So where do I go to report AFK penalties being applied to my character for no reason at all?
I don't know if this is a bug so I'm not sure how to report it since I'm giving feedback though I'll put it here(hopefully I won't get in trouble just trying ot help!)
..................................
I fired weapons at baddies and completed objectives in phavo distension ground and now I can't play for 30 minutes.
So can anyone explain to me why this happened? It's like the game arbitrarily just decided it doesn't want me to play the queues for 30 minutes and there is no reason for an AFK penalty. It's not fair and I don't have time for it....
Any help understanding this would be great because it makes no sense to me....
Maybe the team just blew through it fast enough I didn't get enough hits in.
I'm a sci captain and focus mainly on healing abilities on the ground. Exotic damage too but they were pretty quick thinking back. I blew up lots of consoles and placed lots of crystals. Maybe that and healing abilities should count toward that though. It's not like I didn't contribute. Just not enough time to keep the team alive and do the required damage maybe.
Like I said I don't know if it's a bug or not so I don't want to report if it's not. It could have been me maybe. I just, have never seen it before I don't understand. It was quite shocking. I can't believe I didn't do 1% or more in damage. I've rigged most of my kit abilities to make my character a decent healer though. Why can't using kit abilities that heal the team and keep them alive count toward that too I wonder? o.O
If it's true and it just doesn't work like you say that would make sense but, I've run a lot of tfo's and I've just never seen it before till now
Well, it is and it isn't. I mean, it doesn't do what it's supposed to do (stop people AFKing), but we may presume the thing it does do (randomly punish people for not doing enough damage) is there on purpose since they haven't changed it in all the years the problem has existed.
BTW, the "1%" figure is a guess. The Invisible Damage Quota has not been extensively researched, because it's too low to be of much real consequence. But it is based on damage alone, not mission objectives. Just shoot more things is all the advice you need. Timed queues like Pahvo Dissension give you plenty of time and respawning enemies to shoot.
The game doesn't just arbitrarily award afk penalties for no reason. To get an AFK penalty means you have dealt less than 1% of the total damage for the entire run. That only happens in very specific circumstances. Either someone is legitimately afk, not trying, their internet crapped, extremely undergeared or build issue, or finally inexperience with the queue itself. By your statements we can eliminate the first three and assume it falls into one of the final 2 categories. To be perfectly blunt when issues like this happen it's very rarely the fault of the game. By the time you could report the issue and get it looked at, you would have already eaten the penalty and been back to playing.
Now with that said, we can offer you help and look at your build so something like this doesn't happen again, or offer tips/advice on how to avoid this issue with that queue again. You are welcome to PM me if you wish and I will help you. I'm sure some of the others in here wouldn't mind helping you either.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
The game doesn't just arbitrarily award afk penalties for no reason. To get an AFK penalty means you have dealt less than 1% of the total damage for the entire run. That only happens in very specific circumstances. Either someone is legitimately afk, not trying, their internet crapped, extremely undergeared or build issue, or finally inexperience with the queue itself. By your statements we can eliminate the first three and assume it falls into one of the final 2 categories. To be perfectly blunt when issues like this happen it's very rarely the fault of the game. By the time you could report the issue and get it looked at, you would have already eaten the penalty and been back to playing.
Now with that said, we can offer you help and look at your build so something like this doesn't happen again, or offer tips/advice on how to avoid this issue with that queue again. You are welcome to PM me if you wish and I will help you. I'm sure some of the others in here wouldn't mind helping you either.
There is a very small chance that the rest of his team was top dpsers and their dps was so high his was just nothing compared to it. For a lot of normal players this can happen as normal players can struggle to get from 2k dps to 10k dps, while we now at this moment have builds capable of doing 1 million dps.
Though he is talking about ground, I misread and thought he meant space, there is a very small possibility that the same still happened, where the other players just outdpsed him by that much, but that's much much harder to do on ground, I see it happen in space occasionally but I don't think I've seen it happen on ground before.
There is a very small chance that the rest of his team was top dpsers and their dps was so high his was just nothing compared to it. For a lot of normal players this can happen as normal players can struggle to get from 2k dps to 10k dps, while we now at this moment have builds capable of doing 1 million dps.
Though he is talking about ground, I misread and thought he meant space, there is a very small possibility that the same still happened, where the other players just outdpsed him by that much, but that's much much harder to do on ground, I see it happen in space occasionally but I don't think I've seen it happen on ground before.
That rarely happens and even with 4 people in the run doing 100k+, 1% of the damage is easily doable with a basic cohesive build and moderate experience. The same thing is true for ground builds as well. Those 1m+ dps builds also are exclusively organized runs using cheesed mechanics and a level of coordination that you're pretty much guaranteed to never see in a pug run. To be blunt if someone can't do 1% of the damage for the entirety of the run, they are not ready for advanced content and especially not ready for elite. Thankfully though it's easier than it's ever been for a person to get ready for advanced or elite content with as many sources of information that exist, and veteran players who are willing to help. This is why I offered to help the OP.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
I don't know; I tend to think that @westx211 may have a point in a sense.
I mean, I'm capable of a paltry (but adequate) 83k on my KDF Tactical char. However, quite often that 83k is meaningless. For example, found myself in an instance of ISA earlier and in a situation that is becoming sadly familiar to me: a player in a Vaaudwar Juggernaught one-shotting everything. That instance didn't even last one minute and the 'team' were little more than witnesses to this one OP player basically solo'ing the map.
I mean, as soon as it became clear that this player didn't need the rest of us I skipped ahead, turning my attention to the right side for example, but made little difference as no-one was able to finish their target before the OP CRF Juggernaught swept in to prove how irrelevant the rest of us were.
Again; if I can manage 83k, but could barely get a shot in, what chane do players who average 10 - 15k stand?
I would need to see this to believe it. Not saying that in a bad way, simply that I need to see it for myself. Something like that requires the perfect storm of events to occur, and while possible it could happen, is exceedingly rare. If someone is doing so much damage that even 83k isn't enough to avoid an AFK penalty, that signals to me a strong possibility of a busted mechanic or ability that needs a fix. Most of the general populace in game simply is not going to have the ability or resources to reach the kind of power level it takes to accomplish what you're talking about. Even in the cases it does happen, it occurs so few times that it's little more than a statistical outlier. Citing that as a reason why the game might give an arbitrary penalty is simply using the exception to try to prove the existence of a rule. It's similar to saying "all cats I've fed chicken flavor Meow Mix have liked it, thus all cats must like it." All it takes is one example to disprove the notion. As such it's not a good example to cite.
Myself and my core crew are by no means the strongest players in game, but we're definitely not the weakest either. The highest parse out of my crew is 225k and our lowest guy is 75k on average. I'm near the middle of the pack with 123k on my main tank toon. We've gone into runs and AFKed people before not intending to do so. Discounting cases out of anyone's control like internet connection issues, all cases we've AFKed someone have been because of 3 things, they were legitimately afk, inexperienced ship builder/unrefined setup, or inexperience with the queue itself. In every case where someone has asked for our help afterwards, they've told us they either didn't know what to do, or we've looked at their build and it was insufficient for the kind of content they were in.
The OP made clear he was at the keyboard and interacting with objectives and shooting foes yet still was given a penalty. The penalty doesn't trigger unless someone does less than 1% of the damage for the entire run, with a select few TFOs being 2%. Since we know the conditions for the penalty, this means if the penalty can be shown to be applying outside of those conditions, it's a bug. That would mean a report from me to the devs for fixing. If the assertion by the OP is that he was unfairly awarded a penalty then I would need to see evidence of that. So far no evidence has been presented to show the penalty was unfairly awarded or triggering outside normal conditions. Thus we can only safely assume at this time the penalty was legitimate and one of 3 things was going on. The OP was legitimately AFK, inexperience with the queue, insufficient gear for the content they were in. Since the OP has specified they were interacting with objectives and shooting foes we can safely eliminate the first one of them being AFK. This means inexperience with the queue and/or insufficient gear or a build issue. Thankfully the last 2 are easy fixes which is why I offered to help him. If it's a bug I need to know so I can forward it up the chain. If it's simply the OP needing a bit of gear and/or some help, that's also something we can provide. The goal is to make sure he doesn't get hit with an AFK penalty again, and if he does it's exceedingly rare or something outside of his control that triggers it. Without knowing more we can only assume it was legitimately awarded based off current evidences presented.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
The OP said it was Pahvo Dissension, not a space queue. The only way to get an AFK in it is to spend too much time with the mission objectives instead of shooting the rubber ducks.
Although some people might be mistakenly thinking players are supposed to follow the mission objectives, not blindly shooting things, but apparently the game disagrees.
Again; if I can manage 83k, but could barely get a shot in, what chane do players who average 10 - 15k stand?
If we're assuming the standard 1% rule, this means 1-1.5m DPS team total would penalize this player. Already this is unlikely to happen. But yeah, drop even lower and it's becoming a possibility, and would be annoying.
Then again, in other games you can fail content and get nothing on a way more regular basis.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
The OP said it was Pahvo Dissension, not a space queue. The only way to get an AFK in it is to spend too much time with the mission objectives instead of shooting the rubber ducks.
Although some people might be mistakenly thinking players are supposed to follow the mission objectives, not blindly shooting things, but apparently the game disagrees.
Even then, if we're talking 1%, you should be able to get that on the final fight alone. Given that even if you're the only one actually setting up crystals (been there, done that) you also get minutes of pure firing during the first phase, and with the differences on ground being smaller, it's strange. 1% means the other 4 have to combine for 99%, so roughly 25% each. Even if you spend half your time off shooting because you are actually advancing the objectives, that's being outscored by a factor of more than 10 while actively engaged in combat by every other player. This shouldn't be possible if you just take any green Mk XII drop and only press 1. I could see problems with melee builds not being quick enough to reach enemies before they perish.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
- I have never seen an official test/report that 1% is the actual number. I have seen people make references to "a couple percent", "2%", "1%" and even 5%... but nothing that I would consider to be definitive. The fact that a forum mod mentions it in a post is not what I consider 'definitive' unless that forum mod declares he has it as fact from a dev source.
- I have seen people say "I don't believe this happens" (or words to that effect) even though they are talking to people who claim that it has happened to them. Here's a tip: unless you are assuming the other person is lying or exaggerating or simply flat-out wrong, the fact that something doesn't happen to you does not mean it doesn't happen to them.
Most particularly, seeing people who have been at the high end of the game for years tell newer people "I doubt that really happens" implies a certain amount of 'being out of touch with the new player experience', to me.
- The few times I have encountered people in my queue getting AFK penaltied in the past, even when they were trying, was mostly due to a combination of:
- they didn't know exactly where to go before entering the queue (as most experienced players do), thus they were slow to pick a target and direction
- they don't have the speed boosts and the ability to overlap a variety of speed boost that better geared players do, thus they were slow to arrive at their target
- they don't have multiple power boosts or 'instantly restore power levels after max impulse' abilities, and thus their first couple shots are quite weak
- the targets are dead before they can get a decent shot in
- they then have to wait for 'combat timer to end' before they can max impulse to the next target, which just puts them farther behind and they end up in a cycle of 'arriving too late, doing 1-2 really weak shots, everything explodes'.
I have played for a lot of years, in a lot of queues, and only seen this happen maybe half a dozen times. So yes, it probably doesn't happen a lot, but it definitely does happen.
The OP said it was Pahvo Dissension, not a space queue. The only way to get an AFK in it is to spend too much time with the mission objectives instead of shooting the rubber ducks.
Although some people might be mistakenly thinking players are supposed to follow the mission objectives, not blindly shooting things, but apparently the game disagrees.
Even then, if we're talking 1%, you should be able to get that on the final fight alone. Given that even if you're the only one actually setting up crystals (been there, done that) you also get minutes of pure firing during the first phase, and with the differences on ground being smaller, it's strange. 1% means the other 4 have to combine for 99%, so roughly 25% each. Even if you spend half your time off shooting because you are actually advancing the objectives, that's being outscored by a factor of more than 10 while actively engaged in combat by every other player. This shouldn't be possible if you just take any green Mk XII drop and only press 1. I could see problems with melee builds not being quick enough to reach enemies before they perish.
Obviously it shouldn't be possible, but nonetheless is. Players have been complaining of this since the Invisible Damage Quota was added.
And I believe it's much more likely to be a fixed threshold than "1%," but whatever. The only solution is to shoot things more.
Even then, if we're talking 1%, you should be able to get that on the final fight alone. Given that even if you're the only one actually setting up crystals (been there, done that) you also get minutes of pure firing during the first phase, and with the differences on ground being smaller, it's strange. 1% means the other 4 have to combine for 99%, so roughly 25% each. Even if you spend half your time off shooting because you are actually advancing the objectives, that's being outscored by a factor of more than 10 while actively engaged in combat by every other player. This shouldn't be possible if you just take any green Mk XII drop and only press 1. I could see problems with melee builds not being quick enough to reach enemies before they perish.
Obviously it shouldn't be possible, but nonetheless is. Players have been complaining of this since the Invisible Damage Quota was added.
And I believe it's much more likely to be a fixed threshold than "1%," but whatever. The only solution is to shoot things more.[/quote]
I do believe that this will happen in space. But in the instance of this particular ground mission I don't see how it could happen without the player seriously messing up. If you actually play the mission you'll be in a "hold this spot from oncoming enemies" situation most of the time and will always be able to get a shot in here and there. Granted, getting killed is a major drawback, what with the downtime and having to run all over to the fighting area again. And yes, some people are running around the area without ever even finding enemies - but with those nice shiny pathways I'd consider that "seriously messing up".
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
Even then, if we're talking 1%, you should be able to get that on the final fight alone. Given that even if you're the only one actually setting up crystals (been there, done that) you also get minutes of pure firing during the first phase, and with the differences on ground being smaller, it's strange. 1% means the other 4 have to combine for 99%, so roughly 25% each. Even if you spend half your time off shooting because you are actually advancing the objectives, that's being outscored by a factor of more than 10 while actively engaged in combat by every other player. This shouldn't be possible if you just take any green Mk XII drop and only press 1. I could see problems with melee builds not being quick enough to reach enemies before they perish.
Obviously it shouldn't be possible, but nonetheless is. Players have been complaining of this since the Invisible Damage Quota was added.
And I believe it's much more likely to be a fixed threshold than "1%," but whatever. The only solution is to shoot things more.
I do believe that this will happen in space. But in the instance of this particular ground mission I don't see how it could happen without the player seriously messing up. If you actually play the mission you'll be in a "hold this spot from oncoming enemies" situation most of the time and will always be able to get a shot in here and there. Granted, getting killed is a major drawback, what with the downtime and having to run all over to the fighting area again. And yes, some people are running around the area without ever even finding enemies - but with those nice shiny pathways I'd consider that "seriously messing up".[/quote]
I could see it happening if they only stay near the other players on the path, especially if those other players are science based. Science players have some very powerful abilities that on normal can kill groups of enemies in less than a second, so if there's two of them with this guy he might never get a shot off or get only a few, though for sure its significantly harder to be unable to participate on ground than in space.
I do believe that this will happen in space. But in the instance of this particular ground mission I don't see how it could happen without the player seriously messing up. If you actually play the mission you'll be in a "hold this spot from oncoming enemies" situation most of the time and will always be able to get a shot in here and there. Granted, getting killed is a major drawback, what with the downtime and having to run all over to the fighting area again. And yes, some people are running around the area without ever even finding enemies - but with those nice shiny pathways I'd consider that "seriously messing up".
Be able to, yes. But that's not the mission objective. The objective is to break the agonizers and place crystals. That's the point. Players are implicitly not allowed to concentrate on the mission objectives while teammates cover for them, even in missions where that would be clearly the best tactic. Everbody must shoot things, because "not shooting" == "AFK."
- I have never seen an official test/report that 1% is the actual number. I have seen people make references to "a couple percent", "2%", "1%" and even 5%... but nothing that I would consider to be definitive. The fact that a forum mod mentions it in a post is not what I consider 'definitive' unless that forum mod declares he has it as fact from a dev source.
- I have seen people say "I don't believe this happens" (or words to that effect) even though they are talking to people who claim that it has happened to them. Here's a tip: unless you are assuming the other person is lying or exaggerating or simply flat-out wrong, the fact that something doesn't happen to you does not mean it doesn't happen to them.
Most particularly, seeing people who have been at the high end of the game for years tell newer people "I doubt that really happens" implies a certain amount of 'being out of touch with the new player experience', to me.
- The few times I have encountered people in my queue getting AFK penaltied in the past, even when they were trying, was mostly due to a combination of:
- they didn't know exactly where to go before entering the queue (as most experienced players do), thus they were slow to pick a target and direction
- they don't have the speed boosts and the ability to overlap a variety of speed boost that better geared players do, thus they were slow to arrive at their target
- they don't have multiple power boosts or 'instantly restore power levels after max impulse' abilities, and thus their first couple shots are quite weak
- the targets are dead before they can get a decent shot in
- they then have to wait for 'combat timer to end' before they can max impulse to the next target, which just puts them farther behind and they end up in a cycle of 'arriving too late, doing 1-2 really weak shots, everything explodes'.
I have played for a lot of years, in a lot of queues, and only seen this happen maybe half a dozen times. So yes, it probably doesn't happen a lot, but it definitely does happen.
Had it on console where a guy went deliberately AFK and hid for the first phase, then barely make it back in for the final phase, then lit the chat up blue because he got AFK penalty. So yes, there is a reason to say 'we don't believe you'. Yes, people intentionally game the AFK system and exploit it, especially the '1% rule'. The game's AFK detection is very poor, lacking even basic input detection in that system.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
I don't know; I tend to think that @westx211 may have a point in a sense.
I mean, I'm capable of a paltry (but adequate) 83k on my KDF Tactical char. However, quite often that 83k is meaningless. For example, found myself in an instance of ISA earlier and in a situation that is becoming sadly familiar to me: a player in a Vaaudwar Juggernaught one-shotting everything. That instance didn't even last one minute and the 'team' were little more than witnesses to this one OP player basically solo'ing the map.
I mean, as soon as it became clear that this player didn't need the rest of us I skipped ahead, turning my attention to the right side for example, but made little difference as no-one was able to finish their target before the OP CRF Juggernaught swept in to prove how irrelevant the rest of us were.
Again; if I can manage 83k, but could barely get a shot in, what chane do players who average 10 - 15k stand?
Hm... 83k and rising. That's Gold! Thats good! But I bet you can do better.
Any chance you like to make a Jugger yourself? Hard to pilot but it hits like nothing else in game... well aside from other Juggers.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
- I have never seen an official test/report that 1% is the actual number. I have seen people make references to "a couple percent", "2%", "1%" and even 5%... but nothing that I would consider to be definitive. The fact that a forum mod mentions it in a post is not what I consider 'definitive' unless that forum mod declares he has it as fact from a dev source.
- I have seen people say "I don't believe this happens" (or words to that effect) even though they are talking to people who claim that it has happened to them. Here's a tip: unless you are assuming the other person is lying or exaggerating or simply flat-out wrong, the fact that something doesn't happen to you does not mean it doesn't happen to them.
Most particularly, seeing people who have been at the high end of the game for years tell newer people "I doubt that really happens" implies a certain amount of 'being out of touch with the new player experience', to me.
- The few times I have encountered people in my queue getting AFK penaltied in the past, even when they were trying, was mostly due to a combination of:
- they didn't know exactly where to go before entering the queue (as most experienced players do), thus they were slow to pick a target and direction
- they don't have the speed boosts and the ability to overlap a variety of speed boost that better geared players do, thus they were slow to arrive at their target
- they don't have multiple power boosts or 'instantly restore power levels after max impulse' abilities, and thus their first couple shots are quite weak
- the targets are dead before they can get a decent shot in
- they then have to wait for 'combat timer to end' before they can max impulse to the next target, which just puts them farther behind and they end up in a cycle of 'arriving too late, doing 1-2 really weak shots, everything explodes'.
I have played for a lot of years, in a lot of queues, and only seen this happen maybe half a dozen times. So yes, it probably doesn't happen a lot, but it definitely does happen.
Had it on console where a guy went deliberately AFK and hid for the first phase, then barely make it back in for the final phase, then lit the chat up blue because he got AFK penalty. So yes, there is a reason to say 'we don't believe you'. Yes, people intentionally game the AFK system and exploit it, especially the '1% rule'. The game's AFK detection is very poor, lacking even basic input detection in that system.
The majority of people who AFK, do it in organized AFK queus, its extremely rare for someone to legitimately afk a queue and it sounds like you ran into an outlier. Getting accidental afk's happens decently frequently, I used to run with some of the dps league members and we had to stop pugging because we were outdpsing the random guys so much we were forcing them to get afk penalties. the average player only gets around 10k to 15k dps. Some dps league teams have every player hitting 200k and more, so say that's 4 players doing 200k dps each, that's 815k dps for the entire team, that 10 to 15k of the 5th player is well below the 1% dps mark if that is what the mark is.
The OP said it was Pahvo Dissension, not a space queue. The only way to get an AFK in it is to spend too much time with the mission objectives instead of shooting the rubber ducks.
Although some people might be mistakenly thinking players are supposed to follow the mission objectives, not blindly shooting things, but apparently the game disagrees.
Actually, shooting Terrans is part of the objectives. If all you do is place crystals the mission goes nowhere. You have to shoot Terrans to keep them from breaking the crystals. The mission objectives even tell you this.
Be able to, yes. But that's not the mission objective. The objective is to break the agonizers and place crystals. That's the point. Players are implicitly not allowed to concentrate on the mission objectives while teammates cover for them, even in missions where that would be clearly the best tactic. Everbody must shoot things, because "not shooting" == "AFK."
The point you're making is very valid and even more so in some space TFO where people can incredible-DPS at decoy mobs while only you are progressing the objectives (and cannot shoot at all yourself because it will halt progression). However, in Dissension there's only so much time you need for the objective setup, so that if you don't intentionally refuse to shoot while having nothing else to do, you should meet the quota. That is not to say that applying a "pseudo DPS" score to setting up crystals couldn't be applied (it should be), but barring things happening I cannot even fathom, going for the objectives shouldn't prevent you from doing enough DPS in this specific TFO.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
So where do I go to report AFK penalties being applied to my character for no reason at all?
I don't know if this is a bug so I'm not sure how to report it since I'm giving feedback though I'll put it here(hopefully I won't get in trouble just trying ot help!)
..................................
I fired weapons at baddies and completed objectives in phavo distension ground and now I can't play for 30 minutes.
So can anyone explain to me why this happened? It's like the game arbitrarily just decided it doesn't want me to play the queues for 30 minutes and there is no reason for an AFK penalty. It's not fair and I don't have time for it....
Any help understanding this would be great because it makes no sense to me....
AFAIK, the AFK penalty is 2 hours. 30 minutes is the amount of cool-off time between playing the same TFO again.
I know the OP say they can't "play the queues for 30 minutes" but I wonder if it was really everything at this point
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
- I have never seen an official test/report that 1% is the actual number. I have seen people make references to "a couple percent", "2%", "1%" and even 5%... but nothing that I would consider to be definitive. The fact that a forum mod mentions it in a post is not what I consider 'definitive' unless that forum mod declares he has it as fact from a dev source.
They said it on stream a few times the threshold is 1%. I've also had it confirmed outside of the streams for bug testing purposes as I pull double duty as a Bug Hunter as well. We can also do tests to verify this amount which others have confirmed on their own as well.
- I have seen people say "I don't believe this happens" (or words to that effect) even though they are talking to people who claim that it has happened to them. Here's a tip: unless you are assuming the other person is lying or exaggerating or simply flat-out wrong, the fact that something doesn't happen to you does not mean it doesn't happen to them.
Neither myself or others are saying it can't happen or are calling them liars. What I am saying however is I need to see it for myself. AFK penalties are not simply awarded arbitrarily. There are certain conditions/thresholds that need to be met, or not met in this case, for the penalty to trigger. If it's triggering outside of those conditions then we have a bug going on which will need to be fixed. Which means paperwork for me to send it up the chain. I believe people get AFK penalties from time to time, but I have a hard time believing that it's occurring for no reason, as all the times I've seen it be given, in most 98% of those cases it was working as intended and the user needed to adjust their build and/or tactics. Thankfully that is easy enough to change. That's not a swipe at you or anyone else. Barring circumstances out of anyone's control such as an internet drop, there are certain ways to trigger the penalty. Anything outside of that is a bug. If it's a bug I will report it, but I need to see evidence to demonstrate it's bugged. Without that evidence I have to assume it's working as intended and you just had bad luck with a run, or something else is at fault. One's build and how they use said build is a usual suspect when things like this are brought up which is why I always want to check that stuff first.
Most particularly, seeing people who have been at the high end of the game for years tell newer people "I doubt that really happens" implies a certain amount of 'being out of touch with the new player experience', to me.
- The few times I have encountered people in my queue getting AFK penaltied in the past, even when they were trying, was mostly due to a combination of:
- they didn't know exactly where to go before entering the queue (as most experienced players do), thus they were slow to pick a target and direction
- they don't have the speed boosts and the ability to overlap a variety of speed boost that better geared players do, thus they were slow to arrive at their target
- they don't have multiple power boosts or 'instantly restore power levels after max impulse' abilities, and thus their first couple shots are quite weak
- the targets are dead before they can get a decent shot in
- they then have to wait for 'combat timer to end' before they can max impulse to the next target, which just puts them farther behind and they end up in a cycle of 'arriving too late, doing 1-2 really weak shots, everything explodes'.
I have played for a lot of years, in a lot of queues, and only seen this happen maybe half a dozen times. So yes, it probably doesn't happen a lot, but it definitely does happen.
As I pointed out above, no one is saying it can't happen or doesn't happen. What is being said is it's a rarity and should be a rarity that one gets a penalty. Barring issues outside of anyone's control like internet drop, folks should have a decent enough setup and basic knowledge to deal 1% of the damage for the entire run. With the current rewards from story episodes alone one can come out with a full set of mk xii very rare purple gear for their ground set and space alike. If it does turn out to be a build related something, it's easy enough to correct and let one get their foot in the door.
I've seen alot of posts about afk penalties and even talked with a good number of folks who have eaten the penalty. Only twice have I ever seen it be because of a bug. The other times it was a legitimate afk penalty. However we were able to rejig some stuff so it doesn't happen to them again, and if it does it takes an act of Q for it to happen. Everything I have now as a long time veteran player anyone else can have as well with a little time and effort.
I'm asking you what evidences you have to show it wasn't legitimate as if it is bugged, then that means I have to submit a bug report. If it is a legit penalty, then I can help you out so that doesn't happen again. I tend to be very blunt with stuff as I prefer not to sugar coat things with folks, just as I prefer them not to do with me. If it's bugged I will file a report, if it's legit then I'm willing to help you out.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
I don't know; I tend to think that @westx211 may have a point in a sense.
I mean, I'm capable of a paltry (but adequate) 83k on my KDF Tactical char. However, quite often that 83k is meaningless. For example, found myself in an instance of ISA earlier and in a situation that is becoming sadly familiar to me: a player in a Vaaudwar Juggernaught one-shotting everything. That instance didn't even last one minute and the 'team' were little more than witnesses to this one OP player basically solo'ing the map.
I mean, as soon as it became clear that this player didn't need the rest of us I skipped ahead, turning my attention to the right side for example, but made little difference as no-one was able to finish their target before the OP CRF Juggernaught swept in to prove how irrelevant the rest of us were.
Again; if I can manage 83k, but could barely get a shot in, what chane do players who average 10 - 15k stand?
Hm... 83k and rising. That's Gold! Thats good! But I bet you can do better.
Any chance you like to make a Jugger yourself? Hard to pilot but it hits like nothing else in game... well aside from other Juggers.
I don't know - telling people such as yourself that I managed to scrape 83k feels a little bit like saying "I won $20!" to someone who won 50 million
As for the Juggernaught - don't know. I could get it, but one of my setbacks is that I'm a fairly sloppy pilot and I suspect that's holding me back somewhat. I mean, I tried using my Pilot Raptor but that was too nimble for my reaction speed. I was in my T6 Elachi Escort when managed to scrape that 83k. Am trying the Jem'Hadar Warship, now have unlocked it across my account, next. But too big and I slide past the target and too small/nimble I can't seem to keep the nose on point.
Well both Vanguard Warship and the Fleet Gagarin would be mega DPS centric as well due to thier miracle worker stuff. They do a bit less dmg compared to the Jugger but are more easy to pilot.
If you ever like to make a respective build we can do so together in the academy section. There is lots of freedom as for energy types atm but especialy phaser and disruptor shine due to set and gear selections.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Comments
Bug report I guess if it makes you feel better, but not like anything will be done about it. It's been that way since they put the thing in.
Maybe the team just blew through it fast enough I didn't get enough hits in.
I'm a sci captain and focus mainly on healing abilities on the ground. Exotic damage too but they were pretty quick thinking back. I blew up lots of consoles and placed lots of crystals. Maybe that and healing abilities should count toward that though. It's not like I didn't contribute. Just not enough time to keep the team alive and do the required damage maybe.
At least I think I get it now. Thank you.
BTW, the "1%" figure is a guess. The Invisible Damage Quota has not been extensively researched, because it's too low to be of much real consequence. But it is based on damage alone, not mission objectives. Just shoot more things is all the advice you need. Timed queues like Pahvo Dissension give you plenty of time and respawning enemies to shoot.
You don't. Just get over it and play again in 30 minutes.
Now with that said, we can offer you help and look at your build so something like this doesn't happen again, or offer tips/advice on how to avoid this issue with that queue again. You are welcome to PM me if you wish and I will help you. I'm sure some of the others in here wouldn't mind helping you either.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
There is a very small chance that the rest of his team was top dpsers and their dps was so high his was just nothing compared to it. For a lot of normal players this can happen as normal players can struggle to get from 2k dps to 10k dps, while we now at this moment have builds capable of doing 1 million dps.
Though he is talking about ground, I misread and thought he meant space, there is a very small possibility that the same still happened, where the other players just outdpsed him by that much, but that's much much harder to do on ground, I see it happen in space occasionally but I don't think I've seen it happen on ground before.
That rarely happens and even with 4 people in the run doing 100k+, 1% of the damage is easily doable with a basic cohesive build and moderate experience. The same thing is true for ground builds as well. Those 1m+ dps builds also are exclusively organized runs using cheesed mechanics and a level of coordination that you're pretty much guaranteed to never see in a pug run. To be blunt if someone can't do 1% of the damage for the entirety of the run, they are not ready for advanced content and especially not ready for elite. Thankfully though it's easier than it's ever been for a person to get ready for advanced or elite content with as many sources of information that exist, and veteran players who are willing to help. This is why I offered to help the OP.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
I would need to see this to believe it. Not saying that in a bad way, simply that I need to see it for myself. Something like that requires the perfect storm of events to occur, and while possible it could happen, is exceedingly rare. If someone is doing so much damage that even 83k isn't enough to avoid an AFK penalty, that signals to me a strong possibility of a busted mechanic or ability that needs a fix. Most of the general populace in game simply is not going to have the ability or resources to reach the kind of power level it takes to accomplish what you're talking about. Even in the cases it does happen, it occurs so few times that it's little more than a statistical outlier. Citing that as a reason why the game might give an arbitrary penalty is simply using the exception to try to prove the existence of a rule. It's similar to saying "all cats I've fed chicken flavor Meow Mix have liked it, thus all cats must like it." All it takes is one example to disprove the notion. As such it's not a good example to cite.
Myself and my core crew are by no means the strongest players in game, but we're definitely not the weakest either. The highest parse out of my crew is 225k and our lowest guy is 75k on average. I'm near the middle of the pack with 123k on my main tank toon. We've gone into runs and AFKed people before not intending to do so. Discounting cases out of anyone's control like internet connection issues, all cases we've AFKed someone have been because of 3 things, they were legitimately afk, inexperienced ship builder/unrefined setup, or inexperience with the queue itself. In every case where someone has asked for our help afterwards, they've told us they either didn't know what to do, or we've looked at their build and it was insufficient for the kind of content they were in.
The OP made clear he was at the keyboard and interacting with objectives and shooting foes yet still was given a penalty. The penalty doesn't trigger unless someone does less than 1% of the damage for the entire run, with a select few TFOs being 2%. Since we know the conditions for the penalty, this means if the penalty can be shown to be applying outside of those conditions, it's a bug. That would mean a report from me to the devs for fixing. If the assertion by the OP is that he was unfairly awarded a penalty then I would need to see evidence of that. So far no evidence has been presented to show the penalty was unfairly awarded or triggering outside normal conditions. Thus we can only safely assume at this time the penalty was legitimate and one of 3 things was going on. The OP was legitimately AFK, inexperience with the queue, insufficient gear for the content they were in. Since the OP has specified they were interacting with objectives and shooting foes we can safely eliminate the first one of them being AFK. This means inexperience with the queue and/or insufficient gear or a build issue. Thankfully the last 2 are easy fixes which is why I offered to help him. If it's a bug I need to know so I can forward it up the chain. If it's simply the OP needing a bit of gear and/or some help, that's also something we can provide. The goal is to make sure he doesn't get hit with an AFK penalty again, and if he does it's exceedingly rare or something outside of his control that triggers it. Without knowing more we can only assume it was legitimately awarded based off current evidences presented.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Although some people might be mistakenly thinking players are supposed to follow the mission objectives, not blindly shooting things, but apparently the game disagrees.
If we're assuming the standard 1% rule, this means 1-1.5m DPS team total would penalize this player. Already this is unlikely to happen. But yeah, drop even lower and it's becoming a possibility, and would be annoying.
Then again, in other games you can fail content and get nothing on a way more regular basis.
Even then, if we're talking 1%, you should be able to get that on the final fight alone. Given that even if you're the only one actually setting up crystals (been there, done that) you also get minutes of pure firing during the first phase, and with the differences on ground being smaller, it's strange. 1% means the other 4 have to combine for 99%, so roughly 25% each. Even if you spend half your time off shooting because you are actually advancing the objectives, that's being outscored by a factor of more than 10 while actively engaged in combat by every other player. This shouldn't be possible if you just take any green Mk XII drop and only press 1. I could see problems with melee builds not being quick enough to reach enemies before they perish.
and enemies ALWAYS running away backwards at speeds no being should be able to do so at - not without risking tripping, anyway
though, the disco burned ham set should alleviate those issues somewhat - it has mondo speed boosts AND it can root attackers in place
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
- I have never seen an official test/report that 1% is the actual number. I have seen people make references to "a couple percent", "2%", "1%" and even 5%... but nothing that I would consider to be definitive. The fact that a forum mod mentions it in a post is not what I consider 'definitive' unless that forum mod declares he has it as fact from a dev source.
- I have seen people say "I don't believe this happens" (or words to that effect) even though they are talking to people who claim that it has happened to them. Here's a tip: unless you are assuming the other person is lying or exaggerating or simply flat-out wrong, the fact that something doesn't happen to you does not mean it doesn't happen to them.
Most particularly, seeing people who have been at the high end of the game for years tell newer people "I doubt that really happens" implies a certain amount of 'being out of touch with the new player experience', to me.
- The few times I have encountered people in my queue getting AFK penaltied in the past, even when they were trying, was mostly due to a combination of:
- they didn't know exactly where to go before entering the queue (as most experienced players do), thus they were slow to pick a target and direction
- they don't have the speed boosts and the ability to overlap a variety of speed boost that better geared players do, thus they were slow to arrive at their target
- they don't have multiple power boosts or 'instantly restore power levels after max impulse' abilities, and thus their first couple shots are quite weak
- the targets are dead before they can get a decent shot in
- they then have to wait for 'combat timer to end' before they can max impulse to the next target, which just puts them farther behind and they end up in a cycle of 'arriving too late, doing 1-2 really weak shots, everything explodes'.
I have played for a lot of years, in a lot of queues, and only seen this happen maybe half a dozen times. So yes, it probably doesn't happen a lot, but it definitely does happen.
And I believe it's much more likely to be a fixed threshold than "1%," but whatever. The only solution is to shoot things more.
And I believe it's much more likely to be a fixed threshold than "1%," but whatever. The only solution is to shoot things more.[/quote]
I do believe that this will happen in space. But in the instance of this particular ground mission I don't see how it could happen without the player seriously messing up. If you actually play the mission you'll be in a "hold this spot from oncoming enemies" situation most of the time and will always be able to get a shot in here and there. Granted, getting killed is a major drawback, what with the downtime and having to run all over to the fighting area again. And yes, some people are running around the area without ever even finding enemies - but with those nice shiny pathways I'd consider that "seriously messing up".
I do believe that this will happen in space. But in the instance of this particular ground mission I don't see how it could happen without the player seriously messing up. If you actually play the mission you'll be in a "hold this spot from oncoming enemies" situation most of the time and will always be able to get a shot in here and there. Granted, getting killed is a major drawback, what with the downtime and having to run all over to the fighting area again. And yes, some people are running around the area without ever even finding enemies - but with those nice shiny pathways I'd consider that "seriously messing up".[/quote]
I could see it happening if they only stay near the other players on the path, especially if those other players are science based. Science players have some very powerful abilities that on normal can kill groups of enemies in less than a second, so if there's two of them with this guy he might never get a shot off or get only a few, though for sure its significantly harder to be unable to participate on ground than in space.
Had it on console where a guy went deliberately AFK and hid for the first phase, then barely make it back in for the final phase, then lit the chat up blue because he got AFK penalty. So yes, there is a reason to say 'we don't believe you'. Yes, people intentionally game the AFK system and exploit it, especially the '1% rule'. The game's AFK detection is very poor, lacking even basic input detection in that system.
Hm... 83k and rising. That's Gold! Thats good! But I bet you can do better.
Any chance you like to make a Jugger yourself? Hard to pilot but it hits like nothing else in game... well aside from other Juggers.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
The majority of people who AFK, do it in organized AFK queus, its extremely rare for someone to legitimately afk a queue and it sounds like you ran into an outlier. Getting accidental afk's happens decently frequently, I used to run with some of the dps league members and we had to stop pugging because we were outdpsing the random guys so much we were forcing them to get afk penalties. the average player only gets around 10k to 15k dps. Some dps league teams have every player hitting 200k and more, so say that's 4 players doing 200k dps each, that's 815k dps for the entire team, that 10 to 15k of the 5th player is well below the 1% dps mark if that is what the mark is.
My character Tsin'xing
The point you're making is very valid and even more so in some space TFO where people can incredible-DPS at decoy mobs while only you are progressing the objectives (and cannot shoot at all yourself because it will halt progression). However, in Dissension there's only so much time you need for the objective setup, so that if you don't intentionally refuse to shoot while having nothing else to do, you should meet the quota. That is not to say that applying a "pseudo DPS" score to setting up crystals couldn't be applied (it should be), but barring things happening I cannot even fathom, going for the objectives shouldn't prevent you from doing enough DPS in this specific TFO.
AFAIK, the AFK penalty is 2 hours. 30 minutes is the amount of cool-off time between playing the same TFO again.
I know the OP say they can't "play the queues for 30 minutes" but I wonder if it was really everything at this point
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Good to know. I never get the penalty so I had no occasion to notice. Cheers for the update.
Fair enough. However my previous points still stand. Something like what you were describing is an extremely rare event.
They said it on stream a few times the threshold is 1%. I've also had it confirmed outside of the streams for bug testing purposes as I pull double duty as a Bug Hunter as well. We can also do tests to verify this amount which others have confirmed on their own as well.
Neither myself or others are saying it can't happen or are calling them liars. What I am saying however is I need to see it for myself. AFK penalties are not simply awarded arbitrarily. There are certain conditions/thresholds that need to be met, or not met in this case, for the penalty to trigger. If it's triggering outside of those conditions then we have a bug going on which will need to be fixed. Which means paperwork for me to send it up the chain. I believe people get AFK penalties from time to time, but I have a hard time believing that it's occurring for no reason, as all the times I've seen it be given, in most 98% of those cases it was working as intended and the user needed to adjust their build and/or tactics. Thankfully that is easy enough to change. That's not a swipe at you or anyone else. Barring circumstances out of anyone's control such as an internet drop, there are certain ways to trigger the penalty. Anything outside of that is a bug. If it's a bug I will report it, but I need to see evidence to demonstrate it's bugged. Without that evidence I have to assume it's working as intended and you just had bad luck with a run, or something else is at fault. One's build and how they use said build is a usual suspect when things like this are brought up which is why I always want to check that stuff first.
As I pointed out above, no one is saying it can't happen or doesn't happen. What is being said is it's a rarity and should be a rarity that one gets a penalty. Barring issues outside of anyone's control like internet drop, folks should have a decent enough setup and basic knowledge to deal 1% of the damage for the entire run. With the current rewards from story episodes alone one can come out with a full set of mk xii very rare purple gear for their ground set and space alike. If it does turn out to be a build related something, it's easy enough to correct and let one get their foot in the door.
I've seen alot of posts about afk penalties and even talked with a good number of folks who have eaten the penalty. Only twice have I ever seen it be because of a bug. The other times it was a legitimate afk penalty. However we were able to rejig some stuff so it doesn't happen to them again, and if it does it takes an act of Q for it to happen. Everything I have now as a long time veteran player anyone else can have as well with a little time and effort.
I'm asking you what evidences you have to show it wasn't legitimate as if it is bugged, then that means I have to submit a bug report. If it is a legit penalty, then I can help you out so that doesn't happen again. I tend to be very blunt with stuff as I prefer not to sugar coat things with folks, just as I prefer them not to do with me. If it's bugged I will file a report, if it's legit then I'm willing to help you out.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Well both Vanguard Warship and the Fleet Gagarin would be mega DPS centric as well due to thier miracle worker stuff. They do a bit less dmg compared to the Jugger but are more easy to pilot.
If you ever like to make a respective build we can do so together in the academy section. There is lots of freedom as for energy types atm but especialy phaser and disruptor shine due to set and gear selections.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.