qdb2vqo6_r1_540.gif
      "Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer"
      "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
      #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
    • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,951 Arc User
      edited September 2019
      Here's the way I would have handled it.

      If you want a friendly shroom alien, just expand the role of the JahSepp. There's even an opportunity for a real continuity nod.
      453659.jpg
      You could have Not-May turn up and recognize Holo-Stamets, but since the hologram was made from his non-classified papers and biography, he has no idea who she is.

      You want to use the Elachi for this afterwards? Leave them as the evil shroom alien: the toadstool to the portabella, as it were.

      EDIT: Replaced f***huge image with smaller one.
      warpangel wrote: »
      starswordc wrote: »
      Are you actually incapable of telling the difference between "different" as in "smells funny", "different" as in "believes something different", and "different" as in "biologically required to kill and forcibly transform intelligent beings in order to reproduce"?

      Or are you just trying to pick a fight with me because you consider trolling random people on the Internet the best fun ever?
      The point was that treating a species as "non-negotiably inhuman monsters" for something that is part of their biology, and that is beyond their ability to control, is idiocy, and antithetical to the very meaning of Trek.
      A creature biologically incapable of not murdering people, is the very definition of an inhuman monster.

      On the other hand, if they are capable of not murdering people, but are choosing to murder people anyway because it benefits them, that makes them willingly evil.
      The only reason we are hostile to them is because we currently lack the technology, or communication, to find another way. There is nothing inherent about their nature that makes co-existing with them impossible unless you simply chose to not try. And just writing them off as non-negotiable inhuman monsters is lazy.
      The only reason we are hostile to them is because they are hostile to us. What else are we supposed to do? Just let them murder and eat us?

      "It's hard to co-exist with things that want to kill you." -- Hobbes the Tiger
      thay8472 wrote: »
      We should mutiny! The Federation isn't worth protecting if they're going to allow this!

      You know, come to think of it, I'm actually reminded of the second half of DS9: "The Search" where Nechayev sells out the Alpha Quadrant to the Dominion, only it turns out to be a simulation to test the Defiant crew's response. Maybe the whole thing was a mushroom-induced hallucination, like the psilocybin that the JahSepp dosed Tilly and the others with.

      ...Yeah, I didn't think so either.
      "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
      — Sabaton, "Great War"
      VZ9ASdg.png

      Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
    • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,265 Arc User
      OK, I replayed the episode and I gotta ask:

      Where is the implication that Cryptic is trying to make the Elachi "good guys" or welcome them in the Alliance?

      Because from what I saw, it's really about sympathizing with only the Elachi whose original personality and physical traits are coming back. The close-ups of Tarsev makes it clear as it he doesn't look like a typical Elachi, he has normal-ish eyes and mouth, which the real Elachi lack. Heck, he even warns us about other Elachi going on a murdering spree after J'Ula messed things up again. And then, "Patel" talks about trying to find other groups of Elachi ready to join the fight, implying most Elachi would only care about doing their usual horrifying stuff and antagonizing non-fungi lifeforms.

      We even trash a good amounts of their ships afterwards and at no time we go "wait, we can be friends, now!".
      #TASforSTO
      Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
    • terranempire#7881 terranempire Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
      OK, I replayed the episode and I gotta ask:

      Where is the implication that Cryptic is trying to make the Elachi "good guys" or welcome them in the Alliance?

      Because from what I saw, it's really about sympathizing with only the Elachi whose original personality and physical traits are coming back. The close-ups of Tarsev makes it clear as it he doesn't look like a typical Elachi, he has normal-ish eyes and mouth, which the real Elachi lack. Heck, he even warns us about other Elachi going on a murdering spree after J'Ula messed things up again. And then, "Patel" talks about trying to find other groups of Elachi ready to join the fight, implying most Elachi would only care about doing their usual horrifying stuff and antagonizing non-fungi lifeforms.

      We even trash a good amounts of their ships afterwards and at no time we go "wait, we can be friends, now!".

      This is just the beginning. Mark my word. Soon we will be sending the Elachi replicators and ' volunteers' h̶u̶m̶a̶n̶ ̶s̶a̶c̶r̶i̶f̶i̶c̶e̶ because one day they can take their 'rightful place' on the Federation Council. "Everyone should want to be in the Federation."
      starswordc wrote: »
      You know, come to think of it, I'm actually reminded of the second half of DS9: "The Search" where Nechayev sells out the Alpha Quadrant to the Dominion, only it turns out to be a simulation to test the Defiant crew's response. Maybe the whole thing was a mushroom-induced hallucination, like the psilocybin that the JahSepp dosed Tilly and the others with.

      ...Yeah, I didn't think so either.

      Admiral Nechayev... god I hated that admiral. What a TRIBBLE!

      giphy.gif

      Seeing her in DS9 almost made me believe that wasn't a hallucination. It is exactly something she would probably do. I imagine the treaty with the Elachi would be something similar with 'volunteers' being sent to the Elachi and forced to cooperate in the name of understanding and co-existence for the good of the Federation Alliance!

      This is what I think of Admiral Nechayev 'peaceful co-existence'....
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      Go and TRIBBLE!

      tumblr_p30rz12vWH1qdb2vqo6_r1_540.gif
      "Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer"
      "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
      #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
    • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
      OK, I replayed the episode and I gotta ask:

      Where is the implication that Cryptic is trying to make the Elachi "good guys" or welcome them in the Alliance?

      Because from what I saw, it's really about sympathizing with only the Elachi whose original personality and physical traits are coming back. The close-ups of Tarsev makes it clear as it he doesn't look like a typical Elachi, he has normal-ish eyes and mouth, which the real Elachi lack. Heck, he even warns us about other Elachi going on a murdering spree after J'Ula messed things up again. And then, "Patel" talks about trying to find other groups of Elachi ready to join the fight, implying most Elachi would only care about doing their usual horrifying stuff and antagonizing non-fungi lifeforms.

      We even trash a good amounts of their ships afterwards and at no time we go "wait, we can be friends, now!".


      I mostly agree with this from my memory of one playthrough. I believe the episode intends to imply that the BOFF and ship we get as rewards are the Romulan turned Elachi turned Romulachi, aka Tarsev and his ship. The bad shrooms mess up his mind enough but after we fix everything, he and presumably his crew, remember enough of their past lives to defect.

      In other words, they are changed through a freak occurrence after tripping on bad shrooms while the rest remain disgusting creatures or corpses. Had they arrived 5 minutes earlier they would have been dead, and 5 minutes later, they would have remained normal Elachi.

      I'll be very disappointed if it turns out the Elachi are going to largely become friendly, but I don't think the episode really implies that.
    • terranempire#7881 terranempire Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
      edited September 2019
      In the EP they did say they would try and gather other Elachi to fight beside you. That is plenty of indication of Cryptic's plans of making the Elachi friendly. They will keep rogue Elachi bad but the vast majority will become uncorrupted and will join the Federation in peaceful cooperation. I'd be surprised if I am wrong.

      The story pretty much implies that the only reason they're evil is because of J'ula corrupted their food/home. Looks like the Elachi live in the magic mushroom cloud as native species... meh.

      tumblr_p30rz12vWH1qdb2vqo6_r1_540.gif
      "Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer"
      "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
      #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
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