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Sponsorship Token Turn In Needed
bloodyriz
Member Posts: 1,756 Arc User
With reputations now being auto-sponsored across the entire account, Those of us who had a stockpile (of sorts) of sponsorship tokens could sure use some way to turn them in, and recover at least a portion of their original marks value. I know in my case I would never have begun making the sponsorship tokens if I had known this was going to come about. But since I have a plethora of alts, I was trying to find a way to make it work better for myself in the future. Now however, I am stuck with all these tokens, at a waste of 100 marks each.
Please give us something for this DEVs. We did play the content to earn the marks to begin with.
Please give us something for this DEVs. We did play the content to earn the marks to begin with.
We come in peace, SHOOT TO KILL!
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On balance I consider this just "would be nice" not something to get worked up over.
I just had a couple off hand and it took a single TFO each to make them. That's not a huge loss if ultimately there's no turn in and Cryptic can probably poll the game to see exactly how many tokens are out there.
There's a lot of stuff that could use dev time right now (ex. Foundry, the poor sick puppy of STO. Send hugs to Foundry) and this might be one of those things that probably has higher opportunity costs (something else isn't getting done while a dev fiddles with a turn-in storefront) than it would benefit.
Either because they could (stockpiling for new characters can be cathartic to some, there's a sense of constructive preparation) or because a turn in would offer a means of transferring marks between characters. So, they horde up by grinding TFO's and zones prior to AoD, thus saving them the effort of playing the exact same content from a new character perspective after AoD for a net gain of...um...
(Never mind that endeavor rep boxes could have also been saved up without that direct trade-off)
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I always had a stockpile of 4 of each for alts. I would occasionally make 4 disposable alts to run up through content and reputations, then reap the rewards of tier 5 reputation and use that for whatever for the account. Those 4 alts would then make a token for whenever I did the next set like that and be deleted. It was sort of like the gaming equivalent of Amish friendship bread. I personally don't care to be compensated for them, though, and can see some reasons why they may have ultimately decided against doing so. I just junked the ones that I had in stock, and was happy about the 12 spaces that I gained in my account bank.
Me too.
That also had the advantage of not taking up inventory slots.
or a context menuitem like the old crafting mats have.
I have a few tens token lying around.
The conversion menu for the old mats only worked and was worth it because EVERYONE had them in abundance and a NEW R&D system came into play. Creating 'spare' Sponsorship tokens to 'save time' didn't actually save anytime at all, because that time to create them would still have been used. There was no point to it. The Dev's would still have to create new UI irrespective of 'how simple' they think it is.
Just cut your losses folks because you have lost nothing, and because you were going to use them regardless to get the discount which is now automatic.
>
> You also have no frakking clue how much dev time it would take.
This. Very much. One of the most annoying things as a developer is to have someone who has no clue rock up and shout 'This is easy!'
Why would you make a stockpile of these? Make them as needed and you wouldn't have had this problem.
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Endeavor reputation mark boxes are also account bound. Furthermore, the amount of work done on one character could also be replicated on another character. There is no added value in the transfer. In the worst case, all the turn-in would do is allow someone to have done their rep grinding for AoD before AoD for the sole benefit of having more free time now and less then.
Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but that's the situation some folks are in. Leemwatson makes a good point that the auto-sponsorship effectively counteracts the costs at the rate of Characters*Reps until the end of STO. Even if someone saved thousands upon thousands of marks, they're probably still up on this situation if they continue playing the game. For the rest who might only have one or two tokens lying around, the matter is a trivial one. Granted, they would have had more marks if they simply didn't decide to hoard sponsorship tokens; but you know what they say about upcoming content... (ie. ideas can change in development and one should never bet the farm on a particular item coming to STO without appreciating that there's an element of risk to that gamble. This would be a teachable moment for folks.)
Anyway, Cryptic will have data, and can make dev decisions according to the frequency of mega hoarders and the amount of marks in question. If it needs to happen, then they'll probably get to it eventually. But if there's really not much at stake here then they'll spend time on other things.
Last missions:
Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
Transcendence, Part 4
Memorial Tour
For the latest Tardigrades and other creative output: @Gorgonops_SSF
Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
The project has been removed and only existing tokens are around.
Last missions:
Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
Transcendence, Part 4
Memorial Tour
For the latest Tardigrades and other creative output: @Gorgonops_SSF
Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
I've only got two sponsorship tokens (thought I'd need them soon, then the new system was announced), and a chance to swap them for 200 marks would be welcome. Plus it'd free up space in my account bank, which is the one they gave away a couple years back in the Anniversary Event so it's got like twelve slots.
I do believe that title is now granted upon hitting T5 in any Rep.
This is all I am hoping for to be honest. I know I screwed up back then doing these up, just hoping to recover some of the marks.
We come in peace, SHOOT TO KILL!
But, I can also see why so many think it can be a waste of time to be done. They either didn't bother to make a stockpile, or it just doesn't affect/bother them personally.
From my perspective, I see it this way: It might take a lot to convert them back into marks. However, I can't see that by at least adding a value to them, and letting them be sold for an appropriate amount of EC would set back future content for decades. Maybe from a few hours to a few days, depending on testing to make sure there are no bugs. So, I think that would be a decent middle ground. You might not get marks, but if there were a decent amount of EC, you at least got something for it, and it was not a total loss.
Razar.
That's a good suggestion. EC is already transferable between characters so this doesn't create a new exploit like marks-shifting does.
With the various agent programs its already possible to complete t5 for a good number of the reps without doing much of their related content. How many folk with a gamma agent took alts anywhere near the waiting zone because the rewards were so poorly or lazily thought out?
Its another half done system change that will probably never get finished for a year or two.
Personally, I'd much rather have the devs spend those few hours (taking armchair game dev assessments completely at face value for the moment) on literally anything else. Just about any bug fix, QoL tweak, or UI update I can imagine would have a greater population wide benefit than helping folks recoup their losses to a degree on a one-time gamble regarding active feature development (ie. literally banking on there being a turn-in based on prospective comments on Ten Forward) and pull the sting out of the teachable moment that represents (recognize what you're getting into in future and if you're wagering more than you're comfortable losing, don't make that bet.)
Last missions:
Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
Transcendence, Part 4
Memorial Tour
For the latest Tardigrades and other creative output: @Gorgonops_SSF
Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
Sorry, but I have no idea what you are talking about when you refer to "...prospective comments on Ten Forward". I was speaking as a returning player, that had no knowledge before coming back that those tokens were going away. The only reason I came back to begin with is another game I was playing started pushing P2W so bad, that they have about half the player base they used to just 2 months ago.
Since I never really had an "alt" but played all of my characters, I was not always on the same toon all the time. There was one that I started playing the game on first, so that toon had about all of the reps leveled all the way to T5. When the token came out, I started making them to put on other characters. I also went ahead and made ones for characters I hadn't made at the time. Those were put into my account storage, and pulled out as needed.
A short bit after the upgrade system came out, and made it pointless to not have a main, I left the game for a while. When I came back, I found out that a feature of the game was removed, but the parts we were able to spend in-game resources remained. There was no "one-time gamble" being done.
I am not saying they NEED to do this, or that if it isn't done, it will break the game. I am fine if they don't. I can see the benefit to those that made a collection of them to use. And I really don't believe that doing something as simple as making these things able to be sold to a vendor for EC is going to keep a bug fix from making it out on the next patch of fixes. It is not like I am suggesting coming up with a whole new system in the game that will take long to do. The system is already there, and they have quickly made changes in the past to remove the EC value from things that players were selling to vendors for EC. So changes like these can be done fairly quickly.
Razar.
Sorry, but I still don't see the point. You, in your personal circumstance, had a supply of tokens built up to sponsor new characters. You now don't have to pay for that. You spent resources on the tokens, but auto-sponsorship has entirely offset that cost. You are in the same situation now that you would be if Cryptic didn't implement auto-sponsorship, only with more marks than you might have had if more reps have been automatically sponsored across all your characters than you had tokens stockpiled.
Sure, you made a decision that, without the benefit of prescience, cost you more marks than was strictly necessary to accomplish a given task. But...why does that merit EC in compensation? You spent marks. If Cryptic decides that a turn-in is necessary then it should be restricted to the systems that is actually at play. Just getting something because it would be nice is a sentiment you can throw at literally any minor inconvenience suffered in game. And while a little EC compensation from a vendor may not break the game or require new system development, going to that extreme for justification isn't the same as affirmative rationalization. There needs to be a mechanical reason for why auto-sponsorship tokens should be refundable, and while "they are no longer relevant" is a good start it is countered by "but you get the same service for free, for all characters, and applied without any input; saving all players [including those with stockpiles] time and marks over the long term" (ie. the situation is already mitigating for itself.)
Quite frankly, the only players who have more of a case to make are those I referenced before that took comments on Ten Forward that there probably would be some kind of sponsorship trade-in for marks as more of a promise and less a statement of intent (and subject to change.) They could try to argue that they were lead on a bit by the ease in which they gave the "yeah, probably" and that Cryptic (in making those comments) does bear some responsibility for costing these players more time and effort in trying to prepare new characters for AoD. It's a self-defeating argument that shifts responsibility for personal decisions regarding a questionable method of preparation, but it's one that could be made with some rhetorical force.
But see to that: removing a teachable moment regarding upcoming content and population statistics quite possibly finding that group highly restricted (if they exist in quantity at all.) It's a non-issue.
(And PS. I felt this was worth another reply not because there's anything really at stake either way but it represents, to me, an unusual take in dev requests hinging on logic that's best addressed directly. 1. EC isn't an appropriate form of alternative compensation for marks, they're very different systems and 2. not killing the game, taking much time, or doing anything of impact isn't the same as supporting an idea in game development. Tell me why I should cheer this, not why I shouldn't take any notice [that's a red flag.])
Last missions:
Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
Transcendence, Part 4
Memorial Tour
For the latest Tardigrades and other creative output: @Gorgonops_SSF
Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
Indeed, you'd think people would think on the marks they saved and will continue to save, rather than the Marks they spent on something they would have used anyway. It made no sense to me to stock Rep tokens, as it didn't save anytime whatsoever. There is no compensation due, as Cryptic are giving permanent savings as compensation. They are also giving people the opportunity to have permanent savings on Rep Project Items, and allowing people to accrue Fleet Ship Modules AND Respecs in T6 Rep Projects, which is costing Cryptic C-store sales on the same item! That's 12 Modules and Respecs PER character. It all adds up.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'