How to maximise the 5/3 layout of bigger, slower ships?

alfred399

Hey all,

So just picked up the Gagarin and enjoying it so far. But, it's got me thinking how best to take advantage of slower turning ships with a 5/3 weapons layout? Dual cannons & turrets struggle due to the slow turn rate, Dual beams and omnis/turrets could work I guess - but I like using reputation weapon sets for the DMG boost, and none (other than Nukara) have DBB's as an option. Or do people just stick 8 arrays and not worry about the 5th front weapon?

Any thoughts welcome

markhawkman

Use the Neutronium[Turn] from your fleet dil mine.

seaofsorrows

The engines from the Prevailing Regalia set are a huge help with this.

I prefer the Fortified version, they give you a massive boost to speed and turn rate anytime you activate a shield or hull heal. These are nice because you can control when you get the boost and you can just pop a science team or hazard emitters when you find you need to spin your ship around really fast.

peterconnorfirst

While I can’t add anything new as Napalm and Sea already covered the EPtE1 & the competitive engine I can only underline the massive impact they have on ships with a slow turn. It is like day and night and there isn't anything more needed. Pehaps the con doff from phoenix pack which can CD your evasive maneuver when using EPtE making it available much more often.

Those three elements saw to it that I gave the Juggernaut a second chance before sorting it out too prematurely. Glad that I did.

Also cool new signature Sea. That ship suits you well.

alfred399

Thanks everyone - lot of useful tips there

redrum1

go with a turret build. Only use a single cannon if it boasts damage as part of a set. That way no matter the angle, your turrets are all hitting the target. speed and turn doesn't hinder you and on the front arc attacks the singles can also goto work. get your turrets to epic. run traits that boast cannon damage and damage overall. That way you don't have to puild for speed and you can build for damage and survival.

pottsey5g

If you want something different a x5 wide arc torpedo boat with x3 mines. Although getting access to all the wide arc torpedoes and missiles can be tricky its a fun build to play.

seaofsorrows

redrum1#7546 wrote: »

go with a turret build. Only use a single cannon if it boasts damage as part of a set. That way no matter the angle, your turrets are all hitting the target. speed and turn doesn't hinder you and on the front arc attacks the singles can also goto work. get your turrets to epic. run traits that boast cannon damage and damage overall. That way you don't have to puild for speed and you can build for damage and survival.

This is a fun idea, I have been known to fly the occaisioinal turret build.

As long as you're not trying to achieve any serious damage goal, it can be a fun option and it looks pretty cool with all those turrets firing constant scatter volleys.

The problem with this is that the OP wanted to maximize the 5/3 load out and a Turret Build in no way accomplishes this goal. First, it doesn't maximize anything because of it's low damage output, and it makes the 5/3 layout irrelevant since a turret build is exactly the same on a 5/3, 4/4 or 3/5 layout.

I am not saying don't do it, just take it for what it is. A fun build that is effective for normal content, marginally effective for advanced and incapable of Elite content.

redrum1

seaofsorrows wrote: »

redrum1#7546 wrote: »

go with a turret build. Only use a single cannon if it boasts damage as part of a set. That way no matter the angle, your turrets are all hitting the target. speed and turn doesn't hinder you and on the front arc attacks the singles can also goto work. get your turrets to epic. run traits that boast cannon damage and damage overall. That way you don't have to puild for speed and you can build for damage and survival.

This is a fun idea, I have been known to fly the occaisioinal turret build.

As long as you're not trying to achieve any serious damage goal, it can be a fun option and it looks pretty cool with all those turrets firing constant scatter volleys.

The problem with this is that the OP wanted to maximize the 5/3 load out and a Turret Build in no way accomplishes this goal. First, it doesn't maximize anything because of it's low damage output, and it makes the 5/3 layout irrelevant since a turret build is exactly the same on a 5/3, 4/4 or 3/5 layout.

I am not saying don't do it, just take it for what it is. A fun build that is effective for normal content, marginally effective for advanced and incapable of Elite content.

It certainly can do big damage. Its constant damage. I have a pvp turrent build that kills verteran players . Now it wont vape them out but nit will constantly hit them and kill them eventually. If you can get your utrrets to hit for 1200 damage, then that's potentially 8 weapons that don't need a arc to fire on........no angle is safe. as if he has a slow ship trying to do damage with DHC is gonna be a challenge if he he has to put so much into turning..it takes away from damage. I just got one of those styx dreads...I put 2 singles on it just for set bonus to boast damage. the other weapons are all turrets, all epic. Now one turret has the rapid proc on it which is a free rapid fire for all cannons on the ship. I also run pref tart, pedal to medal, promis of fero, weapon cycle and I believe zahl on pvp. What that allows me to do is dogfight with a dreadnaught. Where the enemy has to have me in arc, I just need to stay within 10 km. once the alpha, omega, dpr, tact team and domino go off, the damage is stupid. those buffs put your turrets at almost dual cannon levels in damage. Not saying its the best build but it def does damage and easy to fly.

seaofsorrows

redrum1#7546 wrote: »

seaofsorrows wrote: »

redrum1#7546 wrote: »

go with a turret build. Only use a single cannon if it boasts damage as part of a set. That way no matter the angle, your turrets are all hitting the target. speed and turn doesn't hinder you and on the front arc attacks the singles can also goto work. get your turrets to epic. run traits that boast cannon damage and damage overall. That way you don't have to puild for speed and you can build for damage and survival.

This is a fun idea, I have been known to fly the occaisioinal turret build.

As long as you're not trying to achieve any serious damage goal, it can be a fun option and it looks pretty cool with all those turrets firing constant scatter volleys.

The problem with this is that the OP wanted to maximize the 5/3 load out and a Turret Build in no way accomplishes this goal. First, it doesn't maximize anything because of it's low damage output, and it makes the 5/3 layout irrelevant since a turret build is exactly the same on a 5/3, 4/4 or 3/5 layout.

I am not saying don't do it, just take it for what it is. A fun build that is effective for normal content, marginally effective for advanced and incapable of Elite content.

It certainly can do big damage. Its constant damage. I have a pvp turrent build that kills verteran players . Now it wont vape them out but nit will constantly hit them and kill them eventually. If you can get your utrrets to hit for 1200 damage, then that's potentially 8 weapons that don't need a arc to fire on........no angle is safe. as if he has a slow ship trying to do damage with DHC is gonna be a challenge if he he has to put so much into turning..it takes away from damage. I just got one of those styx dreads...I put 2 singles on it just for set bonus to boast damage. the other weapons are all turrets, all epic. Now one turret has the rapid proc on it which is a free rapid fire for all cannons on the ship. I also run pref tart, pedal to medal, promis of fero, weapon cycle and I believe zahl on pvp. What that allows me to do is dogfight with a dreadnaught. Where the enemy has to have me in arc, I just need to stay within 10 km. once the alpha, omega, dpr, tact team and domino go off, the damage is stupid. those buffs put your turrets at almost dual cannon levels in damage. Not saying its the best build but it def does damage and easy to fly.

I know nothing about PvP at all, so I will take your word on all that.

I am speaking from a pure PVE stand point, and in PVE, you can stack traits however you like and upgrade as much as you want, but a Turret Build will never be much more then something you run for fun because you want to. Is it viable? Sure.. is it fun.. heck yes. Is it optimal?.. not even close.

Again though, the original post is asking for a way to "maximize a 5/3 loadout." A turret boat does not maximize a 5/3 load out, a Turret Build is exactly the same on a 5/3, 4/4, or even a 3/5 layout. It also doesn't "maximize" anything because of it's comparatively low DPS. Again, to be clear, I am not saying that a turret build cannot do damage, I run one.. I clear maps with it and it definitely does consistent and steady damage. "Good Damage" though is subjective.. I am using comparable Beam and DC/DHC builds as a comparison and while the Turret Build is fun, from a DPS stand point in PVE content it's definitely at the bottom of the ranking for damage potential.

The Gagarin is an easy ship to turn into a nimble cruiser, with just a few build tricks like the one listed in this thread it's a very easy ship to hold on target. Currently, it's my highest DPS ship using Dual Cannons.. the Gagarin is an absolute monster for damage using Cannons. If someone wants to maximize this ship in a PVE setting, then Cannons are the one and only option. Nothing else is even close.

casualsto

Competitive engines (Tac, Engi or Sci, based on what you want to trigger your speed and turn boost).

Don't stack Speed and Engine power or mess up with your throttle bar, since the ship has amazing inertia rating, besides of its low base turn.

Seating the LVL 15 Cannons RnD Deft Cannoneer trait would totally help.

Get a Wide Arc Dual Heavy Cannon, regardless if you wanna use DHC, DC or cannons. It will hit in a 90^ degree angle even when you don't have CSV on. With CSV on, your DC/DHC will spray shots in a 90^ angle (every dual cannon/dual heavy cannon gains a [arc] mod for the duration of CSV weapon buff.)

Remember that holding your nose on the target for 80% of the time is better than flanking it for 35% of the time.

redrum1

coldnapalm wrote: »

redrum1#7546 wrote: »

seaofsorrows wrote: »

redrum1#7546 wrote: »

go with a turret build. Only use a single cannon if it boasts damage as part of a set. That way no matter the angle, your turrets are all hitting the target. speed and turn doesn't hinder you and on the front arc attacks the singles can also goto work. get your turrets to epic. run traits that boast cannon damage and damage overall. That way you don't have to puild for speed and you can build for damage and survival.

This is a fun idea, I have been known to fly the occaisioinal turret build.

As long as you're not trying to achieve any serious damage goal, it can be a fun option and it looks pretty cool with all those turrets firing constant scatter volleys.

The problem with this is that the OP wanted to maximize the 5/3 load out and a Turret Build in no way accomplishes this goal. First, it doesn't maximize anything because of it's low damage output, and it makes the 5/3 layout irrelevant since a turret build is exactly the same on a 5/3, 4/4 or 3/5 layout.

I am not saying don't do it, just take it for what it is. A fun build that is effective for normal content, marginally effective for advanced and incapable of Elite content.

It certainly can do big damage. Its constant damage. I have a pvp turrent build that kills verteran players . Now it wont vape them out but nit will constantly hit them and kill them eventually. If you can get your utrrets to hit for 1200 damage, then that's potentially 8 weapons that don't need a arc to fire on........no angle is safe. as if he has a slow ship trying to do damage with DHC is gonna be a challenge if he he has to put so much into turning..it takes away from damage. I just got one of those styx dreads...I put 2 singles on it just for set bonus to boast damage. the other weapons are all turrets, all epic. Now one turret has the rapid proc on it which is a free rapid fire for all cannons on the ship. I also run pref tart, pedal to medal, promis of fero, weapon cycle and I believe zahl on pvp. What that allows me to do is dogfight with a dreadnaught. Where the enemy has to have me in arc, I just need to stay within 10 km. once the alpha, omega, dpr, tact team and domino go off, the damage is stupid. those buffs put your turrets at almost dual cannon levels in damage. Not saying its the best build but it def does damage and easy to fly.

If your turret DPS is doing the DPS of dual cannons...then the person you are comparing yourself to has no frakking idea what they are doing. I'm sorry...but saying the build is a good idea because you can do as well as somebody making a terrible build doesn't quite work. 1200 damage per shot is nothing. And if you are killing "vet" PvP players with that build...I also call BS. On a build you admit is offensive focused with only the zahl trait...on a slow moving, slow turning, low defense ship...yeah you should last exactly 10 seconds. 1 for your zhal trait to kick in, 8 seconds of invul and 1 more second for blowing up. Is it a viable ship for PvE...yes. Did the OP ask how to spend all his resources to get an okay for PvE ship or did he ask for how to MAXIMIZE his ship?

Its a cheap build for a bigger ship. I'm not saying its the best by any means but its def doable for damage. The only reason why I prob don't kill more people with it is because its a slower bigger ship and they run away lol. Usually with constant damage they get whittled to dust if they don't run they will die. But of course DHC cannons are king right....but in a bigger slower ship they aren't. BUt since we are talking about pve both are viable options. Good luck with your build .