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Omni-directional weapons. Again.

I realize this has been brought up before, in various ways and at various points in the game, but I feel it needs to continue being brought up.

While I completely agree with the game mechanic that limits omnis to two of the same energy type, my contention is with the rule that excludes rep and mission sourced omnis from being equipped together. I, among others, feel that you should be able to equip two omnis of the same energy type regardless of whether or not they are rep, mission, or crafted based. The justification about power creep with two rep/mission omnis simply doesn't hold water anymore with the current cannon meta. Furthermore, it severely limits potential build variety, which in my opinion is good for the game in terms of both balance and re-playability. Given where the game is at presently, and how many times this has been brought up, I think it's time for Arc/Cryptic to seriously reconsider relaxing this limitation.

Comments

  • seriousdaveseriousdave Member Posts: 2,777 Arc User
    Yeah, the limitation has become ridiculous by now.
    Best example would be among the phaser sets. Using both the trilithium enhanced phaser turret (beyond the nexus) and the inhibitng phaser turret (T6 gamma rep) works perfectly fine and lets you complete both their sets.
    Opting for the beam counterparts screws you over though since you can only use one of the two omni beams.

    This is basically crippling beam builds in favour of cannons.
  • mournblade#1863 mournblade Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    Polaron ordnance sets are crippled by this too. Chronometric Polaron, Advanced Inhibiting Polaron, and Morphogenic omnis cannot be equipped together (and by that I mean, any two of those three). And yet as you pointed out, there are no such restrictions placed on ordnance set turrets that fall into the cannon family. With the nerf to FoW accuracy, and the improvements to power management for cannons, there simply is zero justification for restricting omnis beyond two of the same energy type.
  • fred26291#2759 fred26291 Member Posts: 1,064 Arc User
    It is about time that you can relax this, Reason being, the Klingon and the federation both can equip 2 omnis, one from the mission and another from the r&d. The Romulans only have 1. the only other option is the kinetic beam, but then that still only means 2 for the romulans and 3 for everyone else? Would be much better if this limitation is some day reconsidered.
  • mournblade#1863 mournblade Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    edited January 2019
    tomilak wrote: »
    It is about time that you can relax this, Reason being, the Klingon and the federation both can equip 2 omnis, one from the mission and another from the r&d. The Romulans only have 1. the only other option is the kinetic beam, but then that still only means 2 for the romulans and 3 for everyone else? Would be much better if this limitation is some day reconsidered.

    That's the current system. You can equip one rep -or- mission omni + one crafted, max two of the same energy type. The kinetic cutting beam doesn't count toward any other energy type, which is why you can equip it if you already have two omnis of the same energy type. What's being proposed here is to allow two of the same energy type regardless of whether or not it's rep, mission, or crafted. This would allow more flexibility in builds, such as being able to equip both the Chronometric omni with the Morphogenic, and give beam builds a small but much needed boost in the current meta.
  • tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,471 Arc User
    tomilak wrote: »
    It is about time that you can relax this, Reason being, the Klingon and the federation both can equip 2 omnis, one from the mission and another from the r&d. The Romulans only have 1. the only other option is the kinetic beam, but then that still only means 2 for the romulans and 3 for everyone else? Would be much better if this limitation is some day reconsidered.

    That's the current system. You can equip one rep -or- mission omni + one crafted, max two of the same energy type. The kinetic cutting beam doesn't count toward any other energy type, which is why you can equip it if you already have two omnis of the same energy type. What's being proposed here is to allow two of the same energy type regardless of whether or not it's rep, mission, or crafted. This would allow more flexibility in builds, such as being able to equip both the Chronometric omni with the Morphogenic, and give beam builds a small but much needed boost in the current meta.

    The Energy type doesn't matter for the limitation. A crafted AP omni will block a crafted or lockbox Phaser omni, and the Ancient Obelisk and Trilithium-Enhanced mission omnis block each other too. You'd be seeing a lot more rainbow builds if it wasn't limited across energy types.
  • mournblade#1863 mournblade Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    tom61sto wrote: »
    The Energy type doesn't matter for the limitation. A crafted AP omni will block a crafted or lockbox Phaser omni, and the Ancient Obelisk and Trilithium-Enhanced mission omnis block each other too. You'd be seeing a lot more rainbow builds if it wasn't limited across energy types.

    I hadn't realized that since I've never tried to equip a crafted omni of two different energy types, or two crafted omnis of the same energy type for that matter. But to the larger point, limiting omnis to two of the same energy type is a limitation I support, otherwise you'd start to see ships with nothing but omnis on them. Arc just needs to let us equip any two regardless of their source (i.e. rep, mission, crafted).
  • mournblade#1863 mournblade Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    I was gone for a year on a military deployment, but wanted to revisit this post because it continues to be a source of frustration for players attempting to make beam builds that are competitive with the cannon meta (in both PvE and PvP).

    Again, all that I'm asking for here is to allow two omnis to be equipped on a ship regardless of source. Nothing more, nothing less. Cryptic/Arc, I know you guys are busy developing the next new cool thing for us, but please consider this?
  • borg0vermindborg0vermind Member Posts: 489 Arc User
    To be fair for Cruiser builds, 4 omnis should be allowed. Many still see firing side-ways due to using standard beam banks in the back as strange.
  • mournblade#1863 mournblade Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    To be fair for Cruiser builds, 4 omnis should be allowed. Many still see firing side-ways due to using standard beam banks in the back as strange.

    I know they (Cryptic) don't want us to equip nothing but omnis on a ship. But acknowledging that, I don't see why a compromise here wouldn't be possible. The most common weapon configuration on ships is 4/3. If they allowed 3 omnis regardless of source (rep, mission, crafted/lockbox) I don't believe that would result in any imbalance to the game, and it certainly would make beams more competitive with cannons. Again, the old justification about power creep is a moot argument at this point.

    However, I'd be happy if they just allowed two of any source. Such as the Gamma rep omni and the Morphogenic mission omni (which currently can't be equipped together). That alone would be a big improvement.
  • mournblade#1863 mournblade Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    I have to ask, given how long ago this suggestion was posted, and some other really good feedback I've seen from other players on these forums...has a single piece of player feedback or QoL suggestion actually been actioned and made it into the game? Or am I just wasting my time here?
  • borg0vermindborg0vermind Member Posts: 489 Arc User
    To be fair for Cruiser builds, 4 omnis should be allowed. Many still see firing side-ways due to using standard beam banks in the back as strange.

    I know they (Cryptic) don't want us to equip nothing but omnis on a ship. But acknowledging that, I don't see why a compromise here wouldn't be possible. The most common weapon configuration on ships is 4/3. If they allowed 3 omnis regardless of source (rep, mission, crafted/lockbox) I don't believe that would result in any imbalance to the game, and it certainly would make beams more competitive with cannons. Again, the old justification about power creep is a moot argument at this point.

    However, I'd be happy if they just allowed two of any source. Such as the Gamma rep omni and the Morphogenic mission omni (which currently can't be equipped together). That alone would be a big improvement.

    You can use 3 omnis and it works great for 4-3 and 5-3 ships.
    2 Uniques of each dmg type and the 3rd you can put the cutting beam.

  • mournblade#1863 mournblade Member Posts: 74 Arc User

    You can use 3 omnis and it works great for 4-3 and 5-3 ships.
    2 Uniques of each dmg type and the 3rd you can put the cutting beam.

    Sure, but what you can't do is equip two omnis if one is reputation based and one is mission based. Again, the Gamma rep Polaron omni and the Morphogenic Polaron mission omni are a good example of this. There are many other examples of this for Phaser and Disruptor builds. This restriction limits builds, since you can't combine multiple ordnance sets. The original justification for this was to throttle down power creep, but in the current cannon meta, that's no longer a valid argument for beam builds.

    It's worth mentioning that no other weapon type suffers this restriction. I can have heavy dual cannons or beam arrays (of the same energy type) from reputation and mission ordnance sets equipped on the same ship, for instance.

    As for the Kinetic Cutting Beam, on a TAC build, it's a significant loss of DPS if you aren't stacking the same energy type. And in the case of the cutting beam specifically, it's also 75% less effective against shields. If I was only doing Normal TFOs, it wouldn't really matter too much. But I typically only do Advanced TFOs when I queue up solo, and my fleet runs Elite TFOs, where enemy shields are formidable, and every ounce of DPS counts.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User

    As for the Kinetic Cutting Beam, on a TAC build, it's a significant loss of DPS if you aren't stacking the same energy type. And in the case of the cutting beam specifically, it's also 75% less effective against shields. If I was only doing Normal TFOs, it wouldn't really matter too much. But I typically only do Advanced TFOs when I queue up solo, and my fleet runs Elite TFOs, where enemy shields are formidable, and every ounce of DPS counts.

    Correct, the KCB is an absolutely awful weapon that should never be used unless you have absolutely no other choice.

    It's terrible.
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  • borg0vermindborg0vermind Member Posts: 489 Arc User

    You can use 3 omnis and it works great for 4-3 and 5-3 ships.
    2 Uniques of each dmg type and the 3rd you can put the cutting beam.

    Sure, but what you can't do is equip two omnis if one is reputation based and one is mission based. Again, the Gamma rep Polaron omni and the Morphogenic Polaron mission omni are a good example of this.
    Indeed, I struggled with the Polaron choice myself.

  • aspartan1aspartan1 Member Posts: 1,053 Arc User
    I'm all for removal of the restriction as well. I'm a cannon guy but I feel for the beamers. It is unfair and unnecessary.
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