rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,601Community Moderator
There really was no firm established size for the TOS Connie. Its generally accepted by the fanbase to be somewhere around 295 meters.
The Kelvin Connie's supposed to be around 366, which is bigger than the accepted prime refit of 305, but still reasonable, but unfurtunately the Kelvin Connie suffers from Dramatic Scale Change Syndrome.
Another bloated Compensator Class, that's what the game needs...
Thanks to the retcon in ENT and DSC the KT Conni is smaller than the DSC version (366m vs. 442m). Hardly that bloated.
What retcon? Did they make Discovery part of the Kelvin timeline while my back was turned?
And most importantly; is the existing STO version shrunk to a more reasonable size to match?
The MSD of the Conni in ENT as well as the CGI against the NX made the Conni 433m (i.e. Drexler built it to this size and shot it accordingly). The model of the Conni in DSC is built to 442m against the Crossfield (admittedly that has no onscreen canonical size though one could be calculated from all the window shots). The retcon is that the TOS conni is apparently smaller based on a display that has an invisible scale ruler that's scanned from an old book.
The KT Conni is built at 366m by its designer and shot that size (window shots, deck cutaway) however it, like Voyager has a shuttlebay that can't fit inside itself.
So the supposedly 'bloated' Konni that fans assumed was the size of a Star Destroyer due to a single scene is actually smaller canonically than the TOS Conni thanks to ENT and DSCs retcons of the size.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Minor cosmetic changes that would honestly not do anything for gameplay to warrent making a new ship class if you ask me. Just make the cosmetic parts available by default.
I'm not asking for a new class. I want the parts in the same way both the Pilot and Series versions of the TOS Conni are available.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Minor cosmetic changes that would honestly not do anything for gameplay to warrent making a new ship class if you ask me. Just make the cosmetic parts available by default.
I'm not asking for a new class. I want the parts in the same way both the Pilot and Series versions of the TOS Conni are available.
I was referring to the Nemesis Sovereign refit. Not the Connie.
So the supposedly 'bloated' Konni that fans assumed was the size of a Star Destroyer due to a single scene is actually smaller canonically than the TOS Conni thanks to ENT and DSCs retcons of the size.
Doesn't help that some of the DVD/Blu-Ray extras actually say that she's 700+ meters either.
Another bloated Compensator Class, that's what the game needs...
Thanks to the retcon in ENT and DSC the KT Conni is smaller than the DSC version (366m vs. 442m). Hardly that bloated.
What retcon? Did they make Discovery part of the Kelvin timeline while my back was turned?
And most importantly; is the existing STO version shrunk to a more reasonable size to match?
The MSD of the Conni in ENT as well as the CGI against the NX made the Conni 433m (i.e. Drexler built it to this size and shot it accordingly). The model of the Conni in DSC is built to 442m against the Crossfield (admittedly that has no onscreen canonical size though one could be calculated from all the window shots). The retcon is that the TOS conni is apparently smaller based on a display that has an invisible scale ruler that's scanned from an old book.
The KT Conni is built at 366m by its designer and shot that size (window shots, deck cutaway) however it, like Voyager has a shuttlebay that can't fit inside itself.
So the supposedly 'bloated' Konni that fans assumed was the size of a Star Destroyer due to a single scene is actually smaller canonically than the TOS Conni thanks to ENT and DSCs retcons of the size.
That's good. Half of the reason I've always called BS on all the official sources that kept claiming it's so big is because almost all the proof goes against it, as demonstrated in the Ex Astris Scientia article on it.
I saw one in the game yesterday, doesn't look as big as it used to.
The only shuttlebay size problem I remember for Voyager way that the Delta Flyer was too big to fit through the door, not the Bay itself being too small for the ship.
That's the current issue with Star Trek in general. Owned by two different companies.
Yeah, only a 'solution' lawyers would find as a good idea.
Anyone but me thinks this 2 company 'tug-o-war' with Trek is soooooo......infantile?
And the real sad part is both companies are owned by the same guy. Like 2 kids fighting over the same toy that's technically owned by their parents.
More like a rich man, who just gorged himself on a big dinner, and threw a bone with a few scraps of meat on it, and getting a laugh watching 2 starved peasants fight over it.
Minor cosmetic changes that would honestly not do anything for gameplay to warrent making a new ship class if you ask me. Just make the cosmetic parts available by default.
I'm not asking for a new class. I want the parts in the same way both the Pilot and Series versions of the TOS Conni are available.
I was referring to the Nemesis Sovereign refit. Not the Connie.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M THINKING ANYMORE!! .
I'll try again. There's two different versions of the TNG films Sovereign Class. A close approximation of the FC/INS version is ingame. I would like the alternate pylons and hull/saucer option from the NEM version to be made available for all relevant versions of the Assault Cruiser in the same way the Polit and Series parts of the Conni are available for all relevant Cruisers.
So the supposedly 'bloated' Konni that fans assumed was the size of a Star Destroyer due to a single scene is actually smaller canonically than the TOS Conni thanks to ENT and DSCs retcons of the size.
Doesn't help that some of the DVD/Blu-Ray extras actually say that she's 700+ meters either.
They also give a 400ish m length for the Kelvin however Eaglemoss gives it a model accurate 315m.
That's good. Half of the reason I've always called BS on all the official sources that kept claiming it's so big is because almost all the proof goes against it, as demonstrated in the Ex Astris Scientia article on it.
The model seen in BEY is a new build specially built for crashing it later. If they'd intended to retcon the ship as absurdly huge this would be their change to rescale the model, however there's still a saucer window zoom and a bridge window shot that show it at the same scale as the 09/ID one.
Though the saucer is upscaled after the crash.
The only shuttlebay size problem I remember for Voyager way that the Delta Flyer was too big to fit through the door, not the Bay itself being too small for the ship.
All interior shots of the shuttlebay show enough room for the Delta Flyer and a Type 7 shuttle with ample room around them. However the doors themselves are barely wide enough for the Delta Flyer as it is (less than a metres clearance either side. For the interior to fit the Intrepid needs to be at least twice the width it is.
The Defiant was upscaled to 170m to accommodate a shuttlebay and the cavernous shuttlebay of the Conni was what caused Drexler to resize the exterior proportions for his MSD in ENT.
I saw one in the game yesterday, doesn't look as big as it used to.
At this stage I'd settle for every version of the Conni from every series, film ,and timeline to just be made roughly in the 400m range so we can mix and match fully.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Another bloated Compensator Class, that's what the game needs...
Thanks to the retcon in ENT and DSC the KT Conni is smaller than the DSC version (366m vs. 442m). Hardly that bloated.
What retcon? Did they make Discovery part of the Kelvin timeline while my back was turned?
And most importantly; is the existing STO version shrunk to a more reasonable size to match?
The MSD of the Conni in ENT as well as the CGI against the NX made the Conni 433m (i.e. Drexler built it to this size and shot it accordingly). The model of the Conni in DSC is built to 442m against the Crossfield (admittedly that has no onscreen canonical size though one could be calculated from all the window shots). The retcon is that the TOS conni is apparently smaller based on a display that has an invisible scale ruler that's scanned from an old book.
The KT Conni is built at 366m by its designer and shot that size (window shots, deck cutaway) however it, like Voyager has a shuttlebay that can't fit inside itself.
So the supposedly 'bloated' Konni that fans assumed was the size of a Star Destroyer due to a single scene is actually smaller canonically than the TOS Conni thanks to ENT and DSCs retcons of the size.
That's good. Half of the reason I've always called BS on all the official sources that kept claiming it's so big is because almost all the proof goes against it, as demonstrated in the Ex Astris Scientia article on it.
I saw one in the game yesterday, doesn't look as big as it used to.
The only shuttlebay size problem I remember for Voyager way that the Delta Flyer was too big to fit through the door, not the Bay itself being too small for the ship.
If the KT Constitution is listed at 725 meters, then that is what it is. No amount of fanwank to reconcile the huge size by using screenshot comparisons, with the Prime universe's relatively tiny version, will change that. Ex Astris Scientia isn't an official or canonical source, so whatever that site's conclusions is irrelevant.
I run a KT Constitution Class on one of my characters. The size hasn't changed. It's still around the same size range as a Sovereign.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,601Community Moderator
If the KT Constitution is listed at 725 meters, then that is what it is. No amount of fanwank to reconcile the huge size by using screenshot comparisons, with the Prime universe's relatively tiny version, will change that. Ex Astris Scientia isn't an official or canonical source, so whatever that site's conclusions is irrelevant.
Only on one DVD extras though. No other official source exists that I am aware of. There were a TON of conflicting sources on the size.
1,200 meters: On 10 September 2007, a metric size chart depicted the ship to be 1,200 meters in length (3,937 feet). This early chart was reproduced for Star Trek - The Art of the Film (p. 145).
1,524 – 914.4 meters: In October 2007, the size of the Enterprise was still very much undefined. According to Star Trek illustrator John Eaves, at that time, it was considered to be somewhere between 3,000 and 5,000 feet (914.4 to 1,524 meters). [16] [17]
914.4 meters: On 1 May 2009, a Post Magazine article entitled Star Trek Returns – which included an interview with Russell Earl, the co-VFX supervisor of Star Trek – cited the ship as being 3,000 feet in length (914.4 meters). [18]
762 meters: On 14 January 2008, an Industrial Light & Magic size chart of the Enterprise depicted the ship to be 2,500 feet (762 meters) in length. Alex Jaeger shows this chart in the Starships bonus feature on the Star Trek Blu-ray release. Before the release of the Blu-ray (on his blog), Jaeger had quoted the same figure from an unspecified early chart, adding that the size may have later been somewhat reduced. [19] Experience the Enterprise also used these dimensions: length: 2,500 feet (762 meters), saucer diameter: 1,100 feet (335.3 meters) and height: 625 feet (190.5 meters). [20] The USS Enterprise-A is also stated to be this size. [21]
725.35 meters: In November 2009, when Star Trek was released on Blu-ray, the length of the ship as 2,379.75 feet (725.35 meters) was a more prominently portrayed figure in the "Starships" bonus feature. It was also the size given in Star Trek - The Art of the Film (p. 160, Note 4). Gizmodo blog writer Jesus Diaz was the first to reveal this number, citing his source as being "David B." of Bad Robot Productions. [22] Bob Plant of Round 2 Models provided exactly the same figure, saying it was specified by the licensor of their planned model kit, who in turn had obtained it from ILM. [23] "My gosh, yes – JJ did make the ship that big. According to our (very reliable) source, the 'actual' size of the ship is 2,379.75 feet long. It’s a whopper. A 1/2500-scale kit would put the assembled model at about 11.5″ inches long, which is just right for standard size packaging." [24] In a separate interview, Plant also asked Enterprise designer Ryan Church, who said that he was unable to address the issue of the changed size (compared to that of the original series Enterprise) and that ILM or J.J. Abrams could probably better answer the question. [25].
718.4 meters: On 26 May 2009, in an article in CG Society on ILM's visual effects work for the film Star Trek, the length of the ship was stated to be 2,357 feet (718.4 meters). "One challenge was to sell the weight and scale of the ships that ranged from a 30 foot shuttle to the new Enterprise at 2,357 feet long, to the nemesis ship, the Narada, five miles long." [26]
609.6 meters: On 13 May 2009, in an interview for Studio Daily, ILM model supervisor Bruce Holcomb stated that the ship was 2,000 feet in length (609.6 meters). [27]
365.8 meters: In July 2009, in the article on Star Trek in Cinefex #118, it was noted that "the reconfigured ship was a larger vessel than previous manifestations — approximately 1,200-feet-long (365.8 meters) compared to the 947-foot ship (288.6 meters) of the original series." The statement is immediately followed by a quote from Visual Effects Art Director Alex Jaeger: "Once we got the ship built and started putting it in environments, it felt too small. The shuttle bay gave us a clear relative scale – shuttlecraft initially appeared much bigger than we had imagined – so we bumped up the Enterprise scale, which gave her a grander feel and allowed us to include more detail."
294 meters: In May 2013, a 1:500 scale model was released by Revell of the USS Enterprise. The model was 588 millimeters long. This equals to a length of 294 meters or 965 feet. [28]
If the KT Constitution is listed at 725 meters, then that is what it is. No amount of fanwank to reconcile the huge size by using screenshot comparisons, with the Prime universe's relatively tiny version, will change that. Ex Astris Scientia isn't an official or canonical source, so whatever that site's conclusions is irrelevant.
Any one can list it at whatever size they want but unless that size is written onscreen then all that counts is actual visuals of the ship from a canonical production, not a non-canonical extra feature/book/some guys guess. And like most Starfleet ships the visuals agree a modal average size (the exception would be the Defiant which doesn't settle in its entire run).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Comments
The Kelvin Connie's supposed to be around 366, which is bigger than the accepted prime refit of 305, but still reasonable, but unfurtunately the Kelvin Connie suffers from Dramatic Scale Change Syndrome.
The MSD of the Conni in ENT as well as the CGI against the NX made the Conni 433m (i.e. Drexler built it to this size and shot it accordingly). The model of the Conni in DSC is built to 442m against the Crossfield (admittedly that has no onscreen canonical size though one could be calculated from all the window shots). The retcon is that the TOS conni is apparently smaller based on a display that has an invisible scale ruler that's scanned from an old book.
The KT Conni is built at 366m by its designer and shot that size (window shots, deck cutaway) however it, like Voyager has a shuttlebay that can't fit inside itself.
So the supposedly 'bloated' Konni that fans assumed was the size of a Star Destroyer due to a single scene is actually smaller canonically than the TOS Conni thanks to ENT and DSCs retcons of the size.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I'm not asking for a new class. I want the parts in the same way both the Pilot and Series versions of the TOS Conni are available.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I was referring to the Nemesis Sovereign refit. Not the Connie.
Doesn't help that some of the DVD/Blu-Ray extras actually say that she's 700+ meters either.
That's good. Half of the reason I've always called BS on all the official sources that kept claiming it's so big is because almost all the proof goes against it, as demonstrated in the Ex Astris Scientia article on it.
I saw one in the game yesterday, doesn't look as big as it used to.
The only shuttlebay size problem I remember for Voyager way that the Delta Flyer was too big to fit through the door, not the Bay itself being too small for the ship.
And the real sad part is both companies are owned by the same guy. Like 2 kids fighting over the same toy that's technically owned by their parents.
More like a rich man, who just gorged himself on a big dinner, and threw a bone with a few scraps of meat on it, and getting a laugh watching 2 starved peasants fight over it.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M THINKING ANYMORE!!
I'll try again. There's two different versions of the TNG films Sovereign Class. A close approximation of the FC/INS version is ingame. I would like the alternate pylons and hull/saucer option from the NEM version to be made available for all relevant versions of the Assault Cruiser in the same way the Polit and Series parts of the Conni are available for all relevant Cruisers.
They also give a 400ish m length for the Kelvin however Eaglemoss gives it a model accurate 315m.
The model seen in BEY is a new build specially built for crashing it later. If they'd intended to retcon the ship as absurdly huge this would be their change to rescale the model, however there's still a saucer window zoom and a bridge window shot that show it at the same scale as the 09/ID one.
Though the saucer is upscaled after the crash.
All interior shots of the shuttlebay show enough room for the Delta Flyer and a Type 7 shuttle with ample room around them. However the doors themselves are barely wide enough for the Delta Flyer as it is (less than a metres clearance either side. For the interior to fit the Intrepid needs to be at least twice the width it is.
The Defiant was upscaled to 170m to accommodate a shuttlebay and the cavernous shuttlebay of the Conni was what caused Drexler to resize the exterior proportions for his MSD in ENT.
At this stage I'd settle for every version of the Conni from every series, film ,and timeline to just be made roughly in the 400m range so we can mix and match fully.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
If the KT Constitution is listed at 725 meters, then that is what it is. No amount of fanwank to reconcile the huge size by using screenshot comparisons, with the Prime universe's relatively tiny version, will change that. Ex Astris Scientia isn't an official or canonical source, so whatever that site's conclusions is irrelevant.
I run a KT Constitution Class on one of my characters. The size hasn't changed. It's still around the same size range as a Sovereign.
Only on one DVD extras though. No other official source exists that I am aware of. There were a TON of conflicting sources on the size.
Kelvin Connie link
Any one can list it at whatever size they want but unless that size is written onscreen then all that counts is actual visuals of the ship from a canonical production, not a non-canonical extra feature/book/some guys guess. And like most Starfleet ships the visuals agree a modal average size (the exception would be the Defiant which doesn't settle in its entire run).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!