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Cryptic why can't you just exchange tokens?

I feel like a little DejaVu here. The promotion tokens from the Reputation where in Streams it was said they they would do something that you can exchange them back for marks, now with the TFO Token which just get deleted. Every person who slotted a project with 1 token or so in it will be rewarded while others who finished their projects and worked further to have these tokens towards future events will be punished? Why don't you guys just make a project under events where you can exchange old for new tokens?
C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
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  • doctorstegidoctorstegi Member Posts: 1,235 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    azrael605 wrote: »
    The projects will auto complete even if they are empty.
    That comment proofs only that you like to comment on every post here but reading it in its entirely is something you might not like to do. And please don't quote me and write back cause i will not argue with you about it.Just to humor you I was talking about the tokens not the slotted projects.


    C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
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  • doctorstegidoctorstegi Member Posts: 1,235 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    Why don't you guys just make a project under events where you can exchange old for new tokens?
    They gave you a project to turn in extra tokens for marks and dil when the events were running. You CHOSE not to slot those projects so you could horde the token and get out of doing as much next event. Why should the devs award people who tried to game the system?

    Why should Dev's reward people who slotted the project but nothing in it or just one token? Also i don't see how that is a reward if you exchange them 1 - 1 at least you did the mission for the tokens...

    C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
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  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,924 Arc User
    Why should they reward people who merely hoarded tokens without any project slotted to put them in? It makes more sense for people who were at least trying to get a project finished to be rewarded than it is for people to be rewarded for not using their tokens.

    There are many reasons why some people slotted projects but didn't finish them. RL can sometimes interfere with being able to finish slotted projects.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    The devs don't want you to collect event tokens for future use, so they're not going to reward you for having done so. They've been "expiring" the tokens from the Big Three events annually since 2015, so this should not come as a surprise to anyone.
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,924 Arc User
    In fact that's why they changed them from what they were to the ones we use now, which are only good for the year you earn them on. There is no more hoard them for future events or exchanging them.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    The devs don't want you to collect event tokens for future use, so they're not going to reward you for having done so. They've been "expiring" the tokens from the Big Three events annually since 2015, so this should not come as a surprise to anyone.

    Frankly, I wondered why it took so long for this to happen. Though it's opening up the future problem of people (including me) grinding the living TRIBBLE out of crystalline so we can bypass mirror and breach.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • wideningxgyrewideningxgyre Member Posts: 710 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    The devs don't want you to collect event tokens for future use, so they're not going to reward you for having done so.

    If they didn't want you to collect them for future use, it probably should not have been possible to do so. They changed them for summer / winter event to be event-specific.

    I'm going to reiterate a post of mine that seems to have vanished...

    In the past, if you couldn't complete a project due to unforeseen circumstances, you were often out in claiming "exclusive" event rewards. While the Phoenix boxes partially address this, it's still not account wide.

    Running events extra times and stockpiling tokens for future use is not some nefarious plot to deprive the devs or other players of anything. It's simply better time and resource management. For some people, a few extra dil or marks is much less important than having a small buffer in case something happens during the next time the event is run - illness, computer crash, family emergency, life in general.

    Also, if the extra dil or marks are relatively meaningless for space-rich players, but the tokens are valuable, it benefits the community as a whole by having more people actively entering queues which will make them pop faster.

    Finally, providing a trade-in now takes NOTHING away from other players or the game. It's a small gesture to acknowledge that a lot of people spent a lot of time playing the game and that they've changed an existing mechanic in a way that negatively impacted some players who made playing decisions based on the way the game worked at the time. If they could have traded in the tokens previously, it does nothing to anyone else to allow them to do so again, now that the tokens no longer have any use.

    I just don't get the idea that it somehow "rewards" players for bad behaviors simply because they were trying to plan for contingencies in the future, especially since that's less likely the case on event specific tokens since the total number of runs of Crystalline or Breach or Sompek is the same. Only WHEN someone did them differs. Why would it matter, even if some were trying to "game" the system, if someone ran the event 5 times on one event and 3 times the next time. Total number of runs is still 8 times.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    The devs don't want you to collect event tokens for future use, so they're not going to reward you for having done so. They've been "expiring" the tokens from the Big Three events annually since 2015, so this should not come as a surprise to anyone.

    Frankly, I wondered why it took so long for this to happen. Though it's opening up the future problem of people (including me) grinding the living TRIBBLE out of crystalline so we can bypass mirror and breach.
    Which is why I do fully expect the FTFO tokens to be changed to expire between each event as well, sooner or later.
  • doctorstegidoctorstegi Member Posts: 1,235 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    warpangel wrote: »
    The devs don't want you to collect event tokens for future use, so they're not going to reward you for having done so. They've been "expiring" the tokens from the Big Three events annually since 2015, so this should not come as a surprise to anyone.

    Yeah makes sense, cause thats why they go down to 1 universal token. Funny thing is i collected more TFO tokens cause i played all 21 days and kept 7 tokens each time so that the 3rd tfo even i got my reward at the first day. I m pretty sure if Cryptic didn't want this to happen they would have done it another way. But I'm glad you speak in behalf of the Dev's.
    C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    Why don't you guys just make a project under events where you can exchange old for new tokens?
    They gave you a project to turn in extra tokens for marks and dil when the events were running. You CHOSE not to slot those projects so you could horde the token and get out of doing as much next event. Why should the devs award people who tried to game the system?

    Why should Dev's reward people who slotted the project but nothing in it or just one token? Also i don't see how that is a reward if you exchange them 1 - 1 at least you did the mission for the tokens...

    Agreed no one should get anything. We where all gambling. The end.

    Cryptic should just delete all slotted unfinished projects and remove all unneeded tokens folks choose to not use to complete daily box missions thinking they could skip events.

    Crytpic should delete it all.

    I think its nice of them to auto complete peoples missions... but they perhaps the best solution would have been to just delete and remove all old event stuff. Nothing to cry over.
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    Oh 2 days after the end of each event they should also delete ALL stored universal TFO tokens. So no one is skipping content and intended reward cycles.
  • wideningxgyrewideningxgyre Member Posts: 710 Arc User
    husanakx wrote: »
    Oh 2 days after the end of each event they should also delete ALL stored universal TFO tokens. So no one is skipping content and intended reward cycles.

    Implicit in this comment is the desire for reward exclusivity - basically, you snooze, you lose. If someone is unable to complete an event during the event, you don't want them to get the reward. If you believe this, then you must also believe that Phoenix prizes should not include items from past events, as that would be skipping content and intended reward cycles.

    Most threads I've seen have argued vehemently against such exclusivity as it is generally viewed as damaging to longer-term health of the game and player base.

    "So no one is skipping content and intended reward cycles" - I guess I simply don't have such a negative view of other people trying to pull something on someone.

    And again, we're talking about event-specific tokens, like for Breach or Sompek. Explain why it makes such a big difference to do all runs for the reward at the same time? Does it really make such a big difference if someone does 5 runs one event, then 3 runs the next time, instead of 4 and 4?
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    husanakx wrote: »
    Oh 2 days after the end of each event they should also delete ALL stored universal TFO tokens. So no one is skipping content and intended reward cycles.

    Implicit in this comment is the desire for reward exclusivity - basically, you snooze, you lose. If someone is unable to complete an event during the event, you don't want them to get the reward. If you believe this, then you must also believe that Phoenix prizes should not include items from past events, as that would be skipping content and intended reward cycles.

    Most threads I've seen have argued vehemently against such exclusivity as it is generally viewed as damaging to longer-term health of the game and player base.

    "So no one is skipping content and intended reward cycles" - I guess I simply don't have such a negative view of other people trying to pull something on someone.

    And again, we're talking about event-specific tokens, like for Breach or Sompek. Explain why it makes such a big difference to do all runs for the reward at the same time? Does it really make such a big difference if someone does 5 runs one event, then 3 runs the next time, instead of 4 and 4?

    Phoenix is fine why would I have an issue with Phoenix. But the event and account wide unlock are over.

    I have no problem with Crytpic using those items to exert at least some control over the value of Dilithium. In fact if people where not able to keep slotted uncompleted projects... it would make the Phoenix even more valuable long term.

    Really they should simply REMOVE all tokens. They have the tech as per the current 3000 marks for a free T6.

    Just remove all projects... automatic slot for everyone on day one of every event the "project" on completion count 1 of 14 done. At the end of the event remove it. If someone completes the event... then once per day until the event disapears reward them the one box people have been skipping to stock pile now.

    Why are we even messing around with tokens of any kind ?

    Cryptic has the tech.... no more crying in the future You miss an event you miss an event. As for Phoenix. Cryptic should sell an event completion box for a week or two right after... AND THEN add it to the very next phoenix. Why make people wait a year.. if people missed them let them get them one per character for a Dil cost.

    Considering how Phoenix has been loosing its ability to control Dill prices with each passing event... perhaps that would be a good way to spur people to burn Dil a bit more.
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    As for why it matters that people will be skipping events.

    Cryptic has a master.

    They are going to have to explain why people are skipping those 14 day Discovery content ground event missions that take 10+ min each to complete.

    If Cryptic wants people to play all their content then don't give them easy options to skip them.
  • garaks31garaks31 Member Posts: 2,845 Arc User
    i am in the camp of ,slotted missions. but then there are players with half completed slotted. do they deserve both auto completion and token rewards?

    then there are acc. with different number of captains ...
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,573 Arc User
    If Cryptic didn't want you to save 14-day Event 'Tokens' for other Events they would not have:
    --Made a Ubiquitous Event Token good for all those type Events
    --Sold them in the C-Store

    So anyone suggesting that Cryptic should just delete the TFO Commendations two days after the Event, have no sense of reality. They will NEVER throw away things that they SELL.

    A number of the Contrarians assume that everyone just collected 'Tokens' and didn't slot the Event Main Project. That may very well be just a fraction of what has occurred. It maybe that people collected more than they needed to have a cushion for the future.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    Well selling them in the store is a mistake... they should move to a counter system with no tokens. As they are doing with the free T6 after 3000.... simply start a simple 14 completions counter at the start of each event. They can add a "10 day token" to the exchange as it is now.... and convert peoples stored TFOs to them now. Then they can keep selling things as they are now.... after a specific number of days yes they should delete event projects. Give people 2-3 weeks to buy it out if they got close enough that 10 will do it.

    The stockpiling is an issue. Having people skipping content is a bad idea. Its been the status que for 10 years but it doesn't have to continue. If they want people playing the content CBS wants them pushing... they are going about it wrong.
  • wideningxgyrewideningxgyre Member Posts: 710 Arc User
    husanakx wrote: »
    Well selling them in the store is a mistake... they should move to a counter system with no tokens. As they are doing with the free T6 after 3000.... simply start a simple 14 completions counter at the start of each event. They can add a "10 day token" to the exchange as it is now.... and convert peoples stored TFOs to them now. Then they can keep selling things as they are now.... after a specific number of days yes they should delete event projects. Give people 2-3 weeks to buy it out if they got close enough that 10 will do it.

    The stockpiling is an issue. Having people skipping content is a bad idea. Its been the status que for 10 years but it doesn't have to continue. If they want people playing the content CBS wants them pushing... they are going about it wrong.

    While I may have misread the announcement, what appears to be being deleted are tokens like the Crystalline Shard, NOT the Featured TFO Commendations which are from the most recent two 3-week events.

    Obviously, stockpiling is not an issue as we can easily stockpile the Featured TFO Commendations across multiple alts, as we only need to submit 14 of them on one alt to get an account unlock reward. It is MUCH simpler to stockpile these commendations than it ever was to stockpile Crystalline Shards, Voth Operative Transmission, or Merits of Sompek since they are a universal token usable across all events vs. event specific,

    Therefore, the reasoning that stockpiling represents any real problem in the game or that players should not have been doing it in the past (based on some notion of what the "devs" did or didn't want) is flawed since the new mechanics for events simplify stockpiling.

    But, people keep insisting that stockpiling is either "bad" or that people are doing it for nefarious purposes. Who exactly does it harm and how does it harm them. Whereas, stockpiling creates and incentive for people to continue to run a queue even when they've completed the minimum for getting the reward during the current event.

    As far as I can tell, no one has articulated a specific damage or harm done to any other players or the game overall by stockpiling the event specific tokens. Similarly, no one has articulated any reason NOT to provide these folks with a trade-in option for marks or unrefined dil, merely the desire to punish these nefarious n'er-do-wells for having committed some vague crime against someone, somehow by trying to plan their future gameplay.

    I just don't see why people are so opposed to a trade-in, rather than simply deleting the fruits of hours of gameplay grinding. Does the game really benefit from punishing people for running the events a few extra times?
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,573 Arc User
    CBS doesn't care if you run 'Mirror Incursion', or 'Crystalline Cataclysm', or 'Into the Breach' or not. PWE may, but not CBS.

    Again, Cryptic are looking at the numbers. The sale of the TFO Commendation Bundle is very probably a success. People also view the Bundle as a way of getting an Ultimate Upgrade for 800 Zen instead of 1800 - 2250 Zen.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    CBS doesn't care if you run 'Mirror Incursion', or 'Crystalline Cataclysm', or 'Into the Breach' or not. PWE may, but not CBS.

    Again, Cryptic are looking at the numbers. The sale of the TFO Commendation Bundle is very probably a success. People also view the Bundle as a way of getting an Ultimate Upgrade for 800 Zen instead of 1800 - 2250 Zen.

    They do care if people are playing discovery themed events.

    Cryptic has with this change made it very easy for all of us to stock up on TFO doing crystaline 20 times a day on 20 toons... and never doing a disco themed event ever again.

    That is a mistake on their part.
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    husanakx wrote: »
    Well selling them in the store is a mistake... they should move to a counter system with no tokens. As they are doing with the free T6 after 3000.... simply start a simple 14 completions counter at the start of each event. They can add a "10 day token" to the exchange as it is now.... and convert peoples stored TFOs to them now. Then they can keep selling things as they are now.... after a specific number of days yes they should delete event projects. Give people 2-3 weeks to buy it out if they got close enough that 10 will do it.

    The stockpiling is an issue. Having people skipping content is a bad idea. Its been the status que for 10 years but it doesn't have to continue. If they want people playing the content CBS wants them pushing... they are going about it wrong.

    While I may have misread the announcement, what appears to be being deleted are tokens like the Crystalline Shard, NOT the Featured TFO Commendations which are from the most recent two 3-week events.

    Obviously, stockpiling is not an issue as we can easily stockpile the Featured TFO Commendations across multiple alts, as we only need to submit 14 of them on one alt to get an account unlock reward. It is MUCH simpler to stockpile these commendations than it ever was to stockpile Crystalline Shards, Voth Operative Transmission, or Merits of Sompek since they are a universal token usable across all events vs. event specific,

    Therefore, the reasoning that stockpiling represents any real problem in the game or that players should not have been doing it in the past (based on some notion of what the "devs" did or didn't want) is flawed since the new mechanics for events simplify stockpiling.

    But, people keep insisting that stockpiling is either "bad" or that people are doing it for nefarious purposes. Who exactly does it harm and how does it harm them. Whereas, stockpiling creates and incentive for people to continue to run a queue even when they've completed the minimum for getting the reward during the current event.

    As far as I can tell, no one has articulated a specific damage or harm done to any other players or the game overall by stockpiling the event specific tokens. Similarly, no one has articulated any reason NOT to provide these folks with a trade-in option for marks or unrefined dil, merely the desire to punish these nefarious n'er-do-wells for having committed some vague crime against someone, somehow by trying to plan their future gameplay.

    I just don't see why people are so opposed to a trade-in, rather than simply deleting the fruits of hours of gameplay grinding. Does the game really benefit from punishing people for running the events a few extra times?

    Don't get me wrong I don't really care if Cryptic pays everyone out on horded event trinkets right now. I don't care what other people get or don't get. I just don't like people thinking Cryptic OWES them... they don't they where event tokens with zero value outside of the events... and people choose to not use them as intended to skip future content.

    Which is my issue with what they are doing going forward. One event token... that can be stored and stockpiled is stupid on their part. They have content down the road they want people playing... they want to be able to have people logging in during events down the road.

    Lets assume Cryptic in a month launches a Disco event that no one likes... say a ground slug fest that takes 15 min to complete. Are you telling me you wont just burn 14 of the tokens you stored from the Crystal event. Almost everyone will which is BAD for the future of the game. Like it or not STO makes CBS little money and is viewed as advertising. If a product your supporting (with your IP or perhaps even more elaborate royalty re investments for tax purposes) you are going to want that actually doing what you want it to do.

    Their fix of "one token" to rule them all is a terrible idea going forward. Everyone sees it coming... people are going to run a ton of Crystal killing missions... and skip events on mass in the future.
  • dongemaharudongemaharu Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    I’d like to sit here and argue with you guys, but I have to go to the bank and open up a hoarder’s account.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,573 Arc User
    Well, let's see if Discovery Marks are an option in the selection box from the Crystalline Featured TFO.

    The Crystalline does not give out any Elite Marks including the current fave, the P. Stachios. People will continue to run 'Defense of Starbase 1'.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
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  • wideningxgyrewideningxgyre Member Posts: 710 Arc User
    husanakx wrote: »
    ltminns wrote: »
    CBS doesn't care if you run 'Mirror Incursion', or 'Crystalline Cataclysm', or 'Into the Breach' or not. PWE may, but not CBS.

    Again, Cryptic are looking at the numbers. The sale of the TFO Commendation Bundle is very probably a success. People also view the Bundle as a way of getting an Ultimate Upgrade for 800 Zen instead of 1800 - 2250 Zen.

    They do care if people are playing discovery themed events.

    Cryptic has with this change made it very easy for all of us to stock up on TFO doing crystaline 20 times a day on 20 toons... and never doing a disco themed event ever again.

    That is a mistake on their part.

    The topic of this thread was:"CRYPTIC WHY CAN'T YOU JUST EXCHANGE TOKENS?"
    ---The primary opposing argument was that people should not be rewarded for having stockpiled these now-obsolete and worthless event tokens.

    Then: devs didn't intend for people to stockpile. They are supposed to play events as they occur.
    ---However, the new mechanic makes it MUCH easier to stockpile

    No one has actually shown that people who stockpile do NOT play events. Frankly, having a stockpile of these tokens supports that opposite theory - these people are much more inclined to play events substantially more than the minimum necessary simply for the reward.

    Now, for people who've shown a predisposition to grinding events, will simply deleting the fruits of their many, many hours of labor make them happy or more inclined to play the game? Or will it make them less incline to play the game. Will they be more inclined to grind in the future or less inclined given the waste.

    If the point of events is to get and keep players engaged, are upset players who feel they've wasted hours of time going to be more or less engaged?

    Back to the original point of the thread: would it really be so bad to offer a goodwill gesture and let folks trade them in for something like marks (even if they wanted to exclude Disco marks) or unrefined dil?

  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    If Cryptic didn't want you to save 14-day Event 'Tokens' for other Events they would not have:
    --Made a Ubiquitous Event Token good for all those type Events
    --Sold them in the C-Store

    So anyone suggesting that Cryptic should just delete the TFO Commendations two days after the Event, have no sense of reality. They will NEVER throw away things that they SELL.
    They throw away tokens that they sell after every summer/winter/anniversary event.
  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,336 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    ltminns wrote: »
    If Cryptic didn't want you to save 14-day Event 'Tokens' for other Events they would not have:
    --Made a Ubiquitous Event Token good for all those type Events
    --Sold them in the C-Store

    So anyone suggesting that Cryptic should just delete the TFO Commendations two days after the Event, have no sense of reality. They will NEVER throw away things that they SELL.
    They throw away tokens that they sell after every summer/winter/anniversary event.

    Now this is only partially true.

    The vouchers as you describe are in the Lobi store, and do go away after the event ends. However, they do not delete the tokens from your inventory if you still have them. You just won't have any use for them after the bonus project period is over.

    As far as your comment from above about them not wanting people to use tokens between TFO run periods, let me remind you of something.

    As of Thursday's patch, TFO commendations will be the standard currency used across any of the 3 week events, so it would be stupid for them to set them to expire. The only reason why they are expiring the TFO currencies from the previous runs is because they decided to make the TFO commendation the main currency, since with the other 3, we had 4, but only one was being used.

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